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Do like the Germans do, try and become Vikings!
07/31/2011 | WesternCulture

Posted on 07/30/2011 4:30:49 PM PDT by WesternCulture

To anyone sane of mind, it's pretty obvious that something, basically, is wrong about the way large parts of European and American economy is run today.

Scandinavia is an exception - and a bigger one than most people are aware of.

Our German neighbors are beginning to realize this and lately Chancellor Merkel have been very successful in restoring economic growth on German soil. Presently, the German economy, after 20 years of a sad standstill, is growing at a pace nearing that of Sweden.

Scandinavia (including Finland) taken as a whole is today the World's 10th largest economy despite it's 25 million inhabitants.

Many would say Scandinavia today leads or places itself among the World leaders of the Planet in areas like IT (Ericsson, Sony Ericsson, Nokia), the automotive business (Volvo, Volvo Cars, Scania), general/infrastructural/power engineering (Swiss/Swedish ABB), medical/biotech (British-Swedish Astra Zeneca), appliance/consumer electronics (Electrolux), home products (IKEA etc) and then there's mining, retailing and not the least brewing giants over here like LKAB, H&M and Carlsberg.

Scandinavia is not rich and successful only due to North Sea oil.

Something of much greater importance is our ability to handle national wealth. Probably, this matter is related to the fact that Denmark and Sweden are very old and homogeneous societies (contrary to USA, Germany and Italy). Norway, Iceland and Finland have not been sovereign nations for a long time, but have always nurtured a very strong national identity.

Today, few nations are supressed by other nations. Instead, millions of people in developed nations are supressed by their banks and have their futures ruined by their own governments.

Back in the early 1990's, my nation, Sweden, encountered more or less the same disastrous economical situation America and most of Europe of today does; zero economic growth, mass unemployment and huge national debt.

It doesn't have to be like this.

Nations can find their way back.

Quite contrary to the traditional image of Sweden/Scandinavia, Northenmost Europe of today is a great place for running a business and building a future for families and individuals.

Please don't get me wrong. Scandinavia is far from perfect.

But although there, undeniably, are many Socialist, nannystate traits to the Swedish/Scandinavian society of today, I'd say we are done with Socialism as a country/corner of the Earth and are beginning to realize how much is to be gained from promoting true Capitalism.

More specifically, this is what Sweden is doing rigt and most other well developed countries are doing wrong:

1. Paying national debts (America and most of Europe does not, instead they rely in the ridiculous idea of having the strongest "World currency" - money is worth nothing if you don't have the brute production and trade force to back it up..)

2. Educating its work force (In this area, large parts of Europe and America display huge problems)

3. Investing in infrastructure (dito)

4. Strongly restricting and limiting government expenditure (dito)

5. Taxing consumption, employment, house ownership heavily but NOT income (dito)

6. Investing large sums in R&D (Germany, France, Britain and America do invest a lot of money in R&D, but Sweden invests way more per capita)

2 of the 15 richest men on Earth are Swedes (Sweden has a population of a mere 9 million).

The $30 000 (MSRP) Volvo V70/XC70 is the average car in my country. This really says it all about Swedish standard of living. Genuine poverty does not exist - but perhaps some would say our material wealth is yet another sign of wicked Nordic Socialism:)

IMO, Sweden is a nation conceived in the Lutheran tradition of entrepreneurship, hard work, law and progress.

This has very little to do with the kind of political ideology that led to the national disaster in neighboring Russia during its Soviet, Socialist past.

By learning from Nordic ability to build successful Capitalist companies and productive societal structures, America as well as Continental Europe could find its way back to Protestant ethics and manage to avoid echoing that tragic, big government Eastern European fiasco of the last century.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; Government; Society
KEYWORDS: biggovernment; budget; capitalism; denmark; economy; europe; finland; germany; iceland; nationalprogress; norway; russia; scandinavia; socialism; soviet; sweden

1 posted on 07/30/2011 4:30:57 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

These clips concerning the phenomena of the Swedish economy are educative and worth watching, even if they do not provide any miracle cure for its American or European counterparts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwIrlE0dax4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z7qmgLiUdw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scBCqUmI-ic&feature=related


2 posted on 07/30/2011 4:31:30 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

Having a relatively homogenous population helps.


3 posted on 07/30/2011 4:33:12 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

There is a growing muzzie population in Sweden, but I think it’s still under 10%.


