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Watering Down Our Heritage
www.stolinsky.com ^ | 02-28-11 | stolinsky

Posted on 02/27/2011 9:14:37 PM PST by stolinsky

Back in the Jurassic Era when I was young, we learned “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” in school, and I often heard it on the radio on national holidays. We learned two verses, the first and the fifth. The words of the fifth verse made a deep impression on me:

As he died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.

It implanted in my youthful mind the idea that fighting for freedom sometimes requires actually FIGHTING for freedom, which includes the possibility of dying for freedom. But now, I rarely hear this inspiring hymn on national holidays. And on the rare occasions I do hear it, the words are a bit different:

As he died to make men holy, let us LIVE to make men free. (Emphasis added.)

If this were an isolated incident, the alteration of one word would be trivial. But this is hardly an isolated incident. The de-Americanization of America has been going on since the 1960s − in schools, in universities, in films.

(Excerpt) Read more at stolinsky.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Government; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: battlehymn; civilwar; confederacy; culturewars; dixie; hateful; hatefulsong; heritage; history; kkkonfederacy; leftism; songofhate

1 posted on 02/27/2011 9:14:41 PM PST by stolinsky
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To: stolinsky

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He has trampled out the vintage where the Grapes of Wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fearful lightning of his terrible swift sword.

His truth is marching on.

Glory, glory Hallelujah
Glory, glory Hallelujah
Glory, glory Hallelujah
His truth is marching on.

I have seen him in the watchfires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded him an altar in the evening dews and damps
I can read his righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps

His truth is marching on

Glory, glory Hallelujah
Glory, glory Hallelujah
Glory, glory Hallelujah
His truth is marching on.

In the Shadow of the lilies, Christ was born across of the sea
With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me.
As he died to make men holy let us die to make free.

Our God is marching on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irZmknvOB4I


2 posted on 02/27/2011 9:34:57 PM PST by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: BenKenobi

One of the better versions that I’ve ever heard, second best.

The first was on my first visit to Texas and the congregation actually stood and sang it! I was totally gobsmacked. Amazing, amazing song, but it’s hard to find with all 5 verses...


3 posted on 02/27/2011 9:36:38 PM PST by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: stolinsky
stolinsky said:

The de-Americanization of America has been going on since the 1960s − in schools, in universities, in films.

It has been going on since the United States became the United States in 1776.

All of this comes in historical waves. As a wave goes up, it too must come down.
4 posted on 02/27/2011 9:38:54 PM PST by devattel
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To: stolinsky

I remember those days, when we were taught songs like The Battle Hymn and God Bless America. God forbid schools today teach anything with a whiff of religion. They’d rather give out condoms than teach something that would build moral character.


5 posted on 02/27/2011 9:51:41 PM PST by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender! REMEMBER NEDA)
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To: stolinsky

Here in the South we don’t get to hear Dixie in public much anymore either.


6 posted on 02/27/2011 9:53:06 PM PST by clashfan (know your rights)
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To: stolinsky

“No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.”
- Gen. George S. Patton


7 posted on 02/27/2011 10:05:36 PM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: stolinsky
Speaking of watering down our history, what a great example. If one would take the time to actually research this song and its author, you'd probably not think so much of either. Howe was a Unitarian, not a Christian. She despised Southerners and the entire song is about the slaughter of Southerners and the perfect world she envisioned after everything was destroyed to her liking. She no doubt wove together a beautiful song to tell her very dark story.

Think of the cheerful song of "ring around the rosie" and the black death, then you'll get it.

8 posted on 02/27/2011 10:14:13 PM PST by PistolPaknMama
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To: VictoryGal

I remember in 4th and 5th grade music class, in a public school, we learned “The Marines Hymn”, “The Army Goes Rolling Along”, and “Anchors Aweigh”. I wonder if it’s still permitted to teach such songs to public school students.


9 posted on 02/27/2011 10:20:24 PM PST by Dilbert San Diego
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To: stolinsky
As he died to make men holy, let us LIVE to make men free. (Emphasis added.)

I believe this revision is not recent, although I don't find a date for it by casual search. My impression is that it was circa 1900, although I can't substantiate this.

10 posted on 02/27/2011 11:21:14 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: PistolPaknMama; stolinsky

Most people hear it as ‘patriotic’ background music. But it’s actually a gnostic hymn celebrating the nation as a vengeful god of slaughter. Almost Islamic in spirit.

