Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

US Gulf units may not fire on Iranian military without White House say-so
DEBKAfile ^ | April 29, 2010 | DEBKAfile

Posted on 04/29/2010 11:14:56 PM PDT by hamboy

Lord have mercy! The US Fifth Fleet and US aircraft carrier USS Eisenhower in the Gulf of Oman were not allowed to shoot at an Iranian Fokker F27 aircraft which on April 21 hovered for 20 minutes 900 meters over the carrier and no more than 250 meters away, even though they saw its flight crew gathering intelligence on the Eisenhower and its warship escorts.

DEBKA-Net-Weekly's military sources report that the US Persian Gulf command went public on the incident on April 28, a whole week later, only after Gulf military circles, amazed at the American naval and air units' passivity in the face of hostile surveillance, threatened to break the story to local media.

(Excerpt) Read more at debka.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: gulf; iran; iranian; navy; obama

1 posted on 04/29/2010 11:14:57 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: hamboy

Through peace he shall destroy many.


2 posted on 04/29/2010 11:17:15 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Papa of two new Army Brats! Congrats to my Soldier son and his wife.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

It is tragic that this is so believable.


3 posted on 04/29/2010 11:18:51 PM PDT by PghBaldy (Like the Ft Hood Killer, James Earl Ray was just stressed when he killed MLK Jr.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PghBaldy

This means “never”.


4 posted on 04/29/2010 11:20:41 PM PDT by historyrepeatz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SoldierDad

This is stupid!
A Fokker F-27, a twin engined turboprop, hovered for twenty minutes!
During the cold War Soviet aircraft often flew near/over US carriers, always escorted by US aircraft.
DEBKA is not a credible news source.


5 posted on 04/29/2010 11:22:55 PM PDT by hornetguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: hamboy
DEBKA.

Yeah.

6 posted on 04/29/2010 11:23:06 PM PDT by Allegra (Pablo is very wily.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Nachum

It’s debka.

Ping.


7 posted on 04/29/2010 11:29:02 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hornetguy
hoevered?

I read DEBKAfile everday, sometimes they use wrong word. You might try their Hebrew version if you understand. I didn't know Fokker F-27 still flying.

8 posted on 04/29/2010 11:29:38 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

this is insane. didn’t the Eisenhower have a CAP up?


9 posted on 04/29/2010 11:29:42 PM PDT by BigCinBigD (Northern flags in South winds flutter...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

The West vs. Iran, with the West commanded by socialists. The face of peace and accomodation. Maybe our face someday, God forbid.

10 posted on 04/29/2010 11:42:23 PM PDT by Seven plus One
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hamboy
...I didn't know Fokker F-27 still flying.


It seems like the Iranians have 14 F-27’s in their inventory.

Since parts come from Denmark, any boycott would have little effect...:^)

11 posted on 04/29/2010 11:46:00 PM PDT by az_gila (AZ - one Governor down... we don't want her back...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: hornetguy
Okay, I got the DEBKAfile Hebrew version... http://www.debka.co.il/

המקורות הצבאיים של תיקדבקה: למרות שמפקדי הצי החמישי האמריקני, ומפקדי נושאת המטוסים האמריקנית 'אייזנהואר' USS Eisenhower, ידעו ב-21.4, כי המטוס האיראני מדגם פוקאר אפ Fokker F27, שטס במפרץ עומן במשך 20 דקות במרחק שאינו עולה על 900 מטר, ובגובה של לא יותר מ-250 מטר לצידה, הוא מטוס מודיעין איראני העוסק באיסוף מידע על פעולות נושאת המטוסים האמריקנית היחידה הנמצאת מול חופי איראן וספינות המלחמה המלוות אותה, לא בוצעה שום פעולה אמריקנית שתפריע לפעולת איסוף המודיעין האיראנית.

