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Does The U.S. Need To Split?
84rules News & Commentary Blog ^ | April 9, 2010 | 84rules

Posted on 04/09/2010 9:58:57 AM PDT by 84rules

Many of us out in the blogosphere have been pondering this question for over a year. Imagine our surprise to find an article by Dr. Walter Williams that actually took on the issue!

Does The U.S. Need To Split?
84rules
April 9, 2010


TOPICS: Government; History; Miscellaneous; Politics
KEYWORDS: secede; sovereignty; states; williams
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If a split does occur, I would blame the Republicans for it just as much as the Democrats. The GOP lost sight of its own Conservative foundations and opened the door for this whole thing.
1 posted on 04/09/2010 9:58:57 AM PDT by 84rules
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To: 84rules

Unless the country suddenly reverts back to what it is supposed to be - a federation of soverign states - I think a split may be necessary.


2 posted on 04/09/2010 10:01:47 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: 84rules

If we could get 2/3 of the states together, they could simply abolish the federal government in it’s current form... and start over.


3 posted on 04/09/2010 10:03:58 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: Retired Greyhound; 84rules
This is the most dangerous of questions and should not be considered ... even academicaly.

You may as well ask if your mother knows you _______________ (fill in the blank with whatever is most disgusting to you)

I'll hit abuse for the first time in my FR life on THIS one.

4 posted on 04/09/2010 10:06:26 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: 84rules

Interesting. If a split does occur, 0bama will have his Abraham Lincoln moment once again.


5 posted on 04/09/2010 10:06:38 AM PDT by Jagdgewehr (Gun, Bible, Gadsden Flag...the definition of a hater and far right-wing extremist)
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To: Retired Greyhound
Unless the country suddenly reverts back to what it is supposed to be - a federation of soverign states - I think a split may be necessary.

In the discussion the other day, I was seeing a lot more acceptance of the idea than what there was a year ago.

6 posted on 04/09/2010 10:08:07 AM PDT by Wissa ("So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."-Padme Amidala)
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To: 84rules

Yes - all Democrats should be sent to California - the rest of us conservatives can go about on re-building the Republic! In time, CA will drop off into the ocean -


7 posted on 04/09/2010 10:08:38 AM PDT by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com)
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To: knarf
This is the most dangerous of questions and should not be considered ... even academicaly.

Walter Williams disagrees with you.

8 posted on 04/09/2010 10:10:11 AM PDT by workerbee (Yes, I hate Obama because of his color: RED!)
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To: Retired Greyhound

Unfortunately, one of the proposed solutions — the amicable split — is impossible, because the Left knows there is no “them” without “our” money, labor and resources.


9 posted on 04/09/2010 10:11:36 AM PDT by workerbee (Yes, I hate Obama because of his color: RED!)
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To: 84rules

If a split does occur, I would blame the Republicans for it just as much as the Democrats. The GOP lost sight of its own Conservative foundations and opened the door for this whole thing.

1 posted on Friday, April 09, 2010 12:58:57 PM by 84rules


Wasn’t that the whole point to posting this crap???? To blame Republicans...


10 posted on 04/09/2010 10:11:45 AM PDT by Freddd (CNN is down to Three Hundred Thousand viewers. But they worked for it.)
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To: knarf
This is the most dangerous of questions and should not be considered ... even academicaly.

I would say the same thing about passing a socialized health care package. And yet, we all watched it happen.

And why the attempt at censorship? There is no abuse here. Only an honest question being pondered based on the facts of current events.
11 posted on 04/09/2010 10:12:16 AM PDT by 84rules ( Ooh-Rah! Semper Fi!)
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To: 84rules

A split, the balkanization of the republic, will destroy any credible military capability we have, will seriously damage our economy, and will lead to the destruction of our infrastructure. The Federal Government, in its current form (by that I mean size and scope) was never meant to exist. Only the laziness of a large part of the citizenry permits it to this day.


