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Democrat Jim Moran says US military cannot win the war in Afghanistan
Examiner ^ | December 5, 2010 | Marc Schenker

Posted on 12/05/2010 4:31:38 AM PST by Suvroc10

Democrat Jim Moran says US military cannot win the war in Afghanistan. Remember when G.W. Bush was president, and it seemed like every other Democrat would declare that the US can’t win the war…whether that was in Iraq or Afghanistan? Well, now that Barack Obama is president, the Democrats are still as anti-war and anti-military as ever, the only difference being that the mainstream media doesn’t report on their statements of comfort and aid to the enemy nearly as much as when Bush was president. On Friday’s "Hardball," Moran, who’s a congressman from Virginia, declared that Afghanistan was not a "winnable war," and he even went so far as to claim that military leaders agreed with him!

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: defeatism; democrat; moran; treason

1 posted on 12/05/2010 4:31:46 AM PST by Suvroc10
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To: Suvroc10

How does that maroon keep getting elected?


2 posted on 12/05/2010 4:35:22 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (I'd open it myself but I don't have any thumbs.)
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To: Suvroc10

The USA is going to Hell in a Handbasket and the people in charge are fighting over putting flaming homos in the Marines. This is insanity.


3 posted on 12/05/2010 4:39:44 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Americanism vs Communism)
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To: Suvroc10

He lives in an area that either works for or lives off of big government. That is all.


4 posted on 12/05/2010 4:40:56 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Americanism vs Communism)
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To: Past Your Eyes

Federal gubmint worker parasites all over the district.


5 posted on 12/05/2010 4:44:24 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Amber Lamps !"~~)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

With so-called “leaders” like moran (aka: moron) NOTHING is winnable. What a putz.


6 posted on 12/05/2010 4:54:18 AM PST by hal ogen (1st Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: screaminsunshine

The Homo-fascists and the abortion lobby have crammed down our throats both buggery and butchery and called it normal, acceptable. We are in the end times.


7 posted on 12/05/2010 4:58:19 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Suvroc10

Smash Mouth Obama needs to let the US military fight the war with a passion to “win!” Afghanistan cannot be won by a bunch of limp wristed leaders that are more concerned about putting homosexuals into the ranks than they are of putting enemy combatants into their graves.


8 posted on 12/05/2010 4:58:26 AM PST by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: central_va

Unless ousted from power the Democrats will destroy what is left of the USA. I just hope and pray we have the House back in American hands now and they will stop the Communists.


9 posted on 12/05/2010 5:05:09 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Americanism vs Communism)
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To: Suvroc10

If we are not going to fight a war to decimate and win by total domination, I agree, get out.

like Vietnam, I am in favor of total war, not just being there as targets...We won Vietnam eight ways from Sunday but we pussy footed around instead of vaporizing the cities of the north....Curtis Lemay should have been President...not Johnson/Nixon/Ford.

if the purpose of the Afghan deal, was to get rid of bin laden, and we either did or did not kill him in tora bora, then either press into the wilderness in Afghan or Poc-e-ston and kill him or leave. WTF are we doing???

We beat that other POS in Iraq...we even helped stabilize these turds...but we need to leave....come back and kick @$$ again if necessary but why stay??

I know it is not popular with our current POSOTUS and the current congress, but drill in all those ‘illegal’ places here in America(ANWR, off shore etc.) for oil so we are not beholding to petty dictators for energy....drill for Marcellus shale natural gas....build a couple of dozen nuclear power plants...

and dont worry about protecting the middle east as an oil reserve...


10 posted on 12/05/2010 5:05:12 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein.)
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To: Suvroc10

Well he’s right as long as the Rules Of Engagement are what they are....


11 posted on 12/05/2010 5:05:15 AM PST by Doofer
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To: Suvroc10

In order to WIN any military conflict we have to do several thing that we currently don’t do:
1) Kill enemy soldiers and lots of them
2) Shoot back when shot at
3) Get rid of the lawyers (You can’t win when your soldiers are more afraid of the lawyers than the enemy)
4) Keep our intel secret (vet all journalists and correspondents)
5) Accept the fact that enemy civilians will get killed along with enemy soldiers
6) Make the enemy fear you
7) Execute spys and collaborators
8) Keeo the politicians out of the loop. Politicians should have no power in military decision making.


12 posted on 12/05/2010 5:06:46 AM PST by BuffaloJack (The Recession is officially over. We are now into Obama's Depression.)
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To: screaminsunshine

Maybe it is the time for the great divide....


13 posted on 12/05/2010 5:08:32 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Past Your Eyes
How does that maroon keep getting elected?

I do what I can, but we've got too many maroons up here in Northern Virginia.

14 posted on 12/05/2010 5:09:57 AM PST by COBOL2Java (Obama is the least qualified guy in whatever room he walks into.)
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To: central_va

If we can withstand the Lame Duck Quack Attack we will have to stop the MSM onslaught for the next two years.


15 posted on 12/05/2010 5:13:57 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Americanism vs Communism)
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To: Suvroc10

I actually agree with him. It’s pretty hard to win a war when your CIC has strong sympathy for the enemy.


16 posted on 12/05/2010 5:14:39 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Suvroc10

Had a naturalized American citizen-a man who in so many ways is like most naturalized citizens —seeming more Patriotic and more aware of how sweet it is to be able to live as an American...And my friend came to America from Russia. HE had fought as a Russian soldier in Afghanistan-and will carry the scars for the rest of his life. Whoever patched him up did a fair job of it—the scaring from his entry and exit wounds are
less horrific than some I have seen. He has said consistently American cannot hope to win in Afghanistan.We cant do any better than the USSR did-and our leaving will be under much the same terms. Sad to say— but I find No compelling reason to not agree with this former Military opine.His opinion was not based upon vanity or any myth about the finest ,most powerful Russian Army.But his opine was based upon field experience.


17 posted on 12/05/2010 5:18:46 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: Suvroc10

Define win.


18 posted on 12/05/2010 5:19:54 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: Suvroc10
Democrat Jim Moran is probably right. We cannot "win" the war in Afghanistan by traditional measures. There is not a nation there with any sort of homogeneous and united population. The people there don't even think of themselves as being party of any nation. The "people" will not ever come together to permanently eliminate the bad actors among them and the foreigner jihadists.

That said we are denying the enemy the use of the area for their traìning and planning bases. In that sense we are winning and will win so long as we are there. Afghanistan is not a discrete war. It is a campaign, a border fight, a holding action in the wider Islamic War.

This war is pretty much the same thing as the Cold War was but the people on the other side don't even have any pretensions of civilization. It is like the Indian Wars but the enemy population is not small as the Indians were and most of the combatants come from outside of the delimited zone of action and can return outside of it for recomposition. Iraq is another campaign and holding action. We win if we keep it out of the clutches of Iran and of Al Quaeda until Iran itself is pacified.

So long as we are paying for the Saracen to wage war against us he will wage war against us and so long as we buy our oil from the Saracen we are paying the Saracen to wage war against us. That is the reason he exists.

19 posted on 12/05/2010 5:29:15 AM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Suvroc10

Isn’t this the war that “we must win?”


20 posted on 12/05/2010 5:32:40 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: BuffaloJack

I agree with all of them except for this one:

2) Shoot back when shot at

You don’t win by reacting. You win by acting. A person in a war zone that is not wearing the uniform of us or our allies is an enemy. You shoot enemies.


21 posted on 12/05/2010 5:42:27 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Obama is like a rocket scientist....who's trying to do brain surgery with a hammer.)
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To: Suvroc10
He's wrong ... we COULD win the war. But the way we are waging it, it will be like the war in Orwell's book ...something far away that goes on and on. We'll never win, we'll never lose ... our people will just keep dying.

What I do agree with him on ... I do not believe we will EVER will a "politically correct" war. You either go to war to kill people ... all people, women, children, combatants, infrastructure ... making it look like Berlin at the end of WWII ... or you stop "fooling around" getting our soldiers killed on the ground for a bunch of people who could care less and get the hell out of there. They "form up" and try to hit us, we toast them, from the air out of harm's way ... period!

If you cannot stand the thought of killing ALL people, then you have to question your motives for going to war in the first place ... is it political, economic, etc? You go kill people because they are trying to kill you, there is NO OTHER REASON for war. Otherwise stay home and pray for peace or go talk, talk, talk at the UN to make yourself "feel better!"

If they hit us, we carpet bomb the place ... we make them AFRAID of us so they "check" their bad behavior.

The key word is "afraid" ... and with this wimpy government, nobody is afraid of us ... and consequently more and more skirmishes and acts of terror will crop up ... because there is no "downside" ... you kill 240 people in a terrorist act and you go to jail ... that's not a defeat, that's a victory! If you are a foreign terrorist and cause a terrorist act in the USA that kills Americans, your "home town" in your country of origin simply disappears. That would only have to happen once or twice and people would start rethinking terrorism. A little peer pressure might even change the curriculum in the madrassas which gets us to the problem's root cause.

22 posted on 12/05/2010 5:48:46 AM PST by ThePatriotsFlag (You are just jealous because the voices aren't talking to YOU!)
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To: Suvroc10
We can't win while there is a Pakistan.(That's where the surge keeps coming from!)We need an army to hold the borders and another one to fight the insurgets.
You have to plug the leaks first!
23 posted on 12/05/2010 5:50:47 AM PST by cavador ("Self determination is not a malfunction"!(Harkness;Fallout 3 Rivet City 2077))
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To: Suvroc10

If the politicians would keep out of it..My thoughts are unethical but pull all the troops out and vaporize the whole area.


24 posted on 12/05/2010 6:07:52 AM PST by JamesA (You don't have to be big to stand tall)
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To: Suvroc10

You know we can win the military conflict, but to win the hearts and minds of those whose Islamofacist facades are regathered daily due to their surrounding is unwin_able..Sure any sane person would want freedom and peace, but this group of folks has been living the tortured Mohammmmm BS for so long its become normal to them...so unless we replace the population with modern free thinking folks, I’d say we have lost in the end...not the war, but the country..


25 posted on 12/05/2010 6:11:46 AM PST by aces
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To: Suvroc10

The ‘rat lunatic must be taking a page out of Harry POS Reid’s playbook.


26 posted on 12/05/2010 6:16:44 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Past Your Eyes

Not with their hands tied by stupid ROE. Not with a president that doesn’t WANT to win. Not with a president who whats the USA to LOOK BAD.


27 posted on 12/05/2010 6:20:21 AM PST by GailA (NO JESUS, NO CHRISTmas!)
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To: Suvroc10

“Democrat Jim Moran says US military cannot win the war in Afghanistan.”

Partially correct. The US Military can certainly defeat any foe and win any war if that war is fought as a war and not as a social experiment, a police action, and under extreme rules of engagement restrictions.

In war you seek out the enemy “all of the enemy” and kill as many of him as fast as possible for as long as it takes to force a surrender or to kill them al off.
What are we doing? Searching 5 year olds at Air Ports instead of the muslims with who are are at war..


28 posted on 12/05/2010 6:24:34 AM PST by SECURE AMERICA
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To: Suvroc10

Is this asshat still beating up 9 year old Boys?


29 posted on 12/05/2010 6:43:12 AM PST by mortal19440
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To: Suvroc10

..not a “winnable war”, and he even went so far as to claim some military leaders agreed with him.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

LETS ADD TO THAT LAST SENTENCE.

...agreed with him, saying that as long as the idiotic ROE remain in place and the Pols keep tying our hands we will be there forever.

“Much the same as WE declared when these fiasco’s started some 9 years ago”.


30 posted on 12/05/2010 6:43:33 AM PST by xrmusn ((6/98))
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To: arthurus

>> We win if we keep it out of the clutches of Iran and of Al Quaeda until Iran itself is pacified <<

Among those I’ve seen on FR and elsewhere, yours is perhaps the best brief explanation of what we must do. Kudos!

Just let me emphasize what you and others on this thread have suggested, namely, that Afghanistan really isn’t a “nation” or a “country.” The place basically is little more than a series of lines on westerners’ maps — a “buffer zone” that dates back to the “Great Game” between Russia and Great Britain in the 19th century.

Within the area enclosed by the Brits’ and Russkies’ artificial lines, there live a hodgepodge of tribes and linguistic groups with no natural resources to speak of, with almost no potential for modern industry or high-yield agriculture, and with no real sense of national cohesion.

Therefore, any hopes of “nation building” and “victory” are pie-in-the-sky illusions. But the USA certainly shouldn’t withdraw. Rather, we should prepare to maintain a small but effective military presence indefinitely, both to deny Al Qaeda a sanctuary and to keep the Iranians from expanding eastward.


31 posted on 12/05/2010 6:56:06 AM PST by Hawthorn
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To: screaminsunshine
I think it's time to bring them home now. Put then on our borders. This will never happen but how long are we going to stay in Afghanistan and how many more of our men will die and for what reason it's been ten years. Let them kill each other.
32 posted on 12/05/2010 7:00:56 AM PST by angcat (DEAR GOD PLEASE SAVE OUR COUNTRY!)
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To: Suvroc10

The Moron that keeps giving,victory is hard when CIC is defined as Clown in Chief.


33 posted on 12/05/2010 7:26:56 AM PST by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: Suvroc10

As much as I detest Moran, he is just saying what a lot of people are thinking, and they are correct.

1) NATO forces are about 175,000 + 100,000 fairly useless Afghan army. Afghanistan has 30,000,000 people, and is next door to 177,000,000 Pakistanis. Afghanistan is about the same size as Texas.

2) Though at any time there are only about 30,000 active Taliban forces, they have continual and perpetual reinforcement from the madrassas, radical religious schools, in Pakistan. This means that practically speaking, no matter how many NATO forces die or are incapacitated, there will still be 30,000 Taliban.

3) NATO can neither hold ground, nor can they change “hearts and minds”, because as soon as they leave an area, the Taliban return to reassert their control, beating and killing anyone who cooperated.

4) The Taliban still have major money pipelines providing them the resources to fight, as well as the occasional radical foreign expert who provides them with technical guidance so they can maintain more than a primitive level of hostilities. This is strongly augmented by the Iranians, and many in the Pakistani government and ISI, their intelligence agency who are sympathetic to them.

Now, this being said, we cannot “win”. But importantly, this does not mean that it is not important to be there, nor that we can “lose”, either.

Right now the US is spending about $100m to build a very advanced installation out of the fray, in more peaceful northern Afghanistan, a city called Mazar-i-Sharif.

It is of enormous value, because it is near the borders of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and the small arm of Afghanistan that reached to the border with China. All of which are of great importance to American intelligence operations.


34 posted on 12/05/2010 7:33:28 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
It is of enormous value, because it is near the borders of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and the small arm of Afghanistan that reached to the border with China. All of which are of great importance to American intelligence operations.

Which might be the *real* reason we're there.

Incidentally, in keeping with the title of the thread:

Cheers!

35 posted on 12/05/2010 8:35:47 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Suvroc10

With ROE the way they are and the strength of the ropes binding our troops hands behind their back, he could be right.


36 posted on 12/05/2010 8:45:54 AM PST by Personal Responsibility (The more the plans fail the more the planners plan - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Vaquero
I agree with you. This war is not being FOUGHT. It's another..., I don't even know WHAT to call it.

Let's get out and let them have their own country - whatever it turns out to be.

37 posted on 12/05/2010 9:18:49 AM PST by raybbr (Someone who invades another country is NOT an immigrant - illegal or otherwise.)
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To: COBOL2Java

Yeah, I lived there once myself but never voted there. (Quantico)


38 posted on 12/05/2010 10:37:00 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (I'd open it myself but I don't have any thumbs.)
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To: grey_whiskers; yefragetuwrabrumuy
Photobucket

Link mistyped in my last post.

39 posted on 12/05/2010 11:10:05 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers; yefragetuwrabrumuy
Photobucket

Link mistyped in my last post.

40 posted on 12/05/2010 11:10:11 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Suvroc10

If we continue with the ROE we currently have, then he’s right.


41 posted on 12/05/2010 11:11:15 AM PST by dfwgator (Congratulations to Josh Hamilton - AL MVP)
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To: grey_whiskers

LOL!


42 posted on 12/05/2010 11:14:41 AM PST by Ditter
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