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Italian Historian Says Homosexuality Destroyed Rome ZOT!
The Eponymous Flower ^ | 04/10/11 | Tancred

Posted on 04/10/2011 1:29:58 PM PDT by 0beron

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To: 0beron

That is exceedingly hard to determine in the perpetual soap opera that were the Roman monarchy. It would be easier to say that the fall of the western empire was due to multiculturalism than to moral decay.

It could even be asserted that Christianity was responsible, Constantine I taking over just a little over a hundred years before it fell.


51 posted on 04/10/2011 3:59:12 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

It would be easy to make an educated guess because you can look at the written record, consider how much it influenced court society and society at large and why.

Also, you’d have to account for how Eunuchs were employed before during and after the Empire’s resurgence in the Sixth, Eighth and Thirteenth Centuries.

Of course, multiculturalism is accompanied by moral decay, especially the soft Marxism of the Frankfurt School. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

Of course, I suspect that despite the fact that the Eastern Empire was a multi-ethnic society, it was still able to forge a critical unity based upon the moral influence of the Orthodox Church which perpetuated the Classical heritage of the ancients and kept people’s mores in check to bring stability to the society, accounting for its tremendous resiliency.

It’s interesting in the tape of Nixon that he starts off by denying that his concerns are moral, but the more he talks about it, the more he realizes that his concerns are indeed moral ones. He’s worried about the children who will watch the cultural marxism of Karl Reiner on All in the Family, a supposedly family show showing indecent filth like that to children... in fact, I think I was 12 myself when I watched the episode that Nixon is talking about.

Are you familiar with Nixon’s controversial tapes dealing with this issue? They’re available on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TivVcfSBVSM


52 posted on 04/10/2011 4:10:34 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

It was a combination of many things of which two are: (1) the barbarians absorbed Roman military tactics and devised ways to defeat them and (2) an endless series of succession battles - including an era that saw 20 emperors in 60 years - exhausted Roman manpower and finances. Despite its decline and fall, Rome was significant for being one of the few empires to last over 1000 years. Its wars of succession were bloody, but these wars ensured that the new leader was, first and foremost, a military leader.


53 posted on 04/10/2011 4:14:23 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

A combination of effects with a single cause which was an immoral agency acting on the individuals in the society which led to the things you describe.

I’d point out that the plague around 300 effected the Empires enemies too.


54 posted on 04/10/2011 4:18:00 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

Also, most Roman Emperors were military leaders throughout the Byzantine period all the way up till the Fall in 1453. If I understand you correctly, simply being a military leader in itself wouldn’t be problematic.


55 posted on 04/10/2011 4:19:47 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Given that the Eastern empire survived for another 1000 years, that’s not a very strong argument.


56 posted on 04/10/2011 4:26:10 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: 0beron
I’d point out that the plague around 300 effected the Empires enemies too.

Homosexuality wasn't exclusive to the Roman empire. Empire-wide succession battles every few years were. At the inception of empire, Roman military methods were also unique, superior and unknown to the barbarians. Once the barbarians caught on and adapted, Roman victories became much more costly. Eventually, what used to be hard-fought victories became defeats. Every empire of note has run into this problem - there are ambitious men of ability outside of the empire who want to get their hands on the brass ring. The ones who figure out what to do get to become the successors to existing empires. Rome fell to superior military minds which created something out of nothing, despite Rome's ability to call on centuries of military tradition and accumulated military knowledge.

57 posted on 04/10/2011 4:35:18 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

We don’t really know much about the Germans except for what the Romans and the Greeks wrote about them, and homosexuality wasn’t much mention, so I don’t know how you could make that claim.

I’d welcome it if you had it, but from what I remember from some desultory reading was the Germans didn’t admit that people like that existed.


58 posted on 04/10/2011 4:38:20 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron
Also, most Roman Emperors were military leaders throughout the Byzantine period all the way up till the Fall in 1453. If I understand you correctly, simply being a military leader in itself wouldn’t be problematic.

I meant to say that for a while, the Emperors themselves were successful military leaders - it wasn't possible to become Emperor without winning a (civil) war of succession.

59 posted on 04/10/2011 4:39:28 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

And actually, if you can say that Rome fell at all, looking at the tremendous drop in central authority, collapsing infrastructure and administration following the transfer of power in the West to the successors, whoever they were and wherever they were as they chose to call themselves Vandals, Goths, Franks and so forth, the result of this dramatic transformation which brought such a qualitative and quantitative change to the Empire, was part of a chain of causation going back to the moral decay described by St. Augustine, St. Martin of Tours and others living at the time.


60 posted on 04/10/2011 4:43:20 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron
At the time of the fall, the contemporaries of that time did not recognize that Rome had fell. The barbarian conquerors saw themselves not replacing Rome, but rising to the leadership of Rome. Roman civilization survived as it was accepted by the kingdoms that supplanted the empire. We have this picture of barbarians with painted faces, running around in animal skins. The truth was quite different. The barbarian tribes had absorbed the culture of Rome into their own for hundreds of years before 476AD. The notion that homosexuality led to the fall of Rome is just silly. At the time of the fall, the Roman Empire was a fully Christian empire since the time of Constantine the Great. More plausible reasons are Rome's constant civil wars. Gibbon in 1776 argued that Christianity itself was the reason Rome fell. He believed that Rome's earlier religion fostered a more martial spirit. Be what it may, lets hope that the United States has the staying power of Rome. We have another 400 years to tie them.
61 posted on 04/10/2011 4:45:41 PM PDT by gusty
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To: Zhang Fei

[i]I meant to say that for a while, the Emperors themselves were successful military leaders - it wasn’t possible to become Emperor without winning a (civil) war of succession.[/i]

Indeed, it guaranteed in certain cases that the successor was the best man for the job, or at least the best at doing all of those things, administering provinces, influencing allies, isolating enemies, that made for an effective leader during that time period.

Although, Christianity did make for SOME smoother transitions, in some cases a perspective emperor would resign and allow a more able man take his place, and rather than killing his opponents, a new occupant of the throne would simply blind his enemies and put them in a Monastery, but that’s another thing...


62 posted on 04/10/2011 4:46:18 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron
We don’t really know much about the Germans except for what the Romans and the Greeks wrote about them, and homosexuality wasn’t much mention, so I don’t know how you could make that claim.

I'm making a generic assumption that homosexuality has existed as a fringe phenomenon since the beginning of recorded history. I don't see this statement being controversial at all. Traditionally, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have proscribed homosexuality (in some cases as a capital crime); other religions generally have not. If anything, after Christianity became the state religion, Rome should have had fewer homosexuals than the pagans on its borders, given that this coincided with homosexuality being made a capital crime.

63 posted on 04/10/2011 4:55:52 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: gusty

Belloc actually handles that thesis quite handily in his book http://books.google.com/books?id=5ryGAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=belloc+on+the+roman+church&source=bl&ots=rCbzs8Z0_v&sig=8np-hr2MoW49X_gX5lyyCxcQgWU&hl=en&ei=rUCiTcivE-H30gGJo6ifDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

The thesis that spiritual and moral generation or exhaustion is what spells the end of civilizations isn’t a new one. It’s very persuasive, and you can see that more than a few influential people believed in it with regard to the Roman State.

What I’m suggesting is that the calamities which followed on the heels of the extreme moral exhaustion of the Roman Empire, which wasn’t entirely Christian at the time you speak, maybe about half, came as a result of the moral decay which negatively effected the fertility of the women and the desire to form families. You can see from contemporaries in the quotes that Sheen is making that the family is under attack and the generality of the population is mercilessly immoral.

I’m actually surprised to see this much resistance to the idea here of all places. After all, this IS a socially conservative site. We do believe, like Richard Nixon, that the State will suffer correspondingly if the people are not moral, and all around us we see these influences destroying the coherence of American Society, not only on an intellectual plane, without which there can be no right actions, but in every aspect of society from folk culture down to the elites themselves who regard those of us who hail morality with contempt, even if they agree with us publicly.


64 posted on 04/10/2011 4:58:15 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

BTT


65 posted on 04/10/2011 5:09:26 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: 0beron

They’re trying to bait you.

Ignore them.


66 posted on 04/10/2011 5:14:34 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: 0beron
The thesis that spiritual and moral generation or exhaustion is what spells the end of civilizations isn’t a new one. It’s very persuasive, and you can see that more than a few influential people believed in it with regard to the Roman State.

I think these people are naive. Ultimately, a civilization's continued existence depends on its martial virtue (in the sense of potency). Plenty of very pious Christians have been erased from this world, including many in what is now Turkey, most of the Middle East and North Africa. In reality, religious faith is no substitute for military preparedness. What is surprising is that Christendom has survived two rounds of intra-religious genocidal-scale wars - WWI and WWII - without being threatened by Islam. It's symptomatic of just how relatively weak Islam is, from a military standpoint.

67 posted on 04/10/2011 5:18:06 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Yay! FReepathon SPAM on a blog pimp post. It’s a two-fer, DJ!


68 posted on 04/10/2011 5:34:54 PM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: TheOldLady

There’s no reason they should esca....er...I mean be exempt from a FReepathon. :-)


69 posted on 04/10/2011 5:40:36 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are at your door! How will you answer the knock?)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Indeed.


70 posted on 04/10/2011 5:43:13 PM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: 0beron

Don’t be surprised. We are not drones like those on the Left. We on the Conservative side, like you and I, think for ourselves. We do not need to follow the party line. This site would be pretty boring if we all agreed with each other, and just posted ditto. Been many a time I posted, someone disagreed, and I saw the error in my argument and changed my opinion. Its a great site for Conservative of all stripes to hash out their arguments.


71 posted on 04/10/2011 6:05:40 PM PDT by gusty
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To: 0beron

Homos are crazy. They get involved in public policy and their involvement is crazy. Crazy has many faces like spending more money that one has or eliminating defense or crazy self destructive social behavior which weakens a whole nation like cancer weakens a body. We see it happening all around us.


72 posted on 04/10/2011 6:12:05 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (My dad put his arm around me like that once, to this very day he wears orthopedic shirts.)
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: 0beron

It sure did! When the perverted homosexuals chant Rome accepted homosexuality. They always fail to mention. It was only at the end of Rome that this was done. Not the beginning!


74 posted on 04/10/2011 7:20:29 PM PDT by DMG2FUN
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To: 0beron

It sure did! When the perverted homosexuals chant Rome accepted homosexuality. They always fail to mention. It was only at the end of Rome that this was done. Not the beginning!


75 posted on 04/10/2011 7:24:39 PM PDT by DMG2FUN
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To: 0beron

I don’t think the resistance is to the subject, per se...it’s resistance to the 6 tracking sites and 37 cookies dumped onto our machines by your blog.

Now, if you’ll pardon me, I have go run my spyware/malware programs after checking it out.


76 posted on 04/10/2011 7:41:11 PM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: Admin Moderator; All; Jim Robinson; kristinn

“They’re trying to bait you.

Ignore them.”

Ya know, I really prefer my Admin Moderators to be the silent type, until it is absolutely necessary to jump in and truly moderate a thread. I’ve been here since 1998, and I have seen countless examples to back me up since then...until just recently when all of a sudden, we have a new Admin Mod who likes to do a lot more than just “moderate”.

I do not like it when a rogue Admin Mod jumps into a thread where they are not needed. For starters it is a cowardly act because we all know that Admin Mod is the keeper of the keys, and nobody really knows who the duty Admin Mod is.

Why? Because until very recently, the only words out of a good Admin Mod have been “Zot” and little else. It’s a good way to run things and I believe that policy, such as it is, has served this site very, very well; and I question whether you have the singular authority to make a change like that all by your lonesome, especially on a Sunday night when nobody else is apparently looking.

This is not the first, or second time I have brought this up either.

Whomever you are, if you want to participate in this thread, then I strongly suggest that you log in under your real FR identity and take your lumps like the rest of us. If you want to play Admin Mod, then do so quietly and stop distracting yourself by rolling on the floor with the dogs when you ought to be watching the entire site.

You’re supposed to be in charge. Act like it.


77 posted on 04/10/2011 7:52:31 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Stout Hearts!!)
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To: Jean S

*ping*


78 posted on 04/10/2011 8:00:25 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Stout Hearts!!)
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis; paulycy
When I signed up to FR, the screen name I chose was *Rainbow Sprinkles* ...Mr. Robinson kindly changed it after Paulycy explained its connotation. Carry on.


79 posted on 04/10/2011 8:04:31 PM PDT by Daffynition (DBKP ~ Death By 1000 Papercuts)
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To: TheOldLady; DJ MacWoW

Yeah, because parasites *always* make an honest effort to benefit their hosts.

/s

:)

[Please buy my product!]


80 posted on 04/10/2011 8:10:40 PM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: 0beron

Interesting post. Thanks.

No doubt Romans found out the hard way that sex free of Natural law, is not free. We are going to find out the same and so is Europe. The Globalists love it. The more destruction, the more money they make and property they take; the more treasuries they shake down...


81 posted on 04/10/2011 8:12:10 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Daffynition

Oberon was the king of the fairies in the Bard’s “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”.


82 posted on 04/10/2011 8:12:25 PM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: 0beron

Don’t sign off. The people harassing you are acting rudely. They have an abuse button they are supposed to push if they think you are acting intolerably. And obviously blogging pushes their buttons.

Read the blog posting rules and decide if you want to share the information from your blog on this site or not. People here are not usually rude like this. We love discussing interesting information like you posted here.

If you are addressed by a moderator, you will know it from the name addressing you.


83 posted on 04/10/2011 8:16:42 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: paulycy

Please stop harassing people. Put the abuse button if someone has broken the forum rules and let the mods handle it.

