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Judge Intervenes to Prevent Homeschooled Catholic Children from Getting Hooked on Phonics
Homeschool Legal Defense Association HSLDA via First Thoughts Blog ^ | June 2, 2011 | Joe Carter

Posted on 06/09/2011 6:13:55 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued

Four children ages 9, 7, 5 and 3 from a homeschooling Catholic family in Notre-Dame-des-Bois in Québec, Canada have been ordered into public school for socialization and non-phonics reading instruction. As Lydia McGrew explains:

This case from Canada, which one would like to think couldn’t happen in the U.S., is a fairly egregious example of judicial micromanagement: Judge Nicole Bernier (it would be a female judge!) ordered four children from a home schooling family into school and, in the case of children too young for school (down to age 3), into daycare so as to get what Judge Bernier calls “socialization.” To add injury to injury, Bernier wants the children to go to public school so that they will be taught to read (or, as the case may be, not taught to read) by non-phonics methods!

Now, this is crazy. The parents have not been accused of abusing or neglecting their children. Judge B. (by whatever ill fate she was brought into these innocent people’s lives) is just having a grand old time throwing around her weight and forcing them to raise their children as Judge B. would, presumably, raise her children. The notion of any sort of familial independence to make judgment calls about education is nowhere in the picture. (For the record, while I am a staunch advocate of phonics, I would consider laughable and pernicious the suggestion that some judge should interfere if parents were “caught” teaching their children to read by a look-say method.)

(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: publicschools; quebec

1 posted on 06/09/2011 6:13:58 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued
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To: fanfan; metmom; wintertime
It seems that while Canada has better schools than the U.S., they're going through many of the same problems that we are. Their homeschooling movement is small and beleaguered, as this article illustrates.
2 posted on 06/09/2011 6:16:54 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Muslims are a people of love, peace, and goodwill, and if you say that they aren't, they'll kill you)
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To: Clintonfatigued

What that Leftist tyrant in a black robe really wants is to have them Socialized with Socialism.


3 posted on 06/09/2011 6:17:47 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Indeed, our Canadian neighbors are going through the same struggles with Political Correctness as we are.


4 posted on 06/09/2011 6:18:44 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Muslims are a people of love, peace, and goodwill, and if you say that they aren't, they'll kill you)
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To: Clintonfatigued

leftism / liberal fascism is NOT mere “political correctness”. These terms are not interchangeable.


5 posted on 06/09/2011 6:22:23 PM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
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To: Clintonfatigued
I don't have a preference one way or the other since it's very common in my family for young children to learn to read spontaneously ~ sometimes as early as 3, but never later than 6 or 7.

On the other hand, I have seen children educated with both phonics and with look-say.

Phonics is a guide to decoding what the words are saying to you. Look-say doesn't work at all with kids who have no understanding of what those words are supposed to mean. If you've been taught phonics, you can figure out what a word sounds like without knowing what it means, and that has some distinct value in conversing with others later on. Look-say can leave you flat with new words. Relying on that method alone rather cuts the brain off at the frontal cerebral cortex.

Judge Nicole Bernier sounds terribly ignorant. I didn't know that Canada allowed people like that on the bench. She'd be much better off on one of those fascistic human rights panels.

6 posted on 06/09/2011 6:22:32 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Clintonfatigued
so as to get what Judge Bernier calls “socialization.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Socialization? ...Let's call it what it is: Indoctrination.

7 posted on 06/09/2011 6:23:45 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: Clintonfatigued

8 posted on 06/09/2011 6:26:32 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: wintertime

The socialization that schools provide has been known to cause psychiatric problems that take years to recover from. Some former students never recover.


9 posted on 06/09/2011 6:26:36 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Muslims are a people of love, peace, and goodwill, and if you say that they aren't, they'll kill you)
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To: Clintonfatigued
The next time the good guys are in charge they should adopt the methods of the bad guys when dealing with leftists.