You’re right about Howe’s blood-lust Unitarianism. Like Thaddeus Stevens, Howe had a genocidal mania against the South that made Lincoln seem like a veritable Mahatma Gandhi by comparison.

I found dark comedy in Dubya playing the tune for the Pope when he visited in 2008.


11 posted on 02/27/2011 11:40:56 PM PST by Pelham (Off With Your Head- a Religion of Peace thought for the day)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
My 6 yr old grandson has been taught the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem, but his favorite song he has learned in school is You're a Grand Old Flag.
12 posted on 02/27/2011 11:58:16 PM PST by Krodg
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To: Krodg

Growing up in GA, we did not sing the BHR all that much, being aware of the history and context. Actually we didn’t sing “Marching through Georgia” that much either. I know, I know, that was then and this is now. It’s a Southern Thing, you wouldn’t understand.
Speaking of Songs, The SS banner, verse 3, says:
Yhen conquer we must,
For our cause it is just,
And this be our motto,
IN GOD IS OUR TRUST. ( not epluribus unim, as some one born in Kenya and raised in Indenesia might try to tell you> But what did you expect?


13 posted on 02/28/2011 2:40:04 AM PST by barb-tex
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To: PistolPaknMama
PistolPaknMama: "Howe was a Unitarian, not a Christian."

In those days, Unitarians were still considered Christians, and thought themselves Christians.

PistolPaknMama: "She despised Southerners and the entire song is about the slaughter of Southerners and the perfect world she envisioned after everything was destroyed to her liking."

Without doubt, Howe despised slavery and those who defended it.

But it was a war, for Christ's sake!
Hundreds of thousands of young men were dying.
Howe's song was inspirational for troops going into battle, and totally, totally Christian.
Consider the fifth & sixth verses:

"In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

"He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
Our God is marching on."

PistolPaknMama: "She no doubt wove together a beautiful song to tell her very dark story."

She wrote a beautiful song to inspire troops facing death, period, end of story.

14 posted on 02/28/2011 5:54:37 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: Pelham
Pelham: "it’s actually a gnostic hymn celebrating the nation as a vengeful god of slaughter.
Almost Islamic in spirit."

It is a battle hymn written to inspire troops marching into death, for Christ's sake.

Your words "gnostic" and "Islamic" are total b*ll cr*p.
The song is 100% Christian -- check out verses five & six posted above.

15 posted on 02/28/2011 5:59:33 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: barb-tex

A small but important correction: The fourth verse goes—
“Then conquer we must, WHEN our cause it is just.”
(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner)
That is, we can expect to prevail only if our cause is just. The burden is on us to be sure it is, not on God to support us regardless.

Maybe you’re right that I can’t quite understand a Southern thing. After all, I was born in No. Dak. But I’ve always been a bit of a rebel myself. I can understand that you don’t favor “Marching Through Georgia.” Still, if I can enjoy “Bonnie Blue Flag,” you can tolerate the “Battle Hymn”—if they get the words right.


16 posted on 02/28/2011 2:20:54 PM PST by stolinsky
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To: BroJoeK

Thanks for sharing one of the more dimwitted posts of the day.


17 posted on 02/28/2011 6:11:22 PM PST by Pelham (Off With Your Head- a Religion of Peace thought for the day)
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To: BroJoeK

“In those days, Unitarians were still considered Christians, and thought themselves Christians.”

Unitarians deny the Trinity. If anything Americans of the 1860s took theology far more seriously than dimwits of the 21st century, who write nonsense like the above sentence.


18 posted on 02/28/2011 6:25:07 PM PST by Pelham (Off With Your Head- a Religion of Peace thought for the day)
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To: PistolPaknMama; BroJoeK

http://herescope.blogspot.com/2010/11/battle-hymn-of-republic.html

“What motivated the writing of the song?”

“As pointed out above, Dr. and Mrs. Howe were fiercely opposed to slavery and even funded militant abolitionists before the Civil War. They were therefore very much in support of the war, and even though Dr. Howe was too old to enlist he did what he could to support the war effort by serving on the Sanitary Commission.

Mrs. Howe lamented the fact that she could not make a greater contribution towards the war effort. In her own words:

“I distinctly remember that a feeling of discouragement came over me as I drew near the city of Washington at the time already mentioned. I thought of the women of my acquaintance whose sons or husbands were fighting our great battle; the women themselves serving in the hospitals, or busying themselves with the work of the Sanitary Commission. My husband, as already said, was beyond the age of military service, my eldest son but a stripling; my youngest was a child of not more than two years. I could not leave my nursery to follow the march of our armies, neither had I the practical deftness which the preparing and packing of sanitary stores demanded. Some thing seemed to say to me, ‘You would be glad to serve, but you cannot help any one; you have nothing to give, and there is nothing for you to do.’ Yet, because of my sincere desire, a word was given me to say, which did strengthen the hearts of those who fought in the field and of those who languished in the prison.” [v]

(The “word” given her “to say” refers to the Battle Hymn).

