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I Was Banned For Not Tipping
mike.barskey.net ^

Posted on 01/07/2010 9:51:07 AM PST by big black dog

Every Tuesday I go to Murphy's Taproom in Manchester to hang out with a bunch of liberty-oriented people. This is a famous event among Free-staters. About 40-60 people gather weekly for about 4 hours and eat and drink and are merry. I'm no longer allowed to go there, because I don't tip.

I've written some of my thoughts about tipping in the past, and have since fleshed out my position in my mind, so I won't focus here on the reasons to tip or not to tip. Here, I want to merely explain what happened tonight.

About 6 weeks ago, someone at Murphy's charged my credit card for a tip even though I did not pay one. I probably wrote a "0" (zero) on the tip line because I have done that for years, but perhaps the waiter, or whomever, hand-wrote "3.0" in front of that to look like "3.00," because they charged me a $3.00 tip. Next Tuesday I told Keith Murphy, the owner of Murphy's Taproom, and he refunded my $3.00. I did not ask to see the original receipt and he did not offer to let me see it.

Then, a few weeks later, I was again charged for a tip that I did not offer. In case you're curious, I do not tip ever, so I am positive that I did not tip in either of these instances. So tonight when I was gathering with my friends at Murphy's, I told Keith it happened again, for $4.00 this time. He said he'd look into it and refund my money if it was true (he has no reason to trust me, so I accept that he should trust the original paperwork). But then he asked me if I tipped the waitress in cash. I said "No." He asked me how I tipped the waitress. I said "I didn't. I don't tip." Keith then asked me to come with him into the back room to talk about it.

On the way back he said to me, "I've got to warn you, I was a waiter for 10 years." I'm sure this was meant to alert me to his position on the matter, which seemed to be pro-tipping, but it seems odd to think that me knowing his position would alter mine.

He asked if I received good service. I told him "The service is average here, but I can understand why: the place is a zoo. People are changing tables, moving around, it's crowded..." I was being conservative in that estimation of the quality of service: service at Murphy's is generally pretty bad (not always!) but for the aforementioned, understandable reasons.

He let me know that the waiters earned $3.00 per hour. I said, "Yeah, I learned that a month ago. That doesn't happen in California." He told me it's standard on the east coast, which I also learned about a month ago.

He asked me why I don't tip waiters that earn $3.00 per hour, and I told him "It's not my problem or choice. They chose to work for $3.00 per hour and could choose another job that paid more if they wanted to." He asked for more reasons, and I told him "I don't tip anyone" and "if I tip the waiters, why don't I tip the cook or the owner?," and possibly one or two more reasons. He said "But you do tip me [the owner], in a way. I get a small portion each time you pay." And I replied, "So do the waiters: $3.00 per hour."

To this, Keith replied, "I don't pay my waiters $3.00 per hour to give good service." I said, "Yes, you do." He said, "No, I don't." I said, "Yes, you do. You hired them at $3.00 to do what?" And he said "To wait on customers..." - and here he realized what he was saying, and added "...with the expectation of receiving the standard 15-20% tip in addition to their wages." He also told me that "tipping is a custom in this country - at least, and many others." I'm aware of this, and I'm aware of countries in which tipping is considered an insult (e.g., Japan), and I'm aware that on cruise ships, for example, that are in international waters and flying flags of convenience (i.e., they are not in any country), tipping is also customary; I did not mention any of this to Keith.

Keith then told me, "This is nothing personal against you, but if you're not going to take care of my wait staff, I don't want you in my restaurant. It's your right to not tip, but it's my right to not want you as a customer." I replied, "OK. I understand. Please refund my $4.00 and I'll leave. Can I have five minutes to say goodbye to my friends?" He allowed me five minutes.

As I was saying goodbye to my friends, Keith approached me and gave me my $4.00 and showed me the original receipt, explaining "It was an accident. The waitress though the zero you wrote on the tip line was a four, and you can see it does kind of look like a four." It did indeed look like a four. But I did not write it that way. When I write any dollar amount, ever, I write the full amount, like "$4.00" or "4.00" - never like "4" - but on the receipt, all that was written was "0" and that had a few extra lines and squiggles that made it look kind of like a "4." And the number "3" in the total amount at the bottom of the receipt had been written over as well, to make "$23.20" look like "$27.20" - I did not do that, either. I stuttered a few seconds, trying to find a polite way to tell Keith that it was not an accident, that his waitress intentionally stole my money, but I figured he was not going to un-ban me and I didn't see a point, so I just said, "OK."

