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Dutch Admission: Marijuana Isnít So Soft Kids!
Weekend Libertarian ^ | June 29, 2011 | B.P. Terpstra

Posted on 06/28/2011 4:10:38 PM PDT by AustralianConservative

Okay. So it’s too late for some fried brains – but better late than never. From Reuters:

Now, a Dutch commission has found that hashish and marijuana on sale in the Netherlands contain around 18 percent of THC, the main psychoactive substance, and advised the health minister that anything above 15 percent put drugs on a par with heroin or cocaine.

“I've been very worried for years about the THC concentration, especially if it is so high. We will take a serious look at it," Health Minister Edith Schippers told public broadcaster NOS.

“The addictive consequences are much stronger and severe. Clearly this is a worrying development.”

When asked if tolerant soft drugs policies would end if some cannabis was labeled as a hard drug, she said: “The THC concentration fluctuates widely so the 15 percent level is not common. You'd have to look at how to change this development.”

Utopianism disappoints. Decades earlier, the Dutch experiment was sold uncritically as progressive, and the way of the future. In recent years, however, so-called soft drugs have been restricted on health and crime grounds, because attacks on family businesses and medical costs are costly, as conservatives predicted.

Some background. Here’s Larry Collins in Foreign Affairs (May/June 1999):

As the coffee shops boomed between 1984 and 1996, marijuana use among Dutch youths aged 18 to 25 leapt by well over 200 percent. In 1997, there was a 25 percent increase in the number of registered cannabis addicts receiving treatment for their habit, as compared to a mere 3 percent rise in cases of alcohol abuse. In 1995, public Ministry of Justice studies estimated that 700,000 to 750,000 of Holland’s 15 million people – about 5 percent of the population – were regular cannabis users.

(Excerpt) Read more at weekendlibertarian.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: History; Politics; Reference; Society
KEYWORDS: costs; crime; dutch; pot
http://weekendlibertarian.blogspot.com/2011/06/dutch-admission-marijuana-isnt-so-soft.html
1 posted on 06/28/2011 4:10:43 PM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: AustralianConservative
Ooooh people exercising freedom about what they close to ingest
what a concept
2 posted on 06/28/2011 4:15:41 PM PDT by jrg
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To: jrg
Folks freely choosing to ingest is just one side of the puzzle. It'd be an easier sell if those same folks paid their own way through the rehab clinics.

In 1997, there was a 25 percent increase in the number of registered cannabis addicts receiving treatment for their habit, as compared to a mere 3 percent rise in cases of alcohol abuse.

3 posted on 06/28/2011 4:28:54 PM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: AustralianConservative

Libertarian god of recreational drugs ping!


4 posted on 06/28/2011 4:30:11 PM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: AustralianConservative

It would be nice if the article had quantified the increase in “attacks on family businesses.” I suspect that the real problem is simply the increased medical expenses the state has to pay. If that is the case then the problem is with the welfare state rather than the drug laws.

I wonder how the negative economic impact of legal canibus use compares to the cost (on a per captia basis) of the police state the US has created to combat drugs.


5 posted on 06/28/2011 4:30:15 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: All

this thread will get good soon....popcorn....


6 posted on 06/28/2011 4:31:00 PM PDT by Maverick68
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To: RightOnTheBorder

“It would be nice if the article had quantified the increase in “attacks on family businesses.””

I’d guess more like shoplifting, vandalism, panhandling.

It’s a GUESS, no, I have no empirical evidence!


7 posted on 06/28/2011 4:36:36 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: AustralianConservative

“Now, a Dutch commission has found that hashish and marijuana on sale in the Netherlands contain around 18 percent of THC, the main psychoactive substance, and advised the health minister that anything above 15 percent put drugs on a par with heroin or cocaine. “

At what percent does alcohol become on a par with heroin or cocaine?


8 posted on 06/28/2011 4:36:57 PM PDT by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: AustralianConservative

“...anything above 15 percent put drugs on a par with heroin or cocaine.”

As someone who did a lot of stupid stuff in young adulthood, I found cocaine to be the mildest of the drugs, at least from a mental standpoint. You can certainly disguise it much more easily than marijuana. Acid was the worst of the drugs I tried. Never tried heroin.


9 posted on 06/28/2011 4:37:00 PM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: jrg

Just as long as taxpayers don’t have to give them welfare, healthcare and fund their drugs as part of government “rehab”. Oh and that they are adults.


10 posted on 06/28/2011 4:42:34 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: wolfman23601
As someone who did a lot of stupid stuff in young adulthood, I found cocaine to be the mildest of the drugs, at least from a mental standpoint. You can certainly disguise it much more easily than marijuana. Acid was the worst of the drugs I tried. Never tried heroin.

Barack, is that you?

11 posted on 06/28/2011 5:04:41 PM PDT by foobarred (My post is less racist than your teleprompter.)
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To: wolfman23601

Never tried heroin, never wanted to. Too many of my friends from my high school days did and most of them are dead these thirty years now. Me and acid became fast friends. Too fast. Had to give that up a long time ago. Don’t miss it.


12 posted on 06/28/2011 5:07:58 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: wolfman23601
As someone who did a lot of stupid stuff in young adulthood, I found cocaine to be the mildest of the drugs, at least from a mental standpoint. You can certainly disguise it much more easily than marijuana.

As somebody that also walked on the edge a bit, I have to say that is, without a doubt, the most ridiculous assertion ever said, thought, or written.

I just never recall a pothead suffering a spontaneous bloody nose in a meeting, or flying into a sweaty incoherent rage, or having to excuse themselves to ride out heart palpitations, or turn into a mean bastard for no apparent reason and actually believe they are being charming, or crawl around on the floor looking for that last tiny bit that may have fallen, or be unable to speak because their throat was too numb, or show up for work on Monday not having slept since Thursday, or bankrupting themselves in a matter of weeks and turning to crime to get a fix, or have one big nostril, or...

Other than possible odor of smoke or glassy eyes, what noticeable symptom is there that somebody has been smoking pot? Strait people eat Doritos and lay around watching TV too.

13 posted on 06/28/2011 6:53:34 PM PDT by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: RightOnTheBorder

So the cost of rehab versus the costs of police enforcement kind of equal out:?


14 posted on 06/28/2011 7:00:39 PM PDT by Shamrock-DW
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To: jrg

“Ooooh people exercising freedom about what they close to ingest what a concept”

Freely? Are these the welfare-dependent drug addicts who “freely” clog up hospitals? What a concept.


15 posted on 06/28/2011 7:03:42 PM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: jrg

Netherlands is your brain.

Congress is your brain on drugs.


16 posted on 06/28/2011 7:10:15 PM PDT by DPMD (~)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

My background is Dutch. Actually, the crime issue has been reported for some time and it would be impossible b/c of word limits, to document every rise, although I plan to post more crime related facts here at a later date, for those interested.

Even some posts in the New York Times concede this.

That said, you sound rational. The true believers are scared of facts. Juts an observation: In the name of “liberty” some American “libertarians” have a history of censoring crime statistics and siding with criminals over police, for theological reasons.

Drug liberalism costs more than a real war of drugs for sure (not that there is a real war on drugs in America). Some of your prisons look like hotels. Give me a budget and I’ll cut down prison expenses, Victorian-period style. And what’s with these open borders, soft sentences, and “therapy” for users? Good Lord.


17 posted on 06/28/2011 7:17:03 PM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: APatientMan

Good question – although three wrongs never make a right. There’s a difference between alcohol use in moderation and alcohol abuse. With the other drugs, the brain chemistry issues are so dangerous, that even infrequent use can lead to mental illnesses.


18 posted on 06/28/2011 7:19:26 PM PDT by AustralianConservative
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To: AustralianConservative

“Drug liberalism costs more than a real war of drugs for sure”

That may indeed be the case, I posed the question because I truly don’t know the answer. For all the junk studies my government pays for, you would think someone would have looked at the numbers by now.


19 posted on 06/28/2011 8:15:26 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: Shamrock-DW

“So the cost of rehab versus the costs of police enforcement kind of equal out?”

That was my line of thinking, except to compare apples to apples the rehab clinic would have to kick in your door and shoot your dog. :-p


20 posted on 06/28/2011 8:17:18 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: AustralianConservative
Now, a Dutch commission has found that hashish and marijuana on sale in the Netherlands contain around 18 percent of THC, the main psychoactive substance, and advised the health minister that anything above 15 percent put drugs on a par with heroin or cocaine.

That is such nonsense. The idea that the potency of dope changes its essential nature to something like cocaine could only be believed by somebody that has never used either.

Yep, in the old days pot didn't tend to be as strong as now. So back then, kids took 6 hits to get to the exact same place they get now on 2. And not a single one of them ever suffered a heart attack or respiratory failure in the process, then or now.

Silly refer madness never goes completely away. Some people just seem unable to cope with varying dangers associated with varying substances.

The ability for cocaine, heroine, and other hard drugs to severely damage or end a life in a short time is undeniable. You just can't say that about pot without looking foolish trying. So you are reduced to:

"It will make you nuts, seiously. And did you heart that somebody said that crime went up somewhere once in Holland? Really, it did. Can't tie any particular crime to any particular pothead, but stats are stats. And worst of all, of you keep toking like that for 30 years you will get sick and die in another 30 years maybe, maybe not. Oh and did I mention you might be lazy, live in your mom's basement, and have a loser job? That sure beats slab at the morgue that other drugs send you to. But still, it's just as bad because my anti-drug feelings insist that drugs are drugs, so it must be."

21 posted on 06/28/2011 10:16:42 PM PDT by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: AustralianConservative
Now for some crime facts:

"Approximately 170 murders were committed in the Netherlands in 2010, a slight decrease from 2009."

http://www.denhaag.nl/de/to/Population-of-The-Hague-rising.htm

That works out to a murder rate of just over 1 per 100,000 population. Compare that to the US murder rate of 5 per 100,000

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

__________________________________________

Let's look at Amsterdam:

"In Amsterdam the number of murders decreased from 32 in 2009 to 16 in 2010..."

http://www.denhaag.nl/de/to/Population-of-The-Hague-rising.htm

With a population of about 730,000, that works out to a murder rate of about 2.2/100,000. For comparison, San Jose has consistently been ranked among the safest cities over 500,000 in the US. According to city-data.com, its murder rate for 2009 was 2.6/100,000.

__________________________________________

Two questions:

1. Would you rather a loved one walked through Amsterdam, or through a randomly chosen American city over 500,000?

2. You never answered my question on how you justify support for federal laws based on the New Deal Commerce Clause, after claiming to have studied the Constitution. Would you do so now?

22 posted on 06/29/2011 1:52:55 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H
And this:

Record low murder rate once again

2 January 2008

AMSTERDAM - 147 murders were committed in the Netherlands last year, one fewer than in 2006 and therefore a record low, according to the annual report from Elsevier.

http://mlvb.net/www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/Record-low-murder-rate-once-again_1276.html

23 posted on 06/29/2011 2:02:49 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H
The preceding URL was the mobilized version. The regular version is:

http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/Record-low-murder-rate-once-again_1276.html

24 posted on 06/29/2011 2:09:50 AM PDT by Ken H
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