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The Glenn Beck solution: turn to God. It is not so easy.
Big Bureaucracy ^ | August 30th, 2010 | Ellie Velinska

Posted on 08/30/2010 7:28:32 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy

Do you believe in God? Every time I answer the question honestly I lose friends. Still I tell the truth: I don’t believe in God. I don’t believe in the evolution either. I just believe we don’t have enough knowledge to know the world yet.

If you are still reading, I appreciate your tolerance.

Glenn Beck’s answer to America’s troubles is turning to God. Where does it leave us: the non believers? Beck’s solution reminds me of my godmother, who is a nun in an Eastern Orthodox Monastery on the Balkans.

When I visited her she answered every question I had with: you have to believe, you have to have faith, and you have to pray. That was the only answer to everything. She and Glenn Beck could be soul-mates.

She sensed it is hard for me to believe so she tried to teach me something simple: Just try to be good and keep praying ‘Lord forgive my sins’. That was kind of a ‘safety net’ advice she came-up with while trying to save my lost soul.

I think this is the answer: just be good. Do not lie, do not cheat, do not envy, do not steal, do not kill, respect your parents, do not idolize people, repent your sins and try to be good.

Does it really have to be in the name of God? Or just for goodness sake.

Mike Huckabee often says that if we agree on 7-8 things out of 10 – we still can be friends. Can God be one of the things we disagree on?

Half of the Americans don’t even agree on ‘do not kill’ and support abortions.

(Excerpt) Read more at bigbureaucracy.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: civilsociety; glennbeck; god; good; myblog; thecivilsociety
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1 posted on 08/30/2010 7:28:36 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy

It is healthy to question the existense of God, but pure insantity to deny the possibility.

God is everywhere and that is why so few people find him. They have no idea what to look for. God is the peace in a peaceful heart. And much much more, but this is a start


2 posted on 08/30/2010 7:32:19 AM PDT by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
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To: Big Bureaucracy
Where does it leave us: the non believers?

Lost in the dark without the one true light of Jesus.

3 posted on 08/30/2010 7:33:10 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: Big Bureaucracy
Everything is manufactured.
4 posted on 08/30/2010 7:39:28 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: All

Romans 1:20

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.


5 posted on 08/30/2010 7:39:58 AM PDT by sheikdetailfeather (Who needs an enemy when we have Barack Obama?)
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To: Big Bureaucracy

The problem there is that God himself requires belief in order to fulfill our beings, it is obvious regardless of our egos no one can be called good in the purest sense of the word, to be good one would have to grasp all things small and large and react with goodness. We as human beings only have a limited scope of vision, thus we hear Christ say, Father forgive them because they know not what they do. Certainly we should aspire to a higher morality and every moment we fail we should get up and try again.
Surely as God walks with His children and sees us fall, he does not kick us and say I am leaving, he helps us up and we continue, while we were down if we were to say God is not there, where would that take us, we would have no guide, what human can navigate infinity, each step to us is unknown, I am glad there is a God, one who loves us so much he would send his only son to die for our sins in atonement for our continued foolishness, this is how we learn humility. It would be foolish to think I will find my own way when we don’t even know where we are.
Glenn is right, come as a child unto the Father, depend on he who made all things even in death, seek Him with all your heart, mind, and soul..in Jesus name


6 posted on 08/30/2010 7:40:06 AM PDT by aeonspromise
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To: OldMissileer

Amen


7 posted on 08/30/2010 7:40:18 AM PDT by AggieMom x 3
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To: Big Bureaucracy

We can be friends if you are unbeliever, certainly. You are also fortunate to live in a nation that allows you to be an athiest, unlike say Saudi Arabia or Iran. As I’m fortunate to live in a nation that allows me for the moment to worship as I wish.

I think Beck’s point is that we should return to the original founders view that America is an exceptional nation in the sense that it was able to accomplish what no other group of people in human history had been able to accomplish, self government. But with self government comes the notion of the law being above man so that self government is possible and that the laws originate with God.

This is the same view as Lincoln and DeTocqueville among others.

Turn to God and He will turn to you.