I recognize that it is Keith's restaurant - his private property - and as such he has the right to choose his customers. I do not hold it against him that he banned me, or even that he disagrees with me about tipping. I am merely disappointed that I will no longer be able to go to Taproom Tuesdays. I really enjoyed that event. And there are some friends that I hardly ever see except there. Oh well, I'll have to make more of an effort to see them elsewhere.

I realize, though, that what Keith essentially did was ban me from the restaurant because he's too cheap to pay his wait staff better. That's not exactly true, because the government has a law saying that restaurant owners must pay their tip-receiving wait staff exactly $3.00 per hour - no more and no less. But Keith could make better arrangements with his employees and not hold his customers responsible for his wait staff's well-being. Keith could, for example, pay his wait staff more, but keep it under the table; or he could offer to give them, out of his own pocket, the difference between whatever his customers tip and 20% of their bill; or he could make a policy in his restaurant that tipping is not allowed, and then the law would allow him to pay them more; or he could even help his wait staff recognize that tips are not guaranteed like wages are, even as reward for good service. But he would rather pay them less of his own money and rely on his customers to follow tradition and give them more money. And his decision to do so, in this case, cost him a customer.


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: barskey; cheap; cheapskate; freestateproject; fsp; mikebarskey; mrpink; newhampshire; notacityinchina; ronpaul; shameless; subsidizedwages; tipping; waiters
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To: MayfairFly

I am not wealthy, that’s for sure. Honestly, I need to find a better field to earn more.


251 posted on 01/07/2010 12:08:37 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

i miss one of my old managers. he had a great way of dealing with people like that.

he’d walk up to the table, pick up the bill and smile politely at the table and say “we’ll be taking care of this for you. the exit is right this way, please do not come back”


252 posted on 01/07/2010 12:09:17 PM PST by absolootezer0 (2x divorced, tattooed, pierced, harley hatin, meghan mccain luvin', smoker and pit bull owner..what?)
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To: Palladin

>>I’m surprised to learn on this thread that so many FReepers are cheap bastards.<<

You get what you pay for.
I tip maids, beauty workers, the girl who grooms my pup and waitresses.

Yesterday I took the dog in for a bath and they had no hot water. They clipped her nails for free. AND called both of us by name at a Petsmart.

Like I said, you get what you pay for.


253 posted on 01/07/2010 12:09:23 PM PST by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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I always thought tipping was voluntary. Although, expected, for decent service. I always tip 10 to 15% but I refuse to tip more than 15% unless the service is just way over the top. But around here, nobody gets charged taxes on more tips than is reported and I believe the owners have to make up the diference to meet minimum wage if necessary. I can certainly understand an owner banning a guy who never tips but I imagine it was an excuse to get him out for some other reason unstated.


254 posted on 01/07/2010 12:09:34 PM PST by SolidRedState (Someone finally found a spine and it is attached to an Alaskan Governor!)
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To: dalereed

Tips make the diner the boss as well as the owner. Which is good for the diner since often the owner and diner have opposite goals (owners want you out as fast as possible, while you probably want to hang out a while, plus many others). Because I’m probably going to tip the waiter more in that time frame than the owner will pay them guess who the waiter tends to side with. There’s a reason fastfood people don’t get tips.


255 posted on 01/07/2010 12:11:56 PM PST by discostu (The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression)
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To: Sloth
WTH? When did I say I don't tip? Read post #156.

You're changing in mid-thread.

You said you don't like to tip.

I said, then get take-out.

You said what if I like their food and want to sit down. (I believe that implies that you wanted to sit down and didn't want to tip.).

I said, why would a waiter want to wait on someone that doesn't tip?

If you don't want to tip servers, call the restaurant and order carry-out. Most restaurants provide this service to their more "frugal" customers.

256 posted on 01/07/2010 12:12:48 PM PST by grand wazoo
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To: RobRoy

>>Sorry, that just does not make sense.<<

Oh well. I like the extra service and I will pay for it. We did a trip to Sydney and left the maid Tootsie Rolls with a note. The next day she left us a Violet Crumble.

