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SETI switching search to galactic Artificial Intelligence arrays could bring about end of humanity
Texarrakis ^ | 9/20/10

Posted on 09/21/2010 6:09:15 AM PDT by LibWhacker

Seth Shostak, a top astronomer at SETI has recently suggested that instead of trying to listen for standard transmissions from advanced alien biological lifeforms like ourselves, we should probably be listening for AI transmissions. This is based on our own experience, we as humans developed radio transmissions only a short while ago, considering the length of time our civilization has been advancing. And if we're any indication of the general route technologically capable life evolves, the galaxy is probably full of sentient AI collectives, not biological lifeforms.

In an interview with the BBC, Dr Shostak said:

"If you look at the timescales for the development of technology, at some point you invent radio and then you go on the air and then we have a chance of finding you," he told BBC News.

"But within a few hundred years of inventing radio - at least if we're any example - you invent thinking machines; we're probably going to do that in this century.

"So you've invented your successors and only for a few hundred years are you... a 'biological' intelligence."

Oh, uh. Goody? Working on that assumption, SETI is now looking beyond just searching for systems that may have a planet with goopy organic mold and intelligence sending out naive radio transmissions. The chance of catching a civilization before it turns into some vast self replicating artificial intelligence robotic borg collective is too high, apparently. Instead, we should train our attention to areas of the galaxy where vast AI colonies would thrive, areas with a vastly plentiful supply of matter and energy, like young stars or even the center of the galaxy.

Of course, this raises a few issues. When searching for biological beings, we imagined finding peace faring advanced species that just wanted to make contact with us. But Russian physicist Alexey Turchin is to warn at the 2010 Humanity+ Summit, that it is more likely such an entity would not be benign, and contact with an AI colony may lead to a human extinction event. "They" may send us a downloadable trojan horse, an intelligent computer virus, which could infect our entire planet's computerized infrastructure. Perhaps a Contact-like blueprint for a computer would be delivered, and the code for it, which will propagate itself, start producing nano-bots, and turn our solar system into a giant array for the vast collective.

Exactly the type that SETI is about to start looking for. Turchin warns that there could be opposing AIs out there competing for control of the galaxy, and says perhaps we should wait until our AI might be able to compete against other galactic AIs to continue our search.

You can read Turchin's book on the subject here.


TOPICS: Astronomy; Computers/Internet; Science; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: ai; artificial; borg; humanity; intelligence; nanites; seti; skynet; space; turchin
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1 posted on 09/21/2010 6:09:21 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

The S in SETI stands for Scam.


2 posted on 09/21/2010 6:11:26 AM PDT by DManA
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To: LibWhacker

I believe that, if prepared correctly ... we taste like Chicken.


3 posted on 09/21/2010 6:15:43 AM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: LibWhacker

If evolution is true AND not directed in any way but completely follows chance mutations, there is no reason to believe that, even though there may be life on other planets, that life has evolved in the same direction as life on earth. There seems to be an assumption out there that evolution of life will always lead to human-like life or an advanced form of it. If that is true then “chance” evolution is NOT true, rather it must be directed by some outside intelligent force.


4 posted on 09/21/2010 6:17:37 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (In the White House the mighty White House the Liar sleeps tonight.............)
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To: Hodar

5 posted on 09/21/2010 6:21:41 AM PDT by traderrob6
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To: LibWhacker

“”They” may send us a downloadable trojan horse, an intelligent computer virus, which could infect our entire planet’s computerized infrastructure.”

They already did that. It’s called “Windows.”


6 posted on 09/21/2010 6:24:07 AM PDT by eCSMaster
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To: LibWhacker
. . .the galaxy is probably full of sentient AI collectives, not biological lifeforms.

What is it with these nutty people who claim to be so smart? First Hawking claims that gravity can create matter out of nothing, now this guy believes that robots/computers form by themselves? Good grief.

7 posted on 09/21/2010 6:34:29 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: DManA

Scam Extraterrestrial Intelligence? Hey, I’m all for it. Let’s take ‘em for every Quatloo!