Mrs. Howe’s religion

We have already met Howe’s pastor at the time of writing the song. He was Mr. Clarke. Not only was he the Howe’s pastor “for many years,” but he and his wife were close friends of the Howe’s and often accompanied Mrs. Howe on her visits to the troops.

According to Howe’s daughter, another house friend was Theodore Parker, preacher and reformer. He, too, was more than a friend. Mrs Howe was a member of his church for “some time.”[vi]

During Mrs. Howe’s visits to Washington, she would attend the church of the Rev. William Henry Channing whom she greatly admired.[vii]

Who then were Clarke, Parker and Channing, what denomination did they belong to, and what did these men and Mrs Howe believe? Clarke, Parker and Channing were all Unitarian pastors, and were also all members of the Transcendental Club.[viii] In addition, they were all disciples of Ralph Waldo Emerson.[ix] (Channing was also the chaplain to the United States House of Representatives during 1863 and 1864). Not only were they all Unitarians, but they were on the extreme left of already liberal Unitarianism. It is very clear from Mrs. Howe’s writings, as well as of those close to her, that she had no difference of opinion with these men, and that she admired and followed them, and that her own belief system was shaped by theirs. Since they all shared a common theology which has been well documented, we shall examine them as a group in order to determine Mrs Howe’s religion.

What Howe believed

The following brief summary is a composition of some of the distinctives of 19th Century Unitarianism. Note that the majority of the citations are from a book written by Howe’s close friend, pastor and associate – James Freeman Clarke.
Jesus Christ is not God, but just a very good man.[xi]
They did not believe that Jesus was born of a virgin.[xii]
Since miracles cannot be explained by reason, they are rejected.[xiii]
For the same reason, they did not accept that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.[xiv]
Christ did not make atonement for our sins on the cross. Salvation is by “character.”[xv] Basically, all are saved, but need to be “improved” through the process of life.
They do not believe that Jesus Christ will physically return the second time.[xvi]
The Bible is not the infallible, inspired Word of God but is equal to the “Vedas of India, or the Koran, or the Dialogues of Plato, or Wordsworth’s Ode to Immortality.”[xvii]

It becomes exceedingly clear, then, that Mrs. Howe was by no means a Christian in the evangelical or orthodox sense. Her rejection of ALL the essentials of Christian doctrine make her no different than a Hindu, Moslem, or some other religious pagan. She was religious and knew a lot of verses from the Bible, but she was NOT a Christian in any orthodox sense. Not only were Mrs. Howe and her friends not Christians, they were anti-Christ by their rejection of all that Jesus Christ is and did.

This is cardinal to our understanding of the song. It’s “inspiration” therefore cannot be ascribed to the Holy Spirit, nor can its theology be given any credence. We could stop right here and assert that the song should be rejected outright as a worldly song simply on the basis that the author was not a Christian. I am not passing judgment as to whether Christians should sing this song outside of the church – just as they sing the National Anthem or other patriotic songs. That is a matter of personal conscience. But that this song should be banished from Christian worship is patently obvious. Simply because this song has “hymn” in its title does not make it a Christian hymn. This conclusion is reinforced when examining the words of the song.

The Apostle Paul says: “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). Julia Ward Howe believed and preached another gospel, yet we allow her to continue to preach in our churches through this song. Instead of agreeing with Paul that she is accursed, we call her blessed! May the Lord have mercy on us for such disobedience and flagrant honoring a heretic and anti-Christ.


19 posted on 02/28/2011 6:47:28 PM PST by Pelham (Off With Your Head- a Religion of Peace thought for the day)
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To: BroJoeK; PistolPaknMama

http://herescope.blogspot.com/2010/11/battle-hymn-of-republic.html

The Lyrics

Verse 1
“Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.”

