Skip to comments.Obama's long-form birth certificate debunked - with illustrations
Posted on 05/01/2011 6:45:48 AM PDT by eastexsteve
click here to read article
If I had a scanner, I would scan mine. Perhaps when I go to work on Tuesday, I’ll scan it there and see what happens.
I agree the birth certicatre issue is a huge waste of energy. I wish it was over. But, either we’re a nation of laws or we aren’t. By not addressing this obvious and sophomoric lie, are we not bestowing King status on obama?
Here is ANOTHER lie, posted on another thread.
Uh, try this: http://tinyurl.com/BC-Debunked
Welcome to FR. You may find that some don’t take kindly to vanity posts by newbies, but you will find a home with the conspiracy buffs.
Occam’s razor isn’t a law. But it’s a pretty good way of analyzing competing theories.
How do you explain why Barack Obama would have to do a substitution on the letter “R” in his name as part of a forgery/modification of other birth certificates.
How do you explain what word ended in “enya” on other birth certificates, that the Obama team felt they had to change the first letter to a “K”?
In other words, you are looking a scanned, possibly multiply-scanned, document, pointing out random anomalies, and arguing that these random anomalies are evidence of a well-planned but poorly-executed conspiracy. But with no explanation as to WHY someone would generate these particular anomalies, or how they play a part in the conspiracy, you have nothing.
Which isn’t surprising for conspiracy theories. You don’t try to disprove conspiracies, because those you can convince never fell for it, and those who fell for it are unlikely to be persuaded by any evidence.
For extra credit, list the facts that, if they were presented, would change your opinion of the consipiracy:
1. A video of Obama being born? Could be faked, they didn’t have videos, “we know he was born, the question is where”.
2. A signed affidavit by a hospital employee? It was years ago, they might have been bought off, or Obama has something on them, or they are an Obama syncophant, or they are mis-remembering. Why didn’t they come out before? Too convenient.
3. Birth announcement in the paper — already been conspiricized away.
4. Sworn oaths by HI officials — they don’t know what they are talking about, my grandmother says that’s not how it works, they are Obama enablers, you can parse their words to say they didn’t actually claim what they said they claimed.
5. Released documents — forgeries, determined by examining copies of copies of copies produced through unknown means using various computer programs.
6. Statements of people who have seen the original — the original doesn’t exist, they can’t be trusted, journalists are in the bag for Obama.
Seriously, I can’t think of any possible evidence that could be shown that wouldn’t be dismissed by the conspiracy crowd. That is what makes a good conspiracy.
People keep comparing this to the Rathergate forgeries. But there was a reason for those forgeries, and they were revealed almost immediately, and were obvious based on the nature of what the original documents would have looked like, and comparison with other documents.
The argument wasn’t over how an OCR program tried to make sense out of a copy of a document scanned on security paper; the Rathergate papers were supposed to be scans of originals from actual files, not officially provided copies per current computer storage and transmission rules.
We knew the chain of evidence in that case, knew the source was someone with a motive, opportunity, and a proven propensity to lie about papers; it made sense they might have tried to forge papers. It wasn’t a claim that official government workers and major public officials and politicians were PART of the conspiracy.
In fact, Rathergate wasn’t much of a conspiracy. It was about one or two people hatching a plan, pulling it off, and fooling others who wanted to believe. That’s why it was believable.
If you can find a different link, please ping me.
Sorry to bother you so much, but here is another ping.
Same deal: “Website cannot be found”
Bad Request. Error 400 is what I get.
You got it.
I believe there is zero chance he'll get impeached this term, but I do think it is VERY important that controls be put in place so that ONLY Natural Born Citizens, as intended by the founders and defined in the Constitution, are allowed on future ballots. If the issue loses steam now that may not happen, and another possible Manchurian could become President.
You’re funny. You should go on tour.
One of the things I notice about libs is that they love to write and write and write and write.
It’s almost like you’re trying to convince yourself.
Try this one. The first one didn’t work for me.
ANother sign of a conspiracy is that the conspiracy supporters rarely can answer simple questions, and instead resort to saying things like “get off the thread”, or “you’re so funny”, or “you wrote too many words for me to read”.
BTW, Liberals tend not to write or think much, and they lose interest quickly. Conservatives don’t normally claim that liberals are the ones doing lots of writing and analyzing.
But, if you think that anything over a few words is a sign of liberal writing, did that stop you from reading the google document referenced by this thread?
OK, it would be very informative. In my time working with OCR, I never took a produced doc image and see what photo editing software did with it. Keep me/us posted.
