Jeffrey Toobin Issued False Legal Statements to A. Cooper Regarding Vattel and the 14th Amendment.

naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com ^ | 02/17/2011 | Leo Donofrio, Esq.

[MileHi]

You made that argument far better than I could. There is no other conclusion to that line of thought.

FReegards

[jdoug666]

Thank you Mr. Donofrio! I sat through that phony ‘legal analysis’ with my jaw dropped. When Toobin cited examples of presidents Wilson and Hoover having foreign-born mothers, thus rendering their sons ‘natural born’ notwithstanding the women’s nativity, was a straw man of the worst kind. Both women had been naturalized U.S. citizens at the time of their sons’ births, period. What particularly galls me is Toobin’s smug attitude with a smirk that seems perpetually plastered on his face. Way to go, Harvard Law School. Toobin is one of your finest alumni! (Perhaps he too was graduated ‘magna cum laude’ like our First Usurper!)

[Las Vegas Ron]

Here's hoping he takes a hike before 2012!

(I can dream can't I?)

[Mr Rogers]

“So do you advocate that “anchor babies” are natural born as it pertains to the Presidency?”

No. Their mothers are here illegally, and thus not “in amity” with out government. They are more like an invading army...

[Spaulding]

That is 10 years after the Constitution was ratified.

And who made Vattel a secular saint, the divine arbiter of Natural Law, never to be altered amended or abridged?

Allmendream, some of the contributors to rxsid's research thread on FR are much more knowledgable about the dozens of English translations of Vattel, the first of which appears to have been in 1760.

Rxsid has so clearly informed so many about pre-constitution acceptance of the term "natural born citizen," but his research is so thorough, but not so easy to find, that I'll take the liberty of explaining how to find it. Free Republic is an amazing resource, but not the easiest to navigate: Here is a direct link to rxsid's profile http://www.freerepublic.com/~rxsid/ About halfway down his remarkable compilation is a page from the 1781 Continental Congress in which the term natural born citizen is used. QED.

Of more import is the obvious fact that well over a dozen justices have established the common-law understanding by using the John Jay terminology, natural born citizen. At least three terms were in common use, "native," "birthright," "natural born," and all mean the same thing. Since our Constitution depends upon our common law for most of its definitions, as Madison, Kent, and Story, have all explained, we best cite the clarity of Chief Justice Morrison Waite's explanation, the definition cited by Horace Gray in Wong Kim Ark and Charles Hughes in Perkins v. Elg:

"The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

As to Vattel as a "secular saint" the history is remarkable. Jefferson made Vattel the first required text and the core curriculum at our first law school, carved out of William and Mary's Divinity School by Jefferson in 1779. Franklin told Vattel's publisher that Vattel was being read by most in the Continental Congress.

If you read Vattel, knowing that few are inclined to take the time, you will find the structure of our republic. It is uncanny to read a philosopher in 1758 explain the structure of a representative republic, how to structure a legislature, the rules governing a supreme court, when a "sovereign" should and shouldn't be removed for malfeasance, the significance of judicial review. To understand how the Constitution could be so coherant a document, having been compiled in a little more than a year, read Vattel.

Our framers were inspired by Vattel, beginning with the 1758 edition, which was in Jefferson's library. Franklin had English translations which he passed to colleagues in 1762, though he was fluent in French. Read Hamilton's letter to Washington in Sept 1790 in which Hamilton reiterates the understanding they both have,

"But Vatel, perhaps the most accurate and approved of the writers on the laws of nations, preserves a mean between these different opinions."

Vattel was by far the most cited legal reference in U.S. Jurisprudence between 1789 and 1821, (Grotian Society Papers 1972). A little reading suggests that Vattel is actually pretty close to being a "secular saint." Your use of the term "secular" is curiously insightful, because of Vattel's care in steering a course independent of religious doctrine at time of much struggle among religious/political factions.

For a remarkably clear discourse on the different classes of citizenship understood by our founders and framers, written by founder and probably the most prolific historian of pre-revolutionary history, Dr. David Ramsay wrote his Dissertaion of the ...Character and Privileges of a....Citizen. Jefferson's Rebels blogger re-typed the photo image of the 1779 document. Ramsay uses the term "birthright citizen," which is the same as "natural born" and "native" and "indigenous," all terms used interchangeably at the time.