8 posted on 09/21/2010 6:35:32 AM PDT by LibWhacker (America awake!)
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To: MEGoody

No, no, he’s saying intelligent civilizations inevitably build them. Then the intelligent robots get out of control and take over.


9 posted on 09/21/2010 6:38:40 AM PDT by LibWhacker (America awake!)
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To: LibWhacker

Klatu, Barada, Nikto


10 posted on 09/21/2010 6:39:41 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: LibWhacker

Yea, I’d be careful about that. Could be stolen Space Cash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinewood_Derby_%28South_Park%29


11 posted on 09/21/2010 6:45:10 AM PDT by DManA
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To: HerrBlucher

Interesting post. I would add that if CREATION is true, the same conclusion follows.

Accordingly, if either creation or evolution is true, then, most likely, this is it.

(which I think, personally, is very much the case....).


12 posted on 09/21/2010 6:47:28 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: LibWhacker
"They" may send us a downloadable trojan horse,...

This is laughable. The idea that the hyper-intelligent AI posited would be able to figure out our operating systems and computer architecture from our transmissions is the stuff of SciFi (Jeff Goldblum in 'Independence Day').

13 posted on 09/21/2010 6:48:13 AM PDT by whd23 (Every time a link is de-blogged an angel gets its wings.)
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To: LibWhacker
No, no, he’s saying intelligent civilizations inevitably build them. Then the intelligent robots get out of control and take over.

So, then Planet X has already lost to the Terminators? Damn that Skynet. Here we are playing 2-D chess and it's already won on the 3-D board. ;-)

14 posted on 09/21/2010 6:49:38 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Liberalism can be summed up thusly: someone craps their pants and we all have to wear diapers)
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To: DManA

I can’t believe no one’s yet bounced a signal off an asteroid for SETI to pick up. Something along the lines of “surrender or else” would do wonders for funding the military and gutting socialist spending.


15 posted on 09/21/2010 6:54:47 AM PDT by Reeses (First they came for the communists... but the Secret Service stopped them at the White House gate.)
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To: ConservativeDude

No, if Creation is true the Creator is free to create life on any number of planets in any form of life He chooses, including life more advanced than humans, life that may have built AI collectives. I would say that if human-like life exists on other planets that is additional proof of a Creator. With Evolution though, one would predict that the life on other planets would be extremely variable with the likelyood of the existence of human-like life quite remote.


16 posted on 09/21/2010 7:01:45 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (In the White House the mighty White House the Liar sleeps tonight.............)
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To: LibWhacker

He’s watched Terminator and Battlestar Galactica a few too many times. :)


17 posted on 09/21/2010 7:03:56 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: HerrBlucher

Perhaps I should have said, Biblical Creation. If Biblical Creation is true, then I think you have “this is it” and for profoundly theological reasons, all set forth in Scripture.

But you are quite right. The ONLY way you get to human life on other planets is through some sort of new, non-Biblical religious system. You have to have a religious, creation-based philosophy but without earth/human distinctiveness and you have to build up an entire theology and cosmology to support that. When that is done, you are way outside of all of not only the Biblical tradition, but outside all of the monotheistic traditions here on earth.

Which puts Carl Sagan exactly in his place. He may not like it, but what he is, fundamentally, is a soft-headed religious philosopher. Nothing more.


18 posted on 09/21/2010 7:22:04 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: HerrBlucher

Sorry, but God is not free to create life on any/every planet in whatever form He decides.

“Then God said, “Let us make man[a] in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.””

God made man in HIS image - the image of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That does not mean as a T1000 series, or HAL 9000, or anything else.


19 posted on 09/21/2010 7:25:19 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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To: Ro_Thunder

True, God doesn’t directly create the AI collective just like He did not directly create the computers you and I are using right now, but other human-like creations He may have placed on other planets might create the AI collectives. God created man in His image, meaning he created a being with self conciousness, intelligence, and the ability to create also. This is no way precludes him putting other human-like (in the image of God) life on other planets that might then build AI collectives.


