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A Proposal for Peaceful Separation
View from The Right ^ | April 7, 2010 | Jeffersonian

Posted on 04/08/2010 10:38:04 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot

A proposal to divide the United States into two countries

I post this article with a sense of ambivalence, since, notwithstanding the author's boldness and originality of thought, his proposal presents grave practical difficulties which in my view he deals with only superficially. However, as I myself have said, with the passage of the health care bill America has now become in effect two mutually irreconcilable peoples (they want to impose unlimited state power on us, which we don't want to be imposed), and the only two logical resolutions to the conflict are that one side crush and dominate the other, or that the two sides go their separate ways. There is no escape from thinking our way through the current crisis, and we have to start somewhere. Jeffersonian's article is a useful contribution to that effort. (Readers' comments on the article begin here.)

THE REDS AND THE BLUES: TIME FOR A DIVORCE? By Jeffersonian

In the aftermath of the presidential election of 2000, a newspaper published a map of the United States in which the counties that had voted for George W. Bush were colored red, and those that had voted for Al Gore were colored blue. The result was striking: The blue counties made up only a small fraction of the area of the United States, but included roughly half of the total population. Outside the Northeast, the map consisted mostly of a large expanse of red, interrupted by geographically small, but densely populated, urban areas. (Note that even though the original map showed the country divided into counties, it has given rise to the terms "red states" and "blue states." Note also, that the term "Red" in this context has no implication of Communist sympathies. )

In recent weeks there has been a furor over the health care bill. This is partly because its opponents feel that it is an extremely bad bill: one which will not improve their health care, but instead add enormously to the public debt. Even more disturbing than the contents of the bill, however, is the fact that it was passed despite the clear opposition of the American public. Every national poll for months had shown that a significant majority of the public did not like this bill; and in the weeks preceding the vote, Congress had been besieged by letters, emails, faxes, and telephone calls from constituents, with the great majority opposing the bill. Those who urged congressmen to vote for the bill did not pretend that the majority of the public was on their side; rather, they urged congressmen to be "courageous" and ignore public opinion.

They claimed (correctly) that doing so did not violate the Constitution. However, it did violate our traditions on the relation of the government to the governed. This is the first time in American history that a major bill has been forced through over the clear opposition of the public. Even if the law itself is beneficial, the manner of its passage was semi-tyrannical, and the social fabric has been badly torn.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: blues; irreconcilable; peoples; reds
You know, several countries now exist with what are loosely called 'autonomous regions' within them. Obviously, one of the problems here is the lack of geographical continuity of red and blue. Each has glaring zones of the other within its bulk. I cannot see how little pieces of one country can exist within another - the different laws, monetary systems, immigration rules, border issues etc. are just mind-boggling. The population is almost perfectly evenly split by the numbers. Kansas solid red, the norther half of Illiniois solid blue and the southern half solid red. There's no getting around it - people would just have to move to escape the country they could not stand. Red rural areas in heavily populated blue states, especially in the north, would face the same problem. Huge black urban areas in the South are blue zones surrounded by hundreds of miles of red - Birmingham, Atlanta, Little Rock, Dallas, New Orleans... Then you have Oklahoma, probably the most homogeneous red state in the country along with perhaps Utah. Watch Oklahoma - we did it anyway! And north and eastern Oklahoma are beautiful!

One of the commentors was very astute. He wondered what would happen to the white blues when they no longer had the conservative reds within their nation to blame for the ills of their country - racism, wars, poverty, budgetary shortfalls, etc. We currently serve as a buffer and a scapegoat for the liberal white blues. Not to mention the fact that we largely fund the country with our work ethic. Without us, they would have to face an equal number of non-whites in their country who would inevitably become very angry and disgruntled with the state of affairs in a truly liberal blue America. Let's face it - their economy would be in a total shambles in no time. It already IS even with us contributing to it!

I have no workable answers, but I do think some kind of political breakup will come upon us at some point in the next decade. I just hope it is largely bloodless.

1 posted on 04/08/2010 10:38:04 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot
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To: Neoliberalnot

Mark for later.


2 posted on 04/08/2010 10:41:33 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name now that we have the most conservative government in the world?)
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To: Neoliberalnot
Didn't we try something like this in 1862, and we all know how this turned out.
3 posted on 04/08/2010 10:41:58 AM PDT by ANGGAPO (Leyte Gulf Beach Club)
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To: Neoliberalnot

IAM-CR: A FREEREPUBLIC ALLIANCE EFFORT
TO RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION

4 posted on 04/08/2010 10:43:30 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: ANGGAPO

I am actually starting to believe that is what we need to do. We are so divided and it is getting worse. I would be all for dividing the country, north and south. North to the libs and south to the conservatives. And we get to keep the military. North gets Obama.


5 posted on 04/08/2010 10:44:14 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Soap box.

Ballot box.

Jury box.

Ammo box.

Each in its own turn. We have a couple more tries.


6 posted on 04/08/2010 10:45:36 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (A MAJORITY (51%) OF TEA PARTIERS ARE DEMOCRATS OR INDEPENDENTS - GALLUP)
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To: Neoliberalnot

Saw somebody make the astute point (regarding this sort of separation idea) that unfortunately the parasites aren’t going to let the hosts leave peaceably. I’d love to move somewhere where those of us willing to pull the cart instead of ride it could congregate. Galt’s Gulch, perhaps.


7 posted on 04/08/2010 10:46:25 AM PDT by rockvillem
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To: ANGGAPO

It is a completely different story this time. The slaves are not slaves of color. They are the slaves of honesty and an ethic for hard work and freedom of the most basic sort.


8 posted on 04/08/2010 10:46:48 AM PDT by Gaffer ("Profling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Neoliberalnot
This will never work.

The Have-nots are dependant on the Haves for money, and the Goverment depends on the Have-nots for votes. Therefore, the Goverment will never let the Haves leave peacefully.

This was seen in the Civil War. The northern states depended on the southern argri-business. So, they could not let them just leave over state's rights. The issue of slavery, which needed to be addressed, was not attached to the CW until after it had begun.

9 posted on 04/08/2010 10:47:57 AM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: Neoliberalnot

The left isn’t going to let us go.

They need our money too badly.


10 posted on 04/08/2010 10:48:41 AM PDT by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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To: ilovesarah2012
I do think some kind of political breakup will come upon us at some point in the next decade. I just hope it is largely bloodless.

Define largely.

11 posted on 04/08/2010 10:48:50 AM PDT by JimRed (To water the Tree of Liberty is to excise a cancer before it kills us. TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: ANGGAPO

We might have to try it again... or live in servitude.

It would be better if we could demand Constitutional government based on Federalism because that is the key to keeping such a diverse set of people under the same federal government. The other option is through blunt force... so, if we can’t use states to force the feds to back off, the only option left is to say “see ya!”.a

Sorry, to all the “win in 2010” people... but there’s just too big of a mess in D.C. for that to be even moderately successful. States must reign in the beast, or must get the hell out.


12 posted on 04/08/2010 10:49:26 AM PDT by Pantera
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To: JimRed

I didn’t post that. At this point I just want to separate from liberals.


13 posted on 04/08/2010 10:50:00 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: 5thGenTexan

I agree with your analysis. However, there are plenty of “Haves” in NY and CA for them to continue to extort.

Let the rest of us (Mountains and the South) seperate.


15 posted on 04/08/2010 10:51:33 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: ilovesarah2012
I didn’t post that.

Sorry, that was aimed at the author, not at you!

16 posted on 04/08/2010 10:54:54 AM PDT by JimRed (To water the Tree of Liberty is to excise a cancer before it kills us. TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Neoliberalnot
If it comes to that we should seek to have the devide be along county lines and not state lines to the extent possible. They'd want land corridors to connect the pieces of whatever they end up with while we'd need at least one major left coast port city.

At this point, some sort of a credible threat of succession needs to be on the table just to get the animals' attention and get their minds focused.

17 posted on 04/08/2010 10:57:17 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: 5thGenTexan; ANGGAPO

This is not hopeless.

Study what Quebec did in Canada for many years - just the threat of separation can used to extract an endless stream of concessions! Especially when the non-productive Blue states will be desperate for the Red states’ cash, the bribes should be easy.

And then in the end, you can still separate, but you need those years of preparing the public’s expectations first.


18 posted on 04/08/2010 11:07:03 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: Former Proud Canadian
Here's your proposal: starve the monkeys. War with monkey collectivists is inevitable, as they will come for what we have when we deny it to them.
19 posted on 04/08/2010 11:07:46 AM PDT by Noumenon ("Upon what meat doth this our Caesar feed, that he has grown so great?" - Julius Caesar)
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To: Gaffer
It is a completely different story this time. The slaves are not slaves of color.

Just in case you may not have noticed, everybody has color. Whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc., all have color.

20 posted on 04/08/2010 11:10:48 AM PDT by Isabel C.
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To: Neoliberalnot

Judge Napolitano answered what needs to be done last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b3Q89FZoY0


21 posted on 04/08/2010 11:11:27 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: Isabel C.

You know what I was talking about.


22 posted on 04/08/2010 11:15:13 AM PDT by Gaffer ("Profling: The only profile I need is a chalk outline around their dead ass!")
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To: Neoliberalnot

Watching a major party (now in power) openly cheering our soldiers’ deaths in Iraq was enough for me to support separation. How to do it should be an ongoing conversation. We don’t share the same basic values as those people.