12 posted on 04/09/2010 10:13:28 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Freddd
Wasn’t that the whole point to posting this crap???? To blame Republicans...

No. It was to stimulate debate about a tpoic that was taboo one year ago but is now coming to the forefront.
13 posted on 04/09/2010 10:14:09 AM PDT by 84rules ( Ooh-Rah! Semper Fi!)
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To: knarf
So you prefer tyranny over freedom?
14 posted on 04/09/2010 10:14:30 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Smokin' Joe
0 intends to destroy the military, wreck the economy and is already destroying the infrastructure. So why not take a chance on freedom
15 posted on 04/09/2010 10:16:01 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Smokin' Joe
A split, the balkanization of the republic, will destroy any credible military capability we have

Some would argue that policies of Obama and the Democrats have already destroyed any credible military capability that we have.
16 posted on 04/09/2010 10:16:11 AM PDT by 84rules ( Ooh-Rah! Semper Fi!)
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To: workerbee
Unfortunately, one of the proposed solutions — the amicable split — is impossible, because the Left knows there is no “them” without “our” money, labor and resources.

Don't be so sure. I think many on the left would view North Korea as the ideal... where ALL live in equal misery. They might welcome the opportunity to implement their plans in their portion of the country where they won't have people fighting back against them.

17 posted on 04/09/2010 10:16:30 AM PDT by Wissa ("So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."-Padme Amidala)
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To: 84rules

I eagerly support a breakup. Co-existence with the Left is not possible. The federal government is tainted and cannot be fixed. The separate states need to reassert themselves.


18 posted on 04/09/2010 10:16:46 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Retired Greyhound

[I think a split may be necessary.]

The Tea Party movement may be a model, a party without being a Party. Maybe there is a way to be a secession without being a Secession - that is by walling off states and communities from the mess. Does a state Have to enforce unconstitutional infringement? Marijuana comes to mind, it is pretty much ignored.


19 posted on 04/09/2010 10:17:23 AM PDT by DaxtonBrown (HARRY: Money Mob & Influence (book on amazon written by me!))
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To: knarf

WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What’s he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark’d to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God’s will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God’s peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man’s company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call’d the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam’d,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say ‘To-morrow is Saint Crispian.’
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say ‘These wounds I had on Crispian’s day.’
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he’ll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb’red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.


20 posted on 04/09/2010 10:18:09 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: 84rules

If it does, we get to keep The Constitution and the Founding Fathers.

They can have Marin County.


21 posted on 04/09/2010 10:18:12 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Safrguns

“If we could get 2/3 of the states together”

That’s what we need to work toward. But not to abolish the fed gov. and start over. We just need to reaffirm our founding documents.


22 posted on 04/09/2010 10:19:53 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (To argue witha person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead)
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To: workerbee

“This is the most dangerous of questions and should not be considered ... even academicaly.”

“Walter Williams disagrees with you.”

So do I. I meet a LOT of people who are near tears, thinking the country is being led to destruction. Are we going to going to shut up and be led away by Communists? Not me. We had better talk, debate, consider, vote and even fight if that is what it takes to prevent a Communist takeover of this country. I have nowhere else to run; I’ll die here.


23 posted on 04/09/2010 10:20:19 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: TomGuy
If it does, we get to keep The Constitution and the Founding Fathers.

Both parts could have essentailly the same Constitution. The difference is that in the Conservative area, it would be followed, and in the Liberal area, it would be ignored.... just like today.

24 posted on 04/09/2010 10:21:05 AM PDT by Wissa ("So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."-Padme Amidala)
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To: Jagdgewehr

Actually it will be the opposite of Lincoln’s moment.

Lincoln wanted to preserve the union, wanted the country to stay together.

Obama I believe wants this country to fall apart.

Lincoln wanted to free the slaves from slaveowners. Obama and the dems are the slave-owners of the producers (53% of us) and legally robbing us to prop up their voting and dependency bases, that in return vote them in and only praise THEM for taking stuff from us. Obama doesn’t want the slavery to end. He wants all of us to eventually be slaves, once he’s taken all the money from the producers.


