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Are Passport Cards the Beginning of a National ID?
U.S. Department of State ^ | 15 May 2010 | Self

Posted on 05/15/2010 9:51:35 AM PDT by CodeToad

The US State Department now issues a Passport Card as well as the Passport Book, which every one is familiar.

Here are some interesting comments about it from the U.S. Department of State web site:

"We began production of the U.S. Passport Card on July 14, 2008. As of March 2010, more than 2,700,000 Passport Cards have been issued to U.S. citizens."

"The passport card is the wallet-size travel document that can only be used to re-enter the United States at land border-crossings and sea ports-of-entry from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda. The card provides a less expensive, smaller, and convenient alternative to the passport book for those who travel frequently to these destinations by land or by sea. "

"Yes, the passport card has a vicinity-read radio frequency identification (RFID) chip."

"There is no personal information written on the electronic chip itself. The chip contains a unique number which identifies a stored record within secure government databases. "

U.S. Department of State: Passport Card web page.

Passport Card:

Passport Book:

Seems the Passport Card is used for land travel only, not air travel, and only for primarily Canada and Mexico. For air travel the usual Passport Book is required.


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: 666; nationalid; passportcard
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1 posted on 05/15/2010 9:51:35 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: CodeToad

Had to get a travel card to go to Mexico....about 35 years ago. I think it was yellow...


2 posted on 05/15/2010 9:55:58 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (What)
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To: CodeToad

Other than travel out of the US, why do we need a national ID? I’m not saying we don’t need ID’s, just curious why a national ID.

Once someone is in the US, legally or illegally (border crossers, visa overstays), nobody asks for papers anyway. Even if we had a national ID or even a tamperproof worker ID, it won’t solve the border problems. People working for cash (Home Depot day laborers), drug smugglers, hit men, terrorits, etc. don’t need ID’s anyway.


3 posted on 05/15/2010 9:59:01 AM PDT by umgud (Obama is a failed experiment.)
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To: CodeToad

It sorta makes sense when crossing the border a _lot_. I used to live about an hour from Canada, and went almost weekly for a couple years. Passports worked fine, but a card would have been a bit more convenient.

They start requiring it INSIDE this country, and I’ll stop carrying ID altogether. Domestic “paperien, bitte” will be met with all due vigor as guided by study of history.


4 posted on 05/15/2010 9:59:44 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
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To: CodeToad

Yes.


5 posted on 05/15/2010 10:01:45 AM PDT by marron
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To: CodeToad

Separate issues,I think.Yes,if there ever is a “national ID card” it would probably look much like this but *all* nations have passports...even the freest,least authoritarian ones.


6 posted on 05/15/2010 10:03:12 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: CodeToad
Yes, the passport card has a vicinity-read radio frequency identification (RFID) chip."

Just pop it in a microwave oven for about 10 seconds...

7 posted on 05/15/2010 10:04:49 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: CodeToad
I had to have a pic for my drivers license, work place, and a Professional license (I was fingerprinted for that)....

Why is everyone so worried about a new ID card???

8 posted on 05/15/2010 10:05:02 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (What)
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To: ctdonath2
Yes, I can see where this could be very useful if you have to travel to Canada/Mexico a lot.

I wonder if Canada/Mexico accepts it for entry, allowing one to leave their real passport at home?

9 posted on 05/15/2010 10:11:11 AM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Aim small, miss small.)
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To: CodeToad

Just last week someone with whom I was traveling who uses a pp card had a hell of a time with the idiots at Jet Blue who didn’t want to let him on the plane because they said the card wasn’t valid ID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


10 posted on 05/15/2010 10:12:25 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Sacajaweau

“Why is everyone so worried about a new ID card???

Good question. The answer is that to have a driver’s license or a library card is not a big deal at all, but to have a central government issue identification cards and mandate them is nothing but compelte and total control over you. So far a national ID has not been required, but, as with many evil plans that start at the back door, could this be one? The feds try their hand at a better ID cards, get the system working well, then mandate them while claiming they have a good system?


11 posted on 05/15/2010 10:13:54 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: CodeToad

Does the book have the chip and if you have the book, can you just use it instead of the card to go to Canada or Mexico?


12 posted on 05/15/2010 10:14:08 AM PDT by bushwon ("If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it is free"--PJ O'rourke)
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To: CodeToad

I have no problem with a national ID card, if it is reasonably secure & protected from forgery & fraud, but I realize that last part is ultimately, extremely difficult. And I have little faith in our bureaucracy to master anything beyond greed.


