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On "Birthers," Heed "Radio Patriot," Not Glenn Beck
WEB Commentary ^ | January 6, 2009 | Michael J. Gaynor

Posted on 01/06/2010 9:27:28 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

The logical conclusion is that there is SOMETHING on the document that Obama does not want to share with the American people. Even the Beckster should realize that!

Glenn Beck is an Obama critic, but he's not a "birther" and ridicules "birthers" as the dumbest of the dumb and even helpful to Obama. "Radio Patriot" Andrea Shea King, a "birther," knows better.

World Net Daily's Drew Zahn, "Glenn Beck on birther issue: 'Dumbest thing I've ever heard'" (January 4, 2009) (

"On the air today, popular radio host Glenn Beck mocked 'birthers' and claimed there is a concerted campaign to get those questioning Barack Obama's constitutional eligibility onto the airwaves – a strategy Beck said would actually benefit Obama.

"'There's always games being played behind the scenes at a talk radio show,' Beck said. 'Rush has always called them seminar callers. But instead of being coy with the seminar callers or with you, I'm just going to expose the game that is going on. Today there is a concerted effort on all radio stations to get birthers on the air.'

"'I have to tell you, are you working for the Barack Obama administration?' Beck scoffed. 'I mean, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.'"

It's Beck's scoffing that's dumb.

This morning on "Fox & Friends" there was a report that President Franklin Delano Roosevelt really died of a brain tumor, not a stroke, and his brain tumor was concealed for political purposes.

What strikes some (or even most) as unbelievable (or "dumb") may be true.

Beck calls radical Obamaton and ACORN 8 leader his "Rosa Parks," so his own capacity for "dumbness" is not in doubt.

Beck just proved that again this year by joining the big dog at Fox News, Bill O'Reilly, in mocking the "birthers."

I don't know where Obama was born, but I believe that "birthers" are right to respect the United States Constitution and demand proof that Obama is eligible to be President and the burden of proof on that issue belongs on Obama.

In 2008 John McCain quickly produced his birth certificate, but Obama still has not done so.

Obama's refusal to produce his birth certificate is NOT proof that he was born in Kenya, but it IS a strong sign that he's hiding SOMETHING.


"The ongoing dialogue then spun off into ridicule as Beck caricatured those who question the sitting president's eligibility with straw-man arguments reminiscent of jibes made by Obama's apologists in other news outlets.

"Beck defined birthers as people who believe Obama was born in Kenya or other foreign country, was raised as a Manchurian candidate and somehow brainwashed Hillary Clinton into not exposing his fraud. According to Beck's running joke, birthers believe someone – maybe Obama's KGB 'control' – preemptively placed Obama's birth announcement in 1961 Hawaiian newspapers with a 'roadmap' of getting an African man into office.

"As for Obama producing a long-form birth certificate to actually prove his place of birth, Beck questioned, 'Why do that when these people ["birthers"] are so discrediting themselves?'"

But, as Zahn put it: "The 'certification of live birth' posted online and widely touted as 'Obama's birth certificate' does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same 'short-form' document is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii. The true 'long-form" birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only document that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny."

Scrutiny of Obama (in sharp contrast to Sarah Palin) is something that the liberal media establishment avoided and Fox News did not do nearly well enough.

Perhaps Beck and O'Reilly mock the "birthers" because they too would be embarrassed if the true "long form" birth certificate were made public and contained any significant information that would bear on either Obama's eligibility or suitability to be President of the United States. (It was not until long after Obama was inaugurated that those two Fox News hosts focused on The New York Times killing an Obama/ACORN expose on October 21, 2008, even though I reported it on the Internet the next day.)


"The radio host further argued that by distracting the public from actionable issues, 'birthers' have become 'a dream come true' for Obama, an ideal situation akin to the fantasies of adolescent boys after Hollywood bombshells.

"'Barack Obama looks at the birthers as Megan Fox,' Beck said, referring to the star and sex symbol of the popular 'Transformers' films."

Message to Beck: As a faithful student of community organizer Saul Alinsky, Obama has followed his rules for radicals. Like a faithful Alinskyite, you too ridicule the "birthers." But ridicule is not a substitute for Obama's original birth certificate.

Zahn rightly rebutted Beck:

"'Birthers'...reflect a far greater diversity of opinion than is assumed by Beck's characterization. For example, while the term has been applied to anyone questioning Obama's eligibility to serve as president under the Constitution's 'natural born citizen' clause, many 'birthers' don't doubt Obama's Hawaiian birth, but instead take issue with his father's foreign citizenship.