עוד מוסרים המקורות הצבאיים שלנו, כי מקורות צבאיים אמריקנים במפרץ הפרסי דיווחו על תקרית זו שבוע לאחר שאירעה, ביום ד' 28.4, רק לאחר שמקורות צבאיים במפרץ שהביעו פליאה על הפסיביות וחוסר התגובה האמריקנית עמדו להדליף דבר קיומה של תקרית זו לכלי תקשורת מקומיים.

מהשתלשלות האירועים וחוסר התגובה האמריקנית אליהם עולה בבירור כי למפקדי הצי האמריקני במפרץ ובים הערבי, ישנה הוראה שלא לנקוט בשום צעד, בוודאי שלא לפתוח באש, נגד כלי שייט או מטוסים איראניים, מבלי לקבל על כך אישור מוושינגטון.

מקורות צי ותעופה צבאיים אמרו לתיקדבקה כי הסטייה הקטנה ביותר של המטוס האיראני, הייתה מביאה אותו תוך לא יותר מ-10 שניות לטוס ישירות מעל נושאת המטוסים האמריקנית. גם במרחק בו המטוס האירני טס ליד נושאת המטוסים הוא היה יכול לפגוע בה.
Translated in English...

Tikedabka's military sources: Although the U.S. Fifth Fleet commanders, commanders of the American aircraft carrier "Eisenhower, USS Eisenhower, knew at -21.4, the Iranian plane model Fokker F27 Apocar up, flying in the Gulf of Oman for 20 minutes at a distance not exceeding 900 meters, height of
No more than 250 feet beside her, is an Iranian aircraft engaged in collecting intelligence information on American aircraft carrier operations unit located off the coast of Iran warship accompanied her, was not carried out any American action interfere Iranian intelligence-gathering operation.

More give our military sources, that the American military sources reported in the Persian Gulf this week after the incident occurred on Wednesday, 28.4, just after the Gulf military sources expressed surprise that American passivity and lack of response had leaked the existence of this incident to local media.

Events and the American response to them is clear that the U.S. Navy commanders in the Gulf Arabian Sea, there is an order not to take any step, certainly not to open fire against a vessel or aircraft Iranian, without further approval from Washington.

Naval aviation and military sources said Ltikedabka that the smallest deviation of the Iranian plane was bringing him in not more than 10 seconds to fly directly over the aircraft carrier USS. It is also about the Iranian plane flew near the aircraft carrier he could hurt her.




12 posted on 04/29/2010 11:50:12 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: hornetguy
DEBKA is not a credible news source.

Indeed, this is a crock. Iranian P-3s flew over Ike on a regular basis when I was working on the flight deck during the '06-'07 cruise. We didn't shoot them out of the sky then and we're not going to now unless they engage in a hostile action. Just flying over our ship in their backyard for a looksee doesn't constitute hostile actions.

I thought Debka was banned as a source on FR? They're about as credible as Weekly World News.

13 posted on 04/29/2010 11:51:02 PM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Drew68
I thought Debka was banned as a source on FR? They're about as credible as Weekly World News.

If FR bans DEBKAfile they gotta ban the PETA activist posting all Pitbull crap!

14 posted on 04/29/2010 11:58:13 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: SoldierDad

” The 0bamanation of desolation”


16 posted on 04/30/2010 12:47:48 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Drew68
You probably didn't see that CNN reported on it too.

Iranian navy plane flies near USS Eisenhower in Gulf of Oman

Oh, wait, you posted on that thread so you must have noticed it.

17 posted on 04/30/2010 12:48:07 AM PDT by TigersEye (0basma's father was a British subject. He can't be a "natural-born" citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

Who is a PETA activist?


18 posted on 04/30/2010 12:52:07 AM PDT by bushpilot1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Yehuda; hornetguy
Based on this AND YOU MAY CONTINUE TO UNBUNCH 'EM... link it's pretty consistent Fokker F-27 flew near or over the U.S. carrier not AP's version Iranian jet hovering, oppps, just kidding, LOL....