4 posted on 07/30/2011 4:36:38 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Tijeras_Slim

True, Sweden has to nip that problem in the bud.


5 posted on 07/30/2011 4:37:56 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: WesternCulture
Swedish Military Expenditures as Percentage of GDP
6 posted on 07/30/2011 4:39:02 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: WesternCulture

What steps is Sweden taking to solve the multiculturalism problem. I saw a clip of Jesse Jackson saying that Sweden is destined to become multicultural. It appears as if even the Swedes don’t want to be Vikings.


7 posted on 07/30/2011 4:39:23 PM PDT by Protoss
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To: dfwgator

I’d also like to know if the Scandanavian countries have as much “regional” diversity as we have.


8 posted on 07/30/2011 4:42:07 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: WesternCulture
Chart of Finnish, Nordic, Swedish and American Military Expenditures
9 posted on 07/30/2011 4:42:40 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: Tijeras_Slim

Malmo,and this was 2 years go.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/556299.aspx


10 posted on 07/30/2011 4:44:38 PM PDT by Mears
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To: WesternCulture

Yet more boasting from an almost irrelevant country called Sweden.


11 posted on 07/30/2011 4:45:53 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Sweden - one of the next Muslim countries)
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To: WesternCulture
First off, "disposable personal income", a really big item in most parts of the world, is lower in Sweden than in many US states. Some time back it was lower than Mississippi.

Now you may not value personal disposable income, but that's a personal problem.

Regarding the Danes, within the last 200 years well over half of them emigrated to America. Regarding the Swedes, within that same period well over half of them emigrated to America. Regarding the Finns, within that same period probably 90% of them emigrated to America or any other place they could escape to. Fortunately for them they have some really hot women or the Russians would have found it necessary to import more Pomars to repopulate the place.

So, why am I bringing up "the last 200 years" ~ lots of stuff goes on in 200 years anywhere. But rarely does the formerly RICHEST EMPIRE ON EARTH ~ the Swedish Empire ~ with all the wealthiest people on the planet ~ just wither away and disappear.

America 200 years ago was, for all practical purposes, a Third World Hell Hole with fairly democratic government at the local level and something more like a kleptocracy at the top. My goodness, half the country had SLAVERY!

Today, we got the big bucks and the big ammo, and Scandinavia is #10, but it's still on the way back up!

Obviously using a long term point of view gives the advantage to America, but it also reminds us of the fact you can be up, and you can be down, and in the end no one has all the really pat answers to that.

Regarding homogeneity ~ we ain't got none, don't want none, couldn't force us on it without some serious killin' in fact.

I don't see that in the long term homogeneity is an advantage or a disadvantage. Besides, Scandinavia is really not homogenous. First off you still got 11 Sa'ami tribes ~ they know who they are even if you don't ~ and come the next ice age (which could start this winter for all anyone knows) their marginal advantage in the cold could well lay Europe as a whole open to a quick Sa'ami takeover!

Finland appears homgenous ~ but the Swedish speaking minority know who they are and when they emigrated to America they set up their own synod. Same with the Finns. They set up their own synod. And the Sa'ami? The greater number escaped to America (or were brought here as slaves by the Swedes) early enough (mid-1600s) that they were able to retain much of their pre-Christian culture (see Santa Claus, et al.)

Norway is not homogenous ~ they are simply nuts. Cops without guns? Bizarre!~ And Sweden? They only imagine they recreated Scania in the Swedish image ~ there are ill feelings lurking just below a deceptively peaceful surface ~

To the degree Sweden found a secret to building wealth, they figured out that if you tax the rich at high enough level they will move everything abroad! That taxes are lower now is no guarantee they will be in the future.

12 posted on 07/30/2011 4:51:59 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: vbmoneyspender

Take a look at relative military expenditures to GDP over the last 200 years. Try 300 years!


13 posted on 07/30/2011 4:55:03 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Maybe the time is ripe for the Poles and Lithuanians to exact their long-awaited revenge on the Swedes. ;)


14 posted on 07/30/2011 4:56:15 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: WesternCulture

How can there be a thread with references to ‘German’ and ‘Viking’ w’out a link to Techno Viking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYKH5S93hT0


15 posted on 07/30/2011 4:56:18 PM PDT by Fantasywriter
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To: WesternCulture

Cue the kittens...


16 posted on 07/30/2011 4:57:35 PM PDT by Happy Rain (Liberals and Muslims today are like the Nazis and Communists of 1940--"pals" for now.)
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To: dfwgator

The Norwegians aren’t too fond of Swedes either.