"While other top radio hosts, including Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Mark Levin and Lou Dobbs, have all said unequivocally and publicly that the Obama eligibility issue is legitimate and worthy, a few – including Beck and fellow Fox TV host Bill O'Reilly – have taken the position that the issue is, in O'Reilly's words, 'bogus.' Both Beck and O'Reilly cite the contemporaneous appearance of birth announcements in two Honolulu newspapers as prima facie evidence Obama was born in Hawaii and 'birthers' are conspiracy nuts.

"However, what neither talk host realizes is that newspaper birth announcements are not placed by parents phoning their local paper with the good news that they had a child. Rather, as WND has reported based on interviews with the two Hawaii papers involved, the Obama newspaper birth announcements stemmed from information automatically sent to the papers by Hawaii's Department of Health upon the state's issuance of a 'Certification of Live Birth,' which, as WND has also reported, is considered insufficient on its own to positively document the president's birthplace.

"Many people remain unaware that a child does not even have to be born in Hawaii to receive a 'Certification of Live Birth – that's the 'short form' that provides no hospital name, delivering physician or any of the other information that traditionally appears on a legitimate birth certificate. And yet the 'short form' COLB is the one and only piece of evidence the White House has cited in defending its assertion Obama was born in Hawaii.

"Hawaiian law specifically allows 'an adult or the legal parents of a minor child' to apply to the health department and, upon unspecified proof, be given the birth document.

"The only requirement for proof cited in the law doesn't address the birth of the child either, just 'that the legal parents of such individual while living without Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.'

"Demand the truth by joining the petition campaign to make President Obama reveal his long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate!

"And since Obama's long-form birth certificate remains locked away from public view and sealed by privacy laws, no brainwashing device – such as Beck alluded to in his program – would be necessary to keep Hillary Clinton from discovering the contents of Obama's original birth certificate."

The logical conclusion is that there is SOMETHING in the document that Obama does not want to share with the American people.

Even the Beckster should realize that!

Zahn pointed out that concealment is the Obama way.


"Obama's birth papers...aren't the only piece of the sitting president's past that Obama has refused to reveal.

"As WND has reported, other documentation not yet available includes Obama's kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records."

Who really thinks there's nothing there that might reasonably influence voters if known?

Beck, who last year publicly stated that Obama is racist, now wants to challenge Obama only on his policies and actions.

Beck: "Why don't we go after the things that are provable, after the things that actually you need to stop right now? And if you want to argue, then let's argue based in fact, based on things that are provable and true. And what do you say? Do you want to argue the Constitution? Good. Let's show the number of people in Congress and in the Senate that don't even read the Constitution – can't tell you right now if healthcare is even in the Constitution. Let's talk to the scholars. Let's talk to the average Joe that understands this isn't in the Constitution. Let's argue the Constitution on the laws and the systems that they are building today. Instead of arguing the Constitution and whether or not he was born in America, why don't we argue the constitutionality of a little known thing called czars and the power that these people have?"

Message to Beck:

First, most Obama/ACORN critics can multitask!

Second, we need to expose the truth about the Obama/ACORN relationship that helps explain why Obama appointed all those "czars."

Third, Marcel Reid is an ardent Obama supporter with personal and radical political agendas and not a "Rosa Parks.

"Radio Patriot" Andrea Shea King surely is disappointed with the Beckster ridiculing "birthers."

"Radio Patriot," in "The Lamestream Media Is Chewing Towels" (December 4, 2009) (

"What toute la monde is chewing dishtowels about this morning ranges from 'Sarah’s a birther!' to 'It’s a reasonable question'. But it’s one that the mainstream media won’t — can’t — touch with a ten foot pole.

"As my show producer Dave said, they’re in quandary — “They can’t take this opportunity to smash Palin once again for fear of reporting on the birth certificate story. They’ve got the club in their hand but they can’t use it.”

"Pinch is half insane this morning. If Palin had come out and said ‘I believe in flying saucers’, they’d report that in a hot second, but they can’t touch this — you know they’re banging their heads on the edge of their desks. They can’t write this story — cannot take this opportunity to smash Palin. This birth certificate/eligibility issue is a no-fly zone.