Howe described with pride how she saw the coming of the Lord in the Union Army in those bleak months of 1861: “When the war broke out, the passion of patriotism lent its color to the religion of humanity in my own mind… and a moment came when I could say: Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!”[xviii]

Howe’s view that the Civil War was the coming of the Lord accords with the view held by her pastor, Mr. Clarke, who did not believe that Jesus will return bodily as He ascended (Acts 1:11). Rather he believed that Jesus comes mystically and in many ways. Clarke said:

“Christ also comes in the great events of history, which contribute to the progress of the human race… When Jerusalem was compassed with armies, and terrible bloodshed and awful suffering fell on the nation… that was a coming of Christ. For out of the midst of those horrors, came a new and better day.”[xix]

Clarke then continued to explain his belief that the Civil War was also a “coming of the Christ” as it brought about the end of slavery.[xx]

In the same year that Howe wrote the Battle Hymn, Rev. William Weston Patton also wrote new words to the John Brown’s Body tune. In his version, Patton confirmed the prevailing view that the Union Army was “Christ.” He further made John Brown out to be John the Baptist!

“John Brown was John the Baptist of the Christ we are to see,
Christ who of the bondmen shall the Liberator be,
And soon thruout the Sunny South the slaves shall all be free,
For his soul is marching on.”[xxi]

This is nothing short of blasphemy – to suggest that the American Civil War, and the Northern Army in particular, is the coming of the Lord! These words should never have passed the lips of any Christian, let alone be sung in any assembly of God’s people.

The rest of the verse continues to misquote Revelation 19:15, which states: “Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” The Apostle John here is speaking about Jesus Christ who returns to vanquish His enemies and set up His Kingdom at the end of the age. Once again, it is pure blasphemy to equate a human army on earth with the “King of King and Lord of Lords” (Revelation 19:16).

The last line of the first verse is repeated at the end of the Chorus: “His truth is marching on.” God’s Truth is spread through one way, and one way only: the preaching and teaching of His Word. God’s truth does not march in rank and file. God’s Word is not forced upon others at the end of the sword. God’s truth does not kill brothers, cousins and uncles, as happened in the Civil War.

This song Battle Hymn does not promote God’s truth, but rather promotes murder, hate and violence. Constantine, the Crusaders, the Roman Church, and many others throughout church history all thought they could promote God’s truth by the shedding of blood. And many during the Civil War thought they could do the same. There is simply no sanction for this in the Bible.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek. When pushed to defend Himself He responded: “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here” (John 18:36). This teaching is the opposite of taking up arms against one’s physical and/or spiritual brother, even if the purported purpose is to oppose a grievous error like slavery.

Verse 2
“I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.”

Julia Ward Howe told how she noticed, on her first visit to Washington, D.C., at the outbreak of the war, groups of soldiers at their fires surrounding the Capital.[xxii] They had built a “steel girdle” around Washington because the Confederate (Southern) Army was close.

Once again she equated the Union Army with the Lord (“I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps”). Again, this is extreme blasphemy. God is not manifest in any army, let alone one fighting a civil war! If this were true then we would be going door-to-door forcing people to believe the Gospel at the end of a gun, and calling that “the Lord and His truth marching on.” This can never be!

Howe then changed the metaphor so that the fires of the soldiers become altars through which they worship God! These “altars” are certainly not built to worship the True God. They must therefore be in honor of another deity, a fact which makes this a violation of the first command – “you shall have no other gods before Me.”

The phrase “I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps” speaks of the judgment (sentence) God had supposedly passed on the South, and that He was about to execute that sentence. This also is blasphemous. Taking up arms against one’s brother can never be regarded as “righteous,” and to suggest that the North was “God” executing judgment against the South is nothing less than sacrilege. To suggest that political leaders have a religious authority to pass the death sentence on any part of the nation because they believe differently, even if what they believe is wrong, is the height of arrogance and wickedness.

Verse 3
This verse is not included in many hymn books, yet is part of the song and is vital to an understanding of the meaning of the song.

“I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
‘As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
Since God is marching on.’”

The “burnished rows of steel” refers to the sun reflecting off the gun barrels and the fixed bayonets of the army.[xxiii] The Gospel is never written in guns and bayonets and the implements of war. The Gospel of salvation is written in the hearts of those who have believed the message of Jesus Christ and been transformed by the power of that Gospel.

“Contemners” is an old English word which means those who treat one with contempt. This line says that to the degree that we kill those who despise God, God will extend grace to us! The Bible never links God’s grace to killing those who disagree with us. This bloody kind of hate-mongering is absolutely not part of the Christian message. In fact, the opposite is true. If we willfully disobey God’s Word by killing those with whom we have disagreements, there is not likely much grace for such willful sin. “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?” (Romans 6:1-2).

“Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel” is a misquoted reference to Genesis 3:15: “And I will put enmity between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”[xxiv] Once again, Howe turned the Union Army into “Christ” and the Confederate Army into “Satan.” This is an outright heresy and a total abuse of the Scriptures, which Howe used to support her own political agenda. At the time of the war, there were just as many true Christians in the South as in the North, yet the one reserved the moral high ground to call itself “Christ” and the other “Satan.” This is not remotely Christian. It is just plain worldly and a pagan way of thinking.

Verse 4
“He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.”

The trumpet probably refers to the references in Revelation to the trumpet. The army used bugles to either sound the “retreat” or the “charge,” and Howe seemed to use poetic license to make this connection. The Last Trumpet heralds the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.”[xxv] Once again, Howe replaced “Christ” with the Army.

Sifting out the hearts of men can only mean that they judge the motives of men’s hearts. Thus Howe once again deified the Army and, worse, gives to the military the divine task of judging men’s motives and condemning them to death if they don’t pass the test (sifting). How blasphemous! God alone is the judge and He has committed all judgment to His Son (John 5:22). Paul is very clear on our not judging men’s hearts: “Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts” (1Corinthians 4:5). But this does not present a problem to Howe since she believed that the Army is Christ!

Verse 5
“In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.”

“In the beauty of the lilies…” is sweet sentimentality that is void of any doctrinal support, but helps to make this bloody promotion of “truth” by killing your brother sound very nice. Jesus was not born in the beauty of the lilies; He was born in a stable and laid in a feed trough. But Howe had no problem twisting Scripture to suit her purpose.

The second line of this stanza is equally trite and void of Biblical support. Nowhere does the Bible speak of a “glory in His bosom,” and since she has clearly identified the Army as Christ, somehow she believes that the military will change us. War does indeed change people, but it is never in a good way.

The first part of the third line belies her own theology as she did not believe that Jesus’ death saves us or sanctifies us. But, as we have seen, she did not hesitate to use words without concern for their meaning, as long as they would have the desired effect. I can only assume that she felt that throwing this reference to Christ’s atoning sacrifice would fool Christians to believe that the song was Christian. She succeeded, and continues to succeed, in fooling the vast majority of non-discerning Christians. The presence of this line is vital to the deception. In the eyes of many, reference to Our Lord’s atoning work “sanctifies” the whole song.

The call for us to “die to make men free” is obviously a call to die in battle in order to liberate the slaves and pays respect to John Brown. While this sentiment may have value in the world, it has no support from Scripture. “We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”[xxvi]

Conclusion

The lyrics of the song are exactly what could be expected from a heretic and unbeliever. It promotes another gospel – the gospel of bloodshed, hatred and fratricide. Yet Christians, churches and their leaders promote this heresy in their churches.

“Oh, it is just a nice song and does not change our faith” I hear some say. That is exactly the deception. It does, and has, changed what many modern Christians (especially in America) believe. It is songs like this, and the theology behind it, that has resulted in a certain militancy amongst Christians. As a result many believe that they can, and must, promote their values by any means. “The end justifies the means and as long as we stand for truth, we can use any means to promote that truth.” No, the method is just as important as the truth. Illegitimate means to achieve a “good” end does not sanctify the means. It remains sin, and God will never bless anything that is sin or contrary to His Word!

My prayer is not only that this article will help towards the banishing of this song from true churches, but that it will also awaken Christians to carefully examine the theology of those national figures (of all nations) that we so easily worship and emulate.

“Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. “And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. “Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. “I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works” (Revelation 2:20-23)


20 posted on 02/28/2011 6:49:26 PM PST by Pelham (Off With Your Head- a Religion of Peace thought for the day)
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Secession Timeline
various sources

[Although very late in the war Lee wanted freedom offered to any of the slaves who would agree to fight for the Confederacy, practically no one was stupid enough to fall for that. In any case, Lee was definitely not fighting to end slavery, instead writing that black folks are better off in bondage than they were free in Africa, and regardless, slavery will be around until Providence decides, and who are we to second guess that? And the only reason the masters beat their slaves is because of the abolitionists.]

