Skip to comments.Chinese Firm Drops Local IQ Standards for U.S. Hires
Posted on 07/08/2010 9:22:43 AM PDT by decimon
Says lower IQ rates will help it deal with smaller U.S. talent pool
The U.S. has arguably been the most desirable place in the world to get a college education with international students from China, India, Japan, and others all traveling to the U.S. with that express purpose. However, there's serious signs of trouble; U.S. citizens' college graduation rates are in danger of falling behind China. Japanese enrollment is down as U.S. universities are slowly falling out of favor. And at least one executive of an Indian firm complained that American graduates were "unemployable".
Adding to the list of awkward statistics is a recent announcement by Bleum Inc., a Chinese outsourcing company. In China, with a deluge of available highly-intelligent graduates, Bleum Inc. requires that its workers score over 140 on an IQ test.
When it decided to recruit American computer science graduates, though, it decided that bar was way too high. It dropped the requirement for the Americans down to 120, a move it says reflects a lower pool of talented college grads in the U.S.
Bleum says the move is meant as no affront to the U.S. Its founder and CEO Eric Rongley is actually an American himself. He says that in China his firm gets thousands of applications a week from eager college grads. With about 1,000 employees, his firm hires less than 1 percent of those who apply. He states, "It is much harder to get into Bleum than it is to Harvard."
(Excerpt) Read more at dailytech.com ...
I see the only solution is to outsource our kids to China.
Let them get a Chinese education. (Probably a lot cheaper than an Ivy League degree)
Just my 2 cents.
wow they require a 140 IQ. That is setting the bar pretty high. Good for them I guess.
I have a high IQ but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Often it results in people who can’t feel empathy or compassion as everything is logic driven. It’s hard to communicate with others because they can’t follow. So if they need some number crunchers or programmers high IQs are good. But if they need leaders often times it gets in their way. Not saying all leaders have small IQs either.
Don’t forget the teachers’ unions.
Don’t forget GLBT “Happy” Studies.
Definitely! My cousin’s husband is a math prof at Cal State and laments the lack of ability among the students in his classes, particularly the advanced levels. When he was an undergrad (the Eighties), an A required at least a score of 85. Using many of the same exams, the curve has been lowered to 80 or less depending upon the exam.
His greatest concern is the lack of inquisitiveness among most of his students. Also, in an essay question discussing math theory, juniors and seniors misspelled numerous words.
Indian firms trying to defend their syphoning off of American tech sector jobs.
Back when I was tested (high school), they wouldn't even give you your exact score, only the range. Since I graduated 14th in a class of 144, I suspect I'm right in the middle of the range.
I can't see where the intelligence has made me any extra money, but it has kept me from voting for libtards . . .
US demographics have been shifting in favor of lower IQ segments.
Unmarried teenage mothers whom the government subsidizes to have babies (the hallowed “single moms” who are the mascot class of progressives) average one of the lowest IQ levels of the population.
Also, the tens of millions of illegals who have crossed the southern border significantly lower the average IQ of the country. The high school dropout rate for foreign-born hispanics is appallingly high. The argument by progressives that the children and grandchildren of this population will be widely engaged in high value-added economic activity, such as high-tech entrepreneurs or inventors of medical devices, is nonsense as the data show that the American-born generations following the immigrant generation still have ridiculously high dropout rates, not to mention 50% illegitimacy rates.
As the average IQ of the American population falls relative to other competing world economic zones, and as our economy and politics becomes more socialistic and sclerotic, the standard of living of the US will begin falling farther and farther behind.
No, the standards here are far, far more lax than in India. Consider that EVERY Indian high school studend speaks AT LEAST 3 languages fluently. And I do mean ‘fluently’!! They speak English (spelling and grammar are impecable, American accent, not so much), they speak Hindi (national language of India) and whatever local dialect they grew up with. There are over 1,500 local dialects spoken in India.
In America, we can’t do enough for the stupid, lazy or unmotivated. We punish the achievers - heck, we even deny the Valadictorian and Salutatorian the honor of speaking at their graduation in many states. We can’t do enough for the losers.
In India, it’s achieve or go out on the streets and beg for food. Your future educational potential is based upon your previous educational achievements - now THAT is incentive.
So, he is absolutely and compoletely correct. Among Indians, they are trained to treat the average American as a high school drop-out; and given the standards they grow up with - they aren’t too far off.
The natural result of “No Child Left Behind.” When no child is left behind, the educational system has been dumbed down until no child is educated.