I find the article he posted interesting to discuss on Free Republic. And I know you don’t want to go to his site to read it. So please be civil and report it if it is against the rules rather than turing to rampaging posses to join you in your overwrought outrage.


84 posted on 04/10/2011 8:19:50 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: 0beron

If you read what Jim R. wrote, he does not have a rules around posting blog links like your harassers are saying. I think maybe booze is involved. LOL


85 posted on 04/10/2011 8:23:38 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: SaraJohnson

This is a serious post full of nothing but sincere, helpful intentions.

If you are using Firefox, go install the ABINE and “Cookie Culler” plug-ins ***_right now_***.

That site “harvested” one of my personal email addresses.

What do you suppose will be done with *that*?

You were warned.


86 posted on 04/10/2011 9:00:37 PM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: SaraJohnson
Do you have comprehension problems?

Jim Rob on bloggers:

"I have no complaint if a good conservative blogger posts his own material to FR, not as an excerpt to drive hits and discussion back to his blog, but rather to impart useful information to OUR readers and to promote and join in on the discussion and conservative activism HERE on FR.

If a blogger can’t or refuses do that, and if he constantly complains or fights with our participants over it, then I’d just as soon he doesn’t post here.

It’s not my job to make his content or his presentation or cooperation acceptable to our readers.

That’s his job.

And if he cannot do it or refuses to do it and continues posting brief excerpts only and obviously attempting to draw away our participants while loudly complaining about it, then I have no sympathy for his complaints and the more apt I am to ban his account and blog.

It *that* easier for you to understand?

87 posted on 04/10/2011 9:06:07 PM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: Salamander; 0beron
"Oberon was the king of the fairies in the Bard’s “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”."

"WTH?"

(That didn't dawn on me. I guess his using a "0" (0beron) instead of an "O" (Oberon) threw me off.) ;)

88 posted on 04/10/2011 9:48:42 PM PDT by Semper Mark (Vlad Tepes was a piker.)
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To: Markos33

Yeah.

A fiendishly clever distinction.

[not]


89 posted on 04/10/2011 10:12:12 PM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: Salamander
Oberon, located here in NE, also makes *special* glasses [emphasis special] glasses for gays. Please don't confuse me.


90 posted on 04/10/2011 10:45:36 PM PDT by Daffynition (DBKP ~ Death By 1000 Papercuts)
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Comment #91 Removed by Moderator

Comment #92 Removed by Moderator

To: Markos33

LOL

Ya Dork!

I’ve have been laughing at your post for about two minutes as I read your response and keep looking at that picture.

Too funny!

LOL


93 posted on 04/10/2011 11:37:20 PM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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Comment #94 Removed by Moderator

To: Daffynition

The thought of “gay welders” boggles the mind.

[I do not think I will mention them to welder hubby]


95 posted on 04/11/2011 12:52:42 AM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: 0beron

Hi, Obie!

I note that you post only “articles” from your blog, all excerpted:

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:0beron/index?tab=articles

Please disclose how much money you have made abusing Free Republic this way.
Is it an effective advertising platform for your blog?


96 posted on 04/11/2011 12:53:21 AM PDT by humblegunner (Blogger Overlord)
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To: Vendome

It’s sort of addictive [or hypnotizing?] isn’t it?

;-D


97 posted on 04/11/2011 12:53:55 AM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: Vendome

There is the possibility that Sara installed the Firefox plug ins and is totally gobsmacked by all the tracking crap on her machine, now and is too busy deleting it all.

Hope her _personal email address_ didn’t get ‘jacked like mine did.

On the upside, the one he got from me is a *very* seldom used address [one of many, actually] and if I start to get a sudden influx of garbage in that account, I’ll KNOW who to blame.

.


98 posted on 04/11/2011 12:58:10 AM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: humblegunner

Six trackers, 27 cookies ~and~ an email harvester.

[email harvesters can access your personal information system files, for those who don’t know what’s happening to your machine while you’re not looking]


99 posted on 04/11/2011 1:03:22 AM PDT by Salamander (I made friends with a lot of people in the Danger Zone.teds herer)
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To: Salamander

Hopefully she better understands the problem for FR with bloggers and that we don’t have anything against them.

They can post all they want, so long as it’s within community rules.

I really don’t understand why some people have a problem udnerstanding it’s in their best interest for blog pimps to be busted.

The bloggers motivation I get but the fawning support for them must be some deep seated need to stand up for the underdog which, of course, they are not.

When bloggers continue I just consider them to be selfish theives who don’t care if others are taken advantage of or hurt.

(Soapbox switched off.)


100 posted on 04/11/2011 1:04:21 AM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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