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8/27 & 8/28: Glenn Beck’s Divine Destiny: Evangelicals Without The Evangel
www.caffeinatedthoughts.com ^ | August 20, 2010 | David Shedlock

Posted on 08/20/2010 6:26:07 AM PDT by grassboots.org

Desert Scene

Mormon talk show host Glenn Beck has added an event called “Divine Destiny” to his Washington, DC rally schedule where “nationally-known religious figures from all faiths will unite to deliver messages reminiscent to those given during the struggles of America's earliest days.” Beck continues:

I have met with the biggest leaders of faith in the country privately and I have asked them to help me put differences aside and to reach out with one another so we can remind people to get down on their knees for our brothers' shield in our danger's hour.

You will fully understand on 8 28 what is about to happen to this country and who is coming, who is willing to stand. I have been telling you for awhile this will be a historic moment. I promise you that it will be. I promise you. I have promised you before and I have personally seen them already. I have told you, prepare to witness mighty and powerful miracles. I have already seen them. What you will witness on September 28th, the beginning of a restoration you and your children will never forget.

Who are these big name faith leaders Beck has been talking to? He has dropped numerous hints that a couple of guests on stage August 28th for his Restoring Honor rally will be huge shockers as they show their solidarity with Glenn’s plans and perhaps affirm his own faith tradition, Mormonism. Does Beck refuse to give their names because there remains the possibility they will still back out? One could hope.

There is speculation that two surprise guests could be Billy Graham and Pope Benedict. It is not hard to imagine Billy Graham appearing in person, if his health permits.

(Excerpt) Read more at caffeinatedthoughts.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: beck; benedict; billygraham; christianity; glennbeck; mormons; pimpmyblog; popebenedict
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1 posted on 08/20/2010 6:26:12 AM PDT by grassboots.org
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To: grassboots.org

Well he said Palin is going to be there only to introduce the secret speakers. ??? Holy Cow Batman!


2 posted on 08/20/2010 6:29:29 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (m)
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To: screaminsunshine

I thought he said Sarah was going to be there to introduce the military heroes?


3 posted on 08/20/2010 6:31:11 AM PDT by ConjunctionJunction (I can see November from my house!)
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To: screaminsunshine

I thought Palin was there to introduce mothers of soldiers.


4 posted on 08/20/2010 6:33:20 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: grassboots.org

Since Beck doesn’t have a problem with gay marriage, I will pass on his event.


5 posted on 08/20/2010 6:33:47 AM PDT by MBB1984
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To: grassboots.org

Dunno. Seems to be a big mystery. No signs allowed??? Why? That takes a lot of the fun out of it. I like the signs.


6 posted on 08/20/2010 6:34:55 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (m)
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To: grassboots.org

“I have met with the biggest leaders of faith...”

Yeah? Who would that be?


7 posted on 08/20/2010 6:35:40 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: grassboots.org

What are “ICLES”?


8 posted on 08/20/2010 6:35:56 AM PDT by TexasPatriot1 (Legalize the Constitution)
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To: grassboots.org

Who cares? Has someone got you handcuffed and dragging you to the event? Or are you subscribing to Nazi Pelosi’s contention we should investigate everyone we disagree with?


9 posted on 08/20/2010 6:36:41 AM PDT by mazda77 (Rubio for US Senate - West FL22nd - Hayworth for US Senate - Scott for FL Gov.)
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To: TexasPatriot1

Damn keyboard!!! What are “ICALS”?


10 posted on 08/20/2010 6:37:32 AM PDT by TexasPatriot1 (Legalize the Constitution)
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To: grassboots.org
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14

When it comes to putting aside our differences, one difference cannot be put aside, "Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?"

11 posted on 08/20/2010 6:37:36 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever ( Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness)
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To: screaminsunshine

“That takes a lot of the fun out of it. I like the signs.”

Beck is clear that this is not about politics, it’s about religion. Would you let signs in your church service?


12 posted on 08/20/2010 6:37:57 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: grassboots.org
What you will witness on SeptemberAugust 28th, the beginning of a restoration you and your children will never forget.

So... exactly what will we witness Glenn??

Sorry, not enough info to get me to DC.

13 posted on 08/20/2010 6:38:20 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: screaminsunshine

As evidenced by the 9/12 rally, the signs will be what the media focuses on instead of the message, whatever it is. If there are no signs to distract the focus challenged media, they just might do their job (unwhittingly) and report on the message of the event.


14 posted on 08/20/2010 6:40:20 AM PDT by mazda77 (Rubio for US Senate - West FL22nd - Hayworth for US Senate - Scott for FL Gov.)
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To: grassboots.org

I had no idea GB was mormon


15 posted on 08/20/2010 6:40:24 AM PDT by SaintDismas
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To: mazda77

I care for the same reason you care enough to post a reply. Did I ask that he be investigated? Or is that a red herring?