I like it. It’s worth a buck to me.

(Rob Roy, are you Scottish? That would explain a lot to one from the McClare clan)


257 posted on 01/07/2010 12:13:48 PM PST by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: rwfromkansas

Yes it is their real pay.

If no one tips them, then they make 2.13 per hour.

If their boss forces them to do minimum wage labor @ 2.13 per hour off of the floor in a closed restaraunt, as Semolina’s did, then they make 2.13 per hour.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned- depending on where your restaurant is located, i.e. who its clients are, they will not tip you, and you will make 2.13 per hour.

The Semolina’s that I worked at was on the edge of New Orleans, and let’s say that there were an inordinate number of “Obama supporters” that ate there. Guess what that means. You got it, you make 2.13 per hour.

Then waiters and waitresses would use that 2.13 per hour to bribe the hostess to sit those “Obama supporters” in anyone else’s section. So, essentially, the waiter’s 2.13 per hour was spent in an effort just to have a chance to earn a tip from a tipping customer.

Management got wind of this bribery, and they were really pissed, to say the least. They called the wait staff into meeting and said, regardless of your tip, you will wait on them, and you will do it happily, to which I said, “If they came in here and ate your food and then left without paying, you would charge them with theft of service, which is a felony. I feel the same way about my tip. They get what they pay for, which is nothing.”

That was my last day on the job :)

This location of Semolina’s was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Good riddance.


258 posted on 01/07/2010 12:16:10 PM PST by chris37
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To: joe fonebone
2) My food is usually delivered either slightly warm or cool. This is not the kitchens fault.

There is no excuse for poor service, but regarding food coming out barely warm, there's several reasons why this happens. One main reason is that the cooks do not communicate to each other, which results in a quick cook food (fried) getting cooked when a medium well steak gets put on the grill. Therefore your fried food will sit there under a lamp for 5-10 minutes while the steak cooks.

There are several different people who should catch this before it ever goes out of the window (the server being the last one). The kitchen manager should know better. The person at the window directing food should have caught it. And the aforementioned server who delivered the food should have spotted it.

As I stated before, there's no excuse for poor service, and the customer should let the manager know about it when it happens. If the manager doesn't correct the problem with the staff, then don't return to the establishment. It will fail on its own.

259 posted on 01/07/2010 12:16:24 PM PST by GOPyouth (The system worked.)
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To: HamiltonJay

That was worth the double post.


260 posted on 01/07/2010 12:18:58 PM PST by grand wazoo
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To: netmilsmom

Y’know, I think I know what my problem is, and why I am rubbing some in the business the wrong way.

I am a very low maintenance customer. Other than asking for jalapeno’s on the side with the occasional mexican meal, I just want to choose my food, get it in a reasonable time and while it’s still hot, and be able to pay for it relatively shortly after I complete the meal. If something sucks I either decide I will never eat there again or, if it is a place I frequent, I’ll guess someone just made a mistake. I don’t complain.

There is very little a waitperson needs to do for me that is not their very basic reason for being employed in the first place.

It is because I do not like being waited on. It is disrespectful to the person doing the “waiting”. My sister and her Husband are VERY rich. When I visit their home or we spend a week with them on their 115’ yacht I always make the mistake of “overly befriending” the staff and not letting them wait on me. I’m getting better at it but it always makes me uncomfortable.

I would love to have a button at my table so that I would only be “bothered” by a wait person when I really need something. I’d hardly ever press the button, would be allowed to converse with my friends uninterrupted, and would be happy to pay a tip based on how many times I pressed the button, and how fast it was responded to.


261 posted on 01/07/2010 12:19:20 PM PST by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: grand wazoo
You're changing in mid-thread.

Not at all.

You said you don't like to tip.

That's true. I hate it. I wish it would go away.

I said, then get take-out. You said what if I like their food and want to sit down. (I believe that implies that you wanted to sit down and didn't want to tip.).

Well, I do *want* to go to a sit down restaurant without tipping. I always want to stop paying taxes. It's not going to happen in my lifetime. If you mean that I stated an intention NOT to tip, then you're simply wrong.

My confusion is, if I am willing to tip (even though it's an abyssmal practice), why should I feel obligated to avoid restaurants where it's expected?