You’re wrong...about a lot of things.
I’m sure I am. But apparently about nothing here that you can make an argument over.
Will do, wrote your name down so I don’t forget.
I get the feeling that you supported Rather right up to the end.
That one opened.
Really good stuff here. Great job.
Have you looked closely at the ‘raised seal’ (actually it is supposed to be a deembossed seal from the back.
It is barely visible around fields 20 and 23 a little below.
You can see the smugging of the circular seal. But the black lettering and lines are not affected by the supposed ‘raised’ effect.
Just another red flag....
The link did not work, got an error message.
We need to put this silliness behind us and go on to the important issues...fundraising, golfing, and going on the Oprah show.
We need to put this silliness behind us and go on to the important issues...fundraising, golfing, and going on the Oprah show.
Welcome to FR!
I won’t say the role of the MSM is to protect the American people so much as to provide us with facts, and that is reflected in the Fox news motto: `We report, you decide’; unfortunately Fox appears to have gone the way of the AP and NYT—offering editorial opinions as fact.
Once Obama produced this document copy (a variation on his first certificate of live birth) the MSM immediately began using it to scold us, as it has done since 2008. They have held both up as authentic public records, as genuine since the day they were produced by 0’s campaign committee.
Responsible news gatherers would have replied, “Now the proferred document will be submitted to experts for authentication.”
Instead they again conclude that it is genuine and repeat the same invective against `birthers’ that they used since Obama’s eligibility to run was first challenged in 2008.
Fun to speculate on in private, not so good for winning major elections.
The people being made fun of with this bad forgery are not birthers. Those who would knowingly lie any lie to defend the President are the one’s being shamed.
The President knows they (journalists, operatives) will cover for him.
I guess you have the goat blowing covered?
ping for later
**Im sure that all the kerning and layering were done for the specific purpose of keeping the controversy going.**
Probably. If they wanted to really close the book on this they would have made a BC from all the old machinery (it’s still available), broke in and/or had insider help to ‘borrow’ the microfilm roll, spliced the flawless construction into the roll (probably the toughest part of it all), and then make a new roll to replace the old at the storage facility (that machinery is probably still around as well). Of course, that would require some very dedicated co-conspirators who would never say anything to anyone.
**Obamas cynical gift to those who wish to focus on this issue.**
I’m not focusing on this issue alone. I’m not the smartest by a long shot, but even a boxer uses both fists coupled with jabs, hooks, etc., striking anywhere above the belt where the opponent is vulnerable.
Obama the Marxist IS vulnerable to relentless attacks to his past and present life. He’s not God, and the pressure from all angles should be increased for, if nothing else, to make his lying life very miserable.
Then maybe he would call on the Lord to deliver him from his sin (With God all things are possible).
Because the are either deluded because they don’t want to see the facts and truth, or scared wabbist who chose the wrong side for perceived safety. Or just plain evil and lies are their food and drink.
It’s like living in the Twilight Zone.
The only way to authenticate the new document is through the Hawaii DOH. There is a small problem with this though....Obamas records are still under Presidential Seal! Any other time you spend looking at document anomolies is just a waste of time. Americans need full cooperation with Hawaii DOH or this issue is in no different position than the first fake COLB.
As bad as I hate to say it, I agree with you.
All of that work was done back in the 1960s ~ typing, rubber stamping, pre-printing, etc. ~ signatures!~ ALL 50 years ago.
Then, about then it was photographed (in a binder) on what was probably a 914 Xerox workstation ~ frequently used to support large scale continuing microfiche activities.
Later, maybe in the 70s/80s some intermediate steps were performed that resulted in the 90s with a fully digitized stored image somewhere on a CD. To retrieve a birth certificate you'd simply go to the file where it was "kept/maintained", download it to the system, and the system would pull it out and provide you with a regular xerox print image on top of whatever security paper you wanted.
Looks like they still do that BTW.
Then, that document would be given to a clerk who hit it with another rubber stamp telling you that it was either an abstract or true copy, signed/initialed, and passed on to you upon the payment of the requisite fee.
Subsequently the document was xeroxed and passed around to the press, and someone went back and got a copy NOT printed on security paper and that's been xeroxed and passed around.
You hit on all the big items.
We are currently trying to find out if the Lee person was real ~ and who he or she might be. There are several theories. Plus, some folks are arguing back and forth about the relative value of items that could demonstrate in or out of sequence practices back in 1961 that may tend to indicate there was some hankypankyby Stanley Ann's grandmother (trying to pass off an adopted baby from somewhere as her daughters).