16 posted on 08/20/2010 6:43:33 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: mazda77

Never will the media be fair and honest in reporting conservative events. You are dreaming. I think a full out attack is the best plan when you have them on the ropes. Pound them!


17 posted on 08/20/2010 6:43:54 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (m)
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To: mazda77

You expect the MSM to report this event? Really?


18 posted on 08/20/2010 6:46:06 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: grassboots.org
(Glen Beck) is bringing American History to the forefront which makes those who are anti-American uneasy. His history lessons should make even Mr. Graham blush....Beck understands “Divine Destiny” i.e. "insight"...might be one explanation - Man wills and God Creates is another way of looking at Divine Destiny. What ever the answer, Glenn Beck and his guests have a powerful way of teaching. Being Mormon, Catholic, Jewish, are not what Beck teaches about; he teaches us history and keeps God in His proper place.
19 posted on 08/20/2010 6:48:15 AM PDT by yoe ("N" is for NO for Progressives in government.)
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To: grassboots.org

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” 2 John 7

It could be that the Lord is putting the American Church to a test - Which is your greater love? Your American heritage or the Gospel? Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to occur to some of these leaders that God would demand such a choice of them at some point.


20 posted on 08/20/2010 6:49:27 AM PDT by Madam Theophilus
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To: stars & stripes forever
When it comes to putting aside our differences, one difference cannot be put aside, "Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?"

Absolutely! The one difference that counts for eternity.

21 posted on 08/20/2010 6:49:39 AM PDT by thethirddegree
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To: grassboots.org
Does Beck refuse to give their names because there remains the possibility they will still back out? One could hope.

Would you like some tartar sauce with it?.

22 posted on 08/20/2010 6:50:34 AM PDT by mazda77 (Rubio for US Senate - West FL22nd - Hayworth for US Senate - Scott for FL Gov.)
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To: SevenofNine
"I don’t think the Pope will appear in person, though perhaps he too will prepare a brief video greeting for the crowd..."


23 posted on 08/20/2010 6:51:01 AM PDT by monkapotamus
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To: TexasPatriot1

ICALS

“ical” is a suffix added to nouns to make them adjectival. Sometimes from use, the adjectives become nouns again, often meaning one who holds to or is associated with the original noun.

Examples: botanical, puritanical, clerical.


24 posted on 08/20/2010 6:51:08 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: yoe
he teaches us history and keeps God in His proper place.

And what is the proper place for God Almighty? He is #1 in all things. He is the Creator who created you. I think you should read the book of Job to get your priorities straight.

25 posted on 08/20/2010 6:52:56 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever ( Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness)
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To: wintertime

They have their template of Tea Partiers being racist with their “racist” signs. So what will they report on if their are no signs? I’m not saying they will puposely report on the substance but insteat “unwhittingly” do so in their effor to report anything.


26 posted on 08/20/2010 6:53:57 AM PDT by mazda77 (Rubio for US Senate - West FL22nd - Hayworth for US Senate - Scott for FL Gov.)
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To: stars & stripes forever

My remark is a little wobbly, but I mean that God is kept in His proper place....the whole picture...not just every now and then....love the book of Job...


27 posted on 08/20/2010 6:56:48 AM PDT by yoe ("N" is for NO for Progressives in government.)
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To: stars & stripes forever

I was thinking Lamentations at this day and age.


28 posted on 08/20/2010 6:56:52 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: yoe
Beck understands “Divine Destiny”.. Yes, he does. It is a distinctly Mormon idea: The founding documents were divinely inspired, paving the way for Joseph Smith to preach his restored "gospel" "Glenn Beck and his guests have a powerful way of teaching. Being Mormon, Catholic, Jewish, are not what Beck teaches about; he teaches us history and keeps God in His proper place." No, Beck teaches Mormon doctrine every day. I agree Catholics, Jews, and Christians won't be teaching their Doctrines. And it won't be about God with a capital "G", but rather a human god.
29 posted on 08/20/2010 6:59:58 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: Madam Theophilus

It is unthinkable to so many that God might demand that we side with him against our own country.


30 posted on 08/20/2010 7:03:13 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: MBB1984
Since Beck doesn’t have a problem with gay marriage, I will pass on his event.

So, you are willing to let the country slip into insolvency (to be repaid by our children and grandchildren) and anarchy due to this one "dear to your heart" issue not covered here?

31 posted on 08/20/2010 7:05:53 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: The_Media_never_lie; MBB1984

So, not attending this rally will cause the country to slip into insolvency? Perhaps, MSS is waiting to attend events in keeping with whatever he or she thinks is a priority, rather than being shamed or bullied into attending this religious rally.

Hint: This event has NOTHING to do with economic deficits.