19 posted on 04/30/2010 12:52:28 AM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
You probably didn't see that CNN reported on it too.

I'm not disputing the account. I'm disputing Debkas take on it. I'm wondering why it's even newsworthy.

Iranian planes fly over carriers cruising in their backyard all the time in the Gulf. Big deal. Yes, we would need permission from the White House to shoot a surveillance plane out of the sky in international airspace. Imagine that? This isn't some kind of new policy. Debka is trying to turn a mundane, routine occurrence into some kind of display of a lack of resolve on the United States Navy. That's where this article is a crock.

20 posted on 04/30/2010 12:57:48 AM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
Oh, wait, you posted on that thread so you must have noticed it.

Actually, I noticed it regularly while working on the flight deck of Ike for nearly eight months.

21 posted on 04/30/2010 12:58:53 AM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Drew68
That's where this article is a crock.

Same take CNN had. Your knocking Debka is a crock.

22 posted on 04/30/2010 1:09:58 AM PDT by TigersEye (0basma's father was a British subject. He can't be a "natural-born" citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: hamboy
ROE from satanallahs fecal filled finger puppet.


23 posted on 04/30/2010 1:13:54 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, John 1:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
Same take CNN had.

Not quite.

Your knocking Debka is a crock.

I'll call 'em as I see 'em (and I've seen plenty of Iranian surveillance planes).

24 posted on 04/30/2010 1:17:21 AM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Drew68
Not quite.

From the CNN article...

While the encounter was not threatening, it was unusual. U.S. navy ships have regularly encountered Iranian aircraft in the Persian Gulf in recent years, but this encounter took place in the Gulf of Oman, in an area where Iranian jets are seen much less frequently, several Navy officials said.

The wording is almost identical.

25 posted on 04/30/2010 1:21:04 AM PDT by TigersEye (0basma's father was a British subject. He can't be a "natural-born" citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

Treason in high places. Pure and simple. no opposition from RINOs, WINOs or PINOs.


26 posted on 04/30/2010 1:23:14 AM PDT by J Edgar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hornetguy

I was on a carrier in the Med in ‘61-62. We had to anchor offshore from most ports, as they could not deal with such large ships. I was in Catapults and thus above decks and witnessed several times in various ports the MIGs flying only a few hundred feet high coming at our ship and flying over. It was a common intimidation tactic during the Cold War. I guess the US pilots probably did the same to the USSR ships. .....The MIGs never tried such when our carrier task force was at sea. Wonder why?


27 posted on 04/30/2010 1:38:06 AM PDT by octex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: bushpilot1

“Who is a PETA activist?”

Someone who eats pit bulls for lunch.


28 posted on 04/30/2010 1:46:19 AM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

Reminds me of the Lebanon marine barracks bombing. Our marines weren’t allowed to keep loaded rifles at the gate.


29 posted on 04/30/2010 4:13:02 AM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

BS article. Flybys like that are common. all countries do that. This is the annual spring war-fever attempt to prop up oil prices.

I spent 22 years in the USN. These sort of flybys by MARPATs happen daily.

And by the way: First rule of all US ROE is that the right of self defence is pre-eminent.

As we put it in service: “You have to be alive to be CM.” The story is pure hype of a routine flyby...


30 posted on 04/30/2010 6:30:27 AM PDT by DJ Elliott
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jet Jaguar

Debka? It must absorbed with a large grain of salt.


31 posted on 04/30/2010 7:26:59 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: hamboy
You mean the articles about pit bulls killing children all over the country? Do you think these are lying about it?

Like this one? A Dog's Life Cut Short

The incident started when the pit bulls, who lived next door, bolted out of the front door and ran straight at Kody, witnesses said. Kody's owner, 19-year-old Broc Pulley, tried desperately to fend off the attack after a neighbor knocked on his door and told him what was happening.