17 posted on 07/30/2011 4:58:45 PM PDT by Mears
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To: dfwgator

They are a socialist states getting infested with islamism. The only reason they look wealthy YET is they do not fund their military the way nations like US do.
Good old guns and butter theory.
NATO made America into anti-Empire there the ‘metropoly’ has the burden while ‘colonies’ enjoys free defence.


18 posted on 07/30/2011 5:03:01 PM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: muawiyah
The modern European welfare state exists for one reason - the American military. Without our security umbrella, the Europeans would have to spend a whole helluva of a lot more money defending themselves.

European vs. American Military Expenditures

19 posted on 07/30/2011 5:03:18 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: Tijeras_Slim
“There is a growing muzzie population in Sweden, but I think it’s still under 10%”

- Yes, it's still under 10%.

The ethnic group displaying the highest birth rates in Sweden is the vast, ethnically homogeneous, urban middle class.

By the way, the highest birth rates in Scandinavia's largest city, Stockholm, are found in the upper middle class area of Södermalm, while some of the lowest figures in this department in all of Scandinavia are featured by Rinkeby/Kista, a part of the city housing a large Muslim population.

For some reason, Swedes who have established themselves in society tend to reproduce a lot while those who fail to do so have fewer children.

I'm not sure, but my guess is that secularized Muslims who adapt to Western ways of life are better at building happy homes and producing offspring over here than uneducated, backwards Muslims who refuse to integrate with Western Civilization.

Concerning the Swedish baby boom of today:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2738546/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2328696/posts

These are good news, but I'm not saying Islam doesn't constitute a threat to Western Civilization. It sure does.

There is no reason why Sweden or any other part of the Christian World should allow mass Muslim immigration.

20 posted on 07/30/2011 5:04:46 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: Tijeras_Slim
“There is a growing muzzie population in Sweden, but I think it’s still under 10%”

- Yes, it's still under 10%.

The ethnic group displaying the highest birth rates in Sweden is the vast, ethnically homogeneous, urban middle class.

By the way, the highest birth rates in Scandinavia's largest city, Stockholm, are found in the upper middle class area of Södermalm, while some of the lowest figures in this department in all of Scandinavia are featured by Rinkeby/Kista, a part of the city housing a large Muslim population.

For some reason, Swedes who have established themselves in society tend to reproduce a lot while those who fail to do so have fewer children.

I'm not sure, but my guess is that secularized Muslims who adapt to Western ways of life are better at building happy homes and producing offspring over here than uneducated, backwards Muslims who refuse to integrate with Western Civilization.

Concerning the Swedish baby boom of today:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2738546/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2328696/posts

These are good news, but I'm not saying Islam doesn't constitute a threat to Western Civilization. It sure does.

There is no reason why Sweden or any other part of the Christian World should allow mass Muslim immigration.

21 posted on 07/30/2011 5:04:56 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: dfwgator
I have some ancestors who have some connection to the Swedish Empire who have public plazas and statues dedicated to their memory ~ in Latvia and Estonia!

You'll find that the Poles and Lets don't necessary have all that much ill-will towards the Swedes either.

If anything, just about everybody in the region, even the Hungarians, continue to be dissatisfied with Sweden's performance in the 18th century ~ just horrid ~ and that led to the dissolution of the trade groups and higher economic levels achieved in the 16th and 17th centuries.

That was topped off when the Swedes had to give up Finland (then twice its present size) to the Czar of Russia as a personal holding. The 1800s proved to be a brutal period for everyone with famines and crop failures all over the place. That tends to blur the damage done to the Baltics with the fall of the Swedish Empire.

22 posted on 07/30/2011 5:05:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: WesternCulture

Swedes and Norwegians are pretty much bipolar brothers.
Swedes require all houses in a particular village are painted the same color.
Norwegians allow for variation in what color you paint your house.
Both are gentile, friendly and accommodating people.

Their only trouble is that that they have no strong beliefs in “anything” but rather in “everything”,

They would rather party and be polite but they never never stand on principal except that “anything rules”.

They make great employees because they are not expected to work hard or have “Definite” opinions on anything.

But they are great people to have as friends and to spend a pleasant evening with.


23 posted on 07/30/2011 5:05:55 PM PDT by jongaltsr (It)
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To: vbmoneyspender
I have a divided opinion on that ~ when Europeans arm themselves and defend themselves they have a tendency to engage in serious wars over minuscule advantages.

