Skip to comments.Stanley Ann's passport records out
Posted on 07/31/2010 6:25:47 PM PDT by jdirt
They don't have her records before 1965 !!
US State Dept Records retention Dec 2008
a. How long is information retained?
The established retention period for electronic records in PRISM is presently 100 years in accordance with published record schedules of the Department of State and as approved by the National Archives and Records Administration.
This is very important.
If we take the March 1965 date, it PROVES that Barry was only FOUR years old when Lolo married Ann.
Under Indonesian law at that time, a child adopted by an Indonesian father under the age of FIVE automatically becomes an Indonesian citizenship without the need for naturalization.
The other important piece of information is that Ann was issued a passport in July 1965. This can only have been so that she could travel to Indonesia with her new husband.
When they went to Indonesia in 1965 did Lolo submit the proper form acknowledging that he had adopted Barry?
If so, Barry became an Indonesian citizen and was entitled to carry an Indonesian passport.
This chronology is supported by Barry's school registration, which lists him as an Indonesian citizen.
At the time Lolo Soetoro adopted little Barry and the family settled in Indonesia, it appears that they intended to live there permanently, and on Ann's passport renewal in 1968 it states she intended to remain in Indonesia "indefinitely".
They didn't foresee that there would be marital problems and that at a later time Ann would want to send Barry back to the US to live with her parents.
Given this new information today, it appears quite possible that Lolo adopted Barry when he was FOUR, and also when Lolo and Ann were in Indonesia in late July or at the beginning of August 1965 he could have reported the adoption to the Indonesian bureaucracy.
Why is it important that Barry appears to have become an Indonesian citizen as a minor?
Because later, after he had turned 18, I suspect that Barry (now calling himself Barack) realized that his Indonesian citizenship could allow him to obtain admission to an elite school like Columbia under their initiative to take more foreign students. Even under affirmative action, I doubt that Barry's reported lackluster scholarship at a middle of the road school like Occidental would have been enough to get him into a school at Columbia's level.
So, I suspect, he renewed his Indonesian passport, as an adult.
He probably did not realize that under US law as in effect at the time, by doing this himself as an adult, he LOST his US citizenship by OPERATION OF LAW, without anyone in the US State Department necessarily knowing anything about it.
That would give him a serious eligibility problem.
Hence, the cover-up. Stonewalling on any and all documents, so curious folks would not know just what in particular he is hiding.
From a public relations point of view, why the cover up? Why would a cover up be necessary unless Obama was ineligible?
Fundamentally....A **real**, true blue, American would be HONORED to immediately prove with the very best evidence that he was natural born and eligible to be president and Commander in Chief!!!! HONORED!!!
Again: A REAL AMERICAN WOULD BE HONORED!!!! ( Yes, I am shouting!)
Only a foreign usurper would act as Obama has done and is doing. The man is a snake!
Only a foreign born usurper would obfuscate and lawyer-up against the military officers who have politely questioned his eligibility. No REAL, natural born American would allow someone like LTC Lakin be court martialed.
beat me to it
they are also microfilmed and given to the National Archives..
Since 1978, the State Department has been microfilming passport applications. Even when they are on microfilm, original papers are kept for 20 years. The microfilm is kept for 100 years. In addition, the department keeps forever any record of a birth or death of an American overseas.
Obama was only THREE in March 1965.
Good catch. The ‘official’ story had been changed in some reports that Lolo didn’t marry SAD until 1967, when Obama would have been too old to be adopted under Indonesian law. This clearly shows that Obama’s background contains lies and deception with most likely intent to defraud the election process. Hopefully the Obots, faithers and sandheads will start to wake up from the hypnosis they’ve been under.
Correct, he was born in August 1961.
It would certainly be understandable if Ann expected Lolo to become a father to Barry in connection with the marriage.
Barack Sr. had simply abandoned Ann and Barry and pretended they did not exist. Adopting little Barry in the case of abandonment would not have been difficult.
If all this is correct, it may be that the most important papers Obama wants concealed are (1) his adoption record, (2) his citizenship records in Indonesia and (3) his application papers to Columbia.
The Indonesian embassy is supporting Obama's contention that he was never an Indonesian citizen. At what price this support?
If you could forward your communications and responses to Strunk he maybe able to make a case of fraud with the Judge...
Do you know that only records for her were destroyed? Sounds like the "clown" doesn't know what happened and is offering a possibility.
Like I said, I could make up stories, but that's all they would be - stories.
By the way ten dollars in 1960 would be equivalent to about 73 dollars today.
In 1965 it would take 8 hours work at minimum wage to pay for a passport. In 2009, it would take 13.75 hours at minimum wage. Don't know that that means anything, but there it is.
Perfect theory except for one little detail - Indonesia didn't allow dual citizenship and the US does not permit a loose of citizenship for a minor child thingie.
I’d like to see Lester Kinsolving ask WHPS Robert Gibbs who Barry Soebarkah is at the next press briefing.
Technically, under that situation, the U.S. would be unable to protect the citizenship of such a child. That’s why they have the Hague Convetion for adoptions, but unfortunately Indonesia historically has not signed on.
If the facts are wrong, what need is there for a coverup?
Wait. Trolls aren't the sharpest tools in the drawer...
Like I said, I could make up stories, but that’s all they would be - stories.
I’m sure we will hear some excuses soon here..
Makes me wonder if the powers to be decided to throw obama under the bus with this release...missing records gives them plausible deniability
By jove I think you’ve got it. Get the information to all the lawyers that currently have cases pending....
This is very significant. As significant as the IBM selector typewriter in the Rather fraud.
I’d even send it to FOX, RUSH and BECK just to see if they’d do anything with it.
Question: What was the age of majority in the early 1960s?
If it’s true as some are saying that BHO would’ve been listed on SAD’s passport because he was a minor, then given that she was not yet 18 in 1960 until November of that year, if she did have a previous passport then wouldn’t she have by necessity been listed on her own mother’s instead of one of her own?
If the age for obtaining an individual passport as an adult was 21 then SAD’s first opportunity to get one would’ve been November 1963. They were at that time good for 3 years with a 2 year renewal/extension possible. So why would she have needed one in 1965 if she’d had obtained one in 1963.
The only way I can see SAD having her own adult passport before the 1965 one is if the legal age was 18 and she’d gotten one almost immediately upon her birthday. Otherwise, maybe the person requesting the documents through FOIA, should look at granny Maddie’s 50’s & 60’s passport apps.
I know & it got me to thinking...genealogy. there is a reason records are kept. We are a nation of immigrants and tracking family ancestry is a HUGE deal. The census dept also uses these records, thus even a more pertinent reason NOT to destroy records.
Why would she get one at age eighteen unless she was planning on traveling out of the country? When and where did she go? If she was traveling alone she would not have been on M’s passport. OTOH checking all angles out is a good idea.
no a child could get their own passport before age 18 i and a sibling were on my mothers until my older sibling got their own, then i was in my moms without my older sibling, then later when i was around 8 i got my own. i was a darling kid in my passport photo..
Not necessarily. If parent and child are listed on the same passport than neither can travel without the other.
Indonesia could not terminate Obama's citizenship. Obama's mother could not renounce his citizenship, and Obama, himself, as a child could not renounce his citizenship. In other words, the US protects the child's citizenship by not allowing it to be lost, renounced, terminated, or any other word you want to use.
Indonesia does not make US law, the government of the United State does and the United States, ALONE, decides who are its citizens.
Obama Trip to Indonesia Would Counter Chinese Charm
The part of Indonesian law that provides that a child under five adopted by an Indonesian father is an Indonesian citizen is automatic. Unlike other provisions, it does not require that the child take any action to renounce some other citizenship.
You are right that little Barry’s status under the Indonesian statutes did not terminate his US citizenship. It is not easy for a minor to affirmatively renounce US citizenship. And he was not required to do so under that Indonesian provision.
However, US law at the time Barack was in college provided that if an ADULT takes certain actions respect to establishing citizenship in another country (for example, obtaining a passport), then he loses US citizenship.
Did Barack, after turning 18, make an affirmative application to renew his Indonesian passport? That would appear sufficient under US law to cause him AT THAT TIME to lose his US citizenship, without the US state department necessarily even knowing about it.
Maybe Gibbels could answer this too:
WASHINGTON, July 29, 2010
Probe: U.S. Passports Still Vulnerable to Fraud
Undercover Investigators Get Real Passports from Fake Documents; Highlights National Security Lapses
(AP) Posing as someone else and using fake birth certificates and driver’s licenses still can obtain official U.S. passports.
For the second time in two years, government investigators exploited a gaping hole in the U.S. security system by deliberately using fraudulent material to apply for U.S. passports.
In a similar investigation in March 2009, government investigators used phony documents and the identities of a dead man and a 5-year-old boy to obtain U.S. passports. One investigator used the Social Security number of a man who died in 1965, a fake New York birth certificate and a fake Florida driver’s license. He received a passport four days later. In the latest ruse conducted between January and June of this year, investigators used a fake Florida birth certificate, fake West Virginia driver’s license and a recently issued Social Security number for a 62-year-old’s application. Cards for Social Security, the government agency to help retired Americans, normally are obtained when Americans are quite young, because every worker must pay into the system through the identifying number on the personalized card.
The same picture submitted with that application also was used for multiple applications under different names.
OOPS: forgot link
CSPAN had hearing coverage on passport fraud this week.
I had my first passport at 9 months — it was valid for 5 years.
IIRC the Haugue agreement did not allow for joint citizenship if one country was not in agreement. At the time BO was in Indonesia, their regime did not allow joint/dual citizenship.
If that was also the case in the 60's then perhaps that's why she took BHO "Soebarkah" off hers in 1968 - so he could travel back to HI without her.
Good point. As a baby I was on my mother’s passport, because obviously I wasn’t going anywhere alone. At age 9 I got my own. I’d like to see Stanley Ann’s previous passports.
Would you happen to know when the Hague Convention for adoptions was ratified by the United States?
If he is not a citizen, then we have a constitutional crisis. We would need the Army to take him out by force. He would then be locked up until some foreign country asked to have him. Probably Kenya.
If that is the explanation, then it would seem to me he is natural born despite not being a citizen.
With the earned income credit in 2009, it would only take an hour or two.
The letter was signed by a recent Obama appointed fair hair boy.
For what it’s worth, Sir John, this has been my gut feeling all along: That regardless of where he was born, the real clincher is that as an adult he might have tried to use Indonesian citizenship as a door-opener for obtaining benefits of some kind, most likely at Columbia University. Your avenue of investigation most surely needs further exploration.
I’m supposed to know the name of everyone’s mama? I don’t recall reading her name before.
You can’t say that anymore!
Many years ago I worked for a branch of the National Archives and Records Administration (at a Federal Records Center). Each of these branches kept (keep) an incredible volume of material.
Each center would have a master record of where sets of documents were maintained—say a few cubic feet of records, or, in the case of tax records, thousands of cubic feet. Within each set would be documents kept in their original filing order (numeric or alphabetic).
If a request from some quarter was made to get one of those documents, a paper form was completed in duplicate, which included the row in the center where the document set was located. We would go to the row, identify the box containing the document, find the box, locate the individual document, and leave one copy of the form, attach the other copy of the request form to the requested document and send it on its way.
It was cumbersome and not simply a matter of randomly going to a row and a box to find what you wanted. There was a methodical system.
All of this to say, for someone to have found out about Stanley Anne’s original passport record and then to go to the actual location to remove the record, it could only have been done with intention, and with assistance of someone at the National Archives who would have knowledge where the records were held.
And for multiple records of differing types (passport, birth certificate, adoption, marriage licenses, etc.), held by different levels of government to all conveniently disappear suggests a very clear pattern of conspiracy to deceive.
Those documents disappeared with the help of a fair number of people.
One thing the researcher should seek is a master list of requests for documents for a given period. While the actual document (the passport application), might not still exist, the request to pull that document at the Federal Records Center may still exist. That was the audit control feature to make sure you could account for where documents were if not in the original set of archived materials.
If she got the original passport in late 1960 or early 1961, she was already pregnant. It was purposeful, not for some youthful adventure or family vacation.
He almost likely was. In Hawaii. By Lolo Soetoro.
He most likely was. In Hawaii. By Lolo Soetoro.
Info already known but added here for reference:
Stanley Ann got her SS number
was issued in 535-40: Washington, 1959-1960
But the APPLICATION does ask where and when you plan to travel, or at least it does now. And my recollection is that it did in the mid 70s when I applied for my first passport.
According to the family story, they moved to Hawaii in 1960.
I can, but now that I know her name, I won’t.
I had a passport of my own when I was 9 or 10. In 1959 or 60. Not on my parents’.
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