32 posted on 08/20/2010 7:11:55 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: SaintDismas

“I had no idea GB was mormon”

It’s not a disease. Glenn has said that Jesus is his saviour. Good enough for me.


33 posted on 08/20/2010 7:23:52 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: MBB1984
...and out of ALL this posted here...THAT's what you gleaned from all the goodness? Really?

I agree with you, but if 99% of what's being done is good, and the 1% isn't part of the program, or being discussed....I've just got two words, "baby" and "bathwater"

34 posted on 08/20/2010 7:27:40 AM PDT by NordP (COMMON SENSE CONSERVATIVES - Love of Country, Less Govt, Stop Spending, No Govt Run Health Care!!!)
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To: grassboots.org

“No, Beck teaches Mormon doctrine every day.”

You are incorrect.


35 posted on 08/20/2010 7:29:48 AM PDT by Reddy (B.O. stinks)
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To: grassboots.org
This is the problem. You can't get past the fact that Glenn is a Mormon. What is wrong with that? They have some odd ideas compared to Baptists, but so do Catholics. Everything I have heard Glenn say, is totally in line with my main stream evangelical Christian faith. We need to come together on the basic tenants of Christianity, instead of looking for ways to divide us.

Romans 14:1
[ The Weak and the Strong ] Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

36 posted on 08/20/2010 7:38:51 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: grassboots.org
Hint: This event has NOTHING to do with economic deficits.

I fully support MSS privilege to attend/not attend any event he/she wishes without shame.

This event has everything to do with economic deficits.

37 posted on 08/20/2010 7:41:36 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: grassboots.org
So, not attending this rally will cause the country to slip into insolvency?

If absolutely no one attended, except Beck and Palin, it probably would.

38 posted on 08/20/2010 7:43:40 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: grassboots.org

“Mormon talk show host Glenn Beck”

Does Glenn also do a “Mormon talk show”? I didn’t know that.


39 posted on 08/20/2010 7:46:01 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: Reddy

What does it mean to have a divine nature and destiny?” Mormonism teaches that “Men are Gods in Embryo,” “Man is… capable…of evolving into a God,” and that, “You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves.” http://evidenceministries.org


40 posted on 08/20/2010 7:48:44 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever ( Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness)
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To: faucetman

“Glenn has said that Jesus is his saviour. Good enough for me.”

I wasn’t enough for Jesus (or Paul). Saying is not the same thing as reality. The Jesus Beck believes is saving him is not the Jesus of the Bible.


41 posted on 08/20/2010 7:59:03 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: stars & stripes forever

QUESTIONS TO ASK ON YOUR TEMPLE TOUR taken from http://evidenceminitries.org

In the most recent edition of our monthly newsletter, Backpacks and Briefcases, our feature article addressed questions that might be good to ask on your temple tour. Since the article appeared in our newsletter, we have had an opportunity to tour the temple twice. Those opportunities brought to mind other questions that could be raised when the opportunity presents itself. This article will include our new questions followed by our previous ones.

Sacred Covenants

Your tour will begin with a short video that interviews Mormons who explain how grateful they are to finally have a temple in San Antonio. The video briefly introduces the significance of temples within Mormon theology.

There is one place in the video that shows a picture of the Old Testament tabernacle and mentions that, “sacred covenants must be performed in temples that are essential for salvation.” If this is true, then the obvious question is, “What are those essential covenants and where can I read about them in the Bible?”

You may get an answer that First Kings 7:23-25 or Second Chronicles 4:2-6 mentions these covenants. These passages only mention the “Sea” in Solomon’s temple where the priests would wash. There is no mention of essential covenants.

Another possible answer is First Corinthians 15:29 which mentions baptism for the dead. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” Notice in this verse that Paul uses the personal pronoun “they” as a description of those who are baptized for the dead. In verse 30 he switches to “we.” If he was speaking of a Christian practice, he would have said that “we” are baptized for the dead. Notice also that there is nothing in this passage that mentions covenants that are “essential” for salvation.

At this point it may be a good idea to ask, “Since you cannot find a passage in the Bible that speaks of these essential covenants, can you show me a passage in the Book of Mormon that mentions them? Once the Mormon realizes that there is nothing in either book that mentions these “essential” covenants, an obvious question comes to mind. “If these covenants are essential, why can’t I read about them in the Bible or the Book of Mormon?

Heaven without your spouse

There is another section of the video that provides us with a question to ask. Mormon Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland shares an emotional moment and says something like, “I can’t picture heaven without my wife. It just wouldn’t be the same.” Mr. Holland does not quite come to tears, but the impression is, that he is trying to imagine being in heaven without his wife and is having difficulty with the thought. The difficulty is so great that one wonders if Mr. Holland would be satisfied in heaven with only God, if his wife did not qualify.