"And they like to paint her as stupid? I’m laughing out loud. Dumb like a fox. She’s placed this issue squarely on the front page of controversy. Where it needs to be."

"Radio Patriot" related:

"Anyone who has read my blogs or tuned in to my radio program knows I’ve been asking ‘who the heck is Barack Hussein Obama‘ ever since he first appeared on the national radar screen. And here’s why:

"What we DO know about BHO:

His childhood mentor was Frank Davis Marshall, who spied on U.S. military installations in Hawaii for the Soviet Union; edited a communist newspaper; authored pronographic novels; and wrote poetry in praise of Joseph Stalin.

BHO was mentored by and is still supported by radical Muslims.

BHO promised t[r]ansparency in government, but has spent over a million dollars in legal fees hiding information that would determine his Constitutional eligibility to be President.

He is a former drug user.

BHO’s academic records are sealed from kindergarten through law school.

He was deserted in childhood by his supposed biological father.

He has produced no legitimate birth certificate which would indicate his place of birth, the attending physician, and any other pertinent information found on your or my birth certificate.

He is a president who refused to intercept or inspect a North Korean ship virtually certain to be carrying weapons of mass destruction to Burma.

A president who wants to cancel all missile defense while rogue nations are developing long-range ballistic missiles. An American president who blames the violence in Mexico on America.

A Commander in Chief who claims to have been unaware that Air Force One was taken on a terrifying, low-level 'photo-op' over Manhattan. And do we really know who was on-board that aircraft during the flyover joyride?

A president who berates American CEOs for flying in private planes at private expense on company business, but whose wife spends hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars flying to Paris for a shopping spree.

A president who promised a transparent administration but requires all questions be screened before impromptu appearances.

A man who freely admits his energy policies are designed to bankrupt the American coal industry.

A president who has presided over the loss of 14.7 + million jobs and whose energy policy will cause the loss of another million jobs.

A president whose energy policy will increase the average American utility bills by over $2,000 a year, in the middle of the Great Recession.

A man about whom liberal journalist Tom Brokaw said, 'There’s a lot about him we don’t know'… just one week before the election. "But someone knows who he is.

Someone paid for his travel expenses to Pakistan and Indonesia.

Someone engineered legal challenges to all of his election opponents for the State Senate and had them disqualified.

Someone straightened and leveled his path to the U.S. Senate when a Democrat Judge made public the child custody records of his Republican opponent.

When he was a candidate for the U.S. Senate, someone arranged for him to speak at the 2004 Democratic National Convention

Someone saw to it that all of his records were sealed, at home and abroad Someone assembled the massive organization for his run for Presidency

"Someone knows all about him. And it for sure isn’t us. "But we’re disparaged as 'Birthers' by hypocrites who 'won’t go there', yet still ask why it is we know so little about Obama; Conspiracy Freaks by those who are simply ignorant of the facts; and 'Trolls”' by self-appointed 'betters' simply for asking."

TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: beck; bho44; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; glennbeck; kenyabelieveit; obama; obamanoncitizenissue; talkradio
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To: norge

Based on the following, if your father owed allegiance to any foreign sovereignty, then no you would not be a “natural born citizen” for the purpose of determining your eligibility to run for Vice President or President of the United States.

“Bingham states: I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen… . . – John Bingham in the United States House on March 9, 1866”

51 posted on 01/06/2010 10:58:10 PM PST by WVPatriot
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To: norge

Ok...I’ll make an exception in your case ;)

52 posted on 01/06/2010 11:04:27 PM PST by Electric Graffiti (Well, we didn't get dressed up for nothin')
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To: montag813
Watch Beck’s ratings drop sharply over the next few weeks.

Will re-post at end of the month.

53 posted on 01/06/2010 11:05:13 PM PST by jla ("Free Republic is Palin Country" - JimRob)
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To: Ramius
I’ve seen the Governor of the State of Hawaii personally certify that Obama was born there.

No you have not as Lingle has never said that publicly. You are confused with DoH director Fukino who said she saw the vital records that say Obama was born in Hawaii.

However, Hawaii has accepted statements from witnesses who say they were present when a baby was born in the state of Hawaii which doctors were not present or were not in the hospital delivery system. A system that could be easily fooled if the witness is not honest.

54 posted on 01/06/2010 11:08:36 PM PST by Red Steel
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If a Russian child is born in Hawaii, is that child eligible to become president? ... Just being born in Hawaii doesn’t make one eligible according to the founders use of the term ‘natural born citizen’.

