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Are you an envirnonmentalist or a conservationist?
Red State Zombie ^ | July 2, 2011 | Red State Zombie

Posted on 07/02/2011 9:56:50 AM PDT by Gum Shoe

I remember taking a forestry class my freshman year of college. The curriculum, presented by a veteran instructor from the California Department of Forestry, covered several related topics that included ecology, biology, life cycles, wild-land fire control, conservation, and commerce based on those natural resources. I never heard the associate professor use the word "environment" or "environmentalist" during the course. Granted, it was years ago, and course outlines do change over time as new information on any given subject becomes available. But, the disconnect suggests the environmentalist movement is a recent concoction that has little basis in traditional resource management and everything to do do with political manipulation and empowerment.

From my experience, most environmentalists seem to be liberal socialists. Their champions are people like Al Gore, and Van Jones. Both communists. So, what attracts communists to environmentalism? I think they have a tremendous conflict with the concept of private property. Long standing traditions in The United States of America allow for private citizens to own property. Private property is a cornerstone of the American experience. Environmentalism is the only way to attack private property ownership that allows sufficient cover. Since most American communist politicians hate to be outed, environmentalism is the only game in town. They have realized you don't have to own the property to control it. You only need passage of some environmental "protection" laws whitewashed with some noble verbiage, and there you have it. You have exclusive control - or benefit - without the obligations of purchase.

The liberal socialists have pieced together a coalition of dupes/useful idiots to this end. In addition to the hardcore communist leadership element of the environmentalist movement, their coalition includes those who worship the creation rather than the Creator, sycophants in it for the power and/or money, and some decent people that truly believe they are doing right by the world in which they live. Hey, who wouldn't want clean air and water?

The point to this rant is this: there is a stark difference between environmentalism and conservationism. I can comfortably state I appreciate clean air and water. I enjoy a beautiful mountain or coastal vista as much as the next guy. I believe God gave the earth, and rights to its bounty, to His ultimate creation : humanity. I'm not willing to place a fundamental right like property ownership, also an inalienable right, on the alter of some socialist, neo-religion like environmentalism. So, my question to you dear reader is this: are you a conservationist, or an environmentalist?


TOPICS: Government; Politics; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: algore; communism; conservation; environment; forestry; naturalresources; nature; privateproperty; religion; sierraclub; teaparty; vanjones

1 posted on 07/02/2011 9:56:58 AM PDT by Gum Shoe
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To: Gum Shoe

Are you an envirnonmentalist or a conservationist?
***Yes


2 posted on 07/02/2011 10:06:36 AM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Gum Shoe

I’m a ruralist. I live in the country because I love nature.


3 posted on 07/02/2011 10:08:14 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Gum Shoe

All environmentalism and things Green are Communist.


4 posted on 07/02/2011 10:11:40 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: screaminsunshine
All environmentalism and things Green are Communist.

Ya beat me to it.

5 posted on 07/02/2011 10:13:18 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Holy flippin' crap, Sarah rocks the world!)
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To: Gum Shoe
I could have written this.

In fact, a couple of months ago, I posted something similar (but far more succinct) about these two words.

Out in the field, these two terms are NOT interchangeable. The Left really does gravitate to the word "environmentalist" while those on the Right consistently describe themselves as "conservationists."

It may sound funny, but whenever I hear fellow biology/wildlife field workers describe themselves as conservationists, I know I'm in good company.

I know the "code." :^)

6 posted on 07/02/2011 10:17:37 AM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Gum Shoe
I think planting over 8000 evergreen tree seedlings on two separate pieces of vacant land about covers that question. Also, we have several bluebird and purple martin houses on our land.

We love nature. With that said, we have no problem cutting a tree for firewood.

7 posted on 07/02/2011 10:19:03 AM PDT by lysie
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To: Flycatcher
I leave the old dock posts in the water because they draw wildlife. There's an old willow tree laying in the water right next to it that collects turtles by the dozen.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
8 posted on 07/02/2011 10:21:55 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: cripplecreek
Wow!

Is that the view from your place?

Stunning!

9 posted on 07/02/2011 10:24:14 AM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: lysie

I let maple seedlings grow in my yard for a few years. Then I plant them in more desirable spots or give them to others to plant.


10 posted on 07/02/2011 10:24:46 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: cripplecreek

Me too. Can’t stand cities and avoid them like the plague. I have my 6.4 acres and I keep it Elven (think Black Forest).