An appropriate question for a missionary would be, “If your spouse did not make it to heaven, whom would you choose to live with for eternity; God or your spouse?”

Regardless of the answer given, the Mormon is caught between two conflicting ideas. If the Mormon answers that they would choose to live with God, then that totally defeats the idea of being exalted as a family unit. Living with God as an exalted being is impossible without your spouse.

If they answer that they would choose their mate instead of God, then they are in violation of Matthew 10:37- “He that loveth Father of Mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” If we choose our family members above God, then we are not worthy of Him. Placing anything before God is idolatry. Idolaters will be outside of the presence of God throughout eternity (Revelation 22:14-15)- “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

Where is the Cross?

As you begin the tour, your tour guide will point out the imagery of the temple. The decorations of the temple are ornate and extremely symbolic. Meticulous thought has gone into almost every detail of the temple. The elevation rises slightly as you go from one room to another. Even the color of the wood stain lightens as your tour progresses closer to the Celestial room.

The first room on the tour is the baptismal room where baptisms for the dead are performed. As you stand in front of the baptismal font, which rests on the back of 12 oxen, you will notice a picture on the right side of the room of Jesus praying in the garden of Gethsemane. Mormonism teaches that Jesus atoned for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane and not just on the cross. In recent years acknowledgment of the crucifixion as part of the atonement has increased within Mormon doctrine, but Mormonism is still adamant about the idea that Jesus took upon Himself the sins of the world in the garden of Gethsemane. This fact is demonstrated in this room by the picture of Jesus in Gethsemane. There are many pictures of the life of Christ in the temple, but no crosses or pictures of the cross are to be found anywhere in the temple.

An appropriate question would be, “Why are there no crosses in the temple?” The typical answer is that Mormons choose to focus on Jesus being alive instead of dead. That may seem like a satisfactory answer, but in the light of Galatians 6:14, another question comes to mind. “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I unto the world.” Ask, “If the Apostle Paul thinks it is proper to brag about the cross, why should Christians avoid using it?”

Paul also said in 1st Corinthians 1:18- “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” A follow-up question would be, “Since the temple uses so much symbolism, and the cross symbolizes the power of God, why wouldn’t God want the symbol of His power in or on His house?”

The Veil

In one of the “instruction rooms” three walls look normal, but in the front of the room there is a curtain. Ask what the curtain is. Answers sometime vary, but if the tour guide tells you that it is symbolic of the veil that separated the Holy room from the Holy of Holies, remind the tour guide that the veil was torn in two after the death of Christ. An appropriate question is, “If God tore down the veil in the temple, why did your Church sew it back up and re-hang it?”

Divine destiny

Your tour will conclude with a visit to the hospitality tent. There is an endless supply of punch and cookies. In the center of the tables there are comment cards to fill out and some literature made available for reading at your leisure.

One of the publications is a 16 page brochure that explains some of the beliefs of the Mormons Church. On page seven is an article titled, “The Family—A Proclamation To The World. The second paragraph reads, “All Human Beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny.”

Ask, “What does it mean to have a divine nature and destiny?” Mormonism teaches that “Men are Gods in Embryo,” “Man is… capable…of evolving into a God,” and that, “You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves.” (Achieving A Celestial Marriage- Student Manual, P. 130)

Experience has shown that workers in the hospitality tent are taught to give less than forthright answers. An example of this was at the Houston, Texas, temple opening in the year 2000. One sister missionary replied, “We aren’t suppose to get into the doctrinal stuff. We were told to be vague and smile a lot.”

If the answer you are given is not satisfactory, ask the hospitality volunteer a direct question. “Do you believe that it is possible to become a God?” They may reply that they hope to be more like Christ or more like Heavenly Father, but that does not answer the question. If, at this point, they refuse to answer you directly, ask if they are ashamed of their answer.

Original article in April 2005 Backpack & Briefcases

As the open house of the San Antonio Mormon Temple approaches, we would like to devote this month’s article specifically to equip our readers with a few ideas about what to expect upon taking the tour of the temple and suggest some ways to be an effective seed-planter for the Lord Jesus Christ.

In all of our training sessions, we advise Christians to use questions when witnessing for a few distinct reasons. First, Jesus taught by asking questions. Questions cause us to have to formulate an answer in our mind to answer those who are asking. This is the process we want Mormons to have to go through…thinking. Even if they don’t verbalize their answer, they are thinking about their answer and this can plant permanent seeds of doubt in their mind. If I volunteer the answer and don’t wait patiently for them to formulate one, they can easily dismiss my answer. It’s harder for them to dismiss an answer that they themselves have thought. As one former JW elder put it, “Question marks are shaped like hooks, with which we can draw out an answer.”