Two of his friends whacked at the pit bulls with hockey sticks, while Pulley punched one of the dogs in the face in an attempt to get them off his dog. But it was too late. The larger pit bull broke the chain holding Kody and dragged his limp body two houses down. My neighbor's dog was killed this same way. A pit bull got loose, came to her yard, and tore her dog up while he was leashed. A couple of people tried to beat the pit bull off, but to no avail. She just watched her dog brutally murdered.

I hate the idea of pre-emptive law. But I am ready to support a law that requires all pit bull owners to get licenses, and to post a $50,000 bond or insurance, to be paid if their dogs attack other people or animals. They get the money back when their dog dies.

That way, people can still own the dog of their choice, but if they choose stupidly, those suffering from their choice can get compensated.

32 posted on 04/30/2010 7:40:12 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Yehuda

Of course, there’s nothing to see we don’t want them to see from the air. After all, we know there are satellites and higher-flying surveillance aircraft that can take pictures at any time.


33 posted on 04/30/2010 7:41:33 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

But CNN makes it clear the “unusual” aspect was WHERE they Iranian plane was. Not that it was “unusual” for the Navy to allow a plane to fly over them, or not shoot them down, as the Debka report suggests.


34 posted on 04/30/2010 7:43:21 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT
But CNN makes it clear the “unusual” aspect was WHERE they Iranian plane was.

And Admiral Roughead makes is clear WHERE they were flying was in international airspace. And he's correct. Look at a map. There's a whole lotta Iran to the north of the Gulf of Oman.

There's really no story here.

35 posted on 04/30/2010 11:19:45 AM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT; Drew68
But the Debka article says far more than the CNN article to underscore the point that this was no problem.

To try and explain this incident away, US naval sources Wednesday, April 28, claimed the Iranian plane was unarmed and its encounter with the US carrier was not of a threatening nature, although irregular.

Admiral Gary Roughead, Chief of Naval Operations, tried to play down the importance of the incident by saying: "The Iranians (pilots) were not provocative or threatening. As long as they are professional and not threatening or reckless, it's international space."

Again the text is almost identical except that Debka provides a bit more.

36 posted on 04/30/2010 2:45:23 PM PDT by TigersEye (0basma's father was a British subject. He can't be a "natural-born" citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT; Drew68; hornetguy; Yehuda; Nachum; DJ Elliott
Just DEBKAfile titling their article, "US Gulf units may not fire on Iranian military without White House say-so," is more direct.  I would rather read DEBKAfile than CNN or even FNC.  I don't know whom you guys first heard two Israeli F-15i wiped out the Syrian nuke reactor on Sept. 6, 207.  I saw it first at DEBKAfile online, "DEBKAfile’s military experts conclude from the way Damascus described the episode Wednesday, Sept. 6, 2007, that the Pantsyr-S1E missiles, purchased from Russia to repel air assailants, failed to down the Israeli jets accused of penetrating northern Syrian airspace from the Mediterranean the night before."  I followed the DEBKAfile Pantsyr-S1E article to a Israeli blog and even saw this satellite photo the following day.
Oh my God!

37 posted on 04/30/2010 4:20:28 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye
The part you quote shows the subtle bias in their "news report":
Admiral Gary Roughead, Chief of Naval Operations, tried to play down the importance of the incident by saying
"tried to play down" implies that there was something to play down, and that there is something untoward about the attempt to dismiss the incident.
38 posted on 04/30/2010 7:30:23 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

CNN is not a credible news source.


39 posted on 04/30/2010 7:32:41 PM PDT by barack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT

Whoop-dee-doo.


40 posted on 04/30/2010 7:57:14 PM PDT by TigersEye (0basma's father was a British subject. He can't be a "natural-born" citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: barack

That was his point.


41 posted on 04/30/2010 7:59:01 PM PDT by TigersEye (0basma's father was a British subject. He can't be a "natural-born" citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson