Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

I have a question. "There's always some dumb [bleep] that don't know me
Sipsey Street Irregulars ^ | 15 August, 2011 | Mike Vanderboegh

Posted on 08/16/2011 5:35:26 AM PDT by marktwain

Booming business of fear: Sales of safes soar.

I have a question: How long will your safe protect valuables when a home-invasion gang is holding a pistol to your two-year-old daughter's head? There's a lot of guys who have some gold or silver tucked away on the top shelf of their gun safes. That's fine. But what I am questioning here is the belief that a safe -- and a safe alone, absent firearms and the will to use them -- can protect your valuables from predators. Even if it is a break-in while you are not there, they will discover the safe, conclude it has valuables, and come back later with a better plan and a bigger crew when you are home to open it for them and available for a little friendly persuasion.

There is a man up in Winston County I know who once had a meth addict try to rob his house about ten years ago. The meth addict did not survive the experience. He regretted having to kill the man, but observed that the predator's death had netted some benefits. "Bought me a heap of peace and quiet," he told me. I pointed out that he still carried, even when he was on his own property. "Well," he explained, "there's always some dumb sonofabitch that don't know me and ain't smart enough to take the time to ask around."

Safes are fine, I suppose. Vigilance, ability and a neighborhood defense plan are better. Building a reputation for those things doesn't hurt either.


TOPICS: Education; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; defense; home; safe
I was shocked when an influential freind of mine referred to me as "one of the deadliest men in the county".

I am an average sized, mild mannered man, who teaches a CCW course with passion. I have taught about half of those that have permits in my county. My firearm skills are modest: mid collegiate level for pistol, lower state competitive level for rifle. I know a bit about knives and sticks.

Somehow, those modest skills were translated into "one of the deadliest men in the county". I guess I could have a worse reputation.

1 posted on 08/16/2011 5:35:32 AM PDT by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: marktwain

With comments like that, he is no friend.


2 posted on 08/16/2011 5:40:04 AM PDT by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I sold a large gun safe when I left Canada. The guy that bought it came with a friend and slings and had it in their truck in 15 minutes. They did take the doors off first, but I don’t think that made all that much difference.


3 posted on 08/16/2011 5:42:08 AM PDT by expat1000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

People aren’t ‘deadly’, weapons are.................


4 posted on 08/16/2011 5:42:14 AM PDT by Red Badger ("Treason doth never prosper.... What's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
one of the deadliest men in the county

Certainly preferable to "one of the deadest men in the county."

5 posted on 08/16/2011 5:43:45 AM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree ("Nanny Care State" is not a Division 3 football powerhouse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

You’ll be the first one he calls if he has a run in with the wrong person.


6 posted on 08/16/2011 5:44:36 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
"There's always some dumb sonofabitch that don't know me

Obama speaks?

7 posted on 08/16/2011 5:44:51 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
When I moved to the sticks I wore a gun on my hip at all times while on my property. Neighbors who stopped by to introduce themselves all saw the gun. One or two would ask why I carried but no one was freaked out.

I did this for protection (had an unknown Rottweiler stalk up my drive one day. He left for good when I put a warning shot in the ground) and to let everyone know there was a gun-guy living here. I wasn't concerned about the neighbors as much as their friends or cousins who might not be as law-abiding.

I've never had a problem in the 6 yrs I've lived here. One funny thing was a neighbor came by to visit with a California relative. She definitely had never seen a citizen walking around with a gun on his hip. I'm sure she was glad to leave.

8 posted on 08/16/2011 5:47:29 AM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To the left the truth looks Right-Wing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I think another good line of defense is for one to keep quiet and not advertise that they ccw or they have a black belt in karate or that they might have access to valuables.

It is surprising how many times people give clues, to those watching, about their capabilities or limitations to those watching.

For example, using a gold credit card that has an unlimited balance, when you can get your standard credit card to have the same conditions as that gold card.


9 posted on 08/16/2011 5:48:16 AM PDT by Jonty30
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
I was shocked when an influential freind of mine referred to me as "one of the deadliest men in the county".

Not a good reputation to have if you ever have the police showing up for any reason.