13 posted on 05/15/2010 10:21:53 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: Sacajaweau

As long as they don’t make me sew an ID card onto to my forehead I can live with it.
I use the Tijuana border crossing and get car pictured going in, coming back: card ID automatically machine scanned, car x-rayed, car is dog sniffed for drugs while waiting in line, car photoed again, question by border patrol agent after handing them ID card, usually just a quick trunk open inspection, did you buy anything question, what was your purpose in Mexico question and destination in the US now.
Any suspicions and you get sent to Secondary where they can disassemble your vehicle and detain you if they feel like it.
A long time ago, it only use to be, “What is your citizenship? and Are you bringing in any fruit from Mexico?” That was it.

Scanners at airports are the real personal violation.


14 posted on 05/15/2010 10:32:17 AM PDT by Razzz42
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To: Razzz42

It’s a mini-passport ID card only good for re-entry from Mexico and Canada by foot or vehicle, can’t fly with it, you need a full passport for flying or extended stays. You go through the same steps when applying for a card like a full passport but it costs like only $50-$75 the first time around. Both card and book have chips.


15 posted on 05/15/2010 10:41:23 AM PDT by Razzz42
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To: CodeToad

I carry my passport with me everywhere, and use it for proof of identification when needed (credit cards, etc). It does not contain my address, my State of residence, and no code or information that can be traced through any State database. And it is accepted nation-wide as proof of identification.

In other words, it’s better than a driver’s license in terms of proof of identity and keeping my personal information secure.


16 posted on 05/15/2010 10:43:00 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

It will when you renew it. My pp, renewed in April, has a photo-embedded copy of my state driver’s license, which of course has all that information on it (except SSN, in my state).


17 posted on 05/15/2010 10:52:36 AM PDT by SAJ (Zerobama? A phony and a prick, ergo a dildo.)
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To: SAJ
Interesting; can you show me where this happens? I renewed my about 8 months ago (full, again!) and had no driver's license included. Additionally, a friend just renewed theirs last month and it has no photo of their driver's license in it. Driver's license wasn't even required for the renewal of the passport.

The current State Department Passport renewal page says nothing about requiring a driver's license; given that you can renew overseas and a driver's license is NOT required to receive a passport, I'd be very surprised if a license is included in a passport.

18 posted on 05/15/2010 11:54:11 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: bushwon

The book is good anywhere the card is.


19 posted on 05/15/2010 11:56:37 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: kabumpo

“because they said the card wasn’t valid ID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

It isn’t, not for flying. Go figure.


20 posted on 05/15/2010 11:57:29 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

“In other words, it’s better than a driver’s license in terms of proof of identity and keeping my personal information secure.”

Never thought of it that way, but you might be right. State databases usually carry too much information that can be leaked.


21 posted on 05/15/2010 11:58:21 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: Mister Da

“I have no problem with a national ID card”

The problem is that with that ID the federal govenrment can control you very easily. They only need to mandate it for use to buy gas (because it involves federal taxes), to rent an apartment or buy a home (because they involve federal agencies involved with mortgages), to travel (interstate regulations), and they can deny your rights to do so. Total control over your purchases and movements. It has been used in the Soviet Union and other Marxist places, and don’t forget, Obama is a Marxist by his own admission and so is half the Congress. They want that type of control and have said so very clearly over the years.


22 posted on 05/15/2010 12:01:10 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Well, in my case, I applied at the local public library. They required my birth certificate and driver's license. This might have been because my old pp was **very** beaten up with use, I don't know.

However, I've made an error. I've just looked at the pp, and what appears on page 3 is NOT my driver's license, but looks like it, sans address. Rather spookily, the typefaces are the same (very curious) on the pp and my dl. Sorry to have misinformed you.

23 posted on 05/15/2010 12:04:17 PM PDT by SAJ (Zerobama? A phony and a prick, ergo a dildo.)
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To: SAJ

No worries, here. I still have my passport and love to use it since you cannot find out anything about me other than my name, age, and nationality! A great, 100% accepted proof of identification that tells others nothing except I am who I say I am...:)


24 posted on 05/15/2010 12:40:00 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: CodeToad

Exactly. I have never found a place that will refuse to use my passport for ID; many express surprise but all will use it. And I have no reason to give my driver’s license number nor my address to anyone.


