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To: fireman15
"West Point has a four year program. Most persons do not graduate from high school until they are 18, your statement that most persons graduate from West Point when they are 21 is suspect to anyone who can add.

I graduated from West Point on June 6, 1978 and would not turn 22 until the following December 29th. And I was not the youngest member of my graduating class by more than a month. I have no idea what point you imagine you are trying to make, but it is hardly meaningful. There are more than six months there of hundreds of my classmates having 22nd birthdays.

If the average age of highs school graduation is 18, then about half will be younger. See how that works?

"It has been this way for a long time. George Custer was the youngest West Point graduate in his class. He was 22. I encourage anyone reading this to verify your statement about the average age of West Point graduates."

I have to tell you, I did not know that Custer was the youngest in his class, and I'm not sure it's true. What I do know is that he graduated last in his class, and so officially earned the title of "Class Goat." I believe you may have those details confused.

West Point rules are that anybody can matriculate as long as they will be older than 20 and younger than 27 on graduation day.

"With very few exceptions the Defense Security Service (DSS) gathers the background information. "

Aaaahhhh. There's your confusion. With very few exceptions the DSS compiles the background information. Gathering it is another issue entirely. The DSS has been subcontracting many if not most of these investigations to other organizations since 1974, when they first picked up the responsibility (but not the manpower) for performing them. The FBI is the primary organization performing the actual field interviews especially since they have the geographic infrastructure to do so and DSS does not.

"From the late 70s through the 80s, anyone who admitted to being a pot smoker was not welcome in most branches of the service."

You have been misled. This corresponds to one of the periods of most highly acknowledged drug use both in and outside the military. The simple truth of the matter is that they tacitly recognized the fact that the services would be unable to fill their billets were this rule actually followed. It has been winked at for more than 40 years.

Your continued tendency to list Obama's "disqualifications" can be safely ignored since I have already made the point that such speculation carries no weight with actual reality. You are merely stating again the opinion I have asserted deserves no confidence. Repetitioon is not actual argument.

"I have known the persons who have given these opinions for a very long time, and I know for certain that they do know what they are talking about. Many former and current military members are very talkative and willing to share their experiences and opinions when asked. This does not demonstrate that they don't know what they are talking about."

Again... repetition is not argument. Your confidence in them is noted. I know better. The argument is not advanced in any way from where it was several posts ago.

"You ridicule and cast dispersions any anyone who expresses knowledge that contradicts your point of view without offering any verifiable information to back up your claims. Your protests are transparent... you are obviously trying to defend your questionable claims by going on the attack."

I have ridiculed no one. I have attacked no one. I have observed the simple unassailable truth that nobody can say from the outside looking in who will or will not pass a background investigation. Investigators do not care what some blog says a person's prior associations were. They care what the investigation determines they are.

You will note that never once have I asserted that Obama would pass such an investigation. I have no idea if he would or wouldn't.

And neither do any of your friends.

"You also seem to have very low expectations for the ability of people here to verify your questionable information. Freepers are known for being able to sift through the BS so I doubt whether you will last all that long here."

To this point, I am impressed neither by your ability to sift through the BS nor your prioritization of your energy. I am actually a bit puzzled why you are taking this conversation as personally as you have... but the point that remains is this:

Anybody who asserts that Obama could not pass a security clearance investigation is simply making it up as they go. It is worse than a wild guess.
33 posted on 02/20/2010 10:12:58 AM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins

EnderWiggins my wife was born in August of 1956. You were born on December 29, 1956. That makes her several months older than you.

She had to get a waiver to be entered into kindergarten because she had just turned 5 years old. She was the youngest student in every class through her entire academic career. She was the youngest graduate from her high school in the class of 1974. She had to get a waiver signed by a doctor and a surgeon to take the tests to get into nursing school because one of the age requirement at that time were that a person had to be 18 before they would allow her to take the tests to get into nursing school.

In order for you to graduate in the class of 1974 you would either have had to have been only 4 years when you entered Kindergarten or you would have had to graduate a year earlier than your classmates. In my previous posts I congratulated you for your achievement because very very few persons graduate from West Point at 21 most of them are 22 or older. Instead of accepting my compliment you stated that you were just average and that most of your classmates were 21 when they graduated. It is possible for people to graduate from West Point at just 21. It certainly is not the norm as you would surely know if you had actually attended.

“West Point rules are that anybody can matriculate as long as they will be older than 20 and younger than 27 on graduation day.” I am not sure where you dug that up. In reality each candidate must:
be 17 but not yet 23 years of age by July 1 of the year admitted.

