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Do Walmart and others promote declining values?
TheCypressTimes.com ^ | 03/12/2010 | Ken Lowder

Posted on 03/12/2010 1:33:28 PM PST by Patriot1259

Do Walmart and other retailers support the destruction of American values through their lack of willingness to stop shoplifting? How much is their lack of enforcement costing you and me? The answer appears to be YES and it's costing us BILLIONS. Last year Walmart reported that they had lost $3 billion due to theft of products. That's just at Walmart. Most retailers reported losses in the same range for their market share. Given the poor economy I would expect this year's losses to be much higher.

How is this happening? Two reasons: 1. Once a shoplifter makes it outside, they are safe from store employees trying to detain them. 2. When was the last time they asked you for an ID when making a credit card purchase?

(Excerpt) Read more at thecypresstimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society
KEYWORDS: economy; shoplifting; values; walmart
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 03/12/2010 1:33:28 PM PST by Patriot1259
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To: Patriot1259

‘How much is their lack of enforcement costing you and me?”

I guarantee it costs less than it would to stop it. Perhaps they should save their outrage for the thieves.


2 posted on 03/12/2010 1:36:31 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Patriot1259

I can’t blame any non-security-related store employee for not going after a thief. There’s absolutely no justifiable reason to literally risk your life for that type of a job.


3 posted on 03/12/2010 1:38:54 PM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: Patriot1259

Talk about blaming the victim.


4 posted on 03/12/2010 1:39:12 PM PST by DManA
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To: Patriot1259

Where I live there are plenty of arrests and prosecutions for shoplifting at Wal-Mart. They have really good security.


5 posted on 03/12/2010 1:41:23 PM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: Patriot1259

” All she did was flip me off when I shouted, “Hey shoplifter, come back.”

Why didn’t the author run after the shoplifter and stop them? Maybe a good old citizen’s arrest? Duh....


6 posted on 03/12/2010 1:41:40 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Patriot1259

To #2: Every time I use one. Instead of signing the card, I write in “Ask 4 ID”.


7 posted on 03/12/2010 1:42:43 PM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Freepmail me to get on the Bourbon ping list.)
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To: Patriot1259
2. When was the last time they asked you for an ID when making a credit card purchase?

To find the answer we need only read two paragraphs down.

This was the first time that I had been asked for ID in a long time. I latter had to do it again at a t-shirt store! What's up with these small stores? Walmart, Target, and Home Depot in Hawaii never hassled me

The author complains about them not asking for ID and then complains when they do.

The Walmart I shop at asks for ID about one third of the time. The cash register asks at random and will not continue until the clerk has entered the DL# or a supervisor overrides it. The register also asks for an ID for all alcohol and tobaccos sales.

8 posted on 03/12/2010 1:46:45 PM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: Between the Lines

bad article.. it’s illegal per cc agreement to ask for ID. It’s not Walmart but the CC companies


9 posted on 03/12/2010 1:48:16 PM PST by GreaterSwiss
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To: Patriot1259
Have you ever been in a Walmart when they have a "code Adam" (missing child)? It is like a prison lock down.

Walmart has it's priorities straight.

10 posted on 03/12/2010 1:50:07 PM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: pnh102
You were saying ...

I can’t blame any non-security-related store employee for not going after a thief. There’s absolutely no justifiable reason to literally risk your life for that type of a job.

Quite right... LOL ...

Like someone working at Walmart is supposed to risk life and limb, just for the profits of Walmart, and/or some larger "social good" to come out of it... sure...

I'll reserve my actions for people who come into my own house without my permission..., not for Walmart.

11 posted on 03/12/2010 1:50:36 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel

Same here. I put “See ID” on the back of mine and those who look always ask.

I don’t think it’s a matter of store policies, I think that some of the cashiers just get lazy and make assumptions that the card is yours.


