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Have South American natives inherited a legacy of violent blood shed?
http://www.888webtoday.com ^ | 2/10/2011 | Victor Du Bois

Posted on 02/10/2011 6:43:58 AM PST by geraldmcg

I watched a National Geographic special the other day on NetFlix. It was about the Mayan culture in South America and Mexico. This documentary was about several anthropologist who took it upon themselves to decipher the ancient hieroglyphics that covered the buildings and walls of the decaying Mayan structures. It was quite ironic how the anthropologists romanticized the undisturbed culture of the Mayans and the harm (they say) Spanish priests brought to their way of life. Well, according to the history of their "civilization" these people lived in constant conflict and fear. War and bloodshed was a common community concern. The various tribes were in constant power struggles and on top of that they had to appease their hungry God's with the blood of their own children. Then the Spaniards came in and enforced a new religion that brought about order and civility. "Oh what a shame." Were they not happy living in there old hostile culture? Now the anthropologists are reintroducing the history and texts of the Mayan "Utopia" to the Mayan descendants that exist today.

In modern American history, our complacency when it comes to border security has opened a very clear window into the volatile culture of the Mexican drug cartels. I believe that the spirit of the Mayan people lives on today as a legacy of corruption, power struggles, turf wars and the unspeakable barbaric murders that are a daily occurrence along our border with Mexico. The Christian box that the Spaniards tried to force the natives into many years ago, may have bought a season of peace and order, but without a true change of heart, the ways of their Mayan fathers has become manifest once again. Now America willfully reaps the consequences as the Democrats try to cultivate Latino votes to secure their power for years to come.


TOPICS: History; Politics; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: blood; cartels; civilization; mayan; numbers; race; utopia; violence
Courtesy of: Plausible Ponderings from a Middle Aged Conservative Right Wing Red Neck Caucasian American Christian otherwise known as Victor Du Bois
1 posted on 02/10/2011 6:44:03 AM PST by geraldmcg
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To: geraldmcg

Yeah, that’s fine, but why is he using “88”?

I may agree or disagree with the point he is making here, I don’t know, I haven’t read it.

But the fact that he is dealing with racial issues with the subtext “88” either means this guy is an complete idiot, or he is using the well known code “88” which some fags use to mean “HH”: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/88_(number)


2 posted on 02/10/2011 6:49:59 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge, MA grad student. Any potential conservative Christian FReepmail-FRiends out there?)
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To: geraldmcg
Courtesy of: Plausible Ponderings from a Middle Aged Conservative Right Wing Red Neck Caucasian American Christian otherwise known as Victor Du Bois

Sounds like someone I would like to be friends with.

3 posted on 02/10/2011 6:51:18 AM PST by thethirddegree (Islam is a vile, barbaric, perverted, depraved,seditious cult invented by a murdering pedophile)
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To: geraldmcg
All humans have inherited a legacy of violent blood shed.

Mexicans are a mix of Spanish and Indian. Those with Spanish blood control the military, the economy, the culture. Those Indians not subjugated and interbred with are still oppressed violently by the Spanish.

But it is the Indians who are the problem! Cuz they used to cut peoples hearts out!

Racist blog pimping drivel.

4 posted on 02/10/2011 6:55:12 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

You seem to have a racist attitude toward the Spanish.


5 posted on 02/10/2011 6:57:31 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (BO + MB = BOMB -- The One will make sure they get one.)
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To: geraldmcg
Leftist academicians have been propagating the lie of the peaceful native whose culture was destroyed by the evil Europeans for decades. The slaughters, well depicted in the movie "Apocalypto', were ignored or glossed over. As were the slaugter of millions by those non-Euros, the Mongols in earlier centuries. Many Indian tribes above Mexico were also warlike. This is not to exonerate the Europeans of any of their evil deeds. But this is why all historical works written by avowed leftists have to be examined closely. You simply can't trust many of them to deliver accurate, unbiased historical messages.

For example, recently I was watching some program on tv about pre-Columbus America that insisted there were over one hundred million Indians living in North and Central America before the Euros. Every factual account of the Indian population I've read puts the number at between three to ten million before Columbus.

6 posted on 02/10/2011 6:59:50 AM PST by driftless2 (For long-term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: geraldmcg

Has he ever looked at what the Greeks, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Danes, Goths, Visigoths, Franks, Vandals, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, Picts, Lusitani, Iberians Celts, etc. were doing at several points in history in terms of war, bloodshed and human sacrifice?


7 posted on 02/10/2011 7:00:51 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: geraldmcg
How did a hundred Conquistadors take out the Aztec Empire? Conveniently left out of most all accounts are the ~40,000 non-Aztec natives who rallied around the Spaniards to defeat their brutal overlords.

The history of the stone age Americas is one of constant warfare, misogyny, slavery, and brutality.

8 posted on 02/10/2011 7:01:08 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Only if I implied that they had “inherited” a tendency to oppress and dominate in excess of any other human population due to their unique cultural history.

I didn't.

They did the same as any other human culture would when presented with an abundance of natural resources controlled by a militarily weaker and less advanced society.

As President Teddy Roosevelt said (paraphrase) ‘it is ridiculous to assume that North America would remain the last great refuge of horticultural sooty and not be replaced, as it was elsewhere all over the globe, by an agricultural society.’

9 posted on 02/10/2011 7:06:29 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: SampleMan
How did a hundred Conquistadors take out the Aztec Empire?

In addition to the non-Aztec natives who allied with the Spanish, the GREAT DIFFERENCE was technology. The Aztecs were living in what was essentially a Stone Age material culture. The Spanish brought, among other things, weapons, iron, steel, metal armor, the wheel and horses as well.

10 posted on 02/10/2011 7:08:21 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia
The Spanish brought, among other things, weapons, iron, steel, metal armor, the wheel and horses as well.

Yet, they were otherwise so massively outnumbered that the steel and firearms would have made little difference. I think the native help used to be discounted in order to enhance the glory of the feat and recently it has been ignored in order to demonize the feat.

11 posted on 02/10/2011 7:12:17 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

Looks like he’s using 888, not 88.


12 posted on 02/10/2011 7:12:57 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmit in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: geraldmcg

The general point of this article is to laugh at the anthropologists for how they accused the Spanish of corrupting a (violent unruly) society by introducing the Christian faith. As a Christian I know it is foolish to try and enforce a religion by the sword. Christianity must be chosen not coerced. Also, I am saying that the violent culture of the Mayan people was passed on to future generations and continues today in the illegal drug trade.


13 posted on 02/10/2011 7:14:26 AM PST by geraldmcg (Clarifications (if needed))
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To: SampleMan

I do not discount the native help the Spanish benefitted from, and indeed, think it was probably the deciding factor. But the technology they brought was also an important element. One of the advantages of their technology that had nothing to do with being outnumbered was its ability to stun, frighten and freeze the Aztecs, a kind of conquistadors’ shock and awe.


14 posted on 02/10/2011 7:16:40 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: IYAS9YAS

The 888 simply represents a new beginning. (according to the web site author)


15 posted on 02/10/2011 7:17:17 AM PST by geraldmcg (888 answer)
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To: SampleMan
A small military advantage can become a huge factor.

A cadre of 100 Spanish troops in armor with guns and swords could easily defeat 500 natives with stone-tip spears.

Once you reach that level of military advantage, all you need fear is a cadre of troops willing to engage in the cold calculus that enough of them could eventually wear you down and kill you all.

The natives didn't have any troops capable of withstanding that sort of carnage and a style of warfare they were absolutely unused to.

Look at Pizarro and Peru. 200 Spanish troops defeated an army of tens of thousands.

16 posted on 02/10/2011 7:21:22 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: IYAS9YAS

Yeah, so he’s trying to be clever about it. This writer is clearly trying to express his urges & fondness towards a certain reichsfuhrer. Or he’s an idiot. One of the two.


17 posted on 02/10/2011 7:22:20 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge, MA grad student. Any potential conservative Christian FReepmail-FRiends out there?)
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To: geraldmcg

“The 888 simply represents a new beginning. (according to the web site author)”

And that might be plausible, if he weren’t dealing with racial issues.

I want to deal with racial issues. It’s vital to do so. But I do not want to do so under such a pretext.


18 posted on 02/10/2011 7:23:55 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge, MA grad student. Any potential conservative Christian FReepmail-FRiends out there?)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

Well, I wasn’t certain about the 888, but I did a quick search on what it means, and several hits came back as being the symbol for Christ - as it represents infinity when laid sideways. I plead ignorance to that, never heard it before, and most responses were like wiki answers or ask.com.


19 posted on 02/10/2011 7:26:51 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmit in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: IYAS9YAS

Yeah, but as I say in post #18:

And that might be plausible, if he weren’t dealing with racial issues.

I want to deal with racial issues. It’s vital to do so. But I do not want to do so under such a pretext.


20 posted on 02/10/2011 7:30:54 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge, MA grad student. Any potential conservative Christian FReepmail-FRiends out there?)
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To: allmendream

21 men with rocks beats one man with an M4 and 20 rounds every time, IF 20 of them are willing to die.

In cases of 100 to 1 odds, small military advantage is more powerful as a pschological weapon than as a real advantage, but a real advantage never the less.


21 posted on 02/10/2011 7:35:56 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: La Lydia

Don’t forget the psychological effect of their mythology that firmly and specifically predicted that strange men would arrive via the eastern ocean to end the Aztec Empire.

That’s the sort of thing that scares the hell out of people.


22 posted on 02/10/2011 7:38:18 AM PST by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: geraldmcg

Have South American natives inherited a legacy of violent bloodshed?

Yes. Haven’t we all?

And the Southies still live the legacy, don’t they? Simon Bolivar’s epitaph reads, “Whomsoever has worked for a revolution has plowed the sea.”


23 posted on 02/10/2011 7:39:31 AM PST by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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To: SampleMan
Well yes, a psychological weapon becomes a real advantage, UNLESS you have a hardcore cadre of troops willing to engage in the “cold calculus” of attrition.

There are few groups of warriors I would be willing to bet would be able to withstand that disproportionate level of carnage and still fight on to the last.

24 posted on 02/10/2011 7:41:07 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: SampleMan
La Noche Triste ("the night of sorrows") on June 30, 1520 was an important episode during the Spanish conquest of Mexico wherein Hernán Cortés' conquest of the Aztec Empire was nearly halted in the Mexica capital at Tenochtitlan, and Cortés himself barely escaped. -wiki

Once you captured the leader (Moctezuma/Pizarro) it was the end. In the case of Moctezuma, hid own turned against him.

25 posted on 02/10/2011 7:41:14 AM PST by anglian
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To: geraldmcg

If they Mayans, pre Christianity, murdered for religion, are forever a subhuman race, what does this writer say about the Romans who murdered for entertainment. This article is racist filth.


26 posted on 02/10/2011 8:05:50 AM PST by JimSEA
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To: SampleMan; La Lydia
The Spanish brought, among other things, weapons, iron, steel, metal armor, the wheel and horses as well.

A great read on that takeover is Bernal Diaz' "The Conquest of New Spain". Diaz was one of Cortez' men. The technology bit really blew my mind in a couple of places. Diaz reported (paraphrased) that when attacking the capital across those bridges, Captain X "took three crossbowmen and 3,000 Indian Auxiliaries to breach the position."

There was also a difference in approaches to battle - I understand that, like our Indians, fighting was very stylized and used mainly to obtain captives for sacrifice. On the other hand, the Conquistadors were one tough bunch. The standard treatment for cuts was to sear the wound with a red hot iron, then coat it with oil. In one instance they ran out of oil and Diaz says they cut open a dead Indian and used the body fat for the same purpose. No wonder they won.

27 posted on 02/10/2011 8:29:02 AM PST by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: geraldmcg

This article does not imply that the Mayans have the corner on violent history. Nor does it claim that any other ethnic group is void of a violence in some part of its history. It is amazing how responders to this post bring their own presuppositions of racism to this issue. The history of the world is long enough that every people group has more than one skeleton in its closet. The intent of the article was to reveal the ignorance of the anthropologists and the assumptions they made about the Mayan culture.


28 posted on 02/10/2011 8:38:26 AM PST by geraldmcg (Implications Unintended)
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To: geraldmcg

You’ve got your facts wrong. Originally, Eric Thompson thought Maya civilization was some kind of war-free idyll, but then epigraphers like Yuri Knorosov and David Stuart (the youngest recipient of the Macarthur Genius grant btw) figured out the writing, and we learned that the Maya were as warlike as any other civilization (surprise, surprise).

When the Spaniards arrived, they brought massacre and enslavement. Christianity was an afterthought. (Literally: the priests only came after the original conquistadors had been there a few decades.)

Your post implies that the Maya (and their descendants) are somehow more violent than other people, but that’s not supported by any evidence. In fact, there’s no evidence that any civilization has been more peaceful or more bellicose than any other.


29 posted on 02/10/2011 10:12:50 AM PST by vkladchik
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To: vkladchik

Your right, the priests would have come after the conquistadors paved the way. The priests made the Mayans burn their historic books and offered Christianity as an alternative. I did not say anywhere in the text that the Mayans were more violent than any other people group. Only that the template of Christianity offered a more civil way of life. Not to say that violence has not occurred in the name of Christianity. Usually where Christianity is allowed to thrive, a more peaceful society results.


30 posted on 02/10/2011 11:01:11 AM PST by geraldmcg
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To: vkladchik
In fact, there’s no evidence that any civilization has been more peaceful or more bellicose than any other.

You gotta be on drugs.

31 posted on 02/13/2011 9:42:42 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass
Yeah, that's fine, but why is he using "88"?

Actually he is using "888" ("Three Eights") which is considered extremely lucky number in Asian, and particularly in Chinese, cultures. Number "8" in itself is considered the symbol of luck / fortune / wealth / prosperity.

During the Internet boom of late 1990s there was a mad rush among many Asian/Chinese websites to register URLs that had 888 in their names (e.g., www.888webtoday.com was registered in December 1999 by Gerald B. McGlothlin).

See following links for more on symbolism of "8" and "888" in Asian and Chinese cultures, or just do a search for "888" "luck" "Asia":

What Is the Meaning of Three Eights in Asian Culture? | Symbolism of 888 - eHow

Numbers in Chinese culture - Wikipedia

32 posted on 04/18/2011 11:58:34 AM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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