262 posted on 01/07/2010 12:19:39 PM PST by Sloth (Civil disobedience? I'm afraid only the uncivil kind is going to cut it this time.)
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To: absolootezer0

When I lived in the State of Washington, we had a favorite Bistro owned by a hard working Lebanese. I’ve seen him chase a customer down the street, yelling, when the guy turned back the remains of a spinach salad (one leaf left) and demanded that it be removed from the bill, saying. “I forgot that I don’t like spinach!”

Another favorite ploy that angered him was when a customer would ask, “Could you please substitute smoked salmon for the rice pilaff?”

He’d say to my husband, “Smoked salmon is $2 a lb. Rice pilaff is a nickel. Does that ba—t-rd think I’m crazy?”


263 posted on 01/07/2010 12:20:02 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: gdani

Give me a break. Except for fine restaurants, most bartenders know little else than how to pop a top off and mix a hi-alcohol shot for drunk college kids.

And btw, I was a bartender many years ago. I earned more in 4 months of partying and carousing with the customers than my annual income for my first 5 years with a “real job”.


264 posted on 01/07/2010 12:20:16 PM PST by MayfairFly
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To: big black dog

Sounds like a selfish shmuck. I guarantee he’s eaten and drank other people’s bodily fluids many times unwittingly...


265 posted on 01/07/2010 12:23:26 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: big black dog

The basic premise of a free market is an exchange by a willing buyer and a willing seller.

The seller no longer is willing to provide a enjoyable venue for you to hang out — without what he believes would be your fair contribution to providing such an opportunity that you obviously take advantage of.

Most people tip what is customarily expected, but if they don’t have an enjoyable experience, don’t return every week — as you do because you’re getting a fantastic deal. But with anything in society, somebody has to pay for it — and if everyone is not contributing their fair share, then those venues disappear. If all the customers are like you, they go under.

A lot of people expect a lot, if not everything, and think the object is to get without providing anything in return. But somebody has to provide them — or do their small part, rather than demanding they should get something for nothing, because the other guy is not as “smart” as you are.

The general rule is that if you don’t want to tip, don’t go out and eat/drink, or go to places where tipping is not expected. If tipping is expected and how the operation works, that’s what everyone is expected to help out in — even if it’s not stated in a contract.

Most people give each other the benefit of the doubt — until one has a proven track record of intent, and if your clear intention is never to tip ever, then that owner knows you well enough to calculate whether you are an asset or a liability to his business.

For any business, besides the money, the quality of their customers, is what gives them high repute and standing in the community, and they are validated by those whose opinions matter.

To force oneself on others on your own self-determined favorable terms, is the reason people don’t want to be associated with you, and do business with you.


266 posted on 01/07/2010 12:24:05 PM PST by MikeHu
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Oh, I've been having a little bit of fun on this thread, tweaking the tip Nazis.

There was a new chain restaurant opened probably a year ago relatively close to my house. The first time I went there the service and the food were spectacularly bad. You can expect that for the first few weeks there would be issues, but this was past that time. What infuriated me the most was that the high school to college age employees had plenty of time to stand, laugh and gossip, but not to do their jobs.

I left no tip, and sent a blow-by-blow description of my experience to corporate HQ. They sent me a gift certificate, I went back a few months later, and the service and food were both very good. I think I tipped 25%.

Tips are one of the ways we leave feedback for a job done. I pay $40 for a haircut, same guy I've been going to for 20 years; I always have a $5 in my pocket for him.

I went to a waterfront restaurant before Christmas, ran up a bill of about $115; the waitress was wonderful and the food was great. I think I rounded the ticket up to $160.

I've worked for tips as a waiter. I'm on a professional haitus right now and I'm working as a dispatcher for an airport shuttle company. Drivers depend upon tips to supplement their income.

I have no guilt when I answer an outsized sense of entitlement with a $0 tip. That sends a message, also...one I'm happy to explain if asked. The only moral and rational response to an inappropriate sense of expectation is, "No."

Those on this thread who emphasize "customary" ignore "voluntary"...yet, I'm sure they understand the difference between a 10% tithe and 10% sent to the IRS.

Who can figure...