Here is a sample (because our goal is that citizens understand the truth; unlike writing a textbook, where the industrious will read references, the objective here should be to make the knowledge public):

None can claim citizenship as a birth-right, but such as have been born since the declaration of independence, for this obvious reason: no man can be born a citizen of a state or government, which did not exist at the time of his birth. Citizenship is the inheritance of the children of those who have taken a part in the late revolution: but this is confined exclusively to the children of those who were themselves citizens. Those who died before the revolution, could leave no political character to their children, but that of subjects, which they themselves possessed. If they had lived, no one could be certain whether they would have adhered to the king or to congress. Their children, therefore, may claim by inheritance the rights of British subjects, but not of American citizens.

[jdoug666]

SOURCE: http://www.rochesterconservative.com/blog/the-natural-born-presidency

The following factoids refute Toobin’s assertions regarding presidents Wilson and Hoover having foreign-born mothers:

NBC Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) Born: December 28, 1856 in Staunton, Virginia. Father- Reverend Dr. Joseph Ruggles Wilson was born in Steubenville, Ohio in 1822. Mother- Jessie Janet Woodrow was born in born in Carlisle, England in 1826. Parents married prior to 1851, mother automatically gained citizenship upon marriage in accordance with naturalization statutes of the period.

NBC Herbert Hoover (1929-1933) Born: August 10, 1874 in West Branch, Iowa. Father- Jesse Hoover was born on September 2, 1846 in Tuscarawas, Ohio. Mother- Hulda Randall Minthorn was born on May 4, 1848 in Norwich, Ontario, Canada. Parents married in 1870 and mother automatically gained citizenship in accordance with the naturalization statutes of the period.

[bushpilot1]

The Founders translated naturels to natural born. The documents from the 1787 Congressional record have been posted on FR since May 2010.

[bgill]

False statements issued on CNN

'Nuff said.

[Plummz]

Please post a photo of Section 212 from your 1792 edition of Droit des Gens. Please post a photo of the title page with publication information as well.

Thanks in advance.

[Eagle76]

It doesn't matter whether you accept it or not it's not up to your will but it was up to Obama's fathers will! The condition that you are not understanding is that the founders always gave deference to the individual (parent) that being the father and to whom he chose to ally himself with was the final arbitrating factor for the child's birth condition to fall under! The Founders always made the individual sovereign over their own wills this is why even prior to England relinquished the Colonists from their "Subject condition" in the Treaty of Paris, they were considered by the United States as owing no foreign allegiance because they chose by their sovereign wills to adhere solely to the States thus relinquishing themselves from their former sovereigns and as far as the Founders were concerned England was not considered and the relinquishing of the colonist's former "subject" condition in the Treaty of Paris was simply a formality! This is how it has always been since the Declaration of Independence the sovereign individual needs no approval from the state to choose their own allegiance! Our naturalization laws reflected such in that even if a former sovereign were not to release their hold on a person swearing the oath of allegiance to the U.S. and their renouncing of all other former sovereigns, the U.S. only respects that will of the sovereign individual and not the will of the former state! Thus if one owes allegiance to a foreign state it is their choice just like it was Obama's father's choice not to adhere to the U.S. and we would never make him do such and it was Obama Sr's choice which conditioned Obama Jr. at his birth no matter where he was born!

[arrogantsob]

Thank You for those instructive quotes. It is remarkable how the Democrat media refuses to admit this discussion ever occurred.

HEY, you idiots, this has been gone over before. LoL

[arrogantsob]

Those were people who were here with the sanction of the US immigration laws not those who sneak in illegally.

[arrogantsob]

A minor cannot give up his citizenship nor can his parent act in his stead to do so.

[arrogantsob]

Hamilton was very familiar with Vattel, spoke fluent French and was the greatest lawyer of his day. Though he was not a natural born citizen he was still eligible to be president.

[arrogantsob]

Hamilton’s mother was French and it was his first language so he was fluent so much so that when there were conferences during the War with the French officers Hamilton was the translator for Washington. He was his Chief Aide for almost three years.

[arrogantsob]

Actually children born to US Citizens at service anywhere to service of the US are natural born citizens. Military families, or diplomatic corps which have children born while at that service are still natural born. This was actually raised against McCain by the Left because he was born in Panama while his dad was stationed there.

[arrogantsob]

Isn’t that Clymer? Wouldn’t want it in wrong place.