8 posted on 08/30/2010 7:40:35 AM PDT by Patrick1
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To: Big Bureaucracy
So how do stubborn non-believing folks like me can help America? I would go with ‘decency, honesty, charity’ I appreciate your honesty. I think what Glenn Beck and others are saying is that in spite of the variants of religious beliefs or non beliefs in this country, it is still the place where a belief in a Creator, (and at the time of inception, the United States was a predominantly Christian land) was foundational in the mindset of the people. If, as Americans, we are hungering for a return of these foundational precepts, then we must, as a people, ask for God's forgiveness and for His blessings. That you are an atheist, (actually you seem more agnostic than anything else) with conservative priniciples is beside the point. Yes, you can emulate the religious precepts you list, but you cannot eliminate the majority of American's need to restore this country to an almighty God.
9 posted on 08/30/2010 7:40:52 AM PDT by sueuprising
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To: Big Bureaucracy
I think this is the answer: just be good. Do not lie, do not cheat, do not envy, do not steal, do not kill, respect your parents, do not idolize people, repent your sins and try to be good.

A bit confused here -- if they author does not believe in God then why adhere to the idea that there is anything like sin to repent?

If Ellie does not accept Glenn's theory, why does that even matter? He proclaims what he feels is the solution to America's troubles, this doesn't mean everyone must accept it. Unless of course, the problem is that Ellie isn't quite so certain of her position.

10 posted on 08/30/2010 7:40:59 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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To: aeonspromise

“Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy. But being a Christian? That’s a tough call. That’s real rebellion.” - Alice Cooper


11 posted on 08/30/2010 7:41:11 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Big Bureaucracy

There are certain principles of Christianity.......support the one’s you believe ignore the rest.....It won’t get you to the after life but you will be a better person than if you ignore them all!!!


12 posted on 08/30/2010 7:41:57 AM PDT by ontap
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To: Big Bureaucracy
I think this is the answer: just be good. Do not lie, do not cheat, do not envy, do not steal, do not kill, respect your parents, do not idolize people, repent your sins and try to be good.

A lot of people think this is the answer. It's not.

13 posted on 08/30/2010 7:42:51 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Big Bureaucracy
"I just believe we don’t have enough knowledge to know the world yet."

The author does have enough knowledge to know the world. That's not the question. The reality for agnostics isn't that they "can't know" - they simply don't care to know & can't be bothered to find out.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. - I John 5:13

14 posted on 08/30/2010 7:43:37 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Big Bureaucracy

It takes EXACTLY the same amount of faith to disbelieve in God as it does to believe. If the non-believers are right then nothing mattered anyway so the believer loses nothing. On the other hand if the believer is right then the non-believer loses everything. So logically and mathematically it is better to put your faith in God. This is what I tell all the so-called “scientific” atheists.


15 posted on 08/30/2010 7:44:19 AM PDT by Lazarus Starr
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To: MozarkDawg

I agree, My opinion doesn’t matter. Beck ask us to tell the truth - so this is what I am trying to do.
Sins - things that I have done that are wrong.


16 posted on 08/30/2010 7:45:44 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: sheikdetailfeather

My fav Scripture. Thanks


17 posted on 08/30/2010 7:45:48 AM PDT by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
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To: sheikdetailfeather

There is only 1 thing the Human mind is not capable of imagining, that one thing is absolute nothingness, if you envision a black void, that is something, that is because God has always been and His existence as our lives will never be nothing, nor will we, but it is so important to believe. In science we believe if we hook a battery up to our flashlights and flip the switch there is light, if we did not believe it and our light went out would we even replace the battery?
Our nature goes far beyond what we understand, in fact I am convinced we are no more than babies barely able at the end of our lives to look at the Heavens and say Daddy? Have faith


18 posted on 08/30/2010 7:46:18 AM PDT by aeonspromise
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To: Big Bureaucracy
Sure we can be friends. Fortunately, God does not require our belief in Him to exist, so you not believing is not a threat to me or God in any way.

I think everyone takes a journey to faith in their own manner in their own time.

BTW, can we be friends if I aggravate you by believing you will eventually find your way to God?

19 posted on 08/30/2010 7:46:40 AM PDT by McGavin999 (I'm sorry, your race card is overdrawn and no further charges can be accepted)
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To: onedoug
"Thy Word is Truth." -John 17:17b
20 posted on 08/30/2010 7:47:02 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: MozarkDawg

Why would even murder be upsetting to someone who doesn’t believe in an Objective Morality?

Would they get upset that vinegar reacts with baking soda?


21 posted on 08/30/2010 7:47:43 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: massgopguy

It takes perseverance, none are perfect in it..but Christ..


22 posted on 08/30/2010 7:48:19 AM PDT by aeonspromise
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To: MrB

Rom 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Rom 9:19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?”

Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ “ [fn]

Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?


23 posted on 08/30/2010 7:50:24 AM PDT by BornToBeAmerican (Give me a hand up, not a hand out)
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To: Patrick1

I love America and I am proud to be an American. I don’t mind our laws to come from God (although I don’t believe in God). It is much better than the laws and rights coming from a politburo.


24 posted on 08/30/2010 7:51:37 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy

Thanks for posting this. I am very troubled by the “just put your faith in God” sentiment. It reminds me of the man and the flood story. It is an easy cop out to put your faith in God and then when John McCain wins and election the answer is “it is God’s will”. Balderdash. If many spent the time and energy organizing and working to get this country back on track that they do “praying” we would not be in the mess we are in. Leaving it to God is a cop out plain and simple.

Flame on.


25 posted on 08/30/2010 7:52:42 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: MrB

I believe in the moral principles. I don’t have to believe in God to believe that to lie is wrong, to steal is wrong, to kill is wrong, to cheat is wrong - most people in the world agree on those despite different religious beliefs.


26 posted on 08/30/2010 7:55:40 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy

Why are all those things wrong?

If we are just the product of random, naturally directed chemical processes, there is absolutely no reason to treat your fellow humans with any sort of “fairness”, up to and including taking their life.

Like I said, you might just as well be angry at vinegar reacting with baking soda.


27 posted on 08/30/2010 7:59:35 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: MrB

It is somehow self-evident that those things are wrong.

I am not angry at all. I am just sharing my personal difficulty with Beck’s plan.


28 posted on 08/30/2010 8:02:44 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: mad_as_he$$; All
Won't get a flame from me. You are absolutely correct. It does nothing except to provide an excuse for events which are in man's control. Floods, earthquakes, volcanoes, God's department.

Perhaps if people decided to live for this life rather than gamble on the possibility of a next life, we would all be better off. You want to live your life for Heaven, go cloister yourself.

29 posted on 08/30/2010 8:03:55 AM PDT by j.argese (Liberal thought process = oxymoron)
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To: MrB
A lot of people think this is the answer. It's not.

It may not be the answer for anything beyond this life on earth, but I would take many more people who followed "do not lie, do not cheat, do not envy, do not steal, do not kill, respect your parents, do not idolize people, repent your sins and try to be good" than don't.
30 posted on 08/30/2010 8:04:56 AM PDT by Eagle of Liberty ("Stop Spending. Stop Spending. Stop Spending. STOP SPENDING!!!")
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To: Big Bureaucracy

Self-evident? Why?
Is there some Objective Standard perchance?
Perhaps this “self-evidency” is “written on our hearts”?


31 posted on 08/30/2010 8:06:41 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: McGavin999

We can definitely be friends. I had many discussion with people of faith and absolutely respect their ability to believe in God. I tried but failed.

Usually when I say that Jesus was a historical person people run away. President Obama somehow got away with the same statement.


32 posted on 08/30/2010 8:08:05 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy
Sounds a lot like following the Ten Commandments. Not a bad place to start.

We can each answer for how we keep them personally, but I think our leaders have a lot to publicly answer for with regard to 8, 9, and 10 -- especially 10.

It appears to me that every day our politicians and leaders are working to lead us to hate our fellow Americans for some perception of what they have that we do not. This exploitation is abominable. Our leaders should be leading us to be better people instead of trying to incite us to be our worst selves.

Over and over, when I hear our politicians talk about white oppression or the top 5% not paying their share, or speak about a black man in the White House isn't enough, that there won't be peace until everyone has equal possessions, I think about this commandment.

I know I'm not expressing this correctly, but that's the commandment I hear reverberating in my head and heart every time I hear these guys speak.

33 posted on 08/30/2010 8:08:12 AM PDT by JustSurrounded (Yes, they are doing in on purpose.)
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To: Big Bureaucracy

My reference to “angry” was in regard to people feeling a sense of “wrongness” about lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, etc. If you’re upset about those things, you might as well be upset about an acid/base reaction, or one animal eating another.


34 posted on 08/30/2010 8:08:57 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: MrB

There is no objective standard - I just believe it.
Perhaps this “self-evidency” is “written on our hearts”? Perhaps. Is it?


35 posted on 08/30/2010 8:11:29 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy
I'm a big believer in "by their fruits ye shall know them" so someone who conducts their life in the proper manner. Faith doesn't always come crashing down on someone. Sometimes faith creeps quietly into someones heart without them even noticing it.