King Philippe (II, III) of Spain managed to buy 20 years of European peace with his Treaty of London that divided up North America into zones of influence and settlement.

That was just about the longest 20 years they'd had since maybe 400 BC.

Still didn't prevent more action against the Ottomans, but that was OUTSIDE the primary zone of European intrigue and combat.

The American and Russian occupation of much of Europe since 1945 has created the longest peacetime period ever known there.

24 posted on 07/30/2011 5:11:08 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: WesternCulture
Would it sound sarcastic if I was to say, "Gee, I really miss 'WesternCulture's' travelogue and sales pitch about Scandinavia"?

The potato mash finally got to you tonight, huh?

25 posted on 07/30/2011 5:11:43 PM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: muawiyah
“First off, “disposable personal income”, a really big item in most parts of the world, is lower in Sweden than in many US states. Some time back it was lower than Mississippi.”

- Heard that one before..

Do you seriously believe a corner of the World where people drive around in $30 000 cars and average families own two (very) well built homes even vaguely resembles the poorest parts of the US in terms of standard of living?

That description derives from, I'd say, dishonest studies and comparisons made at a point in time (some 8-10 years ago) when the US dollar was worth around 11 SEK. Today the USD is worth 6.27 SEK.

At that time, an average lunch set you back the equivalent 100 SEK in America while you would pay something like 60 SEK for (more or less) the same thing over here in Sweden.

If you wish to explore what Sweden looks like IRL, you could try this link:

http://www.hitta.se/LargeMap.aspx?start

26 posted on 07/30/2011 5:19:56 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: muawiyah
America 200 years ago was, for all practical purposes, a Third World Hell Hole

200 years ago every country in the world was a Third World Hell Hole. The United States however was comparatively a much better place to live. That's why people came here. Don't take my word for it though. Here's an excerpt from a study of the relative heights of Americans versus Europeans in the late 18th century:

Among the first startling revelations of this research program was the finding that the average height of soldiers who fought in the Revolutionary War was an astonishing 172.8 cm (68 inches), well above European standards for a very long time to come - even that of the aristocracy.

27 posted on 07/30/2011 5:23:07 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: WesternCulture

excellent post, thanks!

will comment when I return


28 posted on 07/30/2011 5:25:14 PM PDT by Enchante (Are there any honest politicians in Washington, DC??)
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To: muawiyah
Sokoloff and Villaflor’s result made it crystal clear that the low population density and abundant natural resources of the New World combined with the diligence, hence productivity, of the American population, conferred considerable – until then unknown - biological advantages on its inhabitants.4

Although these benefits may not have translated immediately into higher per-capita incomes per se, by the early national period, per capita income in the United States might well have exceed[ed] those then prevailing in the mother country (Prados de la Escosura, 2000; Steckel, 1999). Thus, very shortly after its founding, the U.S. population became not only the tallest, but also one of the richest in the world, and life expectancy, too, at least in New England was well above European norms.5

29 posted on 07/30/2011 5:33:16 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: WesternCulture

Well said. :) I need to visit Sweden sometime.


30 posted on 07/30/2011 5:51:38 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon (Light is fading to shadow, and casting its shroud over all we have known...)
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To: WesternCulture

Good info, and thanks as always.


31 posted on 07/30/2011 6:21:23 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Mears; dfwgator; WesternCulture; reaganaut

The Norwegians are just Swedes who talk funny!


32 posted on 07/30/2011 6:28:52 PM PDT by mrreaganaut (Lutheran predestined evangelism: "You know you're going to be Lutheran someday, so why not now?")
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To: WesternCulture
Yes ~ I believe that if the most common car in the country is a $30,000 vehicle that means you probably don't have all that many Escalades.

Hyundais are $19,000 these days ~ with 45 mpg too.

Individual Disposable Income counts for more than average price of a Volvo!

The point I made is that YOU USED TO BE #1 ~ in total national wealth, in average wealth per person, etc. Now you aren't.

33 posted on 07/30/2011 6:30:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: vbmoneyspender
Regarding average height of Americans in the early period, once the great famines began in Europe (1813 is the earliest major impact) people in the affected areas began fleeing to America.

NorthernScandinavia and NW Russia were the first places affected ~ and they were already the tallest people in the world (on average). Their transport to America should be reflected in the statistics of the day.