267 posted on 01/07/2010 12:25:24 PM PST by gogeo (Lefties...making small minded pettiness seem...well, fashionable.)
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To: MayfairFly
Give me a break. Except for fine restaurants, most bartenders know little else than how to pop a top off and mix a hi-alcohol shot for drunk college kids.

You might not be aware -- but there's lots of types of bars between fine restaurants & college bars. You may want to reconsider where you hang out. The bar/restaurant I worked at required a lot more including, as mentioned before, dealing with drunken a-holes.

And btw, I was a bartender many years ago. I earned more in 4 months of partying and carousing with the customers than my annual income for my first 5 years with a “real job”.

In other words, you were a crappy employee?

268 posted on 01/07/2010 12:26:22 PM PST by gdani (I just want to be left on this block of ice...)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Wow.

No matter what you think about tipping, that is tacky and completely rude.

I am glad your husband gave her something in private.

If you don’t like something, you tell the server immediately, not wait until the end. I think some people say things like that just so they can get a comped meal, and it is really rude.


269 posted on 01/07/2010 12:26:56 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: Sloth
My confusion is, if I am willing to tip (even though it's an abyssmal practice), why should I feel obligated to avoid restaurants where it's expected?

If you are willing to tip (graciously or not) there is no problem.

270 posted on 01/07/2010 12:29:06 PM PST by grand wazoo
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To: trumandogz

>>How is that?<<

Try refusing service to a black man. I dare ya.


271 posted on 01/07/2010 12:29:35 PM PST by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: big black dog

Cheap F***.


272 posted on 01/07/2010 12:30:00 PM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: MayfairFly
And btw, I was a bartender many years ago. I earned more in 4 months of partying and carousing with the customers than my annual income for my first 5 years with a “real job”.

Nobody believes that tending bar is the path to wealth and prosperity.

273 posted on 01/07/2010 12:31:02 PM PST by grand wazoo
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To: GOPyouth

That’s awful. I am shocked the other folks at the table didn’t leave their own tips.


274 posted on 01/07/2010 12:31:34 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: RobRoy

Good waiters shouldn’t be hassling you too often. They should be looking for empty stuff (glasses to refill, plates to take away) and about half way through should ask how your food is, but other than that unless you engage them in conversation should be leaving you alone. I’m not a chatty guy, so I’m totally in alignment on the not wanting to be hassled, but I do want my glasses refilled.


275 posted on 01/07/2010 12:32:26 PM PST by discostu (The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression)
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To: RobRoy
I do not disagree with you on any point in the post, except maybe on the dime tip. If I get lousy service, I stiff them and rarely will go back to the same place.

However, one guy who goes on a regular basis to the same restaurant, always stiffing the hired help, is a jerk and deserves to be 86'd.

276 posted on 01/07/2010 12:33:42 PM PST by Michael.SF. (At least Hitler got the Olympics for Germany)
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To: RobRoy
Try refusing service to a black man. I dare ya.

And what reason would a restaurant have for banning a black man from their premises?

277 posted on 01/07/2010 12:33:56 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: RobRoy
I am a very low maintenance customer. Other than asking for jalapeno’s on the side with the occasional mexican meal, I just want to choose my food, get it in a reasonable time and while it’s still hot, and be able to pay for it relatively shortly after I complete the meal. If something sucks I either decide I will never eat there again or, if it is a place I frequent, I’ll guess someone just made a mistake. I don’t complain.

There is very little a waitperson needs to do for me that is not their very basic reason for being employed in the first place.

Same here. I virtually never complain or send anything back (it has to be something absolutely inexcusable, like chicken that's bloody & raw inside), and I'm sometimes kind of embarrassed when my wife does, or when she makes some special request. Accuracy and keeping liquid in my glass are pretty much the only things I want from a server.

278 posted on 01/07/2010 12:34:55 PM PST by Sloth (Civil disobedience? I'm afraid only the uncivil kind is going to cut it this time.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

No, life isn’t.

But, that isn’t really the point.


279 posted on 01/07/2010 12:35:50 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: big black dog

I always tip. But I have sometimes wondered if this makes sense when I am in a smaller ethnic restaurant where the waitperson is obviously the owner or a member of the owner’s family.


280 posted on 01/07/2010 12:36:01 PM PST by wideminded
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To: big black dog

I always tip. But I have sometimes wondered if this makes sense when I am in a smaller ethnic restaurant where the waitperson is obviously the owner or a member of the owner’s family.