Yes, under the meaning of "natural born citizen" that child born in the U.S. would indeed be eligible to become President. These different brands of citizenship didn't exist when they made these proclaimations. Curiously enough... there wasn't yet much at that point about "citizenship" documentation. Nobody then had passports.

55 posted on 01/06/2010 11:08:52 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Ramius

Are you just going to make a direct statement like that without documenting sources to support your statement?

56 posted on 01/06/2010 11:12:31 PM PST by WVPatriot
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To: WVPatriot

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. Am I wrong in some way?

57 posted on 01/06/2010 11:16:35 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Ramius

Chief Justice Waite, in Minor v. Happersett, in 1875, stated: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens,as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.” Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875).

This decision was delivered after the 14th amendment was already in place.

58 posted on 01/06/2010 11:21:16 PM PST by WVPatriot
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To: Ramius

Justice Grey, 23 years later in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) repeated what Justice Waite said in Minor about the need to resort to common law when defining “natural born Citizen:” “In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the fourteenth amendment now in question, said: ‘The constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.’ And he proceeded to resort to the common law as an aid in the construction of this provision.” U.S. v Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898).

59 posted on 01/06/2010 11:23:57 PM PST by WVPatriot
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Lets say that Adolf Hitler was ineligible to become head of Germany because he never became a legal German citizen. In 1932 while he was running for office it would be the “Issue” if it came out. His political career would be over then and there.

By 1935 on the other hand there was plenty of other abuses to remove Hitler for such as imprisoning political opponents. By that point politically the citizenship issue would be a moot point. We are rapidly reaching the same point with Obama. He has been in a year, anything past two years and the majority of the public will say so what if he was ineligible. The courts, individual states, etc has punted the BC issue down the field. You can blame Glenn Beck or others but really the ones who should take up the issue refuse to do so (Supreme Court, State Governors, etc).

Now if in 1945 there was people who wanted Hitler arrested because of the citizenship issue of 1933 and tried because of it instead of starting WWII and killing the Jews I would deem them crazy.

60 posted on 01/06/2010 11:31:21 PM PST by Swiss (Reality don't seem real anymore)
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To: Ramius

Meet Philip Berg.........”Where’s the birth certificate?”

61 posted on 01/06/2010 11:35:05 PM PST by whatisthetruth
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To: Ramius

The phrase “natural born citizen” has been defined as a child born in the country to two citizen parents in numerous U.S. Supreme Court and lower court decisions:

)The Venus, 12U.S. 253(1814),
Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 242 (1830),
Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1856),
Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875),
Ex parte Reynolds, 20 F. Cas. 582 (C.C.W.D. Ark 1879), United States v. Ward, 42 F. 320 (1890)
Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
Ludlam, Excutrix, & c., v. Ludlam, 26 N.Y. 356 (1863) and more)

and the framers of the Civil Rights Act of 1866, the 14th Amendment, the Naturalization Act of 1795, 1798, 1802, 1885, and our modern 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1401.

62 posted on 01/06/2010 11:35:47 PM PST by WVPatriot
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To: WVPatriot
For your collection:

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the
United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship
status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan
citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

63 posted on 01/07/2010 12:02:29 AM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: WVPatriot
Charles Pinckney
Signer of the United States Constitution, Governor of South
Carolina. Senator and a member of the House of

“Therefore, we can say with confidence that a natural-born
citizen of the United States means those persons born whose
father the United States already has an established
jurisdiction over, i.e., born to father’s who are
themselves citizens of the United States.”

64 posted on 01/07/2010 12:28:19 AM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: Ramius
Just keep reading at least to post #62. I don't have time or the inclination to argue endless crap anymore. Google is your friend and you could easily read all the stuff I have that say what I say is true and you would just retort, "I know you are, but what am I?"

I'm not wrong and the case has been decided in court. If an illegal drops a baby in Brownsville, they wave the Mexican flag, and Jr. never even learns English, the son could run for congressman, but couldn't be President. POTUS and Vice POTUS cannot have parents that are not citizens. Google it. This is why we need lawyers. Sometimes we think we know stuff we don't and the courts need to sort it out. They have sorted this out already. Obama is ineligible for POTUS. Why doesn't he just show the damn BC? Because Daddy is Kenyan. He taught Constitutional Law, ....he knows,....that's why he shows the Cert of Live Birth. His sister has one of those also. She admits she was born in Indonesia. All these arguments have already been made. Allen Keyes has posted his case on the web and he covers most of the bases. He isn't able to be POTUS.