23 posted on 04/08/2010 11:15:32 AM PDT by ccruse456
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To: ANGGAPO

Didn’t we try something like this in 1862, and we all know how this turned out.””

This is exactly the hope of all tyrannists—it can never happen here because it failed once. The Revolutionary War Soldiers tried it too.


24 posted on 04/08/2010 11:46:43 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: Jeff Head

There will be no return to the Constitution. It has been perverted and mangled and used against a free people to put us in the chains which now strangle us.


25 posted on 04/08/2010 11:48:08 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: Gaffer

WE are the slaves of honesty and an ethic for hard work and freedom of the most basic sort.””


26 posted on 04/08/2010 11:49:25 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: JimRed

<50,000.


27 posted on 04/08/2010 11:51:29 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: Tzimisce

They desire controlling us far more than our wealth. I don’t think they even realize who’s paying the bills.


28 posted on 04/08/2010 11:52:33 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: ccruse456

“Any elected or appointed public official in any branch of the Federal government who is found guilty of official conduct contrary to the Constitution shall be guilty of treason.”

And the new last amendment: “The sole punishment for treason is public hanging.”

Now I know this seems harsh at first blush. But it’s critical that we deter the kind of inexcusable behavior that got us into our current mess in the first place. And it sort of puts some teeth behind the oath of office to obey the Constitution, which many current politicians tell us is only “ceremonial” to them. Well, to them I say a hanging is kind of a ceremony too. I just have come to believe in my advancing age that an ounce or two of ‘strong correction’ is both more effective and a lot more humane in the long run than a ton of half-measures. Anyway, that philosophy sure works for training a stubborn dog to heel, so it should work for any politician looking to feed at the public trough and hold office forever while running roughshod over our most sacred governing document. I’m certain we wouldn’t have to stretch too much rope in order to get the point across. And I am convinced it would strongly dissuade those interested only in feathering their nests by seeking public office and would sufficiently motivate any who do attain office to carefully read all of the bills they want to pass for any potential “irregularities” regarding the Constitution… We’d get some public servants stepping forward instead of public savagers and scavengers.


29 posted on 04/08/2010 12:01:10 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: Jeff Head

“Any elected or appointed public official in any branch of the Federal government who is found guilty of official conduct contrary to the Constitution shall be guilty of treason.”

And the new last amendment: “The sole punishment for treason is public hanging.”

Now I know this seems harsh at first blush. But it’s critical that we deter the kind of inexcusable behavior that got us into our current mess in the first place. And it sort of puts some teeth behind the oath of office to obey the Constitution, which many current politicians tell us is only “ceremonial” to them. Well, to them I say a hanging is kind of a ceremony too. I just have come to believe in my advancing age that an ounce or two of ‘strong correction’ is both more effective and a lot more humane in the long run than a ton of half-measures. Anyway, that philosophy sure works for training a stubborn dog to heel, so it should work for any politician looking to feed at the public trough and hold office forever while running roughshod over our most sacred governing document. I’m certain we wouldn’t have to stretch too much rope in order to get the point across. And I am convinced it would strongly dissuade those interested only in feathering their nests by seeking public office and would sufficiently motivate any who do attain office to carefully read all of the bills they want to pass for any potential “irregularities” regarding the Constitution… We’d get some public servants stepping forward instead of public savagers and scavengers.


30 posted on 04/08/2010 12:01:54 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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To: ccruse456

Who elected the Democrats/Communists? We the People. We fell for their slick talk and for the most part they have kept their liberal ideas turned down low. Look at Clinton—he reformed welfare and Balanced the budget (He didn’t need to but he did) Only this time the inexperienced Obama is showing his leftist leanings and jamming it down the throats of the people. He’s a figurehead for George Soros—who needs to be deported to Russia. We have the power of the majority on our side. We must block their slick political moves with the truth. Would that we had a Reagan to remind the sheeple that they have been betrayed—We have Sarah Palin—but with her honesty and simple talk she can un-mask the left. She is doing the Lords Work at this time of travail. She isn’t perfect—so too was Reagan, but, she’s the best we have now. Lets hope someone comes forth to lead the movement. I trust to a divine providence that person will come forth.


31 posted on 04/08/2010 12:50:35 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Noumenon

Here’s your proposal: starve the monkeys. War with monkey collectivists is inevitable, as they will come for what we have when we deny it to them.””

Starve the Monkeys site is a good one. Thanks for spreading the info source.


32 posted on 04/08/2010 1:53:30 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Read "The Grey Book" for an alternative to corruption in DC))
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