For me, faith is easy because I equate the beauty of this world as God's work. I think if things were left to nature all flowers would be yellow since that is the color that most attracts bees. But they are not.

Anyway, this is not the place to get into a long discussion about his. I just wanted you to know that many of us will not run because you say you do not believe.

36 posted on 08/30/2010 8:14:52 AM PDT by McGavin999 (I'm sorry, your race card is overdrawn and no further charges can be accepted)
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To: MrB

It is not an answer for religious believers, but it is a perfectly good answer for a functioning civil society.


37 posted on 08/30/2010 8:15:11 AM PDT by cammie
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To: MrB

Glad we cleared that, because I am not angry.

The hardest thing is to make people agree on what is wrong and what is right. Different religions have different standards. Everybody tuning to God may lead to many disagreements.

What are the things that believers and non-believers agree on?


38 posted on 08/30/2010 8:16:52 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy

The notion of wrong implies that there is a natural order of ways things should be.

If there is not a Supreme consciousness who ordains that natural order the concept of “right” and “wrong” have no meaning other than “that which I like” and “that which I dislike”, which is fine, but although one’s personal likes and dislikes may be self-evident to one self, no one else is either obligated to agree or conform his behavior to them.

Right and Wrong are only universally “self-evident” because God’s existence is self-evident.


39 posted on 08/30/2010 8:16:52 AM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: mad_as_he$$

No flaming here. Totally agreed.


40 posted on 08/30/2010 8:17:24 AM PDT by cammie
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To: Big Bureaucracy
There is no objective standard - I just believe it.

So if someone else has a different standard that they "believe" strongly in, it's just as valid as yours, like, sacrificing babies to a Mayan moongod, for instance.

41 posted on 08/30/2010 8:18:28 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: JustSurrounded

I agree the commandments are a good starting place. Do not envy and do not wish your neighbor’s stuff - that gets rid of Marxism immediately.

Telling the truth, not stealing, not cheating - takes care of corruption. etc.

But some folks may not agree with all 10. Some don’t believe in God. Some have no problems with abortion. Some have idols (historical figures, philosophers, Hollywood stars...)

So how do we work together to bring rightness in our country?


42 posted on 08/30/2010 8:27:05 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: MrB

They are free to believe it. Our laws prevent them to practice sacrificing babies to a Mayan moongod. We agreed on laws.


43 posted on 08/30/2010 8:29:41 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy
They are free to believe it.

I won't pursue you on this any more, but I just want you to think about this:
But is it "wrong"? And if so, why? What is the definition of "wrong"?

44 posted on 08/30/2010 8:32:29 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Truthsearcher

“Right and Wrong are only universally “self-evident” because God’s existence is self-evident.”

Or may be because we debated it and agreed on few basic things?


45 posted on 08/30/2010 8:34:24 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: McGavin999

“I’m a big believer in “by their fruits ye shall know them”” - this may be a good starting point for agreement.


46 posted on 08/30/2010 8:38:13 AM PDT by Big Bureaucracy
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To: Big Bureaucracy
Or may be because we debated it and agreed on few basic things?

Maybe, but your answer means that other things can be debated on, agreed and hence declared Right or Wrong. Man has been created with certain inalienable rights. For instance, my right to LIFE should not be a debatable topic.
47 posted on 08/30/2010 8:41:15 AM PDT by Eagle of Liberty ("Stop Spending. Stop Spending. Stop Spending. STOP SPENDING!!!")
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To: Big Bureaucracy

What did we agree on? On a objective universal standard or do we just happen by coincidence to share similar personal preferences?

If we both happen to agree to that chicken tastes better than pork, would that make those who prefer pork wrong?


48 posted on 08/30/2010 8:42:08 AM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: Big Bureaucracy
They are free to believe it. Our laws prevent them to practice sacrificing babies to a Mayan moongod. We agreed on laws.

Legality and Morality are two different things. Who determines Morality? Politicians?
49 posted on 08/30/2010 8:43:19 AM PDT by Eagle of Liberty ("Stop Spending. Stop Spending. Stop Spending. STOP SPENDING!!!")
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To: Big Bureaucracy

We all have it, it was placed there by our Creator. The fact that you hear that voice telling you what is right and what is wrong speaks volumes. You are almost quoting St. Paul verbatim. Look up Romans 2:14, 2:15.


50 posted on 08/30/2010 8:44:28 AM PDT by coon2000 (Give me Liberty or give me death!)
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