20 posted on 09/21/2010 7:46:55 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (In the White House the mighty White House the Liar sleeps tonight.............)
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To: Ro_Thunder
Thank Ro-Thunder put God in his place. Without the boundaries you set for Him God could end up acting...like God!.
21 posted on 09/21/2010 8:09:38 AM PDT by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: starlifter

Well, God said he put man on this earth - not earths. I’m just reading the bible (again), and from what it looks like, Jesus only came to this earth. God is not going to make a planet full of beings that have no chance to hear about Jesus, and then be condemned to hell.

We are the only planet with life.

And I’m not limiting God - I don’t even pretend to understand God. I’m just reading His words, and putting them into the context I can understand.


22 posted on 09/21/2010 8:29:07 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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To: Ro_Thunder
The Bible says God put man on this earth. No where does the Bible say anything God said he put man exclusively on this planet to the exclusion of all others.
23 posted on 09/21/2010 8:34:54 AM PDT by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: starlifter

And man was given dominion of all things on the earth, in the earth, and above the earth.

Again, perhaps it’s an interpretation issue, but I see nothing in the bible that allows for beings on any other planetary body other than the earth.


24 posted on 09/21/2010 9:21:08 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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To: Ro_Thunder

Sorry, but God is not free to create life on any/every planet in whatever form He decides.

Sorry, but God is free to do anything he decides to do.


25 posted on 09/21/2010 9:23:15 AM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: LibWhacker; Quix
""But within a few hundred years of inventing radio - at least if we're any example - you invent thinking machines; we're probably going to do that in this century."Shostak

Seth doesn't understand the nature of consciousness. ONLY a living organism will ever be conscious, by design. Life flows from a non-four-dimensional physical dimensionality to the physical universe we currently conceive of as 'four dimensional' reality, though whatever that dimensional realm is fashioned as, it still exists in space and time, by desgin--with a different expression of dimension Time hallamrking that realm, probably. The manufactured machines of calculation will always be limited to the four dimensional reality of their components.

For a better understanding of consciousness than Seth has acquired, I can reccommend Part One of even parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmSyV9pscyI

If humankind ever learn how to add that 'other' dimensionality to their calculating machines, those machines will no longer be machines, they will be living organisms of some sort.

26 posted on 09/21/2010 9:37:17 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Ro_Thunder
May I ask you if you believe Angels are living creatures? ... They're not like us, but are they living creatures?

If asked that question, I would answer YES, but they don't have the same physical limitations we four variable spacetime humans have. They are physical though, as shown with things like the hand reaching from their realm into ours as seen in Daniel Chapter five.

27 posted on 09/21/2010 9:40:21 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

THX THX.


28 posted on 09/21/2010 9:45:54 AM PDT by Quix (PAPAL AGENT DESIGNEE: Resident Filth of non-Roman Catholics; RC AGENT DESIGNATED: "INSANE")
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To: BnBlFlag

Yes - God can do anything He wants, except lie. He cannot lie.

When God said he made man in Our image (the image of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), He gave man dominion over the earth.

If there is man on another planet somewhere in the vast expanse of space - how can it have dominion over earth, when it doesn’t even know earth exists?


29 posted on 09/21/2010 10:56:50 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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To: MHGinTN

Yes, God created the Angels. I do not know ‘what’ they are, however.

My thoughts are they are the “spirit” that resides in every human being (man).

They can become physical, because God wills it - absolutely, as evidenced by Daniel 5, as you put - or in Revelation.

I also believe that is why satan was cast out - he was jealous that God created us (man) and did not give the angels dominion over us.


30 posted on 09/21/2010 11:02:00 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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To: whd23

According to Cracked.com, there is a deleted scene from Independence Day that shows that Goldblum’s character had previously worked on the alien ship’s computers and had already decoded the OS, so he knew how to code a virus for the system.