We USED to do that. Now, we've lowered our standards to fit just about anyone who can fog a dental mirror. I guess China is willing to put up with those zany quirks that high IQs bring to the table. I would argue that I'd rather see an average IQ with study skills and a willingness to put forth the effort to master any given subject -- that would leave us with the task of finding educators who can manage to give that average IQ enough material (minus the liberal "world view") to see what they can do with it and insist that they meet a high bar to achieve the mastery.
Right. "You're" part of the problem.
Right. "You're" part of the problem.
I know just when to screw up, don't I?
For leaders of regular, American-IQ companies you may be right. For leaders of Chinese-IQ companies, they may simply want to select those with interpersonal skills from their vast 140+ pool. Each to relate to his average employee.
I couldn’t add the sarcasm disclaimer without ruining the irony of the moment. Cheers!
>> Dont forget the teachers unions.
With the right education, IQ scores can be raised significantly. I don’t see this as a priority for the union teacher.
The US is better off for it.
Why would you want the Chinese approach?
“Yet, my darling, it’s incroyable,
That someone so unemployable
Should think I’m,
The problem is that China sends their best and brightest over here to get an education in the USA (notice the article didn't really say where these Chinese grads were getting theitr education from...especially at the post-graduate level, you can be guaranteed that a goodly share are from US universities), and these then take the skill set right back over to China.
The Chinese have a marginally higher average IQ compared to Americans (Chinese - ~103-105, white Americans - ~101-103), but there are so many more Chinese that they will statistically be guaranteed to have many more 140+ IQ individuals. The same thing applies with India, though less so, since the average Indian IQ (from what I've read) is down around 95 or so, so there will be fewer far-right end of the bell curve types - but the ones they do have mostly seem to come here, get educated, and then go back to India.
The issue isn't that Chinese and Indians are that much smarter than Americans, the problem is that in America, we have this "everybody should go to college" mentality when in actuality, not everybody really should. We graduate a lot of substandard graduates from our universities because of things like grade inflation, etc. These substandard graduates, who are either lazy or not so bright, then become the "unemployable Americans" that the Indian in the article was whining about. Most of the bright, capable Americans remain in America, so India only sees the dummies. The opposite applies to Indians and Chinese here - we only see the top 1%, the rest who didn't come here to get educated, we never see.
A very bright friend who worked at Nasa, etc told me America isn’t producing the bright people anymore, they are coming from places like India.
Doesn’t have to be, but Anmerica is immersed in liberal politics which is just a time waster, accomplishes nothing.
Unfortunately, that's truly the case (though it's QUITE politically incorrect to point it out).
We're in the process of importing millions of low-skill manual labourers whose IQ averages around 92-94, meaning they will be less likely to have the wherewithal to develop more complex skills and attain a meaningful higher education (i.e. one that doesn't involve lots of classes in "LGBT theory"), and therefore be less likely to contribute significantly to the betterment of our society than previous waves of immigrants did.
Follow and observe a few Chinese drivers then get back to me on this vast IQ difference.
To be fair, it's not that we don't have the bright people (that's a function of genetics, in large part, with certain environmental modifiers), it's that too many of our bright people are wasting their time on meaningless majors that don't advance things like "technology," "science," and "standard of living." THAT is a problem with education. We have too many smart people wasting themselves getting a sociology degree or whatnot because they want to "help people" (remember "smart" does not guarantee "common sense") and have bought into the notion that government is the way to do this (again, "smart" doesn't guarantee "common sense").
Couple this with the fact that we really have way too many not-so-bright people going to college (though many end up failing out, even with things like grade inflation) and passing, but really not being competent to do the jobs that their degrees theoretically open up for them.
Meanwhile, the 1% upper crust from India and China come over here, get the education, and look good by comparison.
I have a degree in engineering from Texas A&M, class of ‘84.
My dad and brothers all got engineering degrees from A&M, from ‘52 - ‘74. I’m the best speller of the group. My dad was a really horrible speller.
Most people that are good in math are not great at spelling.
I never, ever had an essay question for math. I would have failed!!!!!!!
We never talked about much in class, especially math classes. It was hard enough to just stay awake in those classes.
(My kids are stronger than I was in math, that includes my daughter with an IQ of 90 from a brain injury. They’ve had good math instruction through the years. Of course, it helps to have 2 engineering parents who can explain the concepts sometimes better than the teachers.)
For decades Americans have fawned over atheletes and movie stars who help them forget the daily trials of life , while dismissing the accomplishments of those who used their minds ti actually improve life for everyone.