11 posted on 07/02/2011 10:25:13 AM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: Gum Shoe; All
I'm old enough to well remember the word conservationist. I was born and raised in the country. I was born in the latter days of the so called great depression. We practiced "conservation".
I remember too when the word envirnonmentalist was "coined".

The "conservation" movement was born of the great dust bowl era. Conservation was useful and practical ways of taking care of the land. Contour Farming, planting trees, hedge rows. Doing things to prevent the wind from blowing the top soil away. To prevent another "dust bowl". Having lived in Texas all these years I can tell you a thing or two about dust storms. Believe me.

The envirnonmentalists have a totally different agenda. Truth is they don't give a tinkers damn about the environment or the "conservation" thereof. It's all about "control" with them.
They're a bunch of control freak idiots.

12 posted on 07/02/2011 10:25:49 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Flycatcher

Yeah and I live in the most heavily populated part of Michigan. (The southern two teirs of counties)


13 posted on 07/02/2011 10:26:28 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Peter from Rutland
"I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts; but the useful ones can thrive elsewhere; and less perfection in the others, with more health, virtue and freedom, would be my choice."

-Thomas Jefferson (Envirocommies call him the father of urban sprawl)
14 posted on 07/02/2011 10:31:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Fiddlstix

Back in the days when soil conservation was developed in ernest.

Today farmers still practice it because its the smart thing to do.


15 posted on 07/02/2011 10:33:34 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: cripplecreek

When we bought our property 20 years ago the previous owner kept it clear with the exception of a few maple, white birch, poplar, cherry, and other various trees. We keep about 3-4 acres clear and the rest we have let grow wild.


16 posted on 07/02/2011 10:36:08 AM PDT by lysie
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To: Fiddlstix
The envirnonmentalists have a totally different agenda. Truth is they don't give a tinkers damn about the environment or the "conservation" thereof. It's all about "control" with them.

You're absolutely right.

I can tolerate (barely) their religious fervor over "Mother Earth" and their tree-hugging antics, but I can't abide their truly criminal disregard for private property rights.

This article is well-stated. Behind nearly every fervent environmentalist is a neo-communist bent on eradicating private property and private property rights.

And they smell...!!

(Man, I could tell you stories...)

17 posted on 07/02/2011 10:38:44 AM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Flycatcher

Our local environmentalist group. (they use the word “conservation”)

http://www.rvlt.org/

The legal spiderweb they ensnare people in. You own the land and you pay taxes on it but you can’t do anything with it. Also, the agreement still stands after a sale (Effectively rendering the land unsalable)

http://www.rvlt.org/RVLTeasementOct2004.html


18 posted on 07/02/2011 10:43:22 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: cripplecreek
Thanks for that. What an insidious group with an insidious agenda. Tax-exempt too, I noticed.

But, seriously, what kind of private property owner would succumb to this siren? And why?

19 posted on 07/02/2011 10:49:07 AM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Gum Shoe
The term "environmentalism" has been co-opted by communists because it a nice sounding word that people who aren't very interested can apply to whatever their vision of clean air and water might be.

In the meantime the liberals are using the scam to erode our rights and eventually take control of both water and private property.

When you hear; environmentalism, sustainability, public-private partnerships, precautionary principle or, no net loss - learn to think AGENDA 21. This isn't just conspiracy talk!

20 posted on 07/02/2011 10:56:08 AM PDT by Baynative (Truth is treason in an empire of lies)
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To: cripplecreek
Today farmers still practice it because its the smart thing to do.

Yes they do. It's because of the lessons learned in the dust bowl days. Thank God they learned well too.

21 posted on 07/02/2011 11:12:48 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Flycatcher
.....Behind nearly every fervent environmentalist is a neo-communist bent on eradicating private property and private property rights.

Amen! Brother! Preach It!
That's what it's about and that's all it's about.
They want nothing more than to destroy the greatness of America

22 posted on 07/02/2011 11:15:39 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Gum Shoe
Are you an envirnonmentalist or a conservationist?

I keep my house, yard and vehicles clean and enjoy taking naps so I imagine I am both.

23 posted on 07/02/2011 11:17:39 AM PDT by upsdriver (to undo the damage the "intellectual elites" have done. . . . . Sarah Palin for President!)
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To: Flycatcher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADN85Hi41L8&feature=player_embedded#at=11 This is a meeting of the new “Foothills Legacy” program - an attempt to place up to 3.4 million acres of CA foothills in Conservation Easements under the USFWS.

Here is Agenda 21 http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/res_agenda21_01.shtml

1995 GBA - Global Biodiversity Assessment http://www.freedom.org/reports/gba10.htm (WWF, ICUN how to implement biodiversity treaty. Last 200 pages Section 13 deals with “system of protected areas” (Core areas, buffer zones) Page 993 Wildlands Project is central theme of “protected areas” ; Global Biodiversity Assessment: Section 10 (A condensation by Henry Lamb and Dr. Michael Coffman) http://freedom.org/reports/gba10.htm

Here is a full page of links to implementation of Agenda 21, the Convention on Climate Change, Sustainable Development from the national to the CA state level.
http://users.sisqtel.net/armstrng/agenda21.htm

Caution, you are likely to be overwhelmed as to far into the fabric of our government and society this has spread.


24 posted on 07/02/2011 11:23:39 AM PDT by marsh2
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To: marsh2; george76; jazusamo; girlangler
Thanks for those links.

Thanks to you and many other great FReepers, I've learned a lot about Agenda 21 and the insidious creep of socialism across the nation.

It makes my blood boil that there is a whole generation of young lemmings falling for this neo-communist, anti-private property global movement.

We need to expose their motives and publicize the tactics of Agenda 21 as much as possible to counterbalance the debate.

Thanks for your post!

25 posted on 07/02/2011 11:33:00 AM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Gum Shoe

Conservation in the past meant ‘stewardship’ of the land which entailed use of the land.
Conservation these days means locking something away so that humans don’t touch it.


26 posted on 07/02/2011 11:38:52 AM PDT by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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To: Gum Shoe
To me, “conservationism” always meant diligent stewardship or management while “preservationism” describes a policy of letting nature take its own course, even when that means no clearing of brush or dead trees and forest fires or mosquito swamps regularly ensue.

“Environmentalism” seems more and more associated with the unscientific junk science creed that everything resulting from industry and civilization is a blight that should be taxed or made illegal.

Odd how the same or similar words mean different things to different people.

27 posted on 07/02/2011 12:09:20 PM PDT by Mobties (Reduce the government footprint! Let the markets work!)
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To: Gum Shoe

I remember quite clearly when the enviromentalist movement started in the early ‘70s when the city hippies started backpacking in the Sierra calling themselves “ecologists.”


28 posted on 07/02/2011 12:10:41 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: Flycatcher; Gum Shoe; All

Excellent article and great posts on the thread. Not much can be added, I’ll just say this.

Conservationists - Conservatives/Caretakers of private and public lands.

Environmentalists - Leftists/Communists denying use of lands both private and public.

Thanks for the ping, Fly.


29 posted on 07/02/2011 12:12:21 PM PDT by jazusamo (His [Obama's] political base---the young, the left and the thoughtless: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Gum Shoe

I had a conversation with a US Senator on talk radio once on this very subject. He was a conservative and said “we’re all environmentalists.” He was ignorant of the crucial differences. I like to think I educated him a little bit.

I’ve planted a few hundred trees, practice a leave no trace outdoor lifestyle and have no problem chopping down a tree or using any of the resources God gives us.


30 posted on 07/02/2011 12:15:06 PM PDT by cyclotic (Boy Scouts-Developing Leaders in a World of Followers.)
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To: cyclotic

Love the sig. Everything about love of nature and conservation, I learned in the Boy Scouts of America. We’d gather dead wood for campfires, but we’d also police our campsites before leaving, making sure to take any litter (whether ours or not) with us. If we missed 1 piece of garbage, our Scoutmaster would make us line back up and do it again. We had trail maintenance weekends, clean-ups of local cemeteries (some of which pre-date our country and were woefully overgrown), raise money by collecting newspapers back before every city started doing it.

Ironically some of the kids who used to poke fun at us as kids now go on long hikes and camp outs and post on Facebook or email about it like they are doing something unique.

I just smile and think “Dude, I’ve been doing that since I was 11.”


31 posted on 07/02/2011 12:28:59 PM PDT by Betis70 (Bruins!)
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To: Inyo-Mono; All
I remember quite clearly when the enviromentalist movement started in the early ‘70s when the city hippies started backpacking in the Sierra calling themselves “ecologists.”

That's the way I remember it. The first time I ever heard or read the words ecology or ecologist was in the 70's.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was the Sierra Club that was the big "promoters" of the so called ecology movement of the time, Earth day and all that crap.
Truth be known the Sierra Club should have to change the name to "Sierra Communists Club".
Truth in advertizing and all that.