31 posted on 09/21/2010 11:30:52 AM PDT by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
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To: Ro_Thunder; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Errant; Normandy; SunkenCiv; Allegra; Quix; Elsie; ...
First, I would note that when Spirit of God is read in the Bible, that Spirit is different from the human spirit. Here's why I would assert that: humans were created with an aspect of their soul which is fashioned to have a special life in it, a life sourced in God's Spirit. The word 'life' is used to refer to a lot of organismal things, from viruses, to the single cells in your body, to the whole complex of billions of cells that make up your body, to the phenomenon of multi-layered consciousness. The human spirit can also have what Jesus characterized as 'death' in that spirit, yet the body and soul continue to function.

Second, I would note that without time events cannot occur, and without space objects cannot exist. Therefore, the Angels are located in space and time, but we are not able as now constructed to sense the realm of Angel habitation.

Third, I would note that God The Father Almighty is greater than His creation, thus the spacetime bubble of the universe is something God exists 'outside of' but also upholds and lives within, in the body/person of Jesus.

Allow me to introduce a new term for such discussions as these: where/when, with 'where' expressing spatial dimensionality and 'when' expressing temporal dimensionality. We exist in a where/when, Angels exist in a where/when, and we have evidence that Jesus with His resurrection moved back and forth from one where/when to another, etc. as He appeared then disappeared.

As Jesus left our where/when then returned, then left, etc. His resurrected body did not cease to exist, it just ceased to be in the same where/when of our perceptions. He carried a physical body back and forth between where/whens.

I have used the analogy of a tesseract here at FR before. If you take a square, expand it into a cube, then move that cube through time, you have a 'tesseract'. Our spacetime limits would be represented by the square. But the square is located as part of a cube and the cube as part of a more complex thing of identity, the tesseract. Using this analogy, I would call the square, our spacetime where/when ... we exist in a planar present, impacted by linear past, impacted as it were by events that happen but are unsensed by us until the data reaches our sensory mechanism and is processed to 'construct' a conceptualization of our universe.

The universe our senses cannot process does not cease to exist just because we are not made--yet--to sense it. That 'greater' universe (and it may in fact be 'lesser' in the sense of steam being less dense than liquid water) exists as evidenced by the information we've been given in the Bible like in Daniel Chptr 5 or the resurrection scene or the upper room scene or the scene on the way to Emmaeus or a host of other scenes given to us in the Old Testament.

We are assured by Jesus and the writers of the New Testament that Christians faithing in Jesus will be transformed to dwell in a different where/when! The current where/when will not immediately cease to exist, but the where/when that Jesus spoke of--where He is preparing a place for 'many mansions'--is also a creation in spacetime by The Creator Who remains greater than His creation as Creator,upheld in its near infinite complexity by His Spirit,a nd indwelt by Him in the person of Jesus Christ our Redeemer.

Human consciousness involves quantum entanglements. The quantum scale is found in our universe at the 10-small>33 scale below our current physical existence, yet our very large organism touches this quantum level of information approximately forty times per second, with who knows what in between the forty points of awareness? This is likened to a movie strip of cellulose film running at forty frames per second. That is because we receive data from past events, event we did not sense int he present they occurred.

We sense our universe via photon exchange effects. What if we sensed our universe via gravitational 'warping' of spacetime, instead? We would till be in a where/when, but our temporal alignment and spatial alignment would be very different from a photon dependent alignment.

[I'm pinging a few others because they may enjoy these 'strange' conjectures.]

32 posted on 09/21/2010 12:10:26 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Ro_Thunder; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Errant; Normandy; SunkenCiv; Allegra; Quix; Elsie; ...
Oops! I should have checked it before posting. Here's a little better rendering ...

First, I would note that when Spirit of God is read in the Bible, that Spirit is different from the human spirit. Here's why I would assert that: humans were created with an aspect of their soul which is fashioned to have a special life in it, a life sourced in God's Spirit. The word 'life' is used to refer to a lot of organismal things, from viruses, to the single cells in your body, to the whole complex of billions of cells that make up your body, to the phenomenon of multi-layered consciousness. The human spirit can also have what Jesus characterized as 'death' in that spirit, yet the body and soul continue to function.

Second, I would note that without time events cannot occur, and without space objects cannot exist. Therefore, the Angels are located in space and time, but we are not able as now constructed to sense the realm of Angel habitation.

Third, I would note that God The Father Almighty is greater than His creation, thus the spacetime bubble of the universe is something God exists 'outside of' but also upholds and lives within, in the body/person of Jesus.

Allow me to introduce a new term for such discussions as these: where/when, with 'where' expressing spatial dimensionality and 'when' expressing temporal dimensionality. We exist in a where/when, Angels exist in a where/when, and we have evidence that Jesus with His resurrection moved back and forth from one where/when to another, etc. as He appeared then disappeared.

As Jesus left our where/when then returned, then left, etc. His resurrected body did not cease to exist, it just ceased to be in the same where/when of our perceptions. He carried a physical body back and forth between where/whens.

I have used the analogy of a tesseract here at FR before. If you take a square, expand it into a cube, then move that cube through time, you have a 'tesseract'. Our spacetime limits would be represented by the square. But the square is located as part of a cube and the cube as part of a more complex thing of identity, the tesseract. Using this analogy, I would call the square, our spacetime where/when ... we exist in a planar present, impacted by linear past, impacted as it were by events that happen but are unsensed by us until the data reaches our sensory mechanism and is processed to 'construct' a conceptualization of our universe.

The universe our senses cannot process does not cease to exist just because we are not made--yet--to sense it. That 'greater' universe (and it may in fact be 'lesser' in the sense of steam being less dense than liquid water) exists as evidenced by the information we've been given in the Bible like in Daniel Chptr 5 or the resurrection scene or the upper room scene or the scene on the way to Emmaeus or a host of other scenes given to us in the Old Testament.

We are assured by Jesus and the writers of the New Testament that Christians faithing in Jesus will be transformed to dwell in a different where/when! The current where/when will not immediately cease to exist, but the where/when that Jesus spoke of--where He is preparing a place for 'many mansions'--is also a creation in spacetime by The Creator Who remains greater than His creation as Creator,upheld in its near infinite complexity by His Spirit,a nd indwelt by Him in the person of Jesus Christ our Redeemer.

Human consciousness involves quantum entanglements. The quantum scale is found in our universe at the 10-33 scale below our current physical existence, yet our very large organism touches this quantum level of information approximately forty times per second, with who knows what in between the forty points of awareness? This is likened to a movie strip of cellulose film running at forty frames per second. That is because we receive data from past events, event we did not sense int he present they occurred.

We sense our universe via photon exchange effects. What if we sensed our universe via gravitational 'warping' of spacetime, instead? We would till be in a where/when, but our temporal alignment and spatial alignment would be very different from a photon dependent alignment.

[I'm pinging a few others because they may enjoy these 'strange' conjectures.]

33 posted on 09/21/2010 12:13:09 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN; Ro_Thunder; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Errant; Normandy; SunkenCiv; Allegra; Quix; Elsie
Outstanding observations and conjectures dear MHGinTN!

Your tesseract analogy strikes me as powerful. And your dimensional contextualizing by means of "where/when" enormously useful.

JMHO FWIW.

Thank you ever so much, dear MHGinTN, for this thought-provoking essay/post!

34 posted on 09/21/2010 12:38:47 PM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: MHGinTN

An interesting conjecture about all this is one that regards the moment of conception as a unique expression of the universe (God) at that moment in time and space. The expression of the universe, through the translational vehicle of DNA,in that human life, may be regarded as a very breath of God Himself. The human is meant to be the expression of God through his time dimension.

I would conjecture humans dwell in the when/where..where being subordinate to time, while angels enjoy the where/when
dimensional relationship.


35 posted on 09/21/2010 12:43:01 PM PDT by mo
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To: LibWhacker
SETI switching search to galactic Artificial Intelligence arrays could bring about end of humanity

Read the paper!

It's already happened!

36 posted on 09/21/2010 12:49:08 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LibWhacker
SETI

It's in yer computer; searchin' for LIFE!