25 posted on 05/15/2010 12:44:22 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: CodeToad

Good to know,do the books have the chip as well?


26 posted on 05/15/2010 12:50:57 PM PDT by bushwon ("If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it is free"--PJ O'rourke)
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To: bushwon

Hard to tell but suspect they do.


27 posted on 05/15/2010 1:02:57 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

In some cases it also tells where you have been and how long you were there.


28 posted on 05/15/2010 2:37:46 PM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: CodeToad
I hate the police state as much as anybody, but the Feds can do the things you mentioned w/o a national ID card.

During WWII, we had no ID card, yet food, fuel, & housing rentals were regulated by the Feds.

The Feds already know who we are, our age & sex, our income & occupation, where we live & work, our home value, & many other things. I’d say they have all the info they need to enslave us.

The only solution to tyranny is revolution. Forget petty battles over proper ID. Our current lack of an ID card has not stopped the tyranny we experience today. We need a good, secure ID to protect against identity theft & to help identify enemies & illegals w/i our midst. If it facilitates tyranny, then get rid of the tyrants, not the ID card.

29 posted on 05/15/2010 3:33:23 PM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: Mister Da

“we had no ID card”

There were ration cards, though. ID cards give immediate ability to control. Without them, they have one less significant tool.


30 posted on 05/15/2010 5:34:58 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: CodeToad

No it’s not a step towards anything. It’s nothing more than a quicker cheaper limited usage passport. Anybody that’s only driving/ walking to Mexico or Canada can get it and save $60. Doesn’t really accomplish much, other than end some of the whining when we finally started requiring passports for crossing the Mexican and Canadian borders.


31 posted on 05/15/2010 5:38:39 PM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: kabumpo

For general ID purposes anything government issues should be good. But if the flight was going to be crossing borders they were right, the card is exclusively for land re-entry into the US.


32 posted on 05/15/2010 5:41:06 PM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: kabumpo

“Just last week someone with whom I was traveling who uses a pp card had a hell of a time with the idiots at Jet Blue who didn’t want to let him on the plane because they said the card wasn’t valid ID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

-

Did that happen on a domestic flight?

Just curious.

Thanks. I actually have one, and would like to know how useful it is (or is not).

It’s sort of cool actually.

I do keep it shielded though. Not that the personal identification number on the rfid is that big a thing. But just on general principle.


33 posted on 05/15/2010 5:49:05 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (Palin / Rubio 2012)
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To: CodeToad

I thought the Real ID Act of 2005 was the basis for a National ID. It’s still hasn’t been implement and there are some efforts trying to have it eliminated. But it was a national effort to standardize IDs for use on the national and state level.


34 posted on 05/15/2010 5:50:32 PM PDT by deport
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To: CodeToad
Ration cards were not ID cards. Ration coupons were commonly swapped among citizens. Friends & family would often do the shopping of another whose ration card they took to the store. The purpose of ration cards was to manage & distribute scarce resources fairly during war, NOT as an ID.

The gov’t can already shut off your credit cards, seize your home, car, property, bank accounts, & children with a simple court order. They can invade your home, shoot your dogs, terrorize your family, & arrest everyone, all on the word of an “informant”; & they don't ask for ID until much later. They can arrest or detain you in public at any time they choose, ID or not.

Refusing a purchase based on an ID card is exactly the same as a refused credit or debit card, & just as immediate. Nothing could be more immediate than a padlock on your home & your car towed away. But not to worry, they wont call you & ask for ID before they do it, because they already know who you are.

I understand your concern, but those powers you don't want the gov’t to have, they already have. Your anonymity in society ended at birth. In a complex, electronic society, it is to your advantage to be able to ID yourself immediately & reliably. It makes life easier - see credit & debit cards, a form of ID.

My wife audits company credit card purchases. For virtually every purchase, she has the date, time, store name, location, & an itemized list of everything purchased. Strip clubs, Victoria's Secret, liquor stores, sex shops. In stunning detail. Bra sizes, car tag numbers, rented x-rated movie titles , taxi trip details. It's all there. And she can shut down those cards immediately with one phone call.

The gov’t has this same capability now thru subpoena & court order. So, our lives are neither private nor anonimous, & are subject now to immediate control, without a national ID. That tells me the National ID is irrelevant to my freedom and privacy.

