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To: exDemMom
What property of CO2 allows it to heat the atmosphere beyond the heating it receives from the sun?

The ability of CO2 to absorb and emit infrared radiation while transmitting visible light.

Actually, the fluorescence of CO2 within the IR portion of the spectrum is absolutely meaningless. If you understand fluorescence,...

The central proposed mechanism by which carbon dioxide is supposed to produce the greenhouse effect does not involve fluorescence. There are some other errors you make in this same paragraph. If you are going to criticize a theory, you have to at least understand what it is.

By the way, I am not claiming AGW is a measurable effect, just that you don't know what the theory really says.

No one is claiming that CO2 creates energy that wasn't there.

If you take the proponents of human caused global warming at face value, then you have to conclude that they ARE saying that CO2 increases the total energy of the atmosphere.

That's right, but they don't claim that the energy comes from nowhere, just that more of the sun's energy is stored in the atmosphere until it reaches equilibrium at a higher temperature. The greenhouse effect has to do with the balance between energy coming from the sun and energy re-radiated back into space from the earth.

Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, like other greenhouse gases, supposedly reflects some of the infrared radiation coming from the earth back down again. Since this role of carbon dioxide does not involve a change of wavelength, it is not a fluorescence phenomenon. The only change of wavelength in the theory is that the visible light from the sun heats the earth and this results in infrared radiation back towards space.

29 posted on 08/15/2010 1:41:48 AM PDT by wideminded
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To: wideminded
What property of CO2 allows it to heat the atmosphere beyond the heating it receives from the sun?

The ability of CO2 to absorb and emit infrared radiation while transmitting visible light.

Actually, the fluorescence of CO2 within the IR portion of the spectrum is absolutely meaningless. If you understand fluorescence,...

The central proposed mechanism by which carbon dioxide is supposed to produce the greenhouse effect does not involve fluorescence. There are some other errors you make in this same paragraph. If you are going to criticize a theory, you have to at least understand what it is.

I do not know (since I can't look over previous posts right this moment) if it was you or someone else who claimed that the "greenhouse" effect is caused by the ability of CO2 to absorb and emit infrared radiation--but that IS the definition of fluorescence: the absorbance of radiation at a specific wavelength, and its emission at a slightly longer, lower energy wavelength. Since that is one of the MAJOR mechanisms proposed, that is supposedly unique to CO2 and to no other gas, which would explain its incredible ability to heat up the Earth--that is what I focus on. I purposely leave out all the other mechanisms in which CO2 acts like every other gas--they are not pertinent to the discussion, and add unnecessary complication.

I would counter that, in order to promote a theory, you should at least understand what it is.

By the way, I am not claiming AGW is a measurable effect, just that you don't know what the theory really says.

I have challenged AGW proponents several times to explain the properties of CO2 that would enable it to have these incredible warming properties, and all they come up with is that CO2 has fluorescent properties within the IR range of the spectrum (as someone stated above), or that CO2 is reflective to IR (as I quote you below). It looks to me like it's the AGW proponents who don't know what their own theory really says.

No one is claiming that CO2 creates energy that wasn't there.

Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, like other greenhouse gases, supposedly reflects some of the infrared radiation coming from the earth back down again. Since this role of carbon dioxide does not involve a change of wavelength, it is not a fluorescence phenomenon. The only change of wavelength in the theory is that the visible light from the sun heats the earth and this results in infrared radiation back towards space.

If CO2 is merely acting as a mirror to IR radiation, then its effect is completely non-directional. It cannot reflect the IR radiation preferentially back to Earth; it would reflect it in all directions, incoming as well as outgoing, with a net effect of zero.

35 posted on 08/19/2010 6:07:10 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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