281 posted on 01/07/2010 12:36:13 PM PST by wideminded
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To: trumandogz
And what reason would a restaurant have for banning a black man from their premises?

Because they don't normally tip.

282 posted on 01/07/2010 12:37:55 PM PST by grand wazoo
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To: wideminded

If they’re a member of the owners family definitely tip, most folks that have relatives working for them do so because relatives are cheap so they’re probably making less than a normal employee would. If it’s the owner then it’s all about how much you liked the overall experience, you can chose not to tip an owner because the pain sucks, it’s all their fault.


283 posted on 01/07/2010 12:40:53 PM PST by discostu (The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression)
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To: RobRoy

I’m not joking. In your case, you ask the waitress why you had to stare at your meal for five minutes and then tip accordingly.

You’ve got choices, and so does the restaurant. Waitresses SHOULD be waiting on their best tippers. That’s where their and their owner’s best interests lie.

If that’s your first meal at that restaurant, then you likely won’t return. If you’ve been dining there for sometime and you haven’t been tipping, then little wonder why your meal was a breeding ground for flies for five minutes.

As an owner, I service all clients, but not all clients are equal.

Why would I expect my waitress to give the same level of service to some service thief when I have other clients tipping up to 30%?

If my waitress has to explain the economics of that situation to me in order to back her play, then I don’t deserve to be in business.

This owner handled it completely wrong. I would have invited the idiot back. I would have waved a friendly hello to him as he came in. I would have then told my waitstaff, including the bar, to forget he existed. Fill the salt and pepper first, clean the menus, then take a break - if he’s STILL there, then bring him water and ask him what he wants to drink.

The man’s getting exactly the service he’s willing to pay for.


284 posted on 01/07/2010 12:41:23 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: big black dog

What a cheap bastard! He should just stay home and eat freezer-burned pot pies and drink out-of-date Milwaukee’s Bests. Then he can wh*ck off over a twenty-year-old Playboy.


285 posted on 01/07/2010 12:44:22 PM PST by Dionysius (Jingoism is no vice in these troubled times.)
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To: big black dog
Two words.

Cheep B*****d!

286 posted on 01/07/2010 12:50:10 PM PST by Ditto (Directions for Clean Government: If they are in, vote them out. Rinse and repeat.)
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To: All
As long as we're on the topic of tipping, how does it make any freaking sense for the amount of the tip to be based on the cost of the food? We have a local place that offers a great breakfast deal, including drink, for $3.75. Even if we order an extra side item, you're looking at ten bucks or so after sales tax for my wife & I to eat there. If I tipped 15%, I'd be leaving $1.50. Then later that day we go to Red Lobster, spend $33, and the 15% tip would come to five bucks. But the server at the cheap place does about the same amount of work. Why should they be punished for working at a place that has better prices?
287 posted on 01/07/2010 12:53:05 PM PST by Sloth (Civil disobedience? I'm afraid only the uncivil kind is going to cut it this time.)
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To: big black dog
This guy is a regular at a restaurant where he never tips? He's obviously never worked in a restaurant and is a brave man to do this. He would undoubtedly be amazed by what's probably happened to his food and/or drink prior to arriving in front of him. He's appears to be pretty clueless.

Anyone altering a credit card receipt should be terminated by the owner. However, the owner was right in asking him not to come back. Tipping ain't goin' away and this guy is an idiot to think it's going to change.

288 posted on 01/07/2010 1:03:28 PM PST by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: gdani

Did I touch a nerve, or are you always rude?
FYI, I performed my job well and was tipped generously for it. Nevertheless, I’m willing to recognize that it didn’t require much learning or intelligence.

“You might not be aware — but there’s lots of types of bars between fine restaurants & college bars.”

Notwithstanding your condescending remark, who’s talking about college bars? I’ve been to bars ranging from utter dives on up to the Plaza Hotel. I contend that except for high-end restauants and bars (where they earn their money), the bartenders in your typical neighborhood establishment know all they need to know after a week on the job.


289 posted on 01/07/2010 1:03:35 PM PST by MayfairFly
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To: gogeo
This particular owner has an unseemly sense of entitlement. Thay does not speak well for his establishment or his service.