34 posted on 07/30/2011 6:35:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
The figures contained in that paper cover periods well before Napoleonic Wars. For example, the Revolutionary war was in 1776.

Review the paper and you will see that it is pretty well accepted among demographic researchers that starting in the colonial period, Americans were taller and lived longer than their counterparts in Europe.

I don't think there is any getting around the fact that from its very founding, America has been a better place to live, particularly if you're poor.

35 posted on 07/30/2011 6:48:22 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: vbmoneyspender
America was once described as the world's best country for poor people.

May well have always been true.

Regarding "tallness", that's somewhat related to protein consumption. The typical warrior member of the Iroquois League or the equivalent sector of the Mohican tribe was about seven feet tall.

You can imagine what those "average height" 5'2" Europeans thought when they first encountered those ol'boys.

It went something like this "I'm sure glad we invented guns first".

Still, American male average height declined from the 1820s through the Civil War as immigrants poured into the country.

Best not to trust the statistics from the good old days however.

36 posted on 07/30/2011 6:54:08 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: jongaltsr
Just a thought, but as someone of viking ancestry I have an idea...Scandinavians are suppressing their true nature. It is difficult to carve rapine, pillage, and plunder into the modern landscape.

First efforts will be clumsy.

37 posted on 07/30/2011 7:18:36 PM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: muawiyah
“YOU USED TO BE #1 ~ in total national wealth, in average wealth per person, etc.”

- If there ever was such a point in time, that time is now.

In the 1950’s, the average US family enjoyed a considerably higher material standard of living compared to a family in Sweden.

In the wake of the 18th century, Sweden was one of the poorest nations across Western Civilization. We exhausted ourselves giving Russia hell.

The triumph at Svensksund - our “Trafalgar” - fended off Russia's naval ambitions momentarily, but that victory also marked the very end of the Baltic Sea being a major part of World trade.

70 years later, Sweden managed to introduce Industrialism.

Russia did not and despite the ability of producing and exporting second rate weaponry to Muslim maniacs Russia still hasn't, really, entered the Industrial age.

Because of this major difference, Russia is today a loser in the World economic race, while Sweden, besides having stealth submarines and disposing of an assemblage of automotive production plants that, in theory, allows her to daily spew out incredible amounts of tanks, likely would be welcomed as a liberator by the Russian masses if she invaded Russia again.

Many Russians are d*mn tired of Moscow.

So are most of us Western Europeans..

38 posted on 07/30/2011 8:13:01 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: ColdSteelTalon
Well said. :) I need to visit Sweden sometime.

I just got back from IKEA, does that count?

39 posted on 07/30/2011 8:40:23 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: WesternCulture
Once Sweden had acquired FInland they had access to one of the planet's most easily mined and used source of iron. All along they'd had plenty of excess capacity for hydro-power (which in the age before electricity meant you could run mills of all kinds using pulleys).

A couple of centuries later when Sweden lost Finland to the Czar, the Czar had access to all that iron, and to the power which led directly to the construction of the Russian rail system.

Sweden would have had the manpower to deal effectively with Russia had they earlier reduced Poland-Lithuania to a colonial territory and rebuilt them from the bottom up INCLUDING imposition of Lutheranism.

They might still be chaffing under the collar but they'd speak Swedish and kvetch about the priest cutting his workhours a bit too tight. Alas, that's not how history worked out ~ and the fault was on the Swedish side ~ being too nice to the Poles. No wonder the Russians were encouraged to look to the West.

40 posted on 07/31/2011 7:17:34 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah; WesternCulture

I think perhaps the fault lay in failing to ally with Denmark in the Thirty Years War. Poland could have been pacified and Christina wouldn’t have had to die as a nun.


41 posted on 07/31/2011 8:51:05 AM PDT by mrreaganaut (The Union of Kalmar is more important to history than the European Union.)
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To: mrreaganaut
There were a number of wealthy families who functionally allied with Denmark and got back into the game in Finland through that connection.

Some of them made it to Alaska ~ then California ~ and unaccountably failed to find the gold (which even the Spanish failed to find).

42 posted on 07/31/2011 9:01:11 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: WesternCulture
Just another one of WesternCulture's 'America Sucks! Europe is Better!' threads. Thread #30.
43 posted on 09/11/2014 10:19:29 PM PDT by CodeToad (Romney is a raisin cookie looking for chocolate chip cookie votes.)
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