65 posted on 01/07/2010 12:47:34 AM PST by chuckles
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Like in the case of obama, lotsa folks now have beck’s number!

Semper Truth
Dick G

66 posted on 01/07/2010 4:28:23 AM PST by gunnyg (Just An Old Gunny ~ And *Still* Not A F'n Commie Basterd!)
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To: FreeperFlirt

Excellent post! Thanks for such a clearly stated explanation! It is mystifying why he has been allowed to get away with it. I can hardly believe what is going on in America today. The only thing that brings me any comfort is believing that God is in control! BHO will eventually get what he deserves - in this world or the next!

67 posted on 01/07/2010 5:07:07 AM PST by srmorton (Chose Life!)
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To: Swiss

People aren’t fighting Obama on his policies too? I didn’t know that. /s

68 posted on 01/07/2010 5:30:31 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: srmorton

thank you I hope BHO finds Gods grace as we all need it ><>

69 posted on 01/07/2010 6:09:46 AM PST by FreeperFlirt
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To: chuckles
I agree, the cover up is mind boggling.Once the cat is out of the bag all bills sign by BHO will be undo so a silver lining is hopeful~~~
70 posted on 01/07/2010 6:15:14 AM PST by FreeperFlirt
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To: dschapin

What might the phrase “natural-born citizen” of the United States imply under the U.S. Constitution? The phrase has always been obscure due to the lack of any single authoritative source to confer in order to understand the condition of citizenship the phrase recognizes. Learning what the phrase might have meant following the Declaration of Independence, and the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, requires detective work. As with all detective work, eliminating the usual suspects from the beginning goes a long way in quickly solving a case.

What Natural-Born Citizen Could Not Mean

Could a natural-born citizen simply mean citizenship due to place of birth?

Unlikely in the strict sense because we know one can be native born and yet not a native born citizen of this country. There were even disputes whether anyone born within the District of Columbia or in the territories were born citizens of the United States (they were generally referred to as “inhabitants” instead.) National Government could make no “territorial allegiance” demands within the several States because as Madison explained it, the “powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.”

Jurisdiction over citizenship via birth within the several States was part of the “ordinary course of affairs” of the States that only local laws could affect. Early acts of Naturalization recognized the individual State Legislatures as the only authority who could make anyone a citizen of a State. Framer James Wilson said, “a citizen of the United States is he, who is a citizen of at least some one state in the Union.” These citizens of each State were united together through Article IV, Sec. II of the U.S. Constitution, and thus, no act of Congress was required to make citizens of the individual States citizens of the United States.

Prior to the Revolutionary War place of birth within the dominions of the crown was the principle criterion for establishing perpetual allegiance and citizenship. After independence each State was free to establish their own maxims on the subject. James Madison’s own State of Virginia adopted a birthright law authored by Thomas Jefferson in 1779 that recognized parentage (citizenship of father) in determining citizenship of the child:

[A]ll infants, wheresoever born, whose father, if living, or otherwise, whose mother was a citizen at the time of their birth, or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise, their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother, shall be deemed citizens of this Commonwealth until they relinquish that character, in manner as hereinafter expressed; and all others not being citizens of any, of the United States of America, shall be deemed aliens.
Some States made citizenship conditional on either parent in terms of their citizenship, such as Kentucky: “[E]very child, wherever born, whose father or mother was or shall be a citizen of Kentucky at the birth of such child, shall be deemed citizens of that State.” One common law found in a number of States that defined those born as citizens read, “All persons born in this state, and resident within it, except the children of transient aliens, and of alien public ministers and consuls, etc.”

The State of Connecticut adopted a law that read, “All persons born in this State … except aliens, paupers, and fugitives from justice or service, are and shall be deemed to be citizens of this State, owing it allegiance and entitled to receive its protection, until they shall have voluntarily withdrawn from its limits and become incorporated into some other State or sovereignty as members thereof.” States that were slow in enacting laws over acquiring citizenship through birth forced courts to adjudicate citizenship disputes under common law rules.

Could a natural-born citizen perhaps be synonymous with the British term “natural-born subject”?