I totally disagree. It sounds like the owner respects his waitstaff, and I would expect that they will return the favor through increased loyatly / work ethic. He stood up for his employees; good for him.

290 posted on 01/07/2010 1:06:24 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: rwfromkansas

Actually, it is the point ... you’ve been complaining that some service workers are being treated “unfairly”, because they don’t get tips.


291 posted on 01/07/2010 1:08:10 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Sloth

It’s a baseline. If you want to tip more go ahead. There’s a short order place I used to frequent that was insanely cheap like the place you discuss, I usually gave them $20 even though it was nearly impossible for the meal to cost more than $10. But it was $20 worth of food as far as I was concerned so what the heck.


292 posted on 01/07/2010 1:10:35 PM PST by discostu (The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression)
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To: Sloth

At those really inexpensive breakfast/lunch joints, I’ve several times left a 100% tip.


293 posted on 01/07/2010 1:11:29 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Sloth

Here’s what I’ve heard:

General rule: Breakfast*: 10%. Lunch: 15% Dinner: 20%

*”I’m going to work” breakfast. Not “I’m finishing a pub crawl” breakfast.

Why: Breakfast sees a lot of turnover in guests during the period. Lunch less so. Dinner least.


294 posted on 01/07/2010 1:12:05 PM PST by BradyLS (DO NOT FEED THE BEARS!)
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To: MayfairFly
Did I touch a nerve, or are you always rude?

I'm not the one maligning bartenders as people with easy jobs & limited intelligence. Anyone who routinely deals with drunks & the public in general deserves all they can get.

FYI, I performed my job well

Make up your mind. Did you perform your job well or did you get drunk & carouse with your customers, as you said before?

295 posted on 01/07/2010 1:16:03 PM PST by gdani (I just want to be left on this block of ice...)
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To: RobRoy
Hmmm...frankly I am surprised. I will always leave one or two bucks for the woman who cleans up. Sometimes I leave a buck a day and sometimes I leave it when I check out.

I am from the northeast and that is fairly common here...perhaps our difference on this issue relates to the culture of where we're from.

But the way I figure, when I travel for business, I am staying in a room that can be anywhere from 125 to 300/night and a minimum wage woman who works hard (likely helping support a family) deserves a few bucks. I will, at times, go down to the desk and change a 5 or 10 so I can leave a few singles, come back to the room and then go back down and check out.

I guess it was my mistake to think this was a universal thing...

296 posted on 01/07/2010 1:17:30 PM PST by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: Sloth

...And as others have said, the general rule is the baseline for tippong. Get a great breakfast cheap? Leave more! Lousy service? Leave 5% or 10%. My own rule is, regardless of where you go for what meal or what you end up getting, be prepared to leave a 20% gratuity to your own bill.


297 posted on 01/07/2010 1:17:54 PM PST by BradyLS (DO NOT FEED THE BEARS!)
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To: grand wazoo

You’re putting words in my mouth. I never said tending bar was a path to riches.
I simply was attempting to illustrate that it took me several years out in the business world before I was able to earn what I did as a young, inexperienced, and non-degreed bartender.


298 posted on 01/07/2010 1:18:11 PM PST by MayfairFly
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To: Dionysius

Sounds like a great night for a college guy...


299 posted on 01/07/2010 1:20:25 PM PST by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: NittanyLion
I totally disagree...

You are free to do so, of course. It comes down to whether one views a tip as voluntary or mandatory. If we don't agree on the basic premise, there's no point in discussing it.

The owner is free, of course, to follow any policy he pleases. In this case, I think posting the policy would be appropriate.

If he doesn't want to, then I would question his motive...and his honesty. He obviously does not view it as voluntary.

I call it a sense of entitlement. What would you call it, when wait staff adds their own tip onto the ticket...twice?

I think there's no other word for it...and an inappropriate sense of entitlement is a flag flown by losers and looters. It's poison to individuals and to societies.

I understand the guy goes there to visit friends. It seems to me that tipping may be the price of admission. If he chooses not to, it's a simple decision; it's not proof of moral decay or defect. I am amazed at the name calling and invective aimed at him.

300 posted on 01/07/2010 1:22:29 PM PST by gogeo (Lefties...making small minded pettiness seem...well, fashionable.)
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