10 posted on 08/16/2011 5:48:41 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: expat1000

1- Don’t advertise what you have in terms of wealth or security.
2- Safes should be bolted to the floor or wall.
3- Weapons should be accessible by you at all times.
(Less than 10 seconds, preferably 5)
4- Practice, practice, practice
(point shooting practice can be done w an empty weapon, in your home)


11 posted on 08/16/2011 5:50:56 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

I take the opposite.
A weapon is an inanimate hunk of minerals.

The best pistol in the world is a rock if wielded by the incompetent.

Men are deadly.


12 posted on 08/16/2011 5:54:12 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: G Larry

Should be bolted to the floor or wall, yes, but I have never yet lived in a place where that was practical.

All the other points - right on!


13 posted on 08/16/2011 5:54:39 AM PDT by expat1000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: G Larry

Safes i- bolted, hidden, and not easily accessible.


14 posted on 08/16/2011 5:55:20 AM PDT by Jonty30
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Safes protect valuables for a number of reasons including home break-ins, fires etc. Safe’s do the job they are intended for but they can’t protect the individual and that’s obviously not what they’re for.

So when the question comes up: How long will your safe protect valuables when a home-invasion gang is holding a pistol to your two-year-old daughter’s head?

You never let it get to that point. I have an alarm system, a couple dogs and a couple guns by my bed. The dogs will let me know something is up so I will be, the alarm system let’s me know there’s someone breaking in and the laser spot lets those who broke in what I’ll be doing.


15 posted on 08/16/2011 5:56:40 AM PDT by maddog55 (OBAMA: Why stupid people shouldn't vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I have heard that said about you - more than once.


16 posted on 08/16/2011 5:59:26 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: G Larry

Agreed. I never talk guns with the neighbors. You cannot account for who they speak to or how in depth the neighborhood intelligence net is.

I would like offer that is advantageous that everyone in the household that can shoot, be taught to shoot.


17 posted on 08/16/2011 5:59:53 AM PDT by Molon Labbie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30
One of my sons is a security consultant. One of the first things he tells clients is to dump the bling cards.
18 posted on 08/16/2011 6:01:39 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: mad_as_he$$

I’ve never really understood trying to impress people that way. I’ve carried upwards of 65 grand in my pocket at one time or another and you’d never know it, because I don’t wear an Armani suit.


19 posted on 08/16/2011 6:04:35 AM PDT by Jonty30
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30
"It is surprising how many times people give clues, to those watching, about their capabilities or limitations to those watching."

I've trained my body and clothes to emit the odor of large dogs and gun solvent.

20 posted on 08/16/2011 6:04:40 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: PapaBear3625
Not a good reputation to have if you ever have the police showing up for any reason.

Many of the police have been my students as well. I am a known quantity.

21 posted on 08/16/2011 6:09:29 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Joe 6-pack

That works for me :)


22 posted on 08/16/2011 6:13:54 AM PDT by Jonty30
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

It’s not the weapons that makes you so “deadly.” It’s the will to use them....


23 posted on 08/16/2011 6:17:16 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Even Herbert Hoover kept a AAA bond rating.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: expat1000

The guy that bought it came with a friend and slings and had it in their truck in 15 minutes.....

_____________________________________________________________

A safe is meant to be bolted down. No safe even a bank safe can stop someone who has enough time and equipment. If you are out and away for a few hours your safe can protect your valuables. The bigger the safe the heavier and harder to move. Mine is nearly 6 feet tall. It was not terribly difficult to get into the basement but will be much, much more difficult to get out. It is much better to have the safe than have valuable jewelery lying around on top of a dresser. It is a wonderful place to keep ammo and precious metals.

Safes only work if you are prepared to protect them from intruders. If you aren’t armed don’t bother with a safe, you want the robbers out of the house as quickly as possible hoping that they won’t shoot you. The less time they spend around you, the easier it is for them to get what they want the less likely they will kill you.

Don’t bother getting a safe until after you have armed yourself and have practiced regularly at the range at least a couple of times a month for 6 to 12 months. Feel really comfortable carrying and shooting.

If somebody forcibly enters your house they deserve the death penalty, give them what they deserve. It sounds harsh but to me a robbers life is not worth much. They deserve whatever bad happens to them.

If more people were armed and armed robbery were more hazardous we would have much less of it.