25 posted on 04/09/2010 10:25:22 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: knarf

Good thing our Founding Fathers didn’t have your attitude.


26 posted on 04/09/2010 10:25:25 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: Wissa
They might welcome the opportunity to implement their plans in their portion of the country where they won't have people fighting back against them.

Part of the gratification the Left has is the fact that we are fighting. They want us crushed and demoralized. They like seeing us lose. Most everything they're doing is designed to piss off the right/conservatives. I actually do believe they're salivating for a "first shot" in order to have an excuse to do something like martial law.

27 posted on 04/09/2010 10:25:55 AM PDT by workerbee (Yes, I hate Obama because of his color: RED!)
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To: Retired Greyhound

I would love to see the split in my lifetime. I don’t see any other way.


28 posted on 04/09/2010 10:27:10 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: 84rules

To paraphrase the great Peter Clemeza concerning the left:

‘These things gotta happen every 100 years or so, . Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been 140 years since the last one. You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble.’


29 posted on 04/09/2010 10:28:04 AM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: knarf

The Scientific Method always starts with, “Challenge Basic Assumptions.”


30 posted on 04/09/2010 10:29:23 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union. Then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
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To: knarf
No, I disagree. I believe that the more dangerous course would be to not discuss it and be unprepared for it if/when it happens. I think this is precisely what needs to be considered now. I personally do not see the country ever getting back to a constitutional government. Even the great Ronald Reagan could not eliminate even one useless government department despite his pledge to do so. You think Obamacare will be repealed? I do not. Name for me one socialist program that has been eliminated or even rolled back once enacted. I may be wrong but I believe that reality will force a split as the productive minority gets taxed more and more to provide bennies for the permanent welfare class. At some point productive folks will say enough is enough and demand a split. I think it is prudent and wise to discuss the implications of a split before it occurs.
31 posted on 04/09/2010 10:30:04 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: workerbee

“They” would still have the wealthy tax payers of NY, CA, MA, CT, etc., at least until they flee to the seceded states.


32 posted on 04/09/2010 10:30:05 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: mad_as_he$$
A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Do you think for a moment that the selfsame Socialists who are looting this nation will let large parts of it simply walk away? Especially large, productive parts?

They have the mandates and the parasites, they aren't going to let the means of production quietly walk off.

The ensuing war (yes, war, this has been tried before) would be all the reason the UN would need to impose international peacekeepers on the US, who would be welcomed by the Global Socialists, and who would have no compunctions about killing and looting here.

No, the end of that road is a dark and ugly place, not just for America, but for the world.

If there is to be a fight, it is for all of us, together, to reinstate our Constitutional Republic, and not to break it up, and preferably without having to resort to violence.

33 posted on 04/09/2010 10:31:01 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: DaxtonBrown
Maybe there is a way to be a secession without being a Secession

Reasserting State's Rights via the Tenth Amendment comes to mind.

34 posted on 04/09/2010 10:31:58 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: ilovesarah2012
I won’t permit my homeland to be marxist/communist/socialist. It is not the American way. That might include supporting secession. It looks more likely with each passing day.
35 posted on 04/09/2010 10:35:00 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, telling it straight since AD 33)
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To: Smokin' Joe

So what’s left? Knuckle under to tyranny? We will never get it back with elections.


36 posted on 04/09/2010 10:35:06 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: vanilla swirl
“If we could get 2/3 of the states together” That’s what we need to work toward. But not to abolish the fed gov. and start over. We just need to reaffirm our founding documents.

In 1994-1996 there was a big swing to the right. In 2006-2008 there was a big swing to the left.

The country is too divided equally with opposing views to ever get 2/3 of the people to agree on one approach or the other unless its physically divided. Then one area will be populated with 3/4 of the population holding one philosophy (Conservative) and the other will be populated with 3/4 of the population holding the opposite philosophy (Liberal).

What we have now is a bad marraige where both sides are just fighting against each other and neither side can win.