Robert E. Lee letter -- "...There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master..."
December 27, 1856

Platform of the Alabama Democracy -- the first Dixiecrats wanted to be able to expand slavery into the territories. It was precisely the issue of slavery that drove secession -- and talk about "sovereignty" pertained to restrictions on slavery's expansion into the territories. January 1860

Abraham Lincoln nominated by Republican Party May 18, 1860

Abraham Lincoln elected November 6, 1860

Robert Toombs, Speech to the Georgia Legislature -- "...In 1790 we had less than eight hundred thousand slaves. Under our mild and humane administration of the system they have increased above four millions. The country has expanded to meet this growing want, and Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Missouri, have received this increasing tide of African labor; before the end of this century, at precisely the same rate of increase, the Africans among us in a subordinate condition will amount to eleven millions of persons. What shall be done with them? We must expand or perish. We are constrained by an inexorable necessity to accept expansion or extermination. Those who tell you that the territorial question is an abstraction, that you can never colonize another territory without the African slavetrade, are both deaf and blind to the history of the last sixty years. All just reasoning, all past history, condemn the fallacy. The North understand it better - they have told us for twenty years that their object was to pen up slavery within its present limits - surround it with a border of free States, and like the scorpion surrounded with fire, they will make it sting itself to death." November 13, 1860

Alexander H. Stephens -- "...The first question that presents itself is, shall the people of Georgia secede from the Union in consequence of the election of Mr. Lincoln to the Presidency of the United States? My countrymen, I tell you frankly, candidly, and earnestly, that I do not think that they ought. In my judgment, the election of no man, constitutionally chosen to that high office, is sufficient cause to justify any State to separate from the Union. It ought to stand by and aid still in maintaining the Constitution of the country. To make a point of resistance to the Government, to withdraw from it because any man has been elected, would put us in the wrong. We are pledged to maintain the Constitution." November 14, 1860

South Carolina December 20, 1860

Mississippi January 9, 1861

Florida January 10, 1861

Alabama January 11, 1861

Georgia January 19, 1861

Louisiana January 26, 1861

Texas February 23, 1861

Abraham Lincoln sworn in as
President of the United States
March 4, 1861

Arizona territory March 16, 1861

CSA Vice President Alexander H. Stephens, Cornerstone speech -- "...last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact." March 21, 1861

Virginia adopted April 17,1861
ratified by voters May 23, 1861

Arkansas May 6, 1861

North Carolina May 20, 1861

Tennessee adopted May 6, 1861
ratified June 8, 1861

West Virginia declares for the Union June 19, 1861

Missouri October 31, 1861

"Convention of the People of Kentucky" November 20, 1861

http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/ordnces.html

[Alabama] "...Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of president and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama, preceded by many and dangerous infractions of the constitution of the United States by many of the States and people of the Northern section, is a political wrong of so insulting and manacing a character as to justify the people of the State of Alabama in the adoption of prompt and decided measures for their future peace and security... And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States, Be it resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, That the people of the States of Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky and Missouri, be and are hereby invited to meet the people of the State of Alabama, by their Delegates, in Convention, on the 4th day of February, A.D., 1861, at the city of Montgomery, in the State of Alabama, for the purpose of consulting with each other as to the most effectual mode of securing concerted and harmonious action in whatever measures may be deemed most desirable for our common peace and security." [Jan 11, 1861]

[Texas] "...The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression..." [Feb 1, 1861]

[Virginia] "...the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States..." [Feb 23, 1861]

http://www.csawardept.com/documents/secession/AZ/index.html

[Arizona Territory] "...a sectional party of the North has disregarded the Constitution of the United States, violated the rights of the Southern States, and heaped wrongs and indignities upon their people... That we will not recognize the present Black Republican Administration, and that we will resist any officers appointed to this Territory by said Administration with whatever means in our power." [16 March 1861 -- Abraham Lincoln was sworn in as President of the United States on March 4, 1861. The pretext for Arizona's secession was interruption of U.S. postal service.]

21 posted on 03/03/2011 7:19:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Pelham
Pelham: "Unitarians deny the Trinity."

About 5% (by membership) of Protestant denominations minimize or reject outright the language of the 4th century Catholic-Orthodox Trinitarian formulations.

Instead, what they teach is the Bible, which does not include such terms as "God the Son," "God the Holy Spirit," "fully God and fully man" -- or any of the other technical Trinitarian language adopted after the Official Church was made the State Religion of the Roman Empire, beginning in the 4th century.

Unitarians originally fell into the category of anti-Trinitarian Christians.
Today they are barely recognizable as Christians, but in their own minds, at least, they revere Christ second only to God.

Five US presidents were Unitarians: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Millard Fillmore and William Howard Taft.
Jefferson, the alleged "father" of the "wall of separation" between Church and State, is particularly noted for organizing and attending Christian church services in the US Capitol building.

22 posted on 03/05/2011 4:49:43 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

Thanks BroJoeK!


23 posted on 03/05/2011 6:31:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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