It took me about a year to feel comfortable carrying ALL the time, now I feel uncomfortable when I’m not.


24 posted on 08/16/2011 6:18:26 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: mad_as_he$$
I have heard that said about you - more than once.

At least the burglars try to make sure that you are not home if they visit....

25 posted on 08/16/2011 6:23:23 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

“... one of the deadliest men in the country”.

I have always seen you as a big, teddy bear! So... you are probably something in the middle. A sweet person who knows how to defend himself. Sounds like a win-win situation to me!


26 posted on 08/16/2011 6:26:01 AM PDT by momtothree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty
It’s not the weapons that makes you so “deadly.” It’s the will to use them....

That is the crux of the matter. I am convinced that in today's modern, urban society, a great many people have a very strong reluctance to kill things, even when necessary.

I grew up on a farm at the edge of wilderness. I have killed a lot of things. I would not say that I enjoy killing, but I am efficient at it.

I think that one of the best things that you can do to improve your ability to defend yourself, is to take up hunting. I do not hunt in order to kill, but killing is an essential part of hunting.

27 posted on 08/16/2011 6:36:07 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

My friends had a safe put in the foundation behind a fireplace...well hidden and accessed in a closet. It is so well hidden and unremovable, it makes one wonder what he has in it! Lots of cash.


28 posted on 08/16/2011 6:37:45 AM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I have a small supply of food, guns and ammo just in case but I’m not a hard core survivalist. My boss, on the other hand, is into it in a big way. Still, we do have these conversations every now and then that go along these lines:

Him: I have a huge stockpile of weapons

Me: Every man in Afghanistan has a weapon. does it make them any safer?

Him: Well I have a meeting place if the SHTF, we have 400 people ready.

Me: In Beiruit they had a different militia every couple of blocks. All they did was kill each other off until the Syrians came in and killed anybody who didn’t submit to them. Did their numbers do them any good?

etc., etc., etc. Being prepared does put you at a big advantage over the masses who don’t have as much as a day’s supply but it isn’t going to help much if someone bigger and badder decides they want what you have.


29 posted on 08/16/2011 6:40:27 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

I live in a town that until recently was pretty much a cash society. I also have carried enormous sums of cash and never been bothered. Low key fit in and act like you are part of the scenery.


30 posted on 08/16/2011 6:42:08 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: mad_as_he$$

That’s the first line of defense, don’t give them reason to think they’ll gain from it.

If perchance, somebody wants to try, the second line of defense is to seem harmless so they aren’t prepared for your action.


31 posted on 08/16/2011 6:52:36 AM PDT by Jonty30
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: marktwain; All

Here is a tip for everyone that ownes a gun safe, also buy a floor or wall safe for cash valuable metal, important papers and jewelry.No one expexts you to have two safes. If they get the gunsafe, you might lose several thousand dollars worth of guns, but that can’t compare to what your cash, jewelry, papers or gold you might own. It is relatively easy to conceal a small safe that no one will see or know you have.


32 posted on 08/16/2011 6:54:08 AM PDT by eastforker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

47 Days And FR Is Still Short Of Its Goal

We Are In A Fight For Our Republic

Are You In Or Are You Out?

Support Free Republic

33 posted on 08/16/2011 7:11:48 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30
I think another good line of defense is for one to keep quiet and not advertise. It is surprising how many times people give clues, about their capabilities or limitations to those watching.

Very good advice.

34 posted on 08/16/2011 8:17:01 AM PDT by GBA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: maddog55

“You never let it get to that point. I have an alarm system, a couple dogs and a couple guns by my bed. The dogs will let me know something is up so I will be, the alarm system let’s me know there’s someone breaking in and the laser spot lets those who broke in what I’ll be doing.”

Stop copy catting us. LOL!!! If you don’t have a chihuahua get one. Alarm on steroids.

Seriously, we are and have been in anticipation mode for a year or more. We had a home invasion across the lake. 6 Amish with ski masks and shotguns. They held a family and their kids in terror and tried to drag the wife off with them when they fled. She resisted and they finally let go of her. By the time the cops got there they were gone. Bear in mind we never heard a thing nor did their next door neighbors who are friends of ours.

We sleep with Mr. Mossberg 500 on the floor and Mr. Springfiled Armory .40 XDM and Ms. Ruger P85 on the nightstands. Breaking into our house will be the single worst and last idea anybody ever had.


35 posted on 08/16/2011 8:44:25 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Having know you for many years the other person with a better rep is your brother.

I hear he dosen’t get mess with.


36 posted on 08/16/2011 9:25:36 AM PDT by riverrunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Sorry to disagree, but that’s a very nice reputation to have... you’re tough, good - and arming innocents. That ‘dangerous’ to certain elements of our society... feel good about this - the person saying it might not have known, but it’s a high compliment.


37 posted on 08/16/2011 9:35:43 AM PDT by GOPJ (One ring to rule them/one ring to find them/one ring to tax them/and in indebtedness bind them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOPJ
Sorry to disagree, but that’s a very nice reputation to have... you’re tough, good - and arming innocents. That ‘dangerous’ to certain elements of our society... feel good about this - the person saying it might not have known, but it’s a high compliment.

The person that said it is a good friend, and very, very smart. What struck me was that it was kind of an off the cuff remark, not intended as a compliment. It gave me some moments of introspection.

Overall, I think it is a good reputation to have. I have worked even harder at being careful of what I say. I will stand up for what I believe is right, but I try not to make unnecessary enemies. I would rather convince someone to be an ally, and it is harder to do if you have offended them.

38 posted on 08/16/2011 10:24:32 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I just read a book, an extremely quick read - “Heaven is a Real Place” by Todd Burpo.

His son nearly died of a burst appendix which was misdiagnosed as the stomach flu.

The author is a pastor.

Long story short, this boy of his died for three minutes, and in so doing went to Heaven, saw, Jesus, Satan, John the Baptist, and Mary. He was met there by his great grandfather.

That he had been to Heaven, and seen all of these things - the boy was 4 when he nearly died - was something that revealed itself over a period of a few years.

Everything that this boy claimed he witnessed is completely consistent with Scripture, in the most arcane and minute detail extremely improbable for someone four years old to know.

So, why am I telling you all of this?

One day, when the boy was six, the author came upon his son, who was always playing with toy swords, and using superhero action figures to beat up on Star Wars aliens from that weird bar scene in the first movie.

His father joked that for as much as the boy couldn’t wait to go back to Heaven, he wouldn’t be able to take his swords with him.

The boy replied, “Their are swords in heaven.”

“Where did you see swords in Heaven?”

“The angels carried them.”

“The angels had swords? Why were they carrying swords?”

“Satan, Daddy. The angels use the swords to keep the demons out of Heaven. You had a sword too.”

“You saw me, in Heaven, with a sword?”

“Fighting demons. There’s going to be a war, and you have to go.”

“I fight demons in a war with swords?”

“Some had bows and arrows. You get to choose between swords or bow and arrows.”

So, my point to all of this is that even the angels in Heaven are packing.

I recommend the book highly. There is one other child that has claimed to go to Heaven and returned, and she’s mentioned in the book. I found it very credible.

Most interestingly, this pastor gets questions from Catholics as well as protestants about the nature of Heaven, and his boy says that Mary still loves Jesus, who still bears his wounds and has no wings (only person there without them) like a mother would.

Anyway, the point is, according to this boy, even the angels in Heaven carry swords for their protection and to keep demons from Heaven. In case some idiot asks, “Would Jesus carry a gun and shoot intruders?”

You can now reply, “Actually, no, but Gabriel (who apparently sits to the left of God the Father) would be dispatched to draw the sword he carries with him around the house to run that intruder through. I personally find wearing a pistol holster less restrictive, and my house is tighter than Heaven is, so drawing down on an intruder with my Taurus loaded with .410 shells is what I generally prefer.”

There’s a ‘castle doctrine’ in Heaven, I guess.


39 posted on 08/16/2011 10:59:39 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: RinaseaofDs
Satan, in Heaven?
40 posted on 08/16/2011 11:07:46 AM PDT by Osage Orange (HE HATE ME)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: RinaseaofDs
Thank you for the story. I have always thought that there was righteous defense, but many ridicule the concept.
41 posted on 08/16/2011 11:08:48 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: riverrunner
Having know you for many years the other person with a better rep is your brother.

Well, He is tougher, a better shot, much better at hand to hand.

