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The Ishmael Connection to James Lee's view on immigration
TheBigIf | 9/2/10 | TheBigIf

Posted on 09/02/2010 4:20:42 PM PDT by TheBigIf

Sorry about the vanity but I already in the past few hours have heard multiple references stop not being sure what James Lee motives were or questions about whether he was right-wing or left-wing because he mentioned being against anchor babies. Alan Colmes on my drive home was ranting at Steve Mulzberg that he was against ‘anchor babies’ and that was a right-wing cause.

Well I happen to have the book ‘ISHMAEL’ on my bookshelf. I read it sometime about ten years ago and James Lee motives for being against immigration all come from this book as well.

It has been ten years so I may be a little off but this is what the book teaches:

The psychic gorilla in the book named Ishmael teaches James Lee about types of men called ‘Takers’ and ‘Leavers’. The ‘takers’ take from life and the ‘leavers’ leave life as it is and get along with it in harmony with it. The immigrants in the book were always ‘takers’. They migrate to rape more land and breed themselves into larger numbers. They do not live in harmony with the land but hunt and go out to gather from more and more swatches of land instead of living in harmony and giving back to the land to replenish it and grow at the rate of the land.

James Lee had no care for ‘border security’ or even was his goal a woman’s right to choose. His motivation was hatred for the people of mankind who he thought were the ‘Takers’.

Again I am sorry about the vanity. This is all off the top of my head as well being that I read the book at least ten years ago but I felt I had to vent about it being I was seeing articles even here on FR whereas people are acting like there is a question as to whether he was right-wing or left-wing.

James Lee was a disciple of Al Gore and Daniel Quinn. He was 100% left-wing.

TOPICS: Politics; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: discovery; greenie; ishmael; lee
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This is another example in a long long list of examples of the democrats and left-wing breeding terrorists with their ideologies.

The left-wing and the democrats fight constantly for terrorist rights. They continually give moral support and sometimes even physical support to our enemies as well.

They have a long history of terrorism from when the KKK was a terrorist wing of their party to the days of Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground and onto the enviro-terrorists and animal rights terrorists of ALF and ELF.

The democrats should just call themselves the terrorist party and come clean.

1 posted on 09/02/2010 4:20:43 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf

James Lee always wore a baseball cap making him look like John Doe #2, (,r:8,s:0 ) the hypothetical side kick to Tim McVeigh........................................... So, how did McVeigh’s beliefs dovetail with this guy’s. It’s possible the OK City thing ain’t over.

2 posted on 09/02/2010 4:31:36 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

No where do I mention any connection between the two but you obviously are on something.

The fact still is that James Lee objected to immigration because he saw it as a ‘Taker’ way of life as outlined in the book by Daniel Quinn.

3 posted on 09/02/2010 4:35:15 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf
I just did one of those big combo searches for "Daniel Quinn Ishmael The turner diaries tim mcveigh" and my goodness ~ there are folks who've already trod that road of NOTING the similarities between the focus of the Turner Diaries and My Ishmael.

Commenters on McVeigh drag in Daniel Quinn, and commenters on Quinn point to William Luther Pierce.

Intriguingly some of the commenters over on the Washington Post stories about Mr. Lee's big Wednesday worked "Pierce" into their login names ~ Hmmm!!

You just know the FBI isn't on top of this!

4 posted on 09/02/2010 4:41:36 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: TheBigIf

I wonder if the guy is a homo. Hillcrest in San Diego is a big homo area. He is disgusted by “birthing” and procreation.

5 posted on 09/02/2010 4:44:39 PM PDT by ecomcon
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To: TheBigIf
On something? Or "on to something"?

Big difference there.

This guy is 42. The Clinton thing (OK City bombing) was 1995. James was 27 at the time. McVeigh would have been 42 if we hadn't sent him on that last guerney ride.

No, let's get back to those Philippinos associated with Nichols, and through him to McVeigh and his crowd, where was James at the time? He has a really common Chinese name ~ kind of like the folks on CEBU who ALL have Chinese names.

6 posted on 09/02/2010 4:46:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Sorry but you are way over my head with how deep you are on this.

My point is really much more simple.

The reason that James Lee ranted about immigration and ‘anchor babies’ had nothing to do with border security of any other cause of the right-wing. It was purely based upon the left-wing ideology spelled out in the book ‘Ishmael’ by Daniel Quinn and was apart of his overall left-wing greenie mindset.

As I said in the OP, there seems to be many acting as if his motives are confusing because of this reference to immigration and anchor babies but in reality it is not if you have read the book ‘Ishmael’ and James Lee had not only read but lived with it as a major part of his philosophy.