37 posted on 09/21/2010 12:49:51 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: DManA

Wanna get BOINKED?

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/transition.php


38 posted on 09/21/2010 12:51:16 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ro_Thunder
Sorry, but God is not free to create life on any/every planet in whatever form He decides.

God can create whatever the Hell he wants to. He's God you dimwit.

39 posted on 09/21/2010 12:54:00 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Elsie

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/


40 posted on 09/21/2010 12:55:58 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

If tax dollars are being used for this you bet I feel boinked.


41 posted on 09/21/2010 12:56:19 PM PDT by DManA
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To: LibWhacker

A quick read: only 431 pages...


42 posted on 09/21/2010 12:58:30 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lurker

Lurker wrote:
God can create whatever the Hell he wants to. He’s God you dimwit.

And I agree - but God cannot create something that makes him a liar - He does NOT lie. Ever. Not in all of space-time, outside of time, in different planes, dimensions, or realities. God does not lie. If He does, He is not God. He has said so Himself.


43 posted on 09/21/2010 1:46:55 PM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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To: mo

Thank you for sharing that notion! I’ll have to think about that transposition, when/where v where/when.


44 posted on 09/21/2010 1:56:09 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Ro_Thunder
You've offered an interesting conjecture. If we believe the parameters for life sustained is a 'goldilocks band' then God would have set limits to where life will be sustained. In that sense He has made limits which He would not abrogate because to do so would raise 'inconsistency'.

His Spirit sustains the extremely delicate balance of forces which allow our type of carbon based life to exist. As such, His Spirit then has a near infinite variety of changes or tweaks which He could make and yet sustain the whole. But if such tweaks were made in zones beyond what would effect our zone, would we even be aware of them?

While at dinner with a old friend, he offered the following interesting scenario which i had not heard before: if every cell and organ system in our body could be replaced with a silicone based/artificial replacement, slowly one at a time for instance, when the last organic cell is replaced, would we still remain human? of course there is a trap of logical fallacy in that notion, but it was an interesting conjecture.

45 posted on 09/21/2010 2:10:03 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Ro_Thunder

Are you saying God can’t change his mind if He wants to?


46 posted on 09/21/2010 4:30:39 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: sauropod

read


47 posted on 09/21/2010 4:32:10 PM PDT by sauropod (The truth shall make you free but first it will make you miserable.)
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To: Lurker

Are you implying you know the answer?


48 posted on 09/21/2010 4:58:28 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Morg, believing they cannot be deceived, it's nye impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Do you know the difference between implying and inferring?


49 posted on 09/21/2010 4:59:54 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

I’m not saying God doesn’t change, He did.

Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

God doesn’t change His mind; He’s KNOWS all possible alternatives, and has made His decision. God doesn’t change, period, end of story; game over, the quarterback is toast.

God IS. God doesn’t change.

If He said it, it is.

The Creation of the World
1In the(A) beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was(B) without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3And God said,(C) “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

6And God said,(D) “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7And God made[b] the expanse and(E) separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were(F) above the expanse. And it was so. 8And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

9And God said,(G) “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11And God said,(H) “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

14And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for(I) signs and for(J) seasons,[f] and for days and years, 15and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16And God(K) made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18to(L) rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

20And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[g] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21So(M) God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22And God blessed them, saying,(N) “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.

24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26Then God said,(O) “Let us make man[h] in our image,(P) after our likeness. And(Q) let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
(R) male and female he created them.

28And God blessed them. And God said to them,(S) “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit.(T) You shall have them for food. 30And(U) to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

I don’t know what else you read into this - but what I read is God created the earth, and the sky. God then created everything on the earth, in the earth, and in the sky. God created:

27So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
(R) male and female he created them.

Frankly - it’s pretty blanket cut and dried. There is no other civilization, in the skies, that God created.

It’s black and white - I believe it.


50 posted on 09/21/2010 5:06:55 PM PDT by Ro_Thunder (Press want Obama = “Camelot II - The Return of JFK”, not “Peanuts II - that’s all you’ll have l)
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