32 posted on 07/02/2011 12:45:10 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Fiddlstix

http://www.unesco.de/fileadmin/medien/Dokumente/unesco-heute/uh2-07-p13-15.pdf

UNESCO’s Man and the Biosphere (MAB)
Programme was established in 1970.
The idea originated at the ‘Biosphere
Conference’ in September 1968 in Paris,
the official title of which was ‘Scientific
basis for Rational Use and Conservation
of the Resources of the Biosphere’. It
was organised by UNESCO in cooperation
with the World Conservation Union
(IUCN) and the International Biological
Programme (IBP).

The biggest environmental player known in the US was World Wildlife Federation. 1980 ICUN World Conservation Strategy; The World Conservation Strategy was formulated by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) in cooperation with the U.N. Environmental Program (UNEP) and World Wildlife Fund (WWF), FAO and UNESCO. http://data.iucn.org/dbtw-wpd/edocs/WCS-004.pdf

I do know the Sierra Club was invlved by 1991 and “Caring for the Earth” http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~vern/caring/care-earth5.txt You can see their analysis here: http://rcellarius.us/Caring_Retrospective.pps#319,13,Caring for the Earth. A Strategy for Sustainable Living (1991)


33 posted on 07/02/2011 1:09:58 PM PDT by marsh2
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To: Fiddlstix

You are correct. The Sierra Club did promote the “ecology” movement big time.


34 posted on 07/02/2011 1:12:17 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (My greatest fear is that when I'm gone my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them)
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To: marsh2

Thanks for the heads up. It’s appreciated.


35 posted on 07/02/2011 1:28:20 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Inyo-Mono
Yeah. I was pretty sure Sierra Club are big time promoters.
As far as I'm concerned Sierra Club is a bunch of elitist snob marxists goons.
Sierra Club "loves" nature just about as much as I'd love to take a swim in a septic tank.
Idiots.
36 posted on 07/02/2011 1:33:40 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Gum Shoe
The environmentalists are

1) those that have an irrational fear and hatred of economic progress
2) commies
3) those that accept the anti-man premise that nature possesses intrinsic value apart from all contribution to human life and well being and that man is evil and capitalism is evil because they destroy nature

37 posted on 07/02/2011 2:31:00 PM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: Betis70

I was never a Boy Scout but I made sure my sons got involved. Fantastic organization. I tell the boys in our troop that they will get to do stuff most boys nowadays can’t even dream of doing.

We just moved and had an opportunity to start a new troop. Except for three boys, all are brand new. On our first campout, all their meals were cooked on the campfire.


38 posted on 07/02/2011 7:34:58 PM PDT by cyclotic (Boy Scouts-Developing Leaders in a World of Followers.)
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To: cyclotic

My dad only got to Tenderfoot, but his sons (3) all got Eagle Scout. He was Scoutmaster for the early part of my BSA experience, and I ‘tagged’ along for many of the camp outs and wilderness trips my older brothers went on.

I had the privilege of going to Philmont with my dad, and also a National Jamboree in Fort AP Hill VA. Two of the highlights of my BSA experience.


39 posted on 07/02/2011 9:58:14 PM PDT by Betis70 (Bruins!)
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To: Flycatcher

I just returned from the Gila National Forest a few minutes ago.

Up in Catron County I had a eye opening view of what “environmentalism” is all about. Burned forest and wildlife habitat, with so much fuel on the ground more catastophic fires are coming.

When you look at all the wildlife refuges, state forest lands you see first hand what was purchased by conservationists.

Hunters and anglers are conservationists. And you are right Flycatcher, the new environmentalist is a anti private property, anti rural, we know better than you peasants, commie.


40 posted on 07/04/2011 3:09:20 PM PDT by girlangler (Fish Fear Me)
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To: girlangler
Glad to hear you're back safe and sound from the Gila NF. I just got back from 11 days out in the wilderness too. My birding job took me from Death Valley to the White Mtns to the Toiyabes to the Snakes and finally to the magnificent Rubies. Up in the Rubies, we all saw Himalayan snowcocks, black rosy-finches, and a couple of Rocky Mountain goats.

Nice, eh?

Thanks for all your pings. I'll be home now for several days so I should be able to catch up and get up to speed.

Now I must go contribute to the FReepathon!

All the best!

41 posted on 07/15/2011 1:44:18 PM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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