At most Mormon temple openings, the typical routine includes viewing a video about the LDS church, walking through a guided-tour of the building, and then a time for refreshments and mingling with LDS members and missionaries. Some tour guides may solicit questions throughout the tour as they discuss various rooms; while other tour guides may host a silent tour and ask for questions afterwards.

The most important part of your preparation for this event is prayer. Do not expect to be able to visit this stronghold in our community and witness for the Lord Jesus unless you have petitioned the God of miracles to open the eyes of the blinded. As a suggestion, a few passages of scripture to meditate on include: II Corinthians 4:1-6, II Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:10-20, Acts 26:18.

Questions to cause the Mormon people to think about their religion don’t always have to be “deep” or even theological in nature.

1. During the beginning of the tour, visitors will be shown a front desk where members show their temple recommend to the temple worker in order to gain admittance into the temple. The tour guide explains that not all church members receive a temple recommend; They have to be “worthy” members, who are living the standards of the LDS church. Then you will be shown a locker room where temple patrons store their personal belongings during their time in the temple. Ask the tour guide or missionary why they need locks on the lockers if everyone inside is such a “worthy” member.

2. Ask a church representative “Who the golden man blowing his horn at the top of the temple?” After they explain that this is the angel Moroni and that he was a valiant character from the Book of Mormon who later appeared as an angel to Joseph Smith to herald the restoration of the gospel, then clarify a few things with them. Make sure they have told you that he was a man who died and became an angel. Then ask them, “Is our goal after death to become an angel?” Mormonism teaches that men have the potential to become Gods.

3. An easy way to get an LDS member to question what they’ve been taught is to ask them to teach you. After your tour is complete and you are in the refreshment area, ask a church member, “Can you show me in the Bible or the Book of Mormon where baptisms or weddings are done in a temple?” This will be quite a struggle, as this information is absent from both of these books. If they attempt to take you to another source, ask why their most important book, the Book of Mormon does not contain this essential information.

These questions are not that complex, but there are many that can be asked that get more involved. Here are a few suggestions:

4. One of the main teachings of the LDS church is that families can be together forever. This idea begins with the teaching of celestial marriage. A man and woman are married in the temple to have their marriage sealed “for time and all eternity.” This ceremony guarantees that they will remain married even if the hereafter. This doctrine is usually touched on in the temple tour, so it will be easy to talk about with a Mormon after the tour is completed. Simply ask the church member, “If marriages performed in the temple are eternal, can one partner re-marry after their spouse dies?” The Mormon will assure you that the surviving spouse is permitted to re-marry. The question is, “How is that not considered adultery?” When you ask that question, focus on the wife outliving her husband. Men can be sealed to more than one woman in heaven, but women are to be with only one man. If the woman is married for eternity to her dead husband, how can she marry someone else when she is still married to her dead husband? Even if it is only temporal wouldn’t that be considered an affair?

5. A final idea for a question to ask deals with the most important topic for anyone in this world; where they will spend eternity. After your tour, ask the Mormon “Is this temple necessary for you to live with God?” The answer to this question will be ’Yes’. Then ask the question, “Where in the Book of Mormon (BOM) does it state this?” Be sure to ask this question in a manner that does not come across like a challenge, but a real probing question. The BOM says nothing about this doctrine at all, so our hope is that this fact will really bother the person you are speaking with as they struggle to find the reference.

Upon taking your temple tour, please remember you are an ambassador for the Lord Jesus Christ who has been given the responsibility of representing Him to a lost world, including the extremely lost world of Mormonism. At all times, conduct yourselves in a kind, loving, respectful and compassionate way. Mormons are frequently told by their leaders that Evidence Ministries and others who witness to Mormons are full of hate for the Mormon people. We want our conduct toward them to make our love for them glaringly obvious. Our goal and our prayer for you, our readership, as you enter this stronghold of Satan, is that you will be able to lovingly challenge the claims of Mormonism.

QUESTIONS TO ASK ON YOUR TEMPLE TOUR

In the most recent edition of our monthly newsletter, Backpacks and Briefcases, our feature article addressed questions that might be good to ask on your temple tour. Since the article appeared in our newsletter, we have had an opportunity to tour the temple twice. Those opportunities brought to mind other questions that could be raised when the opportunity presents itself. This article will include our new questions followed by our previous ones.

Sacred Covenants

Your tour will begin with a short video that interviews Mormons who explain how grateful they are to finally have a temple in San Antonio. The video briefly introduces the significance of temples within Mormon theology.

There is one place in the video that shows a picture of the Old Testament tabernacle and mentions that, “sacred covenants must be performed in temples that are essential for salvation.” If this is true, then the obvious question is, “What are those essential covenants and where can I read about them in the Bible?”

You may get an answer that First Kings 7:23-25 or Second Chronicles 4:2-6 mentions these covenants. These passages only mention the “Sea” in Solomon’s temple where the priests would wash. There is no mention of essential covenants.