It is very doubtful the framers adopted the doctrine found under the old English doctrine of “natural-born subject.” The British doctrine allowed for double allegiances, something the founders considered improper and dangerous. The American naturalization process required all males to twice renounce all allegiances with other governments and pledge their allegiance to this one before finally becoming a citizen.

Framer Rufus King said allegiance to the United States depended on whether a person is a “member of the body politic.” King says no nation should adopt or naturalize a person of another society without the consent of that person. The reason? Because “he ought not silently to be embarrassed with a double allegiance.” House Report No. 784, dated June 22, 1874, stated, “The United States have not recognized a ‘double allegiance.’ By our law a citizen is bound to be ‘true and faithful’ alone to our government.”

Under the old English common law doctrine of natural-born subject, birth itself was an act of naturalization that required no prior consent or demanded allegiance to the nation in advance. Furthermore, birth was viewed as enjoining a “perpetual allegiance” upon all that could never be severed or altered by any change of time or act of anyone. England’s “perpetual allegiance” due from birth was extremely unpopular in this country; often referred to as absurd barbarism, or simply perpetual nonsense. America went to war with England over the doctrine behind “natural-born subject” in June of 1812.

Because Britain considered all who were born within the dominions of the crown to be its natural-born subjects even after becoming naturalized citizens of the United States, led to British vessels blockading American ports. Under the British blockade, every American ship entering or leaving was boarded by soldiers in search of British born subjects. At least 6,000 American citizens who were found to be British natural-born subjects were pressed into military service on behalf of the British Empire, and thus, the reason we went to war.

Fourteenth Amendment

Whatever might had been the correct understanding of “natural-born citizen” prior to 1866, the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment certainly changes the view because for the first time we have a written national rule declaring who are citizens through birth or naturalization. Who may be born citizens is conditional upon being born “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States - a condition not required under the common law. The legislative definition of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” was defined as “Not owing allegiance to anybody else.”

This national rule prevents us from interpreting natural-born citizen under common law rules because it eliminates the possibility of a child being born with more than one allegiance.

The primary author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob M. Howard, said the “word jurisdiction, as here employed, ought to be construed so as to imply a full and complete jurisdiction on the part of the United States, coextensive in all respects with the constitutional power of the United States, whether exercised by Congress, by the executive, or by the judicial department; that is to say, the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now.”

United States Attorney General, George Williams, whom was a U.S. Senator aligned with Radical Republicans during the drafting of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1866, ruled in 1873 the word “jurisdiction” under the Fourteenth Amendment “must be understood to mean absolute and complete jurisdiction, such as the United States had over its citizens before the adoption of this amendment.” He added, “Political and military rights and duties do not pertain to anyone else.”

Essentially then, “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” means the same jurisdiction the United States exercises over its own citizens, i.e., only citizens of the United States come within its operation since citizens of the United States do not owe allegiance to some other nation at the same time they do the United States. This makes a great deal of sense for the time because there was a great deal of controversy over conflicts arising from double allegiances.

Just as a person cannot be naturalized and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States while owing allegiance to another nation - neither can anyone born. Why would “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” be any different with persons born since this jurisdiction equally applies to persons born or naturalized? If allegiance simply meant location on American soil, then what was the purpose of having aliens renounce their allegiance to other countries and pledge their allegiance to this one for purposes of becoming naturalized? Perhaps because locality itself was never enough to confer allegiance and citizenship?

It is worth noting that wives and children were never naturalized separately but became naturalized through the father/husband. Because “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” requires not owing allegiance to any other nation, and because the nation does not recognize double allegiances that can be created at common law, narrows the possibilities to what “natural-born citizen” can mean.

Natural-Born Citizen Defined

One universal point most all early publicists agreed on was natural-born citizen must mean one who is a citizen by no act of law. If a person owes their citizenship to some act of law (naturalization for example), they cannot be considered a natural-born citizen. This leads us to defining natural-born citizen under the laws of nature - laws the founders recognized and embraced.

Under the laws of nature, every child born requires no act of law to establish the fact the child inherits through nature his/her father’s citizenship as well as his name (or even his property) through birth. This law of nature is also recognized by law of nations. Sen. Howard said the citizenship clause under the Fourteenth Amendment was by virtue of “natural law and national law.”

The advantages of Natural Law is competing allegiances between nations are avoided, or at least with those nations whose custom is to not make citizens of other countries citizens without their consent. Any alternations or conflicts due to a child’s natural citizenship are strictly a creature of local municipal law. In the year 1866, the United States for the first time adopted a local municipal law under Sec. 1992 of U.S. Revised Statutes that read: “All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States.”

