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Is Wisconsin the beginning of a progressive revolution?
examiner.com ^ | 2/17/2011 | Joe Newby

Posted on 02/17/2011 11:44:54 AM PST by FredJake

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To: Newton
I think they also have NO IDEA the kinds of financial setbacks people have endured for the past several years and continue to endure, in the private sector. Many are unemployed or have had their hours and/or pay reduced, benefit costs have increased substantially, the value of their retirement accounts is barely inching back toward what it was several years ago, the employer is not putting toward the retirement plan now, or at a lesser match percentage. We have no cost of living increases, increases just for time in service, nothing like “tenure” or job security. If we are lucky enough to work full time, it is 52 weeks of the year, not 38 weeks per year. If we are lucky enough to have employer-subsidized health insurance, we are likely to pay 50-75% of the premium on our own, not to mention growing deductibles, co-pays, utilization restrictions. We simply cannot “sacrifice more” in higher taxes or larger deficits to appease some unrealistic parasites.
51 posted on 02/17/2011 12:46:31 PM PST by NEMDF
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To: bassmaner; FredJake
The unions are ANTI-democracy protestors.
52 posted on 02/17/2011 12:54:15 PM PST by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: NEMDF

All excellent points. If I may add one other, compamies that have cut back expect remaining employees to pick up the work that was done by those they let go. For most prfessional staff, the work week went from 40-45 hours to 55-60 hours and the constant anxiety that if you objected, you might be next out the door. A mariginally profitable company facing tax and regulatory cost increases doesn’t have much choice, but the long hours and anxiety need to be counted as another hit the private sector is taking for the puffed up public sector.


53 posted on 02/17/2011 12:58:38 PM PST by trubolotta
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To: muawiyah
Then why don't you bring in statistics about teachers, not just their bosses.

Um, the bosses, namely the DISTRICT ADMINISTRATORS, are PART of the Union!!!

Wisconsin Association of School District Administrators

IMAGE THAT APPEARS ON THEIR WEBSITE AT THE BOTTOM:


54 posted on 02/17/2011 1:00:36 PM PST by Eagle of Liberty (formally known as Kerretarded....I changed my name)
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To: muawiyah
Then why don't you bring in statistics about teachers, not just their bosses.

Furthermore, the following names are not only on the list that appears in post #3, but they also appear on the WASDA Board of Directors:

Gregg Lundberg
Michael Weber
Gale Ryczek
Wayne Anderson
Kieth Kriewaldt
Clark Reinke
Kristine Gilmore
Cheryl Gullicksrud
Michael Cox
Matthew Gibson
55 posted on 02/17/2011 1:07:22 PM PST by Eagle of Liberty (formally known as Kerretarded....I changed my name)
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To: NEMDF

This is not the beginning of a progressive (sic Marxist) revolution. It is the end of a revolution that has slaughtered tens of millions and brought our nation to the brink of disaster. For 100 years we have been victimized by communist terrorism in the form of government tyranny. Now it is ending. Praise God.


56 posted on 02/17/2011 1:08:37 PM PST by Louis Foxwell (For love of Sarah, our country and the American Way of Life.)
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To: NEMDF

Post of the day. Problem with public sector employment is that it never adjusts. Time to ban all public sector unions and all employees take an across the board 20% pay cut.


57 posted on 02/17/2011 1:09:24 PM PST by lone star annie
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To: muawiyah

The NEA is a union. Sorry.


58 posted on 02/17/2011 1:09:47 PM PST by Minus_The_Bear
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To: Eagle of Liberty
Article found right on WASDA website:

February 17, 2011 Update 2

Dear SAA Members:

It looks like we now have confirmation that Senate Democrats have left the state to avoid a Senate floor vote on the Governors Budget Adjustment Bill.

Without at least one Democrat, the Senate does not have a quorum. The latest from WisPolitics appears below. We will keep the membership apprised of new breaking developments in this story.

Erpenbach: 'We were left with no choice'

Sen. Jon Erpenbach told WisPolitics this afternoon Senate Dems left the state in an attempt to force Republicans to negotiate a compromise to proposed changes to the bargaining rights of public employees.

Erpenbach would not disclose where he was or how many of the Dem senators were with him. But he said he believed all 14 were already out of state by early this afternoon.

"We were left with no choice," Erpenbach said.

Asked how long they were prepared to remain outside Wisconsin, the Middleton Dem demurred.

"The question is when are the Republicans going to sit down seriously with the other side on this issue and try to work something out," Erpenbach said. "When are we going to be reasonable about this and slow things down?"

"We have time."

Erpenbach said Republicans should look at how the proposed changes are tearing the state apart and realize a different path is needed.

"This isn't anything that we do lightly at all. This isn't a prank. This isn't a joke. This is Democrats standing together saying slow down."

John D. Forester
Director of Government Relations
School Administrators Alliance (SAA)
4797 Hayes Road
Madison, WI 53704
608-242-1370
608-242-1290 (fax)
www.wsaa.org

59 posted on 02/17/2011 1:14:06 PM PST by Eagle of Liberty (formally known as Kerretarded....I changed my name)
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To: muawiyah

Why do you move from thread to thread defending Public workers?


60 posted on 02/17/2011 1:22:06 PM PST by EvasiveManuever (Shakespeare got it wrong. Not the lawyers... journalists.)
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To: lone star annie

Ever since public employees were allowed to unionize and collective bargain, state governments have been little more than a criminal conspiracy to defraud the taxpayers.

State legislators shovel taxpayers money to bureaucrats in the form of salaries and fat pensions. The public employee unions then shovel their union dues (involuntarily taken from those taxpayer-funded salaries) into the politican’s campaign coffers. And the cycle begins again.

I hope this IS the start of a revolution of citizens taking their state governments back from this kind of racket!


61 posted on 02/17/2011 1:23:02 PM PST by feralcat
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To: FredJake

I call for civility!!!


62 posted on 02/17/2011 1:59:19 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: FredJake

Albert Shanker: “When school children start paying union dues, that ‘s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children.”

Albert Shanker (September 14, 1928 – February 22, 1997) was President of the United Federation of Teachers from 1964 to 1984 as well as President of the American Federation of Teachers from 1974 to 1997.

if Walker is Mubarek, the unions are the Muslim Brotherhood.


63 posted on 02/17/2011 2:02:55 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: muawiyah

The average Wisconsin teacher salary in 2009-2010 was $52644 …
http://www.teacher-world.com/statespages/Wisconsin.html

For Teacher Data go to the following link. About halfway down the page is a compilation of average salaries and fringe benefits for teachers in Wisc. The actual data is on page 2 of the report.
The fringe benefits are way above what is provided to employees in the private sector and it is my understanding that only the fringe benefits are the part that the governor wants to reduce by about 7%.
http://dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.html


64 posted on 02/17/2011 2:04:56 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB ( "I don't want the majority if we don't stand for something"- Jim Demint)
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To: EvasiveManuever
Who's defending public workers?

Any posts I make regarding federal employees usually involves some general misunderstanding another poster has about the characteristics of the federal employee retirement system.

When it comes to issues involving labor and management I am your typical Freeper who thinks you should use "labor" statistics on labor and "management" statistics on management, not the other way around.

If you disagree and think we should target and beat up on "labor" because a county school superintendant makes $300,000+ per year, go ahead, but don't expect to get any sympathy for your arguments once your misuse of data is known.

Since we were discussing school teachers this afternoon let me assure you that the CORRECT and ONLY Conservative position on the matter is that the age of the public school has come and gone.

It's time to move on and use our edge in high technology to create home-schooling, and supplemental schooling that gives our kids the best opportunity possible in this world.

Instead of being all retromangent about school teacher salaries, you should be pushing for the adoption of totally new educational methodologies on the widest possible scale.

65 posted on 02/17/2011 2:09:30 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: WOBBLY BOB
Al Shanker had a reputation for supporting Republican candidates.

I'm sure he yakked enough over the years to have said something about everything, and from both sides of the issue.

Al Shaker soundbytes don't cut it ~ gotta' see the entire speech.

66 posted on 02/17/2011 2:11:34 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I did. Go discuss.


67 posted on 02/17/2011 2:16:45 PM PST by chichipow
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To: who knows what evil?
Different thread. We were speaking of this thread, and the data presented here.

It's not up to me to make sure you get the right stuff to support the right thought.

68 posted on 02/17/2011 2:25:36 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: FredJake

BRING IT! JUST DO IT! I DARE YOU!


69 posted on 02/17/2011 2:29:27 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: WOBBLY BOB

Just be careful when using the “average”. The union pay schedule is tremendously skewed against newer teachers. These n00bs are churned routinely to maintain the image of modest pay. They get crap for raises in the first six to seven years, if they last. Once you have “paid your dues” with about 8 to 9 years, the pay table increases rise dramtically. It is unlike anything I have ever seen in the private sector. So a n00b at $26,000 and senior at $86,000 average to the mythical $56,000. I saw this first hand as a school board member during contract negotiations.

There are a few other tricks the unions use to cry poverty and trick the public, but no time for an expalnation atm.


70 posted on 02/17/2011 2:35:01 PM PST by trubolotta
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To: muawiyah
I wasn't speaking about any data right from square one...I was calling the NEA a 'crime syndicate' LONG before this thread ever came along.

Have fun with your data. Toodles.

71 posted on 02/17/2011 2:43:35 PM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: FredJake

Parents need to put the teachers on notice.

The private sector in Wisconsin (and elsewhere) should DENY doing business with union thugs.

Don’t sell them gas, groceries, etc. Tell them to pound sand.


72 posted on 02/17/2011 2:49:32 PM PST by Fledermaus (If the GOP now cannot defund NPR, etc. then VOTE THEM OUT and start over.)
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To: who knows what evil?
It's time to move on from the public school conundrum into something more meaningful called education.

Like I said, they are a concept whose time has come and gone.

Getting all balled up in disputes with commie teachers is a waste of time. Better to put them out of business entirely!

73 posted on 02/17/2011 2:51:09 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Okay, how about this since you have a bug in your butt about “labor”: TO HELL WITH ALL PUBLIC SERVICE UNIONS.

Clear it up for ya?


74 posted on 02/17/2011 2:56:08 PM PST by Fledermaus (If the GOP now cannot defund NPR, etc. then VOTE THEM OUT and start over.)
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To: muawiyah

That post I agree with in its entirety.


75 posted on 02/17/2011 2:57:29 PM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Fledermaus
You really don't know much about working for the government. When you have an organization that has no profit or loss standard to deal with you end up with a sclerotic supervisory structure made up of retromangent butt kissers.

That does not serve the public interest.

Sometimes you need a bottom up insurrection ~ on an ongoing basis ~ which is what you'll find most public service unions doing ~ to a degree.

Where you find the worst abuses are where the managers share the retirement system with the employees. Obviously they are going to turn the retirement system funds into a personal stash as they give away the show to the unions.

Back in the 1930s and 1940s postal unions served as Roosevelt's attack dogs to literally drive Communist party sponsored union organizers out of the country. In return for their efforts (lots of night time street fighting, etc.) Roosevelt promised them an Executive Order that would recognize their right to organize (which meant they could hold meetings in postal facilities rather than at otherwise insecure and dangerous Communist dominated union halls).

Knowing the history of federal labor unions fairly well I always assume first that any attack on them is coming from the Far Left!

You have to convince me with argument that you're not a Commie Batarde ~ then we can talk.

76 posted on 02/17/2011 3:06:43 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: trubolotta
One of the reasons it's time to face down the more militant school teacher unions is that we've gone THREE FULL YEARS with essentially no new hires out of the existing body of college graduates with teaching credentials.

The noobies can be hired cheap, with immense savings for the senior teachers who get canned for demonstrating instead of reporting to work.

This can be a WIN WIN WIN (for the long term unemployed/underemployed recent graduates, the taxpayers, and the kiddies).

77 posted on 02/17/2011 3:10:06 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: FredJake
One sign shows a target over the face of Governor Walker. Remember the angst shown by liberals when Sarah Palin's PAC used clip art of targets on certain congressional districts?

Who wants to bet the New York Times 'misses' that picture? I'll go a hundred to one...

78 posted on 02/17/2011 3:17:16 PM PST by GOPJ (http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php - It's only uncivil when someone on the right does it.- Laz)
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To: muawiyah
Since we were discussing school teachers this afternoon let me assure you that the CORRECT and ONLY Conservative position on the matter is that the age of the public school has come and gone.

Accepted. I stand corrected.

79 posted on 02/17/2011 4:25:14 PM PST by EvasiveManuever (Shakespeare got it wrong. Not the lawyers... journalists.)
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To: EvasiveManuever
See, it pays to read carefully and NEVER assume I've ever said anything smacking of Leftwingtardism.

Always read thoroughly too ~ take a sound byte out of my stuff and I BYTE BACK!

Again, when it comes to public schools we are beating a dead horse. Technology is going to leave them behind sooner rather than later.

The teachers unions should be going for "buy outs now", not "benefits later'. Technological development is passing "later" by!

Check John Chambers, Cisco Systems Chairman ~ as far left as he seems to be he recognized what's going on ~ as did current Senator Warner of Virginia, another Lefty ~ and you'll find them over there looking to turn a substantial chunk of America's college landscape into something that looks like Momma's basement. Chambers has been a key player in the development of Indiana University's remote learning system, and Warner has joined with others in the Eastern states to put their money behind something similar for secondary education.

Even the Washington Post has become primarily an Educational Vendor called Kaplan.

When the new technology busts loose, it'll be everywhere and the public schools will collapse.

That doesn't mean folks won't need teachers ~ sure they will ~ but the teachers will go to the students, rather than the students to the teachers ~ and the primary mission for the teacher will be to instruct the students on how to use the system.

80 posted on 02/17/2011 4:41:34 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: kevao
These protesters want Walker and Wisconsin to fail. How unpatriotic....

LOL! And then Walker needs to do a simple one-line press conference.

"To the media and the unions, I WON!"
81 posted on 02/18/2011 6:03:57 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (formally known as Kerretarded....I changed my name)
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To: muawiyah

There’s a side scam going on with Kaplan.

Oversupply in exchange for federal grant money.


82 posted on 02/19/2011 6:30:40 PM PST by EvasiveManuever (Shakespeare got it wrong. Not the lawyers... journalists.)
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