My cousin’s husband teaches analytical geometry and calc along with one other theoretical class. He wrote a paper on math theory called “Signal Acuity in a Multi-Alternative Model of Decision Making.” So many formulas, it makes one’s head spin along with rationale.
As they should. American universities have strayed so far away from their original purpose that, had I not completed my college education decades ago, I might consider an alternative to college today rather than pay for the junk that passes for college curricula today.
Women's studies? Black studies? the History of Pornography? Digital Gaming?
And, we wonder why Johnny can't read and is still as dumb as a bucket of hair after getting his Bachelor's degree!!
Did you ever read Thomas Edison's definition of genius? He said, "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration".
One thing we should note is that American companies (in America) are forbidden by law to administer IQ tests to applicants. Some try to get around this via other means, but no US company can directly ascertain a prospective employee’s Stanford-Binet (or other) score.
Yes, but many (if not most) have learned to lie about those achievements and use the system to get ahead. Like StolarStorm stated (post #9), those I've employed have overstated their experience and CANNOT problem-solve. It is very frustrating trying to convince them that RESULTS matter, not the appearance of adequacy.
The US is heading that way - we’ll soon be speaking three or even four langauges: English, Polish, Arabic, and Spanish here in Chicago for example.
“I guess China is willing to put up with those zany quirks that high IQs bring to the table.”
The Chinese are nothing of not practical. Their views seems to be that as long as the person isn’t breaking the law or causing trouble, then there’s no problem. In America we have all these social rules that aren’t based on being natural, but based on being able to market yourself.
I mean, in the Salem witchcraft trials the majority executed were the ones who were eccentrics. We drug our eccentrics of Ritalin while socially adept psychopaths terrorize everyone around them.
I think the problem you are having is one of academics.
In academics, everything is an exercise of looking up data on a problem that has a definitive solution - if you just know where to look.
In life, we have no idea what the answers are; so we invent them. This is 180 degrees out of phase with most academia. So, you have to modify your interview technique to screen the academics from the problem solvers.
I do this by asking questions that require thought. Such as “Name 5 reasons why a man-hole cover is round”.
Finally, I'd like to see our Immigration Laws enforced. As to the current population of illegal immigrants, I'd like to see them receive a Green Card with a two-year term, renewable for 5 consecutive two year periods with the proviso that:
1) If they live and work here for two years without being convicted of a violent crime, a crime related to narcotics or a felony AND they are enrolled in classes to learn English at the minimum functioning standards (say a third grader) and are also enrolled in Civics course, they may apply for the second two-year term.
2) At the end of the second term, they must demonstrate a higher level of language skills and be able to pass the basic civics requirements. If at any time a felony is committed or violent crime or a crime involving narcotics or human trafficing is committed, it's "Hasta la vista, baby!"
At the end of the 10 year temporary worker term, they must either A) apply to become a US citizen or B) go home. If at any time the temporary worker does not apply for an extension or does not meet certain standards in English and Civics proficiency, their worker privileges are revoked and they go to the back of the line.
I don't care that they come here. I'm flattered they find it hospitable enough to want to stay, but at some point, they must say to themselves — to paraphrase Dorothy in the “Wizard of Oz”, “I don't think we're in Mexico anymore, Toto.” This is America, and we like it that way.
The Chinese are an old civilization -- far older than we -- with far greater problems because of all the baggage they carry foward. Even they realize that not everyone is a good fit to be there.
Oh, that’s simple. It’s because the man-hole is round. Do I get a prize?
Chinese universities only recruit the best and brightest. They want the cream of their country’s crop and roll out the red carpet for their best. They do not want anyone who is an idiot. Plus, their students study practical things, not Castrate Men (Women’s) Studies. Or African Philosophy. Their political leaders are former scientists and engineers.
Some answers I get are:
Round items cannot fall into a round hole
They are heavy, and you can roll a cover
As cars go over them, they can rotate in the hole, and not corrode in place
Round is easy to manufacture
We (humans) are essentially round - so we fit in round holes
Round covers are immune to warping, like a rectangular cover
As they heat, they expand radially, thus eliminating stress fractures
So on, and so forth.
I took a test at a local company that was nearly identical to a standard IQ test. It was an IQ test, they just didn’t call it that. But luckily, I’m good at tests. I’m one of those that are off the charts... meaning I’m probably unstable. :)
I know at CapitalOne they used word problems in math to get around that. Flunked 29 out of 30 applicants right off the bat.
Circular plates are the absolute cheapest in terms of material required.
Manholes that are circular cannot fall into the hole. (all other shapes can)
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