10 posted on 06/09/2011 6:28:56 PM PDT by I see my hands (Embrace misanthropy)
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To: Clintonfatigued
Exactly!

Children learn prison survival socialization in these institutions. Nearly all of these dysfunctional coping habits must absolutely be unlearned if they are to be successful in life.

Thankfully, humans are resilient and most move on to form health relationships with marriage, family, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. Sadly, some do not. We all know a few. :-(

11 posted on 06/09/2011 6:30:58 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: Clintonfatigued

That Judge sounds like a nut job. It looks like she gave bogus reasons to force the kids to go to school. I wonder if the family can personally sue this Judge?


12 posted on 06/09/2011 6:36:52 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: Sprite518

Of course not - no one can personally sue a judge based on their rulings - are you kidding me? Voting the judge out of office is their only recourse, unless they move to another jurisdiction.


13 posted on 06/09/2011 6:43:45 PM PDT by demkicker (Helping Democrats Become Extinct)
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To: Clintonfatigued

It’s a shame the “Report Abuse” button right below your post doesn’t work outside of the forum. Because sending kids to public school is a form of child abuse.

People like this judge repeat over and over that children won’t learn “socialization” unless they go to public school. Yet I’ve never seen anyone make a good argument as to what is the supposed benefit of all that “socialization.” Is there any empirical data that supports the claims made for its value?

Personally, I don’t see the benefit of shoving kids into an environment where bullying runs rampant. But maybe that’s just me.


14 posted on 06/09/2011 6:51:01 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom

“sending kids to public school is a form of child abuse.”

Yes it is. Many of them have hangups years after leaving.


15 posted on 06/09/2011 6:54:25 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Muslims are a people of love, peace, and goodwill, and if you say that they aren't, they'll kill you)
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To: muawiyah
I teach 11th grade American Literature & Advanced Composition I and 12th grade British Literature & Advanced Composition II. My students were taught to read at our elementary schools using the look-say method. I have classrooms full of functioning illiterates. This past school year, two different bathroom fights resulted in two broken jaws. Our son is almost three and our daughter is due in early September. We will homeschool our children. When my colleagues look at me in horror and ask what we will do for socialization I tell them, “Once a week my husband will take them into the bathroom, beat them up, and then try to sell them drugs.” That usually ends the conversation.
16 posted on 06/09/2011 6:56:30 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: I see my hands
The next time the good guys are in charge they should adopt the methods of the bad guys when dealing with leftists.

They prefer to Reach Across the Aisle®, My Friend™.

17 posted on 06/09/2011 7:09:21 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Just once I'd like someone to call me 'Sir' without adding 'You're making a scene.' - Homer Simpson)
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To: goodwithagun
My husband is a teacher and repeatedly says that our five children will never go to public school. We've been homeschooling for 3 years now and I am very grateful that he's willing to be the “weird” one at work.

Interestingly enough, the parents who were upset enough to demand a meeting with my husband when they found out we were going to homeschool were all outspoken conservatives. Funny how the idea of government controlling their healthcare had them up in arms; but the thought of anyone pulling children from government school was extremely offensive to them.

18 posted on 06/09/2011 7:11:28 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: Clintonfatigued

Let’s face it, we all know this is about neither “socialization” nor phonics. Canadadian voters teach what they tolerate.


19 posted on 06/09/2011 7:25:58 PM PDT by RitaOK
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To: Clintonfatigued
If I were homeschooling my kids and a judge issued this kind of ruling, I'd rightly consider it an act of aggression against my family and would react accordingly.

Here in the U.S. we overthrew our British government over less egregious sh!t than this.

20 posted on 06/09/2011 7:27:10 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Spudx7
Funny how the idea of government controlling their healthcare had them up in arms; but the thought of anyone pulling children from government school was extremely offensive to them.

I'm thinking they didn't find it "offensive" that you and your husband pulled your kids from government-run schools, but that they felt like a bunch of dupes who had been conned all their lives about government-run schools. Sort of like the "crabs in a bucket" syndrome, if you know what I mean.