37 posted on 04/09/2010 10:36:14 AM PDT by Wissa ("So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."-Padme Amidala)
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To: Smokin' Joe

UN peace keepers would be slaughtered by the people. What needs to happen is the destrucion of progressivism, to do this we need an unbiased media. The problem in America is the MSM, it needs to be revitalized.


38 posted on 04/09/2010 10:36:59 AM PDT by east1234 (It's the borders stupid! My new environmentalist inspired tagline: cut, kill, dig and drill)
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To: firebasecody

Unfortunately, you are right. I fear for the future of America. I have never in my 57 years feared for the future of my country. I don’t know if America can survive 3 more years of Obama. Sometimes I really believe he is God’s punishment on us.


39 posted on 04/09/2010 10:37:46 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: Smokin' Joe
If there is to be a fight, it is for all of us, together, to reinstate our Constitutional Republic, and not to break it up, and preferably without having to resort to violence.

See #9.

I don't know who you mean by "us", Joe. We (here) are, and have tried, to hang onto the constitutional way. Those on the other side of that fence don't want it. I just don't know how we get there, from where we are now. I think elections are forever tainted.

40 posted on 04/09/2010 10:38:49 AM PDT by workerbee (Yes, I hate Obama because of his color: RED!)
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To: Smokin' Joe
A house divided against itself cannot stand.

We currently HAVE a house divided. IMO, a better result would be each side getting their OWN house, where they can each live the way they want.

41 posted on 04/09/2010 10:40:21 AM PDT by Wissa ("So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."-Padme Amidala)
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To: Smokin' Joe

The entire country seceding from Wash. DC might be a solution.


42 posted on 04/09/2010 10:44:52 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: Wissa

A lot of those who identify with leftist crap would change their minds if they were exposed to truth instead of MSM leftist propaganda.

Actually that’s happening already.


43 posted on 04/09/2010 10:46:01 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Yes. I have been shot at, wounded, bombed by, attacked by Communists, Marxists, and Socialists. I have held the hands of the dying to stop the spread of collectivism. I have paid a very dear price myself.

I did not do all that, witness all that, pay that price so Obama and his fellow travelers could take over this country. Not now, not ever.

If this means a smaller USA, so be it. Get the hell out of my country, you fraking communists. This is my country. You are not welcome here. You are not just another political movement. You are a poison to our Constitutional Republic.

May you all go to hell, and perhaps I will help you on your way.

Just sayin!


44 posted on 04/09/2010 10:46:46 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, telling it straight since AD 33)
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To: Safrguns

Hey, I know this model. It was call the Bolshevik Revolution. Are some conservatives now America haters?


45 posted on 04/09/2010 10:47:46 AM PDT by righttackle44 (Is Obama an Irish, Italian or Japanese name?)
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To: righttackle44

>>> Are some conservatives now America haters?

No... the federal government is, and it is evidenced by the new health care legislation.


46 posted on 04/09/2010 10:49:35 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: firebasecody

I second that!


47 posted on 04/09/2010 10:49:39 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: 84rules

The current path of the country is unsustainable and inevitable. We will need a RADICAL change in the way government in structured and paid for if this country is to survive.


48 posted on 04/09/2010 10:49:44 AM PDT by Wyatt's Torch (I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.)
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To: Wissa
We currently HAVE a house divided. IMO, a better result would be each side getting their OWN house, where they can each live the way they want.

If they don't like it, they have a wide assortment of socialist governments to choose from when they emigrate. There is only one USA.

49 posted on 04/09/2010 10:49:51 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: 84rules
Some would argue that policies of Obama and the Democrats have already destroyed any credible military capability that we have.

SOme would argue there is a consensus on Anthropogenic Global Warming as well, even though over 35,000 scientists have signed a petition asserting otherwise.

As long as there are men and women who love our Republic in the Armed Forces, they will do their best to retain that credibility--their lives depend on it.

50 posted on 04/09/2010 10:52:41 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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