Rep. John A. Bingham commenting on Section 1992 said it means “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

Bingham subscribed to the same view as most everyone in Congress at the time that in order to be born a citizen of the United States one must be born within the allegiance of the Nation. Bingham had explained years earlier that to be born within the allegiance of the United States the parents, or more precisely, the father, must not owe allegiance to some other foreign sovereignty (remember the U.S. abandoned England’s “natural allegiance” doctrine). This of course, explains why emphasis of not owing allegiance to anyone else was the affect of being subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

It should be noted this allegiance due under England’s common law and American law are of two different species. Under the common law one owed a personal allegiance to the King as an individual upon birth. Under the American system there was no individual ruler to owe a personal allegiance to.

The constitutional requirement for the President of the United States to be a natural-born citizen had one purpose according to St. George Tucker:

That provision in the constitution which requires that the president shall be a native-born citizen (unless he were a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted,) is a happy means of security against foreign influence, which, wherever it is capable of being exerted, is to he dreaded more than the plague. The admission of foreigners into our councils, consequently, cannot be too much guarded against; their total exclusion from a station to which foreign nations have been accustomed to, attach ideas of sovereign power, sacredness of character, and hereditary right, is a measure of the most consummate policy and wisdom. …The title of king, prince, emperor, or czar, without the smallest addition to his powers, would have rendered him a member of the fraternity of crowned heads: their common cause has more than once threatened the desolation of Europe. To have added a member to this sacred family in America, would have invited and perpetuated among us all the evils of Pandora’s Box. Charles Pinckney in 1800 said the presidential eligibility clause was designed “to insure … attachment to the country.” President Washington warned a “passionate attachment of one nation for another, produces a variety of evils,” and goes on to say:

Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest, in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation, of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained; and by exciting jealousy, ill- will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld.

And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens, (who devote themselves to the favorite nation,) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearance of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.
What better way to insure attachment to the country then to require the President to have inherited his American citizenship through his American father and not through a foreign father. Any child can be born anywhere in the country and removed by their father to be raised in his native country. The risks would be for the child to return in later life to reside in this country bringing with him foreign influences and intrigues, and thus, making such a citizen indistinguishable from a naturalized citizen.

Therefore, we can say with confidence that a natural-born citizen of the United States means those persons born whose father the United States already has an established jurisdiction over, i.e., born to father’s who are themselves citizens of the United States. A person who had been born under a double allegiance cannot be said to be a natural-born citizen of the United States because such status is not recognized (only in fiction of law). A child born to an American mother and alien father might be said to be a citizen of the United States by some affirmative act of law (if there was one) but never entitled to be a natural-born citizen because through laws of nature the child inherits the condition of their father~~~~~~~~~

71 posted on 01/07/2010 6:18:58 AM PST by FreeperFlirt
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To: Spaulding

Today, it is what it was: “...born in the country of citizen parents”. BINGO~~~~

72 posted on 01/07/2010 6:21:44 AM PST by FreeperFlirt
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To: Ramius

Ya think?

73 posted on 01/07/2010 6:31:24 AM PST by Josephat
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To: norge


74 posted on 01/07/2010 6:38:47 AM PST by Josephat
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To: norge
You're kidding, right?

Ok, not "Sharply", but I think this will slowly erode them. It doesn't pay to alienate a significant portion of your audience.

75 posted on 01/07/2010 6:52:42 AM PST by montag813
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To: Red Steel

I have not been able to determine if it is included in the duties and responsibilities of DoH director Fukino to determine/adjudicate citizenship status. This is an opinion of the person or a finding of the office?

76 posted on 01/07/2010 8:03:29 AM PST by PeteCat
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To: DJ MacWoW

Who has been one of the most effective persons alerting the public about Obama’s policies? Glenn Beck, he has gotten more personnel changes and reversals from the Obama administration than any “Birther” I know.

So who are you guys going after? Glenn Beck

Unless something major comes out that even the liberal media can’t ignore about Obama’s Birth Certificate then its over. The truth will be reported on page 67 of the New York Times about twenty years after Obama leaves office.

77 posted on 01/07/2010 8:37:05 AM PST by Swiss (Reality don't seem real anymore)
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To: chuckles

**He isn’t able to be POTUS**

Yet he is.