Other discussion has turned to the supposed baby-daddy.
Be a good idea for you to review ALL the threads to see what's up with this.
I just found my bc, whew, took me a while! Unfortunately it’s been folded in three’s since day 1 and I can no longer see my mom’s info.
I just called the Bronx Lebanon Hospital, where I was born and they informed me I have to go to Manhattan (ew) to get another certified copy. I asked if it would be the same exact one I have and she informed me yes, it would be.
I think I may do so on my day off, Wednesday. But in the mean time, I will scan what I have and see what happens.
7 people by my count. Three of them were part of the old Doonesbury political chat room ~ one of the first big ones. Then the guy who showed up with the documents, Dan Rather, his daughter and her “friend”.
I have no problem opening his link.....it’s my link that seems to have a problem.
It shows the 4 layers of barrys “bc”. I posted it in both Firefox and IE but Scanian still can’t open it.
Google deleted it soon after it was posted, some were able to view it and others still aren’t.
Weird....just like everything else going on.
You and the one or two other anti-birthers here are embarrassing yourselves.
Stop wasting your time chasing details on a piece of paper that has no certification value folks....
It is NOT a certified document as release by the DOH of Hawaii with the required embossed seal. It is a copy of something and a scan-to of something thereby carrying no certification value whatsoever.
Trying to use it FOR or AGAINST Obama is an utter waste of time.
He still has not released the actual certified copy of a COLB that would be generated by the DOH of Hawaii with an embossed, date and signed seal.
The lie continues, nothing more...until he releases a genuine certified copy of the COLB with noticeable alterations indicating fraud/forgery...all you have is a lie...nothing more.
What I'm more interested in is the data submitted as coming from the records on file in HI the actual data? I'm not interested how it got here be via a photocopy, scanned doc, hand written on a scratch piece of paper, microfilche or whatever. Is it the data that is on file in HI? If so then all these anomalies are just that anomalies but don't impact the data as being legit if it is what's on file.
After all this has a stamp certifying it as being legit and Loretta Fuddy, the Director of Health in her letter stated she personally witnessed the copying and attested to its authenticity.
While this whole "assembled" PDF document the White House put out could be a ruse and trap to further embarrass the "birthers" as Mario considered in his new article, I had another thought. What's to say that the copies given to Obama's lawyer sent to Hawaii, and attested to by Hawaiian officials, actually show the same information on those two paper copies that is now being displayed on the internet in this very badly assembled PDF document.
As I recall the former HI director when interviewed in recent weeks, she said when she saw the alleged original Obama birth registration document she said it was half typed and half hand written. What we are being shown on the net is something that is entirely typed except for the signatures. That does not comport with what the former HI Health Dept Director said.
What if the Obama powers sent the lawyer to Hawaii to provide the necessary cover story that they did get two copies of the Obama vital record there ... but the image on the net now is NOT of the paper copies that they picked up ... say because there is something on it that Obama still does not wish to reveal. So he has a version cooked up once again to put online, and someone screwed up and did not flatten the PDF file prior to release to hide the layers. Would Hawaii officials speak up to affirm or deny that what Obama put on the net is not an image of the copy of what they gave to Obama's lawyer. Or would they keep silent in much the same way they did regarding the Certification document, the short form images on the net since Jun 2008. Remember that Hawaii never confirmed that any of those images on the net were copies of something that they issued. Hawaii has been very willing to cooperate with Obama's stonewalling and game playing regarding the vital records in HI for Obama. And, Obama is playing such a cat and mouse game with the American electorate about all his hidden records that one can never tell with him as to what is real or what is memorex. It is a disgrace how this administration is treating the American citizenry. And the main stream media does not call him out on this and instead helps and enables Obama to conduct such offensive disinformation tactics on the American electorate. Journalism no longer exists in this nation. The media should be ashamed.
Deport has a link to a pdf document of correspondence between Zero, his lawyer and HI.
Hawaii - a criminal enterprise disguised as a State.
Yes, we’ve seen the stamp. But that doesn’t mean it’s not worth while focusing on what prove to be numerous problems and discrepancies.
For instance, the White House says that they have posted a copy of a paper birth certificate on their website—actually a COLB, as you recognize.
Only problem with that, is that some of the many discrepancies would not be there if this were merely a copy of a paper COLB—even a forged paper COLB. There are also numerous signs of computer manipulation. This is not merely a copy, not even of a fake COLB. It’s fake on top of fake on top of fake.