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The F-Bomb
Surviving California ^ | 12/3/2010 | Bobbo

Posted on 12/03/2010 9:19:18 PM PST by DoctorZIn

Inquiring minds are reading an intriguing and frightening article by Greg Hunter entitled, “Foreclosure Bombshell“. Mr. Hunter gives the best explanation (yours truly included) of the explosive problem surrounding foreclosures.

The issue centers around the ‘note’…namely its location and why that is so important: ...

(Excerpt) Read more at survivingcalifornia.wordpress.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: blogpimpzot; california; drzot; foreclosure; pimpmyblog; zot; zotbait
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This is a great blog on California by a good friend of mine.

He is a new freeper here on FR.

His FR name is SurvivingCalifornia.

Check out his blog and say hi!

1 posted on 12/03/2010 9:19:20 PM PST by DoctorZIn
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To: Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; Hinoki Cypress; ...

Ping! Check out my friends new blog!

"If you want on or off this ping list, Freepmail DoctorZin”


2 posted on 12/03/2010 9:27:03 PM PST by DoctorZIn (VOTE!!!!!)
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To: DoctorZIn

This is Bobbo from SurvivingCalifornia and just wanted to thank the good Doctor for the nice introduction. I am new to this world and amazed at the number of patriots.

I look forward to getting to know you. Hopefully, you’ll find my blog useful.

Once again, thanks.


3 posted on 12/03/2010 9:39:46 PM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: survivingcalifornia

The guys here on FR are great and they will enjoy your blog.


4 posted on 12/03/2010 9:41:51 PM PST by DoctorZIn (Blog Now!)
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To: DoctorZIn
There are Freepers here that can't enjoy anything. But it was good of you to give an intro. That might avoid some blog pimping pictures.
5 posted on 12/03/2010 9:50:58 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: survivingcalifornia
Welcome. I look forward to escaping the computer limitations at work and reading your blog at home.

Ignore the critics in the future unless it's me :-)

6 posted on 12/03/2010 9:52:22 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: survivingcalifornia

You joined today and already linked your blog? Ha, sorry no traffic from me, not today, maybe after a few thousands days posting on FR, my FRiend.

ps: you content might be good or not, but if its good, then post it here in this thread so we can read it without pimping your blog.


7 posted on 12/03/2010 9:58:45 PM PST by VastRWCon (Taxed to Death)
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To: DoctorZIn

My loan was issued 20 years ago by some bank, can’t remember who, which was bought by Washington Mutual, which was taken over by JP Morgan, which was taken over by Chase. I wonder if anybody has the original note. It sounds as if, even if I finished paying off the note, I wouldn’t be able to obtain clear title to my own house, even though I’m the original owner, because nobody would be able to locate the original paperwork and thus no one has the right to declare the note paid off. Is that correct?


8 posted on 12/03/2010 10:03:53 PM PST by ottbmare (off-the-track Thoroughbred mare)
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To: DoctorZIn; survivingcalifornia

Watch out, the Admin Mods do not look at blog pimping in an overtly friendly manner.

That said, welcome to Free Republic!


9 posted on 12/03/2010 10:11:44 PM PST by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: Danae
Watch out, the Admin Mods do not look at blog pimping in an overtly friendly manner.

Which makes absolutely no sense on a forum where the MSM is mocked and ridiculed daily.

Make up your minds people.

10 posted on 12/03/2010 10:14:27 PM PST by triumphant values (Never criticize that to your right.)
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To: ottbmare

I have heard something similar. That was part of BofA’s big SNAFU right? They were foreclosing on houses, but when the time came to pony up the papers, a lot of them weren’t signed or something was missing, so they had to halt all proceedings. That was just a couple weeks ago I think.

I suppose thems the breaks when you are forced to do a few million foreclosures a year..... (makes me sick)


11 posted on 12/03/2010 10:16:13 PM PST by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: VastRWCon
Ha, sorry no traffic from me, not today, maybe after a few thousands days posting on FR, my FRiend.

But you'll click on a NY Times article?

Which is it? Is the MSM a hostile, liberal force and we should support alternative news and opinion sites? Or do we condemn bloggers bringing us a different view trying to get the word out there?

You can't have it both ways.

12 posted on 12/03/2010 10:18:26 PM PST by triumphant values (Never criticize that to your right.)
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To: triumphant values

Are you the MSM.......... Post your opinion, this is a discussion site. Excerpt if you will or not. This site lives and breathes upon the opinions of its members. That’s all. If your site proves to be something that breaks news then it will get hits. If it’s an opinion piece, not so much.


13 posted on 12/03/2010 10:27:37 PM PST by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: ottbmare

Just because your original paper has been bought and sold it doesn’t do anything to your original obligation nor does it interfere with your payoff of the final payment.


14 posted on 12/03/2010 10:42:49 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: eyedigress
Post your opinion...

I did.

...this is a discussion site.

Thanks for the insight. I couldn't tell.

Excerpt if you will or not.

Ok.

This site lives and breathes upon the opinions of its members. That’s all.

The opinions of what? Could it be the opinions on thousands of...wait for it - articles and columns gathered from around the web that appear at the top of every thread? I wonder.

If your site proves to be something that breaks news then it will get hits. If it’s an opinion piece, not so much.

I'll keep that in mind the next time a NY Times opinion piece gets hundreds of comments below it.

15 posted on 12/03/2010 11:09:06 PM PST by triumphant values (Never criticize that to your right.)
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To: Ramius
Just because your original paper has been bought and sold it doesn’t do anything to your original obligation nor does it interfere with your payoff of the final payment.

Not necessarily, no. But as we're seeing in thousands of cases it most certainly could. Some were assigned in violation of state and federal law.

Some were fraudulently assigned to two parties at the same time.

Some are being collected on by entities with no agency from the creditor.

Some are pursuing court actions to collect that which they have no standing to do so.

And myriad other issues that affect the obligation to pay and to have a debt cleared all due to very shady packaging, selling and assigning methods.

16 posted on 12/03/2010 11:17:11 PM PST by triumphant values (Never criticize that to your right.)
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To: triumphant values

Good. You have answered as well in my view. Thanks for your opinion on the matter. :^)


17 posted on 12/03/2010 11:19:47 PM PST by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: survivingcalifornia

Told you.
Read your blog. I look forward to future posts.
IrishCatholic


18 posted on 12/03/2010 11:25:49 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: Ramius

DITTO. People think because the bank does not have the note they cannot foreclose. Wrong!! States have procedures for dealing with lost notes/titles. Banks have to hire lawyers and auditors to back track and find the last known location of note/title. If it was lost due to a service company or old holder going out of business, the rep for that company (usually a lawyer) will fill out a statement under oath to attest that the note/title was lost. These procedures always existed to account for natural disasters or businesses going out of business and documents being lost due to the chaos. The whole process will take more time, and additional funds spent by bank to document the process and events. The homeowner can still challenge the documentation but if done properly it will be much harder then original issues of robo signing. This process will gunk up the legal system because each foreclosure will be reviewed by a judge. The borrower may have just brought himself an additional 12 to 18 months from eviction.
However the legal issues for mortgage backed securities are different. These investments are sold with a prospectus which must be accurate in its declarations. If Bank of America publishes a prospectus for investors to read before they buy the securities, the info must be accurate and not false. There are SEC procedures and checkpoints that a bank must go thru before publishing such a document. Failure to do so or intentionally not doing that and releasing the prospectus to unsuspecting investors is FRAUD!!! Investment bankers can handle the homeowners, but lawsuits from the pension funds, Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae, foreign governments and other investor funds that brought the mortgage backed securities are another story. Maybe that is why the Feds took a chunk of the TARP and paid off foreign banks who brought a sizable chunk of MBS. Maybe both sides figure it was better to settle with US taxpayer money then drag it out in court with its costs and consequential bad PR.


19 posted on 12/03/2010 11:28:13 PM PST by Fee
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To: DoctorZIn
This is a great blog on California by a good friend of mine. He is a new freeper here on FR. His FR name is SurvivingCalifornia. Check out his blog and say hi!

I did check out your friends blog and I have to point out that in most states a copy of a note is sufficient under a "best evidence" rule if the party has made diligent effort to locate the original.

Not that it matters. Many of these banks don't even have copies for thousands of these loans.

Of course the banks could have avoided all this by paying the courthouse fees to have this all recorded legal beagle, but they wanted to save a few bucks and now they're getting burned. Too bad, so sad.

The recording process is an ancient method used to gird our land title and civil procedure systems for centuries. It isn't some new fangled "technicality" as I've seen some Freepers describing this debacle.

Cut corners and try to bypass our system that dates before the colonies whether for fraud or frugality and pay the consequences.

20 posted on 12/03/2010 11:32:12 PM PST by triumphant values (Never criticize that to your right.)
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To: Fee
If it was lost due to a service company or old holder going out of business, the rep for that company (usually a lawyer) will fill out a statement under oath to attest that the note/title was lost.

But many of them weren't lost. They were intentionally shredded and banks have admitted this in open court. That means when they filed affidavits of lost notes they committed thousands of counts of perjury.

When do the frog marches start?

21 posted on 12/03/2010 11:35:06 PM PST by triumphant values (Never criticize that to your right.)
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To: triumphant values

It depends on why it was shredded. If a company is closing due to bankruptcy, and a clerk asks what do they do with all those files and his first line supervisor did not want it laying around as people don’t give a damn anymore, he may have instructed the clerk to shred it because he did not want people’s personal data laying around. There are many circumstances where documents are shredded by accident as long as the company did not receive a gov notification to hold the documents for an impending investigation. Short of that you are not going to get much legal mileage out of it other then being scolded by the officials for stupidity and incompetence in the handling of mortgage notes/titles. Worst the company that lost the original paperwork will pay a fine or lose their license, but if the physical existence of the documents and the events surrounding its loss is accounted for the foreclosure process still move forward. Does that mean the homeowner can challenge the banks in the second round, yes, but it will be much harder then the first time when paper work was sloppy and signed by robo signing.


22 posted on 12/04/2010 12:05:20 AM PST by Fee
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To: survivingcalifornia

BUMP.

(and welcome to FR) :D


23 posted on 12/04/2010 12:43:11 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: survivingcalifornia; DoctorZIn

Welcome to Free Republic! Nice blog!

It’s so nice to “see” you, doc! ;o)


24 posted on 12/04/2010 12:54:42 AM PST by dixiechick2000 ("First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi)
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To: IrishCatholic

“There are Freepers here that can’t enjoy anything.”

Oh, really? I hadn’t noticed. lol


25 posted on 12/04/2010 12:55:41 AM PST by dixiechick2000 ("First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi)
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To: VastRWCon

Ummmmm...nope.

DoctorZIn linked his blog. He thought it was worthy, and after actually clicking on the link, so do I.

Sheesh...what a drama queen.


26 posted on 12/04/2010 12:58:08 AM PST by dixiechick2000 ("First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi)
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To: triumphant values

You got a big mouth for a noob. FR is here for people to post their opinions, not links to their opinions. For example, over the years I have written several lengthy opinion pieces and posted them here as “vanities”, and some have received several thousand “views” and hundreds of replies. That is way more than most rogue bloggers get in a month.

Who needs a personal blog when there is a huge one available to them right here?

FRegards,
LH


27 posted on 12/04/2010 1:30:23 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

I agree, so I’m posting my standard IB4TZ post.

___________________________________________________________________
Sung to the tune of “Oh! Susanna, don’t you cry for me.” “

.... “Oh, no Bama, please don’t lie to me... for I’m off to Free Republic with a laptop on my knee.”

I come from Minnesota with my laptop on my knee; | I’m goin’ to Free Republic my true love for to see. | It rained all night the day you left, | the weather it was dry; | The sun so hot you froze to death, | Obama don’t you lie. | | Oh! No Bama, don’t you lie to me; | I come from Minnesota, with my laptop on my knee.

I had a dream the other night, | When everything was still; | I thought I saw Obama dear, | A-coming for The Hill. | The smearing lie was in Duluth, | The croc tear in his eye, | Said I, I’m coming for the truth | Obama don’t you lie. | | Oh! No Bama, don’t you lie to me; | I’m off to Free Republic, | with my laptop on my knee.

I fight in my pajamas, | It’s plain for all to see. | I aim to be the next Buckhead; | The media all hate me. | I fell in love with Sarah | When my sister bit a moose. | The Guvnor’s family ate it up | And then they set it loose. | | Oh! No Bama, don’t you lie to me; | I’m off to Free Republic, | with my laptop on my knee.

She loves her sons, she likes her guns, | and Triggernometry. | The media will jump the shark | When she makes history. | Well, JimRob knows she’ll pave the trolls | So controversially, | And Berg will knock Obama down | With friends of Hillary. | | Oh! No Bama, don’t you lie to me; | I’m off to Free Republic with a laptop on my knee.

I soon will be in Hawaii, | And then I’ll look all ‘round, | And when I find his birth record, | I’ll fall upon the ground. | But if I do not find it, | This Freeper’ll surely die, | And when I’m dead and buried, | Obama don’t you lie. | | Oh! No Bama, don’t you cry for me; | I’m off to Free Republic with a laptop on my knee.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2073903/posts?page=30#30


28 posted on 12/04/2010 2:15:26 AM PST by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: DoctorZIn

Interesting! thanks for adding me FRiend. As opposed to some here, I enjoy & appreciate blogs.


29 posted on 12/04/2010 3:36:57 AM PST by DollyCali (Don't tell God how big your storm is... tell your storm how BIG your God is!)
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To: survivingcalifornia
Welcome to Freerepublic!

History of FreeRepublic


30 posted on 12/04/2010 3:52:25 AM PST by Las Vegas Dave (To anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a Liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: VastRWCon; survivingcalifornia
You joined today and already linked your blog?

You joined almost eight years ago and still can't figure out who linked to the blog? (hint, it wasn't survivingcalifornia)

31 posted on 12/04/2010 3:58:13 AM PST by Roccus (OUR GOVERNMENT IS COMPRISED OF BUFFOONS, TRAITORS, CRIMINALS AND IDIOTS!!!!!!!)
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To: triumphant values

I agree. Besides, FR has a section for blogs on the front page. I never understood why some FReepers complain so much. Blogging is where we can actually get some news without FR being sued. Be grateful we have this site to get some exposure for folks writing that aren’t connected to the MSM.


32 posted on 12/04/2010 3:58:58 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Looking for our Sam Adams)
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To: survivingcalifornia
Photobucket
33 posted on 12/04/2010 4:01:14 AM PST by Roccus (OUR GOVERNMENT IS COMPRISED OF BUFFOONS, TRAITORS, CRIMINALS AND IDIOTS!!!!!!!)
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To: DoctorZIn

thanks for the supportive comments.


34 posted on 12/04/2010 4:34:14 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: IrishCatholic

Thanks so much.


35 posted on 12/04/2010 4:34:21 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: IrishCatholic

Okay, I love the term but what does “blog pimping pictures” mean?

I gots to know!


36 posted on 12/04/2010 4:34:25 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: VastRWCon

Dude! I’m a newbie for sure but don’t get so heated so fast. I didn’t post my blog. My friend did. And he has been here for several years.

So do you think I should I tell him to erase it? Yeah, no way...


37 posted on 12/04/2010 4:34:27 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: ottbmare

I have actually run into that! I am not sure that they were an “original” owner but they had paid off their mortgage and the note couldn’t be found.

This is an unbelievable problem that is going to be with us for years.


38 posted on 12/04/2010 4:34:32 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: Danae

Thanks. I am just looking forward to finding my way around here. My friend thought he was doing me a favor. He has been my biggest cheerleader. In fact, he was the one who kept telling me to start my blog. And then, he finally went in and ‘flipped’ the switch to make it public because he knew that I never would flip it myself because I would always want to get something a little better.


39 posted on 12/04/2010 4:34:48 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: Danae

They all have had their share of screw-ups. I rmember reading of a case in NY last year (I think) and a judge got so pissed with BofA or Wells that he slammed his gavel down and declared the house to be the owners. The bank had missed something like 5 straight court appointments and then the bank representative was caught lying by the judge on more than one issue. Meanwhile, the family was made up of both parents being invalids and their daughter who was taking care of them. It was one of the few moments in this crisis where I cheered a judicial decision.


40 posted on 12/04/2010 4:34:57 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: IrishCatholic

Thanks. You WERE right!


41 posted on 12/04/2010 4:35:03 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: Ramius

But that IS THE POINT. IT DOES change. Try getting paid on an IOU that you lose. Or pay for something that with a $100 bill that you have lost. If you lose the note, then you lose the chance for payment.


42 posted on 12/04/2010 4:35:04 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: triumphant values

I was taught that in law that you have to have two things to have standing in court: 1) ownership and 2) injury.

The banks ripped in two the the trust deeds. They kept the ownership while giving the finacial risk away. I am not a lawyer but I don’t know how the bank can go to court. They own the note but don’t have any injury because they have already sold the financial interest.

How is the bank hurt? And how does the holder of the note show ‘ownership’?


43 posted on 12/04/2010 4:35:12 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: triumphant values

I was taught that in law that you have to have two things to have standing in court: 1) ownership and 2) injury.

The banks ripped in two the the trust deeds. They kept the ownership while giving the finacial risk away. I am not a lawyer but I don’t know how the bank can go to court. They own the note but don’t have any injury because they have already sold the financial interest.

How is the bank hurt? And how does the holder of the note show ‘ownership’?


44 posted on 12/04/2010 4:35:15 AM PST by survivingcalifornia (ultra-newbie)
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To: Ramius
Just because your original paper has been bought and sold it doesn’t do anything to your original obligation nor does it interfere with your payoff of the final payment.

The obligation is to the note holder, who has an obligation to prove that they've properly assumed and secured the note, including title to the home which can legally be transferred upon completion of payment of obligations under the terms of the contract.

I used to work in the Mortgage industry for ABN AMRO and spent two years in their mortgage division before the housing meltdown. I know of what I speak here. If the bank cannot prove they hold clear, unadulterated title as the holder of the mortgage note, the BANK itself has violated the terms of the contract and the Home owner has no obligation to continue making payments until the Bank as the holder of the note rectifies the problem.

That does not mean the "homeowner" gets a free house, far from it. What it means is they'd best take all legal steps to protect themselves and their interest in the home by obtaining legal counsel and escrowing their mortgage payments into a separate bank account until the problem can be resolved.

Myself, I discovered six months ago that Wells Fargo had acquired my mortgage note and sent me a letter indicating such. Asserting my legal rights, I requested proof that they had both the note and title to the home so that I could be sure when I paid off my home I'd receive clear title.

Six months down the road, Wells Fargo still hasn't done so. Not only that, they have the address of my property wrong on their statements, the description they sent of my property is incorrect, and the township to which I pay my taxes on their paperwork is incorrect. The only thing they have right thus far is my legal name (and that's questionable since I'm a "Jr." and they don't list my suffix on their paperwork as it appears on my mortgage) and the PIN# of my property.

Am I going to try and "shake them down" for a free house? No. I'm 9 years into a 15 year mortgage and frankly what's left to pay off on my house is such as small amount it wouldn't be worth the aggravation for me. What I am interested in is paying off my house (I hate Wells Fargo) and getting the hell out of Illinois (I hate this state!) and moving somewhere more climatically and politcally temperate than here. I can't do that if I can't get clear title to my house and sell it.

45 posted on 12/04/2010 4:56:35 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: survivingcalifornia

California (and 29 other states) are “Non-judicial Foreclosure” states...the “produce the note” trick won’t currently work in CA...although the delinquents attorneys are hammering away at it:
http://www.realtytrac.com/foreclosure-laws/foreclosure-laws-comparison.asp
http://rismedia.com/2010-03-15/obtaining-due-process-in-non-judicial-foreclosure-states/
http://www.foreclosureradar.com/foreclosure-guides/foreclosure-101/non-judicial-foreclosure-process


46 posted on 12/04/2010 4:57:34 AM PST by Drago (I bought a house i could easily afford...I want my bailout in cash please! (or a granite counter!))
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To: survivingcalifornia

welcome to FR


47 posted on 12/04/2010 4:59:19 AM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Why are TSA exempt from their own searches?)
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To: usconservative
I can't do that if I can't get clear title to my house and sell it.

.....and therein lies a problem that dwarfs the "F-Bomb." (jmho)

48 posted on 12/04/2010 5:02:42 AM PST by Roccus (OUR GOVERNMENT IS COMPRISED OF BUFFOONS, TRAITORS, CRIMINALS AND IDIOTS!!!!!!!)
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To: triumphant values; Fee
But many of them weren't lost. They were intentionally shredded and banks have admitted this in open court. That means when they filed affidavits of lost notes they committed thousands of counts of perjury.

I won't get into the "shredded" aspects of this, but having worked for a mortgage servicing company, they weren't "shredded" they were imaged and stored electronically. Paper copies were supposed to be stored for legal archive purposes for the life of the loans + 7 years as required by law. (Some states vary, but that's typically been the rule.)

What some are taking issue with is that when challenged in court to provide *original* copies of mortgage contracts, deed documents, etc.. many of the 2nd and 3rd holders of mortgages cannot easily do that. They can provide original scanned images of the documents, but not the original, physical paperwork itself. Some have used this as an 'excuse' to not pay their mortgages to try and win the 'free house lottery' in the Court system. Others have used this as a delay tactic to keep from being evicted from their homes (as noted in an above post.)

The Courts will have to set and enforce a standard under which Banks, Servicing Companies or other mortgage note holders will have to meet in the future to foreclose or clear title. Most states already have processes in place to deal with this (again as noted in an above post.)

49 posted on 12/04/2010 5:07:33 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Roccus
.....and therein lies a problem that dwarfs the "F-Bomb."

Exactly. Most people don't get that as they're not looking at the longer term impacts of what's going on right now.

It won't matter that the housing market has crashed, or that the tax code is revised to eliminate the home mortgage deduction. If I can't prove I own my home, I can't sell it and it's worthless. If the bank that says they hold my note can't clear title, then I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on nothing and have incurred a huge loss on ... nothing.

Me, I just want to get the hell out of this sh*tty state.

50 posted on 12/04/2010 5:10:15 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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