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I Was Banned For Not Tipping ^

Posted on 01/07/2010 9:51:07 AM PST by big black dog

Every Tuesday I go to Murphy's Taproom in Manchester to hang out with a bunch of liberty-oriented people. This is a famous event among Free-staters. About 40-60 people gather weekly for about 4 hours and eat and drink and are merry. I'm no longer allowed to go there, because I don't tip.

I've written some of my thoughts about tipping in the past, and have since fleshed out my position in my mind, so I won't focus here on the reasons to tip or not to tip. Here, I want to merely explain what happened tonight.

About 6 weeks ago, someone at Murphy's charged my credit card for a tip even though I did not pay one. I probably wrote a "0" (zero) on the tip line because I have done that for years, but perhaps the waiter, or whomever, hand-wrote "3.0" in front of that to look like "3.00," because they charged me a $3.00 tip. Next Tuesday I told Keith Murphy, the owner of Murphy's Taproom, and he refunded my $3.00. I did not ask to see the original receipt and he did not offer to let me see it.

Then, a few weeks later, I was again charged for a tip that I did not offer. In case you're curious, I do not tip ever, so I am positive that I did not tip in either of these instances. So tonight when I was gathering with my friends at Murphy's, I told Keith it happened again, for $4.00 this time. He said he'd look into it and refund my money if it was true (he has no reason to trust me, so I accept that he should trust the original paperwork). But then he asked me if I tipped the waitress in cash. I said "No." He asked me how I tipped the waitress. I said "I didn't. I don't tip." Keith then asked me to come with him into the back room to talk about it.

On the way back he said to me, "I've got to warn you, I was a waiter for 10 years." I'm sure this was meant to alert me to his position on the matter, which seemed to be pro-tipping, but it seems odd to think that me knowing his position would alter mine.

He asked if I received good service. I told him "The service is average here, but I can understand why: the place is a zoo. People are changing tables, moving around, it's crowded..." I was being conservative in that estimation of the quality of service: service at Murphy's is generally pretty bad (not always!) but for the aforementioned, understandable reasons.

He let me know that the waiters earned $3.00 per hour. I said, "Yeah, I learned that a month ago. That doesn't happen in California." He told me it's standard on the east coast, which I also learned about a month ago.

He asked me why I don't tip waiters that earn $3.00 per hour, and I told him "It's not my problem or choice. They chose to work for $3.00 per hour and could choose another job that paid more if they wanted to." He asked for more reasons, and I told him "I don't tip anyone" and "if I tip the waiters, why don't I tip the cook or the owner?," and possibly one or two more reasons. He said "But you do tip me [the owner], in a way. I get a small portion each time you pay." And I replied, "So do the waiters: $3.00 per hour."

To this, Keith replied, "I don't pay my waiters $3.00 per hour to give good service." I said, "Yes, you do." He said, "No, I don't." I said, "Yes, you do. You hired them at $3.00 to do what?" And he said "To wait on customers..." - and here he realized what he was saying, and added "...with the expectation of receiving the standard 15-20% tip in addition to their wages." He also told me that "tipping is a custom in this country - at least, and many others." I'm aware of this, and I'm aware of countries in which tipping is considered an insult (e.g., Japan), and I'm aware that on cruise ships, for example, that are in international waters and flying flags of convenience (i.e., they are not in any country), tipping is also customary; I did not mention any of this to Keith.

Keith then told me, "This is nothing personal against you, but if you're not going to take care of my wait staff, I don't want you in my restaurant. It's your right to not tip, but it's my right to not want you as a customer." I replied, "OK. I understand. Please refund my $4.00 and I'll leave. Can I have five minutes to say goodbye to my friends?" He allowed me five minutes.

As I was saying goodbye to my friends, Keith approached me and gave me my $4.00 and showed me the original receipt, explaining "It was an accident. The waitress though the zero you wrote on the tip line was a four, and you can see it does kind of look like a four." It did indeed look like a four. But I did not write it that way. When I write any dollar amount, ever, I write the full amount, like "$4.00" or "4.00" - never like "4" - but on the receipt, all that was written was "0" and that had a few extra lines and squiggles that made it look kind of like a "4." And the number "3" in the total amount at the bottom of the receipt had been written over as well, to make "$23.20" look like "$27.20" - I did not do that, either. I stuttered a few seconds, trying to find a polite way to tell Keith that it was not an accident, that his waitress intentionally stole my money, but I figured he was not going to un-ban me and I didn't see a point, so I just said, "OK."

I recognize that it is Keith's restaurant - his private property - and as such he has the right to choose his customers. I do not hold it against him that he banned me, or even that he disagrees with me about tipping. I am merely disappointed that I will no longer be able to go to Taproom Tuesdays. I really enjoyed that event. And there are some friends that I hardly ever see except there. Oh well, I'll have to make more of an effort to see them elsewhere.

I realize, though, that what Keith essentially did was ban me from the restaurant because he's too cheap to pay his wait staff better. That's not exactly true, because the government has a law saying that restaurant owners must pay their tip-receiving wait staff exactly $3.00 per hour - no more and no less. But Keith could make better arrangements with his employees and not hold his customers responsible for his wait staff's well-being. Keith could, for example, pay his wait staff more, but keep it under the table; or he could offer to give them, out of his own pocket, the difference between whatever his customers tip and 20% of their bill; or he could make a policy in his restaurant that tipping is not allowed, and then the law would allow him to pay them more; or he could even help his wait staff recognize that tips are not guaranteed like wages are, even as reward for good service. But he would rather pay them less of his own money and rely on his customers to follow tradition and give them more money. And his decision to do so, in this case, cost him a customer.

TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: barskey; cheap; cheapskate; freestateproject; fsp; mikebarskey; mrpink; newhampshire; notacityinchina; ronpaul; shameless; subsidizedwages; tipping; waiters
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To: livius

I know some Black Servers who hate having their tables filled with that group that doesn’t tip.

321 posted on 01/07/2010 9:47:58 PM PST by happygrl (Hope and Change or Rope and Chains?)
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To: big black dog
Every Tuesday I go to Murphy's Taproom in Manchester to hang out with a bunch of liberty-oriented people. This is a famous event among Free-staters freeloaders.
322 posted on 01/07/2010 9:57:01 PM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Liberalism is a social disease.)
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To: big black dog
And his decision to do so, in this case, cost him a customer.

But he didn't lose a paying customer, so he actually gained. That's just smart business. I'll lay you 6 to 1 odds that his "friends" at the bar thought he was a loser, too.

323 posted on 01/07/2010 10:02:03 PM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Liberalism is a social disease.)
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To: big black dog

Feb. 2009

At approximately 12:50am, on Sunday the 1st of February 2009, Free State Project member Mike Barskey was pulled over by Amherst, New Hampshire police after apparently catching the eye of the arresting officer when passing or being passed by another car. The officer followed Mike for a few minutes and ran his California plates finding that he had bench warrant for his arrest due to not showing up to a court hearing. The officer allowed Mike to drive his car to a nearby business parking lot so it wouldn’t have to be towed and then took Mike to the police station. After looking into the matter more the officers realized Mike has a cash bail of $2000 and that his registration is expired therefore tacking on some amount for that.

Mike refused to have his fingerprints taken and was told that that when he is brought to Valley Street jail in Manchester that they would “take them.” He mentions in his Porc411 messages that he is refusing or planned to refuse to answer some or all of the questions they were asking of him and he wasn’t planning on paying the cash bail.

Dalebert reports that Mike Barskey’s court date has been set to March 12th, 2009. Since he’s unwilling to pay his $2040 bail or complete two parts of the processing he will be kept in jail till his court date.


Mike Barskey has 6 charges against him according to Kat Kanning: speeding, open container, gun with no concealed carry license, not showing up for court and two others now forgotten. Worse case for the concealed carry charge is 1 year in jail + fines.

324 posted on 01/07/2010 10:22:18 PM PST by kcvl
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To: big black dog

325 posted on 01/07/2010 10:32:16 PM PST by kcvl
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To: afraidfortherepublic

>The writer’s waitress/waiter is taxed on an estimated 10-20% of her/his checks whether she/he receives it, or not.<

Not only that, but in some eateries waitstaff must “tip out” the busboy, hostess and bartender.

When a customer stiffs the waitress in this type place, she actually ends up paying for the privilege of having to wait on the cheap slob.

326 posted on 01/07/2010 10:32:53 PM PST by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

>I can’t believe how many FReepers are in favor of tipping:<

It’s culturally correct to do so in this country. You know the saying, “When in Rome”?

>Never tip anyone, ever. It’s bad form.<

Do that in a US restaurant once and you’ll get away with it. Do it repeatedly at the same place and don’t be surprised if you ingest a steak someone dropped on the floor then put it back on the plate, or worse.

327 posted on 01/07/2010 10:44:49 PM PST by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
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To: livius
there was another group that also never tipped, but I won’t go there...

Been some pretty good guesses by a few people, I guess Church groups.

Not to offend (I am Christian), but just that was what I have heard before.

328 posted on 01/07/2010 10:48:57 PM PST by LowOiL ("I adore McCain, support him 100% and will do everything I can to support his reelection" S. Palin)
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To: big black dog

“He asked me why I don’t tip waiters that earn $3.00 per hour...”

They really only make $3/hour ? I figured it wasn’t much but still more than that. Talk about relying on the kindness of strangers...

329 posted on 01/07/2010 10:50:40 PM PST by PLMerite (Ride to the sound of the Guns - I'll probably need help.)
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To: metalurgist
Your're from Maryland I'd bet.

In the immortal words of Calvin Coolidge; you lose. My 'circle' includes women who have waited tables in New England tourist traps...

330 posted on 01/08/2010 3:07:06 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the
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To: LowOiL

One of the “problems” with church groups is that they usually don’t drink and often they don’t even order much, so their bill is low. But all groups tend to be bad - everybody thinks that the tip is somebody else’s responsibility, and a lot of times they are ordering a set menu anyway and don’t have as much personal interaction with the server. That’s why most restaurants put a surcharge for the tip on the bill for a party.

There’s nothing like hustling your posterior off to get 15 meals out at the same time, hot and correct, and then find $2 on the table (from the one generous member of the party who even thought to tip!)

331 posted on 01/08/2010 3:31:04 AM PST by livius
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To: happygrl

Yes, it’s a problem. I once saw an excellent article in a business magazine directed at women (who also tend not to tip) telling them that now that they were not just watching the family budget but were responsible for the corporate image, being cheap was not a virtue.

The article pointed out that you wanted your clients or whoever you were taking to this business lunch to have a pleasant time, not see your company as nervous and poor, and not see you as somebody who thinks so small that “saving” a few dollars on a tip was a point of pride. If you go to a place regularly, of course, which most businesses do, you have to be particularly careful to maintain a good relationship with the staff.

The article pointed out that many women (this was a few years ago) were new to positions of responsibility and hadn’t readjusted their social behavior yet. I think this may apply to all of the groups who are stingy tippers and difficult restaurant clients.

332 posted on 01/08/2010 3:37:43 AM PST by livius
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To: absolootezer0
"come to my restaurant. we don't have a single democrat. "

Several years ago, right during the Invasion of Iraq, my wife and I were dining at very upscale restaurant in Atlanta. Our waiter happened to be an mature Iranian immigrant, who fled Iran after the Shah was deposed. The subject of Iraq came up, and some other political questions and it became apparent that he was a very conservative guy. And I commented to him that I presumed that to be unusual. I was always under the impression that restaurants were a traditional bastion of liberalism. He surprised me even further by saying virtually all the wait staff were Republicans - remember, it's an upscale restaurant - but, most of the kitchen staff were liberal, to especially include the chef de cuisine.

I have often wondered if that's typical in restaurants that tend to employee the mature, professional waiter, and not just the "kids" working themselves through college or waiting for their big "breaks".

333 posted on 01/08/2010 9:16:50 AM PST by OldDeckHand (Flag waiving, church attending, gun toting militant heterosexual. Deal with it.)
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To: big black dog

Whew.. It’s a little scary that creeps like the author of this piece are out there.

334 posted on 01/08/2010 9:23:12 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: big black dog; All

I don’t have any sympathy for a non-tipper. A large part of my salary is also based on tips and I frown down on people who do not tip. Sorry, but just as much as you have a right to be cheap, the establishment has a right to ban you.

335 posted on 01/08/2010 9:26:55 AM PST by BillyKess (THE LONG ISLAND EAGLE - HTTP://LONGISLANDEAGLE.COM/)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
I'm way late to the party, but I just have to chime in on this:

Tipping reinforces the servant/master relationship, in many ways. It’s one thing to pay a fair price for something, and quite another to pay for servitude — which is something that our settlers left back in England.

That's how it was explained to me in the first English pub I went to. Of course I left a tip - stiffing the waitstaff is about the worst thing you can do in an American bar - and they insisted on giving it back and told me (politely as ever - those English!) that tips were for servants. It is fine to buy the barkeep a drink, though, and if he chooses to drink it later, that's his own business.

That was at the beginning of my trip, down in Salisbury. I finished up in London, and THOSE bartenders had long since gotten over the shame of accepting a tip.

336 posted on 01/08/2010 10:56:22 AM PST by nina0113
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To: netmilsmom

B S they need to pay all taxes

337 posted on 01/08/2010 11:43:23 AM PST by bobrlbob
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To: livius

Husband, kids and I went to the Texas Roadhouse the other night. Had a group of young “Amish” sitting right next to us. They left before us. When husband and kids were at the restroom, the waiter came up to me to let me know that we left more of a tip for our $30+ meal than that group did for their $100+ meal.

338 posted on 01/10/2010 4:08:42 AM PST by beaversmom
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To: big black dog

While I do think not tipping ever is poor taste, I don’t think tipping should ever be mandatory.

This is towards everyone else
I remember back in older days when, (prepare to have your mind blown) tips were given as courtesy towards good service (KABLOOOOOM!!!)

Now a days, I hate going to restaurants because all these entitled cry babies scream and shout if you don’t tip them regardless of the service quality. Tips are customary, yes but it’s also the freedom of choice for a costumer to decide wither or not to tip. Not every patron can afford tips. What if this was the one day they could save enough money to eat out? Not everyone who eats at a restaurant has infinite income to throw around. In the good old days, waiters/waitresses worked at diners knowing what to expect. They expected to get their pay checks and if by chance they were attentive enough, a few tips too.

I know people ‘should’ tip waiters when they give good service. But it’s never appropriate for the waiters to expect it or even take it if they don’t receive it.

Like he said, if you don’t like your wages then get a better job, don’t whine to the customers who just want to eat a meal that your life is hard and your a charity case.

People go to restaurants to eat food. Not to be pampered by the staff. The good service should be a business strategy. Treat your customers good and word of mouth/reviews will get you more customers/revenue. Treat them bad because they don’t tip good and word of mouth/reviews will criticize your establishment and fewer people will want to eat there.

I usually tip every time. But when the receipt includes a predetermined tip to the bill, I tip nothing, because that’s just rude to demand your customers to tip. The waiters are being paid to service the customers. The customers shouldn’t pay to not be insulted.

339 posted on 03/17/2013 11:48:02 PM PDT by Justinrain
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To: livius

That would be black people

But they are not the only minority doesn’t tip well

340 posted on 03/18/2013 12:01:39 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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