12 posted on 03/12/2010 1:51:20 PM PST by derekr44
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To: GreaterSwiss
You were saying ...

bad article.. it’s illegal per cc agreement to ask for ID. It’s not Walmart but the CC companies

Yep, and it's been that way for a long time, although some stores still try to do it, anyway. All you gotta do is tell them to bug off and call the credit card company. That should do it... :-)

13 posted on 03/12/2010 1:52:08 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Patriot1259
True story: I work part-time at a local Wal-Mart. I've been there about 5 years, working in the electronics dept., which is perhaps THE high-theft dept. in any Wal-Mart store. The first couple of years I worked there, theft was through the roof (and this is in a nice suburb, not some ghetto area). People walking out the front door with TV's and computers, etc. Many of these items were actually out on the shelves, rather than locked up or in the back room. Wal-Mart finally wised up and started locking things up or putting them in the backroom. Surprise, shrink dropped dramtically. Fast forward to just prior to Christmas, 2009. Wal-Mart suddently decides that it is a good idea to take the locking doors off of the video game cases, and instead place the games inside plastic cases that customers can simply grab from the case. Also, TV's and computers suddently re-emerge from the back room and back on the shelves. Surprise! Theft suddently rockets upward after a couple of years of progress in bringing the totals down.

Either the powers that be at WM are really dumb, or there are things happening behind the scenes that we don't know about (i.e. agitating by activists).

14 posted on 03/12/2010 1:54:00 PM PST by Major Matt Mason (ClimateScandal.org)
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To: derekr44
I don’t think it’s a matter of store policies

There's also a liability issue that they don't want to close to.

15 posted on 03/12/2010 1:56:12 PM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Freepmail me to get on the Bourbon ping list.)
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To: Patriot1259

We are asked for ID sometimes, but we usually shop at the same neighborhood Wal-Mart grocery store several times a week. The checkers all know us, so they override the register most of the time. One checker used to ask us every single time we saw her. It was always funny to me because it would be late at night when there were no other shoppers, and she would still ask for ID even though she recognized us. After about two months of this, she learned our names and all about our family, and she doesn’t ask for ID anymore.

At the same Wal-Mart grocery, we watched as the manager and a Hoss of a woman/worker tried to stop a shoplifter. We happened to have walked out just prior to this happening. They did manage to stop the guy, but he ran when he saw an opportunity. Hubby walked out right after this happened, so I saw it all. Hubby probably would have intervened if he had walked out first. Anywho, since that day, they have employed someone else to do the manhandling of shoplifters. He’s very good at his job. We don’t go to the big Wal-Mart that is down the street from the grocery store. I can’t imagine how much shoplifting goes on there on an hourly basis. (very close to Mexico. lots of car break-ins and purse-snatching goes on there.)


16 posted on 03/12/2010 1:56:47 PM PST by petitfour (Are you a Dead Fish American?)
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To: Patriot1259

I went to Walmart last weekend and bought a Blu Ray player. As I was leaving, the siren went off, lights started blinking, and the little old lady at the door started yelling “Sir, Sir”. Frankly, I just wasn’t in the mood to prove I had actually bought what I was carrying, so I just kept on walking. No one made any effort to stop, which was probably a good move on their part. Sometimes I don’t mind proving I’m not criminal, but sometimes I do.


17 posted on 03/12/2010 1:57:07 PM PST by suthener
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To: Patriot1259

When chased, the fleeing shoplifter sometimes whips out a used syringe and aims to stab the pursuer. That would put a damper on Kenny’s vigilantism real quick.

When shoplifting and security gets really bad, the store hires off-duty police. It’s the only security that the aggressive thieves really respect, as the ODP is armed and has arrest powers. Hourly pay for an ODP makes them the highest-paid help in the store.


18 posted on 03/12/2010 1:57:22 PM PST by Stalwart
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel; GreaterSwiss; Between the Lines; Patriot1259; derekr44
You were saying ...

To #2: Every time I use one. Instead of signing the card, I write in “Ask 4 ID”.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the kind of situation, with a credit card, where they can refuse to take it, if it's not signed. That's one where the credit card companies say to not take it.

Now, having said that, I've had my card not signed for a while, until someone "catches it" and then says that they can't take it. So, you will "get away with it" depending on how vigilant a store is. But, the rules are, if it's not signed, then the store is not supposed to take it.

Furthermore, you can't sign it "on the spot" either, you see... to "make it signed". They're still supposed to refuse it.

But, as I say, most employees don't care, it seems, so you could have a girls name and be a boy and they would take it anyway. In fact, you can sign any name you want on the slip and most of the time they'll take it, too.

I'm not saying how this sort of thing "works out in practice" -- what I'm saying is that if it's not signed, by the rules from the Credit Card companies, they are supposed to refuse it. But, heck, if you can sign Donald Duck and get the card through (which you can)... then it won't make too much difference for not having it signed, either.

On top of that, I'm willing to bet that even after they were to ask for I.D. they would still process the charge, even if it were a different name. (Believe it or not, I've done that myself, and it still went through -- I was using someone else's card and I showed them my I.D. and signed it my name, none of which matched the card... LOL...).

Bottom line -- most of the time, it makes absolutely no difference (in practice and in real life) what you do with the credit card.... :-)

19 posted on 03/12/2010 2:00:11 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel

Mine says C I D


20 posted on 03/12/2010 2:00:35 PM PST by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Patriot1259

After 20+ years in Retail and upper management, I can tell people that it is not an easy task at all to stop shoplifting and other forms of theft.

Many of these theives have this stuff down to an art. The ones that are “good” and are caught do not respond well to being stopped and many times have a crew with them. The one who do go along quietly, are not the major scoring thieves.

Compund this with the fact that many DA’s will not prosecute unless the thief has made it out the door (do to the fact that until they are out the door, they still have an opportunity to pay) and the whole thing is a huge mess.

And thats a problem at a 30K square foot store. I can not imagine what it is like at a Super Wal-Mart which is easily over 200K sqr/ft.

I best of luck to all who make the attempt.

b Cool,


21 posted on 03/12/2010 2:03:41 PM PST by b cool
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To: kalee
You were saying ...

Mine says C I D

Most clerks would think that's your name... LOL ... Besides that, you could sign it "Donald Duck" and they would take it anyway. Heck! I've signed different names and it still goes through. I've even just "squiggled" and it goes through, and I mean, just a "wavy line".... :-)

22 posted on 03/12/2010 2:05:18 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Major Matt Mason

Sitting outside the salon waiting for my daughter, I was surprised how many times the recording went off saying, “We’re sorry. . . etc.” as people waltzed out the door with carts full of who knows what. They were rarely stopped.


23 posted on 03/12/2010 2:07:51 PM PST by esquirette (If we do not know our own worldview, we will accept theirs.)
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To: Star Traveler
If I'm not mistaken, this is the kind of situation, with a credit card, where they can refuse to take it, if it's not signed.

That is governed only by store policy. They can refuse a signed card but they will lose a customer.

24 posted on 03/12/2010 2:08:57 PM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Freepmail me to get on the Bourbon ping list.)
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To: Patriot1259

“Do Walmart and others promote declining values?”

I don’t know about the shoplifting, but they support Obamacare and amnesty and other distasteful liberal notions, so the answer is yes.


25 posted on 03/12/2010 2:08:59 PM PST by AuntB (WE are NOT a nation of immigrants! We're a nation of Americans! http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/)
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To: Patriot1259

During busy times, the local Walmart has a big black guy checking receipts as customers leave the store. As opposed to a little old lady - I’m sure the choice is deliberate.

There was an article back around Christmas about an incident at a Walmart with a receipt check, and a customer objecting, and things got physical.

I believe a lot of Freepers shared the customer’s objection to being treated as a potential thief.


26 posted on 03/12/2010 2:09:08 PM PST by heartwood
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To: pnh102

Not to mention the lawsuit losses to the lawyers that hang around the thieves.


27 posted on 03/12/2010 2:09:41 PM PST by arthurus ("If you don't believe in shooting abortionists, don't shoot an abortionist." -Ann C.)
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To: suthener
You were saying ...

As I was leaving, the siren went off, lights started blinking, and the little old lady at the door started yelling “Sir, Sir”. Frankly, I just wasn’t in the mood to prove I had actually bought what I was carrying, so I just kept on walking.

Likewise for me... I've had those lights and sirens go off too and I never stop... it never makes any difference.

Heck! One time I found out that what was making those things go off was a package that I had in a back-pack that I was carrying, which was some #2 pencils... and I was carrying it around. Everytime I would go through one of those things it would go off. When I found the package and threw it away (kept the pencils, of course...), then those things stopped going off immediately.

The funny thing is that it would go off when I was "walking in" the store, too... which is kinda weird. And so, one time when it went off when going into the store, I decided to do something about it and found the package and took it out and threw it away and went back through again, and it didn't go off.

I would say that most of the time all these alarms are always false alarms for people.

28 posted on 03/12/2010 2:11:11 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel
You were saying ...

They can refuse a signed card but they will lose a customer.

Well, that might be so, but I was talking about a "non-signed card" ... :-)

29 posted on 03/12/2010 2:12:56 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: esquirette
You were saying ...

They were rarely stopped.

Those things are a joke with employees... LOL... I've seen employees "wave people on" when those things go off, and they're "waving them on" from about 25 feet away... :-)

30 posted on 03/12/2010 2:15:13 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Patriot1259

I remembered Service Merchandise many years ago. All of the items on display were in locked clear plastic cabinets. You grabbed a ticket for the particular item, go pay for it and collect it at the pickup door. I bet their theft was low. I think also they are out of business.


31 posted on 03/12/2010 2:17:00 PM PST by CORedneck
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To: CORedneck
You were saying ...

All of the items on display were in locked clear plastic cabinets.

LOL.... that would be some sort of store... all right.

I know what I would do in that store. I would walk in, and grab an employee and say, "Follow me around, because I'm going to have you unlocking a lot of cabinets for me, so I can look at things."

And then, I would buy a #2 pencil and leave, after about 30 minutes of them unlocking and locking. Hey! "looking around" is what a shopper can do and if the shopper wants to handle the merchandise, they should be able to.

32 posted on 03/12/2010 2:23:27 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: DManA
Talk about blaming the victim.

Yeah, this article is a biiiiiig stretch. I don't like the policy, but it's probably designed to head off the tort lawyers and their profit-killing lawsuits. They're the ones the author should be whining about.

33 posted on 03/12/2010 2:24:43 PM PST by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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To: CORedneck

They probably had too many customers that think like me. I won’t buy non-PC video game supplies from Target because they have everything behind lock and key (including $15 PSP carrying cases) and the Best Buy 2 miles away doesn’t. That whole “must get permission” lockup thing irritates me and I don’t buy anything that has that setup unless the price and size seem to really justify it.


34 posted on 03/12/2010 2:28:42 PM PST by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: derekr44

When I read this, I wondered why they never asked to see mine. Then little ole me realized I never use a card! LOL.


35 posted on 03/12/2010 2:29:31 PM PST by MamaB (If you see someone without a smile, give them yours.)
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To: Patriot1259
Wal-Mart has Rules of Engagement (ROE) when it comes to apprehending a shoplifter just as our Troops are hindered with ROE. I don't like but it is how things are.

First an employee has to actually see the person take and hide the item.

Next they then have to follow that person through the store to make sure the item is still on the perp and not dropped.

They have to watch them go through the register and not pay.

At that point the perp can be confronted even before they leave the store. At this point the store's security person should be onto the perp also, through code and what ever signals the employee is trained to use.

The problem here is that the employee is risking their job if it turns out they are wrong!

36 posted on 03/12/2010 2:31:29 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Patriot1259

My wife was a greeter at the Perry,Georgia Wal-Mart for 31/2 years and got an overdose of abusive customers and non-supportive managers. I’m glad she quit,even though having another income in the house was nice. It just wasn’t worth it.


37 posted on 03/12/2010 2:54:05 PM PST by liberalism is suicide (Communism,fascism-no matter how you slice socialism, its still baloney)
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To: Star Traveler
Bottom line -- most of the time, it makes absolutely no difference (in practice and in real life) what you do with the credit card.... :-)

Of course it does. If you're a thief, it makes you less likely to try to use the stolen card at a retail outlet. That's the whole point.

38 posted on 03/12/2010 6:58:22 PM PST by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel
To #2: Every time I use one. Instead of signing the card, I write in “Ask 4 ID”.

Me too. And if a waiter or waitress fails to ask for ID, I dock their tip.

Although lately, I get cash before going to restaurants. I don't trust them going in the back with my card. My parents recently had a bunch of charges on their card shortly after visiting some Crab Shack short of place in Fort Myers. It only got noticed by security because they were in another state using the real card at the time. Seems to be some card cloning operations going on.

39 posted on 03/12/2010 7:01:17 PM PST by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: discostu
Target because they have everything behind lock and key

Your local Walgreen's will sometimes have the darndest things locked up; usually having to to with illicit drug users and their paraphernalia, I think.

40 posted on 03/12/2010 7:05:13 PM PST by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: Minn
You were saying ...

Of course it does. If you're a thief, it makes you less likely to try to use the stolen card at a retail outlet. That's the whole point.

You miss the point of what I wrote in that previous post that you're responding to. I'm saying that "in practice" -- in the ways things are right now, and from what I've seen (directly myself) -- it makes no difference at all (at that point in time of using it).

Now..., where it will make a difference, if you're a crook and use it illegally, then you'll have the bank, the cops, investigators and the legal system after you. So, I'm not saying that using it illegally is not a problem at all... what I'm saying is that these things about signing it, what your signature shows, about I.D. -- all that really makes no difference at all -- in how people use their cards, everyday.

They can sign the cards with just one line, a straight line and they'll take it. You can sign it with a wavy line. And also, try signing it sometime with a different name... you'll never get anyone bothering you with that.

And as for I.D., they're not supposed to take I.D. and if someone asks me for I.D., I'll tell them that, too and I'll complain to the credit card company and report that company for doing it.

Again, as I was saying, it makes no difference because you can practically do anything with the credit card, as far as how the companies now treat it.

41 posted on 03/12/2010 7:18:19 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: GreaterSwiss; Cletus.D.Yokel

Wrong. We are required to ask for ID no matter if your card is signed or not. And we can be disciplined for not asking, especially if that sucker turns out to be stolen. Also If your card is stolen and somehow recovered by the credit card company and you have not signed it...YOU are liable for all charges. Read your contract. I sign my name and write See ID on my cards but most people don’t even look at my ID when I hand it to them with the card.


42 posted on 03/12/2010 8:01:12 PM PST by mom aka the evil dictator
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To: Star Traveler

Please come in and report the Federal Government when we ask for your ID. I get tired of stupid people who never have there ID on them.


43 posted on 03/12/2010 8:10:05 PM PST by mom aka the evil dictator
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To: mom aka the evil dictator
You were saying ...

Please come in and report the Federal Government when we ask for your ID. I get tired of stupid people who never have there ID on them.

I always have my I.D. on me, but I know I don't have to show it when using the credit card, and I won't show it... :-) ...

That's per the credit card companies rules and regulations. Now, that doesn't stop some stupid stores from making it some kind of policy in their stores and telling their employees that they need to request it, but I'll go to the manager and make them call the credit card company and per the agreement with the credit card company (if the store still wants to keep that credit card usage) they will tell the store to stop asking for I.D.

I've never been absolutely required to show it and I've gone to managers and I've reported stores, too... :-)

44 posted on 03/12/2010 8:42:45 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
You miss the point

I'm a world class point misser.

45 posted on 03/12/2010 9:04:34 PM PST by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: Star Traveler

Then I would be required to ask you for another form of payment. We are required to ask for your ID. Headquarters sends us a memo about 4 times a year that we all have to sign acknowledging we have read and understand. And the memo says that the credit card companies require us to do this. Like I said, come in and please report us. I sure won’t get fired. My manager will just read you the party line and good luck with Washington DC. Course knowing the government we probably have special rules.


46 posted on 03/12/2010 9:09:39 PM PST by mom aka the evil dictator
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To: mom aka the evil dictator

The manager wouldn’t be talking to Washington DC, but to the credit card company, as I would be the one reporting the store for violation of the agreement with the credit card company. Believe me, that works every time... :-)


47 posted on 03/12/2010 9:33:18 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: suthener
I used to cooperate with those stupid door checks, until I had a pair of thugs who were insistent that I accompany them to the back room as opposed to simply reviewing my receipt where I stood.

I refused, at which point they got physical attempting to restrain me at which time I advised them I was carrying a concealed handgun, the situation went downhill from there.

Now I just ignore them, confront me in the parking lot at your risk.

48 posted on 03/12/2010 10:22:41 PM PST by WalterSobchak2012
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To: Minn

A lot of the lock and key stuff at drug stores is tied to pseudo-ephedrine, which the government decided was too easy to turn into meth so they put a limit on how much people can buy, which means of course all purchases must be tracked. I hope the pinheads who came up with that plan develop horrible allergies, it’s really annoying knowing that if my nose runs too much the DEA will kick my door in.


49 posted on 03/13/2010 7:27:31 AM PST by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: Star Traveler

Please call your credit card company and tell them that the Federal government requires you to show ID. I am not arguing with you that you have done it many times. I am just saying we are required to check your ID and I am sure the credit card company will not be wanting to lose our business. We just tell customers, “Sorry, you must show ID or produce another form of payment. If you don’t, we cannot sell to you.”


50 posted on 03/13/2010 9:13:41 AM PST by mom aka the evil dictator
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