Another possible answer is First Corinthians 15:29 which mentions baptism for the dead. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” Notice in this verse that Paul uses the personal pronoun “they” as a description of those who are baptized for the dead. In verse 30 he switches to “we.” If he was speaking of a Christian practice, he would have said that “we” are baptized for the dead. Notice also that there is nothing in this passage that mentions covenants that are “essential” for salvation.

At this point it may be a good idea to ask, “Since you cannot find a passage in the Bible that speaks of these essential covenants, can you show me a passage in the Book of Mormon that mentions them? Once the Mormon realizes that there is nothing in either book that mentions these “essential” covenants, an obvious question comes to mind. “If these covenants are essential, why can’t I read about them in the Bible or the Book of Mormon?

Heaven without your spouse

There is another section of the video that provides us with a question to ask. Mormon Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland shares an emotional moment and says something like, “I can’t picture heaven without my wife. It just wouldn’t be the same.” Mr. Holland does not quite come to tears, but the impression is, that he is trying to imagine being in heaven without his wife and is having difficulty with the thought. The difficulty is so great that one wonders if Mr. Holland would be satisfied in heaven with only God, if his wife did not qualify.

An appropriate question for a missionary would be, “If your spouse did not make it to heaven, whom would you choose to live with for eternity; God or your spouse?”

Regardless of the answer given, the Mormon is caught between two conflicting ideas. If the Mormon answers that they would choose to live with God, then that totally defeats the idea of being exalted as a family unit. Living with God as an exalted being is impossible without your spouse.

If they answer that they would choose their mate instead of God, then they are in violation of Matthew 10:37- “He that loveth Father of Mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” If we choose our family members above God, then we are not worthy of Him. Placing anything before God is idolatry. Idolaters will be outside of the presence of God throughout eternity (Revelation 22:14-15)- “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

Where is the Cross?

As you begin the tour, your tour guide will point out the imagery of the temple. The decorations of the temple are ornate and extremely symbolic. Meticulous thought has gone into almost every detail of the temple. The elevation rises slightly as you go from one room to another. Even the color of the wood stain lightens as your tour progresses closer to the Celestial room.

The first room on the tour is the baptismal room where baptisms for the dead are performed. As you stand in front of the baptismal font, which rests on the back of 12 oxen, you will notice a picture on the right side of the room of Jesus praying in the garden of Gethsemane. Mormonism teaches that Jesus atoned for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane and not just on the cross. In recent years acknowledgment of the crucifixion as part of the atonement has increased within Mormon doctrine, but Mormonism is still adamant about the idea that Jesus took upon Himself the sins of the world in the garden of Gethsemane. This fact is demonstrated in this room by the picture of Jesus in Gethsemane. There are many pictures of the life of Christ in the temple, but no crosses or pictures of the cross are to be found anywhere in the temple.

An appropriate question would be, “Why are there no crosses in the temple?” The typical answer is that Mormons choose to focus on Jesus being alive instead of dead. That may seem like a satisfactory answer, but in the light of Galatians 6:14, another question comes to mind. “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I unto the world.” Ask, “If the Apostle Paul thinks it is proper to brag about the cross, why should Christians avoid using it?”

Paul also said in 1st Corinthians 1:18- “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” A follow-up question would be, “Since the temple uses so much symbolism, and the cross symbolizes the power of God, why wouldn’t God want the symbol of His power in or on His house?”

The Veil

In one of the “instruction rooms” three walls look normal, but in the front of the room there is a curtain. Ask what the curtain is. Answers sometime vary, but if the tour guide tells you that it is symbolic of the veil that separated the Holy room from the Holy of Holies, remind the tour guide that the veil was torn in two after the death of Christ. An appropriate question is, “If God tore down the veil in the temple, why did your Church sew it back up and re-hang it?”

Divine destiny

Your tour will conclude with a visit to the hospitality tent. There is an endless supply of punch and cookies. In the center of the tables there are comment cards to fill out and some literature made available for reading at your leisure.

One of the publications is a 16 page brochure that explains some of the beliefs of the Mormons Church. On page seven is an article titled, “The Family—A Proclamation To The World. The second paragraph reads, “All Human Beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny.”

Ask, “What does it mean to have a divine nature and destiny?” Mormonism teaches that “Men are Gods in Embryo,” “Man is… capable…of evolving into a God,” and that, “You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves.” (Achieving A Celestial Marriage- Student Manual, P. 130)

Experience has shown that workers in the hospitality tent are taught to give less than forthright answers. An example of this was at the Houston, Texas, temple opening in the year 2000. One sister missionary replied, “We aren’t suppose to get into the doctrinal stuff. We were told to be vague and smile a lot.”

If the answer you are given is not satisfactory, ask the hospitality volunteer a direct question. “Do you believe that it is possible to become a God?” They may reply that they hope to be more like Christ or more like Heavenly Father, but that does not answer the question. If, at this point, they refuse to answer you directly, ask if they are ashamed of their answer.

Original article in April 2005 Backpack & Briefcases

As the open house of the San Antonio Mormon Temple approaches, we would like to devote this month’s article specifically to equip our readers with a few ideas about what to expect upon taking the tour of the temple and suggest some ways to be an effective seed-planter for the Lord Jesus Christ.

In all of our training sessions, we advise Christians to use questions when witnessing for a few distinct reasons. First, Jesus taught by asking questions. Questions cause us to have to formulate an answer in our mind to answer those who are asking. This is the process we want Mormons to have to go through…thinking. Even if they don’t verbalize their answer, they are thinking about their answer and this can plant permanent seeds of doubt in their mind. If I volunteer the answer and don’t wait patiently for them to formulate one, they can easily dismiss my answer. It’s harder for them to dismiss an answer that they themselves have thought. As one former JW elder put it, “Question marks are shaped like hooks, with which we can draw out an answer.”

At most Mormon temple openings, the typical routine includes viewing a video about the LDS church, walking through a guided-tour of the building, and then a time for refreshments and mingling with LDS members and missionaries. Some tour guides may solicit questions throughout the tour as they discuss various rooms; while other tour guides may host a silent tour and ask for questions afterwards.

The most important part of your preparation for this event is prayer. Do not expect to be able to visit this stronghold in our community and witness for the Lord Jesus unless you have petitioned the God of miracles to open the eyes of the blinded. As a suggestion, a few passages of scripture to meditate on include: II Corinthians 4:1-6, II Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:10-20, Acts 26:18.

Questions to cause the Mormon people to think about their religion don’t always have to be “deep” or even theological in nature.

1. During the beginning of the tour, visitors will be shown a front desk where members show their temple recommend to the temple worker in order to gain admittance into the temple. The tour guide explains that not all church members receive a temple recommend; They have to be “worthy” members, who are living the standards of the LDS church. Then you will be shown a locker room where temple patrons store their personal belongings during their time in the temple. Ask the tour guide or missionary why they need locks on the lockers if everyone inside is such a “worthy” member.

2. Ask a church representative “Who the golden man blowing his horn at the top of the temple?” After they explain that this is the angel Moroni and that he was a valiant character from the Book of Mormon who later appeared as an angel to Joseph Smith to herald the restoration of the gospel, then clarify a few things with them. Make sure they have told you that he was a man who died and became an angel. Then ask them, “Is our goal after death to become an angel?” Mormonism teaches that men have the potential to become Gods.

3. An easy way to get an LDS member to question what they’ve been taught is to ask them to teach you. After your tour is complete and you are in the refreshment area, ask a church member, “Can you show me in the Bible or the Book of Mormon where baptisms or weddings are done in a temple?” This will be quite a struggle, as this information is absent from both of these books. If they attempt to take you to another source, ask why their most important book, the Book of Mormon does not contain this essential information.

These questions are not that complex, but there are many that can be asked that get more involved. Here are a few suggestions:

4. One of the main teachings of the LDS church is that families can be together forever. This idea begins with the teaching of celestial marriage. A man and woman are married in the temple to have their marriage sealed “for time and all eternity.” This ceremony guarantees that they will remain married even if the hereafter. This doctrine is usually touched on in the temple tour, so it will be easy to talk about with a Mormon after the tour is completed. Simply ask the church member, “If marriages performed in the temple are eternal, can one partner re-marry after their spouse dies?” The Mormon will assure you that the surviving spouse is permitted to re-marry. The question is, “How is that not considered adultery?” When you ask that question, focus on the wife outliving her husband. Men can be sealed to more than one woman in heaven, but women are to be with only one man. If the woman is married for eternity to her dead husband, how can she marry someone else when she is still married to her dead husband? Even if it is only temporal wouldn’t that be considered an affair?

5. A final idea for a question to ask deals with the most important topic for anyone in this world; where they will spend eternity. After your tour, ask the Mormon “Is this temple necessary for you to live with God?” The answer to this question will be ’Yes’. Then ask the question, “Where in the Book of Mormon (BOM) does it state this?” Be sure to ask this question in a manner that does not come across like a challenge, but a real probing question. The BOM says nothing about this doctrine at all, so our hope is that this fact will really bother the person you are speaking with as they struggle to find the reference.

Upon taking your temple tour, please remember you are an ambassador for the Lord Jesus Christ who has been given the responsibility of representing Him to a lost world, including the extremely lost world of Mormonism. At all times, conduct yourselves in a kind, loving, respectful and compassionate way. Mormons are frequently told by their leaders that Evidence Ministries and others who witness to Mormons are full of hate for the Mormon people. We want our conduct toward them to make our love for them glaringly obvious. Our goal and our prayer for you, our readership, as you enter this stronghold of Satan, is that you will be able to lovingly challenge the claims of Mormonism.


42 posted on 08/20/2010 7:59:33 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever ( Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness)
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To: grassboots.org

Judging by Beck’s trashing of Birthers...and his de facto support of gay marraige....this “Dvinie Destiny” sounds much of neither.

Why no signs? Why no names listed of potential speakers? I am not sure if this is a new-age symposium or a multi-level marketing pitch.

I really feel for the 9/12 members...for they are being led astray. A lot of Beck’s schtick is so New Age-y


43 posted on 08/20/2010 8:00:41 AM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (JD for Senate ..... jdforsenate.com. You either voting for JD, or voting for the Liberal...)
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To: NordP

I wish people would consider your tagline:

COMMON SENSE CONSERVATIVES - Love of Country, Less Govt, Stop Spending, No Govt Run Health Care!!!


44 posted on 08/20/2010 8:04:03 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Reddy
“No, Beck teaches Mormon doctrine every day.” You are incorrect. I don't think I am. Every time Beck tells us that what Adam and Eve did in the garden was a benefical thing, he is giving Mormon Doctrine. Divine Destiny is the Mormon doctrine that the Constitution and Declaration of Independence paved the way for Joseph Smith. Every time he says Adam and Eve came down he is putting forth the LDS view that souls pre-existed. Yesterday he told us that his spirit children picked their parents, because Mormons apparently believe children in heaven can pick their parents. He believe restoration comes when start behaving rightly, rather than as a response to gospel preaching. That is just for starters...
45 posted on 08/20/2010 8:07:21 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
This event has everything to do with economic deficits. I agree that self-sufficincy reduces our dependence on government, but Beck's message is a mix of morality and false doctrine, insufficient to make a lasting difference.
46 posted on 08/20/2010 8:09:36 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: grassboots.org

Interesting points. I had this feeling Beck was “preaching” something....and I thought it was New age type of stuff. So, he actually preaches Mormonism?


47 posted on 08/20/2010 8:12:09 AM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (JD for Senate ..... jdforsenate.com. You either voting for JD, or voting for the Liberal...)
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To: faucetman
We need to come together on the basic tenants of Christianity, instead of looking for ways to divide us. Romans 14:1 [ The Weak and the Strong ] Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. I agree that many modern evangelicals don't know their Bibles of history enough to recognize that Mormon doctrines are spirtually toxic. However, the idea that God is eternal and was never a man is not disputable. That man will never become a god is not disputable. That salvation is by faith plus nothing is indisputable. That it does matter what God you serve is indisputable. Ask God.
48 posted on 08/20/2010 8:13:46 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior

There will be a lengthy post on Caffeinated Thoughts next Monday outlining Beck’s faith as stated in his own words. He not only is Mormon (which is his business, of course) but one that he brings out in all things religious he mentions.


49 posted on 08/20/2010 8:21:27 AM PDT by grassboots.org (I'll Say It Again - The First Freedom is Life.)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
Given all that we are seeing take place before our very eyes because we as individuals and as a nation have habitually and persistently rejected the Lord Jesus Christ, the very FOUNDER of our nation and heritage, it could very well be that America, as a DIRECT RESULT is under the divine judgment of Almighty God.

No matter how many patriotic, or "religious" events or meetings anyone holds, God HIMSELF may very well let America slip into insolvency (which, given the size of the debt may NEVER be repaid by our children and grandchildren) and anarchy.

Every other nation upon the face of the earth that has rejected the true and Living God has been destroyed or conquered by it's enemies. What makes us think that America is an exception to that rule or any different? If we look at the history of nations and what we are now experiencing, the answer is: there is NO DIFFERENCE between the fall of Greece, ROME and America

Right now America is following the same road to destruction as ROME. Nevertheless not even ROME at the height of it's immorality and corruption, or any other nation in the history of man has reached the level of utter total depravity that America has so as to officially sanction, promote, support and willfully recognize Sodomite "marriage", and then go on to" lead the world" in having other nations follow our wicked example.

Given the direction our nation has taken, it comes as no surprise that America is TOTALLY missing from biblical prophecy because we may be destroyed from within (most likely in light of what we can see taking place) or from without, or so neutered and impotent as a nation so as to be utterly irrelevant!

Do I like what I have said? Absolutely not, but we have to be honest; God keeps his Holy Word, it cannot be broken and America and Americans are not exempt or exceptions from the following dictum: "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man (or a nation) sows, this he will also reap." (Galatians 6:7)

50 posted on 08/20/2010 8:25:36 AM PDT by Jmouse007 (Heavenly Father, deliver us from evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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