I am not a professional Obama PR person as you most likely are, so I am going to get out and enjoy the beautiful day rather than continue refuting the rest of the lies and micharacterizations in your post.


34 posted on 02/20/2010 11:49:15 AM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: EnderWiggins
EnderWiggins, I just can't let this one go. I posted, “From the late 70s through the 80s, anyone who admitted to being a pot smoker was not welcome in most branches of the service.”

EnderWiggins you posted, “You have been misled. This corresponds to one of the periods of most highly acknowledged drug use both in and outside the military. The simple truth of the matter is that they tacitly recognized the fact that the services would be unable to fill their billets were this rule actually followed. It has been winked at for more than 40 years.”

The reason why the military began refusing to recruit persons who were drug users is because there was a problem in the military which was determined to be a security threat. Random drug tests became the norm for anyone given a position of responsibility. My wife's ex-husband was a recruiter; he was never instructed to give a wink to drug users and let them in. The military was desperately trying to root out drug users and not let more in. I am not sure how it is possible that you were not aware of this effort. It is very puzzling, but then anyone who does not believe that Obama’s refusal to release his long form birth certificate and other relevant documentation of his life is puzzling to me.

35 posted on 02/20/2010 1:30:19 PM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: EnderWiggins
Well I had the chance to enjoy a beautiful afternoon and now I am back to address one more of EnderWiggins false statements. First I would like to encourage everyone to actually check out the assertions that EnderWiggins has made and the assertions that I have made as well. Unfortunately, it is difficult to keep up with all of EnderWiggins claims, because he just makes stuff up whatever whenever he finds himself in a corner.

In this post I would like to address the following claim, “The DSS has been subcontracting many if not most of these investigations to other organizations since 1974, when they first picked up the responsibility (but not the manpower) for performing them. The FBI is the primary organization performing the actual field interviews especially since they have the geographic infrastructure to do so and DSS does not.”

He made this statement after I challenged his assertion that the FBI grants nearly all military security clearances. This of course was wrong, but to dig himself out of this he now makes the equally absurd claim that yes the DSS is in charge of gathering the information but the FBI actually does all of the field work.

Actually, as stated on The DSS Website at
https://www.dss.mil/GW/ShowBinary/DSS/about_dss/history/about_dss_history.html

“The Defense Security Service (DSS), formerly known as the Defense Investigative Service (DIS) was established on January 1, 1972. DSS was created in response to President Richard M. Nixon's approval of proposals suggesting the reorganization of the national intelligence community and the creation of an “Office of Defense Investigation” to consolidate Department of Defense (DoD) personnel security investigations (PSI). Prior to this consolidation, such work was accomplished through U.S. military departments by four major DoD investigative agencies. They were: 1) the U.S. Army Intelligence Command, 2) the U.S. Army Criminal Investigative Command, 3) the Naval Investigative Service, and 4) the Office of Special Investigations, Air Force. Centralization of PSIs promised economic savings through better program management and more efficient use of resources.”

“Military departments were directed to transfer certain military and civilian manpower resources to DSS and on May 1, 1972, the agency took operational control of the National Agency Check (NAC) Center and the Defense Central Index of Investigations (DCII). On October 2, 1972, DSS became operational in all 50 states under the direction of Brigadier General Joseph Cappucci, former commander of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Formation of this new agency and the consolidation of the PSI process brought additional benefits to the final investigative product-uniformity, improved quality and timeliness.”

Somehow they forgot to mention their biggest subcontractor! If EnderWiggins has any source for his claim about the DSS subcontracting almost all of their background investigations to the FBI, I would certainly appreciate seeing a link to it.

Once again I challenge EnderWiggins to give a coherent explanation as to why he feels that the person occupying the most powerful post in the world should not be expected to provide the verifiable documents from his past including his school and passport records and his long form birth certificate. So far I can summarize his reasons as being because Obama might be able to get away without doing it, and also because other people might have been able to get away without doing it. It sounds more like the reasoning from a teenage boy than the reasoning of a 53 year old West Point Grad who was an officer and given custodial responsibility of nuclear warheads at age 21.

Once again we have put a guy in the most powerful office in the world who refuses to provide verifiable information about who he is. He has the power to destroy this country and the rest of the world and we don't really know who he is and even someone who sounds like a leftist teenager admits that he doesn't know if Obama could obtain even the most basic Security Clearance. This is absurd; I would never have believed it could be so until it actually happened.

39 posted on 02/20/2010 7:12:32 PM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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