If you feel that therre is a connection between James Lee, Quinn, Gore, and Timothy McViegh then please spell it out in clear language and to the point then.

7 posted on 09/02/2010 4:50:12 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: ecomcon

It wouldn’t suprise me. His ideology led him to a very sick and disgusting hatred for procreation and mankind.

8 posted on 09/02/2010 4:51:30 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: muawiyah

Again my point is very simple and has nothing to do with any conspiracy at all. If you are being funny and want to accuse me of being conspiratorial then please just come right and say it.

If not then explain please why you keep on bringing up Timothy McVeigh and the OK city bomber. Are you trying to make an accusation against the right-wing to deflect from my accusation against the left-wing at the end of the OP?

I would love to hear a direct answer to that. Seems as if you are.

9 posted on 09/02/2010 4:54:28 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf
No, you did enough. I always check that John Doe #2 picture against the latest crazoid ~ .

Your explanation of "the taker" is pretty similar to the Turner Diary's approach to politicians ~ that they are simply blood suckers.

If you were to go back through the years of discussion of McVeigh's real motives and whether or not he was actually connected with any of the neo-nazi operations in the Great Plains you'd find that there was a LOT of confusion about McVeigh's motives since those connections to existing groups weren't exactly clear nor have they been made clear with time.

We have the same thing with this guy.

One conclusion is that the folks like this latch onto their own favorite authors who speak to some personal belief of theirs and then come up with a monumental attack on a symbol of authority with an attached day care center. I think there are psychiatrists into talk therapy who could 'splain that deal !

But here we have two guys, same age, same sort of background, doing a sort of bizarre neo-Buddhist koan with books that differentiate the world between givers and takers ~ (begging bowl types versus farmers) ~ and they even showed up with broken guns, or starter pistols, and bombs ~ only McVeigh really did know how to make a bomb!

The Montgomery police released a video of them blowing off Lee's bombs today, and they went to his house and found even more of them. The neighbors were advised they might want to leave home "just in case it blew up".

I think these similarities are BEYOND chance, and they begin to explain why McVeigh couldn't be tied down to the militia movement that well, nor will we find that this guy ever sat at the feet of the Algore ~ but I'm sure that's not for lack of trying.

The practical consideration is are their common associations we might wish to look at so we can find the rest of this nest of nutcases.

10 posted on 09/02/2010 5:04:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

You are missing the point. In the case of McVeigh we did not have a posted statement as we do here. And a host of other writings and posts. This guy belonged to the ‘Friends of Ishmael’ group on the net.

I am not claiming that this guy had accomplishes either.

His ideology is clearly stated in his manifesto or whatever you call his internet demands.

He was following an ideology clearly left-wing and clearly based upon the greenie movement of Al Gore and the work of Daniel Quinn.

You are comparing apples and oranges in regards to bringing McVeigh into this. It could easily be shown that James Lee was 100% as I claim in regards to his ideology and how it relates to Quinn and Gore.

11 posted on 09/02/2010 5:13:12 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf

Actually it seems that Wikipedia even has this as being the case:


New Tribalist Movement
New tribalists believe in a New Tribal Revolution outlined in the Ishmael series by Daniel Quinn. New tribalists believe that the tribe fulfills an important role in human life, and that the dissolution of tribalism with the spread of civilization has come to threaten the very survival of the species. New tribalists seek to mimic indigenous peoples by organizing their own “tribes” based on underlying principles gleaned from ethnology and anthropological fieldwork.

Quinn argues that this civilization is not working, and if we are to find a way of life that does work, we should draw our basic principles from human societies that are working. Quinn points to indigenous peoples and tribal societies as such examples, and advocates a social revolution—the New Tribal Revolution—to reform society using principles gleaned from the operation of such cultures.

[edit] Activity
An important expression of this movement is the trend towards modern eco-villages. Ecoregional Democracy and peace movement advocates are also often new tribalists as well, as the groups share common ideals. On September 1, 2010, James Jay Lee took hostages at Discovery Channel’s Headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland before being fatally shot by police. Lee has stated that his activism was inspired by reading Ishmael.[5] Daniel Quinn, however, contends that Lee advocated ideas that he has never supported.[6]


You see James Lee hated immigration ONLY because it was not a tribal way of living life as a Leaver. Immigrants migrate in order to TAKE and to reproduce beyond the means of their own land.

As the crap website Wikipedia even notes now it is known that his acts were based around Quinn’s book and the Gore greenie movement.