Has any of the researchers here can tell me have we ever removed a publicly elected office holder years after he took office because he invalidly took office?

78 posted on 01/07/2010 8:48:45 AM PST by Swiss (Reality don't seem real anymore)
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To: Swiss
Where did I go after Beck? I've never seen him. And don't care about him.

I was responding to what you posted.

79 posted on 01/07/2010 9:21:53 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: norge; Ramius
See post #27 above ... in my opinion, you are not a natural born citizen based upon what you posted. In post #27, you will see how the principle framer of the 14th Amendment defined 'natural born citizen'. The dissonance the obamanoids and their confused audience is nothing more than ignoring the actual historical data available in favor of believing what they want to be the truth but what has yet to be settled for pres and v. pres by a SCOTUS ruling.

The obamanoids have conflated so much at this point, it is nearly impossible to change the confused perspective of some. We may see that the SCOTUS--if they ever rule on the term--will, as activist judges, also ignore the historical data such as listed in post #27 above, and make up a new definition along the lines of the deceit the obamanoids are pushing. We shall perhaps see, but don't hold your breath for that one, since the criminal enterprise party is now firmly ensconced as heads of the federal oligarchy ... even judge Roberts bows to their power.

80 posted on 01/07/2010 9:24:17 AM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: Swiss
No he's not. We've only had 44 so how many should we have removed? America has only gone insane in the last 40 years anyway. The earlier generations at least still had some common sense.

You have to admit, electing Barrack Husein Obama, a guy that speaks perfect Farsi, A guy whose only verifiable paperwork says his name is really Barry Soretoro and that he is a Muslim, a guy that spoke to Muslims before he gave a formal speech to the US, a guy that apologizes for the country he represents every chance he gets, and is trying to release terrorists and bring them to New York for trial at a cost of $200 million, a guy that has Mao admirers and card carrying commies in the White House, A guy that has blown spending up 4 times the previous 200 years, well, you get the picture.

I wonder if the Bush haters would rather have a DOW 14000 and 4.5% unemployment or what we have now. Oh yeah, we've gone crazy so they defend Obama. As he dismantles the US to make it more like his dad's country, I wonder what you will think about his loyalties then?

81 posted on 01/07/2010 10:51:46 AM PST by chuckles
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You may be right, but you know, I have never once questioned my status. And to be honest, even with an ethnic name like mine (with j’s and k’s and only one vø son’s nickname is “buy a vowel”), should I have run for President (what a joke!), nobody would have raised the issue.

82 posted on 01/07/2010 7:34:25 PM PST by norge (The amiable dunce is back, wearing a skirt and high heels.)
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You may be right, but you know, I have never once questioned my status. And to be honest, even with an ethnic name like mine (with j’s and k’s and only one vø son’s nickname is “buy a vowel”), should I have run for President (what a joke!), nobody would have raised the issue.

83 posted on 01/07/2010 7:35:10 PM PST by norge (The amiable dunce is back, wearing a skirt and high heels.)
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To: imahawk
Happenstances are no coincidences, and to many coincidences are no accident.
84 posted on 01/08/2010 1:51:03 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: WVPatriot

4th. None can claim citizenship as a birth-right, but such as have been born since the declaration of independence, for this obvious reason: no man can be born a citizen of a state or government, which did not exist at the time of his birth. Citizenship is the inheritance of the children of those who have taken a part in the late revolution; but this is confined exclusively to the children of those who were themselves citizens. Those who died before the revolution, could leave no political character to their children, but that of subjects, which they themselves possessed. If they had lived, no one could be certain whether they would have adhered to the king or to congress. Their children, therefore, may claim by inheritance the rights of British subjects, but not of American citizens. —David Ramsay, Founder, 1789.

85 posted on 01/08/2010 1:21:38 PM PST by WVPatriot
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To: WVPatriot

Citizenship conferred by special grant was awarded to the Marquis de Lafayette by the General Assembly of Maryland at the session held on November 1, 1784 to January 22, 1785 at Annapolis, Maryland. It provided that “the Marquis de Lafayette and his heirs male for ever, shall be, and they and each of them are hereby deemed, adjudged, and taken to be, natural born citizens of this state, and shall henceforth be entitled to all the immunities, rights and privileges, of natural born citizens thereof.”

86 posted on 01/08/2010 1:35:49 PM PST by WVPatriot
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