This may horrify you, but I see personal ID & communications being embedded into the human body in the near future. For the ID, it makes it more secure. One could think the password for a transaction, or think the whole transaction. No need for a cashier. For the communications, it would be instant, private, & super convenient. An Ipad or laptop in your brain, very small of course, but with a screen size limited only by your mind.

35 posted on 05/15/2010 8:06:12 PM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Yes, from NYC to Buffalo NY — can’t get more domestic — no een crossing a state line.


36 posted on 05/16/2010 11:10:28 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

NYC to Buffalo NY — can’t get more domestic — not even crossing a state line.


37 posted on 05/16/2010 11:11:30 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: discostu

We were flying from NYC to Buffalo NY — can’t get more domestic — no even crossing a state line.


38 posted on 05/16/2010 11:12:28 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

Might just be too new and the people didn’t recognize it. I knew they existed but this is the first time I’ve seen one.


39 posted on 05/16/2010 11:14:48 AM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu

it’s clearly issued by the Federal gov’t and has been in use for at least 2 years. Hundreds of people fly Jet Blue daily. It’s not like he was trying to use it as ID in a barbecue joint in some remote rural area.


40 posted on 05/16/2010 11:34:30 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: glorgau
You can do that and maybe should, but that won't really do anything. The ports of entry have the capability to check by the bar code, magnetic strip, name, DOB, etc. When I go through the border from Canada, they take my passport and swipe it through a reader. It picks up the required info from the bar code and/or RFID chip. Doesn't matter which. They then use that information to begin the "examination" that tells the CBP officer whether you need further examination. Secondary, baggage declaration, trunk inspection, full nine yards. The RFID is only one of the ways they have to find out who you are.

BTW, you do not have the protection of the 4th Amendment at a US port of Entry. They can search without warrant and hold you for as long as it takes to find out who you are and what you might have in your possession, including, under certain circumstances, a full body search.

41 posted on 05/16/2010 11:46:53 AM PDT by oneolcop (Lead, Follow or Get the Hell Out of the Way!)
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To: kabumpo

“Clearly” is a matter of perspective. I could make an ID that says it came from the federal government, but was just a hunk of paper I made up and laminated. 2 years isn’t a long time, especially for an ID that only a small percentage of people have. Hundreds of people might fly Jet Blue daily, but probably most of them present driver’s licenses as their ID, and anybody using passports would probably use full passports since the passcard is specifically no good for going through airport customs. Under 3 million passcards that have been issued, it’s not a common ID, Americans historically aren’t into passports, back before we needed them to come back from Mexico only about 10% of Americans had them.


42 posted on 05/16/2010 3:37:29 PM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu

An airlines should be up todate about this, they’re not a jitney service. THe person I was traveling with is a peformer who has been all over the U.S using this — only Jet Blue has given him a problem.


43 posted on 05/16/2010 5:02:14 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

Every random employee of a 3.2 billion dollar company is not going to be up to date. Just not gonna happen. We don’t know how long the guy had been doing their job, if they’d had a complete set of training. People are still people, they make mistakes, the operate with incomplete sets of information, they forget things. That’s life.


44 posted on 05/16/2010 6:11:27 PM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu

Never happened at any other airlines, only Jet Blue, who were horrible to him and we almost missed the plane.
Are you an employee of JB? It’sbeginning to sound that way.


45 posted on 05/17/2010 1:40:24 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

I’m just a realist, I understand that people are imperfect. Jet Blue is a discount airline, just like any other discounter those low prices come with a non-dollar price.


46 posted on 05/17/2010 1:42:42 PM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu

Not an excuse for not being up to date with Federal law re homeland security and processing passengers.


47 posted on 05/17/2010 1:50:10 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

If you want to deal only with the brightest and the best you’ve got to pay for it. Your friend used an ID that’s owned by less than 1% of the populace that’s only been in existence for 2 years, and the guy at the discount airline had never seen it before. It’s really not that complicated. If you want the shlub getting paid half what the guy across the hall to know everything his better paid counterpart knows you’re barking up the wrong fiscal system, out here in capitalism if he was that good he’d BE the better paid counterpart.


48 posted on 05/17/2010 1:59:21 PM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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To: discostu

There’s no discount on national/homeland security.


49 posted on 05/18/2010 8:51:31 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo

There is at Jet Blue. Cheap fair come with a price.


50 posted on 05/18/2010 8:52:49 AM PDT by discostu (wanted: brick, must be thick and well kept)
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