21 posted on 06/09/2011 7:29:50 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child
You're probably right, I hadn't thought of that. One man even asked the Superintendent if it was legal for a teacher to homeschool.

I am amazed at how so many people pour themselves into their children's school through involvement in athletic booster clubs and other activities. Their lives seem to be centered around our local school.

22 posted on 06/09/2011 7:41:23 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: Spudx7
I seem to remember reading a similar story some years ago from the Seattle area. That case involved actual outrage by a lot of people in the school district, because the person in question was a school principal!
23 posted on 06/09/2011 7:44:19 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Clintonfatigued

Hooked on Socialism.


24 posted on 06/09/2011 7:44:27 PM PDT by denydenydeny (Rage all you want, looters & moochers, but the gods of the copybook headings are your masters now.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
That's a far cry from the Pol Pot methods I'd endorse when it comes to leftists.

25 posted on 06/09/2011 7:53:54 PM PDT by I see my hands (Embrace misanthropy)
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To: Clintonfatigued; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; adopt4Christ; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

Ping


26 posted on 06/09/2011 7:55:37 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: muawiyah
muawiyah said: "Phonics is a guide to decoding what the words are saying to you."

The phonetic properties of the letters is what distinguishes our written language from, say, Chinese, with tens of thousands of characters to memorize.

Ignoring this property effectively doubles the effort required to learn both the spoken and written language. My grandson learned the phonetic values of the letters before learning the actual names of the letters.

27 posted on 06/09/2011 7:58:54 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: Alberta's Child

People get angry, but never seem to ask what does he know about the school that I don’t?


28 posted on 06/09/2011 8:06:46 PM PDT by Spudx7
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To: Clintonfatigued

Phonics is by far the best way to learn to read. I was lucky enough to have an old-school first grade teacher who taught phonics. I learned to read in a week (literally) and by the next year was reading chapter books on my own. My older brother was unlucky enough to land in a look-say first grade classroom, and didn’t get up to grade-level reading until about 4th grade. And he was never much interested in school, largely because of his early experiences.

My 4 y.o. twins are interested in words now, and I am starting to teach them (informally — they are only 4, after all!) how to sound out words. They are constantly running around here sounding out everything they can find. I am sure they will be proficient readers in a couple of years.

Pnonics really is the only way to teach reading!


29 posted on 06/09/2011 11:28:45 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert ("And I'm actually happy to be, for us to be the moat with alligators party." -- Mark Steyn)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass
The Origins of Political Correctness

Political Correctness is, ironically, the politically correct term for "Cultural Marxism".

So, indeed, they've made fascism sound "nice" by using a different term, but if you think they're functionally different, we'll have to disagree.

30 posted on 06/10/2011 5:22:13 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: I see my hands

If the “good guys” don’t realize soon that the “bad guys” want to EXTERMINATE us and act accordingly,

I’m afraid the bad guys are going to succeed.


31 posted on 06/10/2011 5:23:20 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: demkicker

There’s always “Henry Bowman, pick up the white courtesy phone, your hogs are hungry.”

Just sayin’...

When there is no other recourse, the fascists bring certain things upon themselves.


32 posted on 06/10/2011 5:24:31 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Spudx7; Alberta's Child

I read a stat in some homeschool publication that said that of all professions, “public educators” had the highest rate of homeschooling.


33 posted on 06/10/2011 5:26:52 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Clintonfatigued
Judge Nicole Bernier (it would be a female judge!) ordered four children from a home schooling family into school and, in the case of children too young for school (down to age 3), into daycare so as to get what Judge Bernier calls “socialization.”

Who wants socialist kids?

34 posted on 06/10/2011 8:14:32 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: demkicker
Of course not - no one can personally sue a judge based on their rulings - are you kidding me? Voting the judge out of office is their only recourse, unless they move to another jurisdiction.

Is that allowed?

35 posted on 06/10/2011 8:17:38 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Jeff Chandler
They prefer to Reach Across the Aisle®, My Friend™.

Reaching across the aisle to leftists is fine, as long as you're holding a flamethrower.

36 posted on 06/10/2011 8:19:41 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: muawiyah
I don't have a preference one way or the other since it's very common in my family for young children to learn to read spontaneously ~ sometimes as early as 3, but never later than 6 or 7.

When I was 3 or 4, I was riding with my mom in the car, and I said something about a Conoco station. Maybe she had said she needed gas or something. She asked how I new it was a Conoco station, and I said "Well, it says C-O-N-O-C-O. That spells 'Conoco', doesnt' it?"

37 posted on 06/10/2011 8:26:27 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: MrB
So, indeed, they've made fascism sound "nice" by using a different term, but if you think they're functionally different, we'll have to disagree.

I don't think it sounds "nice" at all. In fact, my usual statement is that if it were the normal actually-factually form of correctness, they wouldn't need the extra word, so then it must NOT be correct.

38 posted on 06/10/2011 8:28:45 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Clintonfatigued
Our focus should be on the PHONICS part of this situation.

The Progressives who are running our public schools, know that if you cant read you are easily controlled. Whole language/ Sight and Say has created a nation of functional illiterates. PHONICS is their enemy so they constantly seek to abolish its use because they know it produces readers.

39 posted on 06/10/2011 8:38:43 AM PDT by codder too
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To: Still Thinking
My kids' first read word was PIZZA as in "Springfield Pizza", although one of them picked up "Pizza" looking down a roof in California somewhere ~ and he was right. Both were three as I recall.

You know what's more boring than watching paint dry? It's being 6 or 7 in a reading class and you already know how to read everything.

40 posted on 06/10/2011 9:00:41 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: William Tell
Actually, the trick to understanding what a Chinese character means is to examine the context.

Sounds strange, but it's more than pictures ~ it's threads and trends ~ and the written language does not always mean exactly the same thing in one spoken language as it does another ~ usually because of idiomatic expressions ~ which are usually going to be different in each language.

In phonics you learn what "to", "too", and "two" mean in the same manner. In Look/Say you never really learn why they should be different ~ like growing up and every year they cut off a finger until you can't feel anything. Must be a horrible experience to be both genetically deficient and then get crippled by your teachers.

41 posted on 06/10/2011 9:07:01 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
muawiyah said: "You know what's more boring than watching paint dry? It's being 6 or 7 in a reading class and you already know how to read everything. "

It was bad enough in my day (our day?), when the pace was set to accomodate the average student. Today I believe they attempt to set the pace for "no child left behind", but they do it at the expense of practically everybody else.

We campaigned to have our youngest put into first grade but were assured by the staff that such a move was rarely justified. Six weeks into the term we got a call that they were going to move her up because it was disrupting to the class to have her reading stories to the other children during breaks.

Our response was, "Really? Well if you think it best."

42 posted on 06/10/2011 9:44:24 AM PDT by William Tell
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To: Clintonfatigued; Tax-chick

That seems true, Clintonfatigued.

What do you think TC?


43 posted on 06/10/2011 3:31:15 PM PDT by fanfan (Why did they bury Barry's past?)
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To: fanfan; Clintonfatigued

I think Canada’s public schools started their educational decline later than the United States’s, and the operation of faith-based schools within the government system, as in Britain, helped to keep morally-solid public education available.

Now, the leftists are really pushing the radical agenda on all the schools, and cutting back on academic rigor. This is what drives the birth of a homeschooling movement. In the US, it’s been going on since the 1980s, and homeschoolers from the US are working with families in other countries to help establish a legal foundation for home education.

On the international front, things could go either way - toward more freedom, or toward a major crackdown. The UN is very opposed to home education: they want the One World drones programmed from birth, if they’re allowed to survive that long.


44 posted on 06/10/2011 6:54:44 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("WWSP?" - What Would Sionnsar Post?)
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To: Clintonfatigued

bump


45 posted on 06/10/2011 7:04:25 PM PDT by tutstar
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