James Lee is just another in a long long line of left-wing terrorists.

12 posted on 09/02/2010 5:28:05 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf
Of course Lee was a Leftwingtard, as is Algore (and he has a taste for associating with other mad bombers), as is Obama (who has a different bunch of bombers he likes).

The whole crowd of leftists in this country are also soft on mad bombers.

I'm much more interested in this guy's stint as a Coyote ~ do you know from any other information source you might have if he was bringing in Philippinos?

BTW, it's always been my impression that Tim McVeigh was pretty much a Leftwingtard ~ he was turned down for membership by both Elohim City and the Michigan Militia, and they know what Leftwingtard nut cases are ~ but they probably thought he was working for the FBI.

There's another whole bunch with this same "tribalism" point of view who live in a bunch of old rusty trailers out in the desert in Arizona near the border with Mexico. Their deal is to wear safron robes, carry around various trinkets as koan, shave their heads, bath annually whether they need it or not, AND deal peyote and a variety of other North American psychoactive drug products.

I encountered them looking for more Church of the First Born groups, and they popped up.

With them it's the dope connection of course.

13 posted on 09/02/2010 5:41:03 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: TheBigIf

Thank you for posting your remembrances and this Wiki reference.

Reading about this Quinn guy arguing that civilization isn’t working makes me wonder: If tribalism is so great, why did we move away from it and create civilization?

14 posted on 09/02/2010 5:49:31 PM PDT by Duke Nukum (I know writers who use subtext and they're all cowards.)
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To: muawiyah

No sorry I wish I could offer you more information on what it is that you are interested in but I really was just venting on the aspect of people acting like they are not sure as to the ideology that drove James Lee.

I happened to have read the book by Quinn and new that his immigration views were inspired from that source. Many seem to be trying to confuse the issue based upon his rant on immigration and in reality they fit in 100% with Quinn’s work.

I also do not believe that McVeigh was right-wing and also know the type that you are talking about. People also seem many times to miss the fact that even many who claim to be libertarian are not really even right-wing at all but are total left-wing nutcases.

Sorry that I couldn’t help you out though. I was really just making a simple point based upon having read Quinn’s book years ago. Hearing Alan Colmes rant that Lee was right-wing because of being against ‘anchor babies’ and then seeing some posts from articles that seemed to imply that there was confusion about this set this vanity of mine off. There is no confusion at all. Lee was driven by a pure left-wing ideology.

15 posted on 09/02/2010 5:56:35 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: Duke Nukum


Believe it or not but from my memory the pyschic gorilla (Ishmael) uses the Bible to convinve James Lee that it was the ‘orginal sin’ or something to that effect that causes mankind to move from being ‘Leavers’ to becoming ‘Takers’.

It all started in the Garden of Eden or something and mankind defied their nature of living at peace with the land and decided to ‘take’ of the forbidden fruit. Thus they became the Takers and no longer lived in the Garden (they migrated) but sought to rule the land and ‘take’ of it.

I am seriosuly paraphrasing though and trying to remember the book with ten years gone. But I am pretty sure the novel went something like that.

16 posted on 09/02/2010 6:03:02 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf
My impression is that Alan Colmes is hiding something in this situation ~ he knows something he's not talking about.

He needs to be interrogated. I'd volunteer but he'd sue ~ if he survived. So, somebody like maybe the police would like to know where he got some of his information on the man.

17 posted on 09/02/2010 6:42:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: TheBigIf

Honestly I can see how someone might take the book Ishmael as sort of a religious ideology even.

On the cover even of the copy I own there is a review which reads:

“From now on I will divide the books I have read into two catagories — the ones I read before Ishmael and those I read after” .... Jim Brittel, Whole Earth Review”

Such a serious praise for a review.

It tells a story as if it is exaplining everything and all of history. So for the idiot left-wing mind it may become as if the bible for who we are and how we got to where we are today.

It is obvious that James Lee took this ideological rhetoric very seriously.

18 posted on 09/02/2010 6:51:10 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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To: TheBigIf

I find the choice of name ‘Ishmael’ rather curious from the author.

“Muslims are taught that Abraham attempted to sacrifice Ishmael on an altar, not Isaac.”

19 posted on 09/02/2010 6:51:22 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (I don't have a 'Cousin Pookie'.)
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To: muawiyah

Alan Colmes is a left-wing liar and scum. The guy does not have a sincere bone in his body and is a pure political hack.

He I am sure knows damn well the ideology of James Lee but still works to spin it otherwise.

20 posted on 09/02/2010 6:52:38 PM PDT by TheBigIf
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