But, I write better!

42 posted on 08/16/2011 11:32:08 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
In my opinion, there are two types of "friendlies" when it comes to those of us in the profession of firearms instruction... A) Those that take it in stride and treat us like anyone else because they are used to us and have known us for years, and B) those that are cordial and courteous but are still stand-offish because they can not wrap their mind around the fact that we are willing to kill. In the latter's view, we are politically incorrect "throw-backs" to another time in which man completely understood that he was personally responsible for his own well being.

I have to deal with both everywhere I go, even at my church... The real friends ask me for advise, ask me to help them locate a specific type of gun, or schedule private lessons. The others walk uneasily around me as if I am a case of sweating dynamite that, if not handled properly, will explode. These are the same people that have never had any sort of physical confrontation with anyone in their life, and for some reason they often deem themselves stationed at a level "above" those that would resort to violence. Now... Of course, if on some Sunday morning some islamofacist decided that he would come into our church and take out a bunch of Christians, these same people would be looking to me and a few of my students to solve the problem for all of us... There are "sheepdogs" among the flock (pun intended.) If it ever comes down to it, we will take care of the problem should it occur. When someone gets the nerve up to question me as to how I can teach others to kill with such efficiency (as in my "Tactical Anatomy" class) I just tell them to go look up Psalm 144:1.

It's like the old saying goes: "An armed society is a polite society." I treat everyone nice... I smile and say "Hello!"... I play with the kids and complement the babies... But nothing changes the parameters of how I am treated by the "friendlies."

I agree with you that it is a good reputation to have. In regard to your "moments of introspection" I would just say that we are who we are... We can't "unlearn" what we know or change how we react to a threat. But the good thing is that we don't have to. I've been through some "very stressful" situations in my time where firearms were involved (let's leave it at that) and have mornings that I get up and ask "Am I a good person?" and I know the answer is "yes."

I teach law enforcement agencies and military units in large classes, and civilians in private instruction... I know that what I am teaching them, based upon years of everyday experience and my combat experiences, will help them get home to their families. I am doing a good thing in my work - that I know for sure.

And those people that "just don't get us"? Well, they are the ones with the problem - not us... They are the ones that will be found with the phone in their hands by the homocide detective there to work the latest case of (choose one) home invasion; car jacking; street mugging; rape; or "he looked at me disrespectfully" that turned into a murder.

43 posted on 08/16/2011 11:36:44 AM PDT by Raven6 (What we need: More people that can shoot like Tennesseans and fight like Texans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Raven6

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, we are who we are. I think most people have the potential. Unfortunately, one cannot pick up a lifetime of skills, attitudes, and worldview in an afternoon.


44 posted on 08/16/2011 11:47:18 AM PDT by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Osage Orange

While in Heaven, the boy saw Satan. Whether Satan in Heaven actually having coffee with Gabriel is unclear.

The book indicates that he was in the presence of Christ, and that Christ had him do ‘homework’ and proceeded to teach him. Mind you, the boy was three when he had the experience, and then related it as a four year old.

Remarkable book.


45 posted on 08/16/2011 3:01:29 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: RinaseaofDs
I'm confused....did you not say.."Everything that this boy claimed he witnessed is completely consistent with Scripture"...

Because Satan in Heaven..is not "completely consistent" with anything I've ever read.

46 posted on 08/16/2011 7:18:52 PM PDT by Osage Orange (HE HATE ME)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Osage Orange

Read the book.

Draw your own conclusions. Satan’s existence was revealed to the boy whilst in Heaven. I would venture the probability that Satan was not in Heaven at the time.

He was revealed details of his parents life he could not have known about, and apparent details of his future, and the future of his parents. Satan was a part of that revelation.

Whether John was taken to Heaven in his revelation is unknown to me, but clearly details of the antichrist were revealed to him, wherever he was at that time as well.

Again, do your own homework.


47 posted on 08/17/2011 12:33:16 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: RinaseaofDs
I've read the only book that matters....

All I was pointing out to you...is what you said. What you said was wrong.

I'm not discounting the story.

That said...Satan was once in Heaven..before he was kicked out.

48 posted on 08/17/2011 10:27:38 AM PDT by Osage Orange (HE HATE ME)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson