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To: EnderWiggins
West Point has a four year program. Most persons do not graduate from high school until they are 18, your statement that most persons graduate from West Point when they are 21 is suspect to anyone who can add. It has been this way for a long time. George Custer was the youngest West Point graduate in his class. He was 22. I encourage anyone reading this to verify your statement about the average age of West Point graduates.

Your comments about the FBI issuing most Security Clearances for military personnel is just wrong and really destroys your credibility here. Anyone reading this can easily verify this for themselves also. Of course if others were actually reading this thread you would be shot out of the water on this one. With very few exceptions the Defense Security Service (DSS) gathers the background information. Once the information has been verified, and the investigations completed, DSS presents the information to the specific military service's adjudicator authority (each military service has their own), who determine whether or not to grant the security clearance, using standards set by that particular military service.

From the late 70s through the 80s, anyone who admitted to being a pot smoker was not welcome in most branches of the service. Obama has admitted in public and in his autobiographies that he used much harder drugs; it is very unlikely that he would have been welcomed into any branch of the service at that time. I am not as familiar with more recent policy but I am doubtful that things have eased up to the point where a person confessing to illegal drug use would be welcomed into any branch of the service without at least a great deal of additional scrutiny. Given the associations that Obama has admitted to in public and in his autobiography no branch of the service would have even bothered going to the trouble and expense of trying to get him a security clearance during this time period.

“The fact that he is even willing to offer an opinion demonstrates that he has no idea what he is talking about.” I have known the persons who have given these opinions for a very long time, and I know for certain that they do know what they are talking about. Many former and current military members are very talkative and willing to share their experiences and opinions when asked. This does not demonstrate that they don't know what they are talking about.

I hate to say it, but you have used nearly every Alinsky tactic in the book. You have thrown out many half truths to confuse the issues. You have subtly added misleading qualifiers that give the impression that you are claiming something which actually you are not. You ridicule and cast dispersions any anyone who expresses knowledge that contradicts your point of view without offering any verifiable information to back up your claims. Your protests are transparent... you are obviously trying to defend your questionable claims by going on the attack. Despite your being a very new member in this forum I have given you the benefit of the doubt because you have claimed to be a veteran and an Army officer. You are long on Obama talking points but very short on common sense. You also seem to have very low expectations for the ability of people here to verify your questionable information. Freepers are known for being able to sift through the BS so I doubt whether you will last all that long here.

32 posted on 02/19/2010 8:12:46 PM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: fireman15
"West Point has a four year program. Most persons do not graduate from high school until they are 18, your statement that most persons graduate from West Point when they are 21 is suspect to anyone who can add.

I graduated from West Point on June 6, 1978 and would not turn 22 until the following December 29th. And I was not the youngest member of my graduating class by more than a month. I have no idea what point you imagine you are trying to make, but it is hardly meaningful. There are more than six months there of hundreds of my classmates having 22nd birthdays.

If the average age of highs school graduation is 18, then about half will be younger. See how that works?

"It has been this way for a long time. George Custer was the youngest West Point graduate in his class. He was 22. I encourage anyone reading this to verify your statement about the average age of West Point graduates."

I have to tell you, I did not know that Custer was the youngest in his class, and I'm not sure it's true. What I do know is that he graduated last in his class, and so officially earned the title of "Class Goat." I believe you may have those details confused.

West Point rules are that anybody can matriculate as long as they will be older than 20 and younger than 27 on graduation day.

"With very few exceptions the Defense Security Service (DSS) gathers the background information. "

Aaaahhhh. There's your confusion. With very few exceptions the DSS compiles the background information. Gathering it is another issue entirely. The DSS has been subcontracting many if not most of these investigations to other organizations since 1974, when they first picked up the responsibility (but not the manpower) for performing them. The FBI is the primary organization performing the actual field interviews especially since they have the geographic infrastructure to do so and DSS does not.

"From the late 70s through the 80s, anyone who admitted to being a pot smoker was not welcome in most branches of the service."

You have been misled. This corresponds to one of the periods of most highly acknowledged drug use both in and outside the military. The simple truth of the matter is that they tacitly recognized the fact that the services would be unable to fill their billets were this rule actually followed. It has been winked at for more than 40 years.

Your continued tendency to list Obama's "disqualifications" can be safely ignored since I have already made the point that such speculation carries no weight with actual reality. You are merely stating again the opinion I have asserted deserves no confidence. Repetitioon is not actual argument.

"I have known the persons who have given these opinions for a very long time, and I know for certain that they do know what they are talking about. Many former and current military members are very talkative and willing to share their experiences and opinions when asked. This does not demonstrate that they don't know what they are talking about."

Again... repetition is not argument. Your confidence in them is noted. I know better. The argument is not advanced in any way from where it was several posts ago.

"You ridicule and cast dispersions any anyone who expresses knowledge that contradicts your point of view without offering any verifiable information to back up your claims. Your protests are transparent... you are obviously trying to defend your questionable claims by going on the attack."

I have ridiculed no one. I have attacked no one. I have observed the simple unassailable truth that nobody can say from the outside looking in who will or will not pass a background investigation. Investigators do not care what some blog says a person's prior associations were. They care what the investigation determines they are.

You will note that never once have I asserted that Obama would pass such an investigation. I have no idea if he would or wouldn't.

And neither do any of your friends.

"You also seem to have very low expectations for the ability of people here to verify your questionable information. Freepers are known for being able to sift through the BS so I doubt whether you will last all that long here."

To this point, I am impressed neither by your ability to sift through the BS nor your prioritization of your energy. I am actually a bit puzzled why you are taking this conversation as personally as you have... but the point that remains is this:

Anybody who asserts that Obama could not pass a security clearance investigation is simply making it up as they go. It is worse than a wild guess.
33 posted on 02/20/2010 10:12:58 AM PST by EnderWiggins
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