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Stratfor disputes OBL killing in Abbottabad
The Nation on the Web of Pakistan! ^ | August 19, 2011 | Azhar Masood

Posted on 08/21/2011 9:54:00 PM PDT by hamboy

ISLAMABAD - Globally recognised intelligence and forecast STRATFOR has rejected the US Central Intelligence Agency claim that the man killed in Abbottabad’s compound by US Naval SEALs was al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden. This was one of the reasons the CIA kept Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in dark.

The STRATFOR says: “The possibility that bin Laden was already dead and in terms of his impact on terrorist operations, he effectively was. That does not mean, however, that he was not an important ideological leader or that he was not someone the United States sought to capture or kill for his role in carrying out the most devastating terrorist attack in the US history.” In its latest intelligence gathering, the STRATFOR claims that aggressive US intelligence collection efforts have come to fruition, as killing of Osama bin Laden was perhaps the top symbolic goal for the CIA and all those involved in the US covert operations. Indeed, President Obama said during his speech on May 1 that upon entering the office, he had personally instructed CIA Director Leon Panetta that killing the al-Qaeda leader was his top priority. The logistical challenges of catching a single wanted individual with Bin Laden level of resources were substantial and while 10 years, the United States was able to accomplish the objective it set out to do in October 2001.

(Excerpt) Read more at nation.com.pk ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: abbottabad; binladendead; islamoganda; obl; osama; osamebinladendead; pakistan; stratfor
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1 posted on 08/21/2011 9:54:10 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: hamboy

If this can be proved, it will kill the Obama propaganda movie.


2 posted on 08/21/2011 9:59:07 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: hamboy
The Paki press is as unreliable as the Paki ISI. The Stratfor article never says OBL wasn't killed in Abbottabad, just that it was tactically irrelevant. Yu can read the actual source article at Stratfor:

http://www.stratfor.com/print/193267

3 posted on 08/21/2011 9:59:23 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: firebrand

Very convenient (for Obama) that Seal Team Six were all killed very recently, wasn’t it .......


4 posted on 08/21/2011 10:02:00 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: hamboy

This is a fairly intriguing thought experiment. In general, I have regarded Stratfor as very “non-tinfoil” in terms of of its prognostications. Of course, not everything they say comes true and not everything is perfectly accurate, but this is pretty much a binary affair: Either our dudes offed him or they didn’t......and if they didn’t, then of course that whole can of conspiratorial worms opens up.

Anyone have an opinion as to left or rightedness of Stratfor that I’ve skipped over?


5 posted on 08/21/2011 10:03:12 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Both sides need to put aside the partisan bickering, & work out how much free stuff I get)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

The precise number is classified, but there are reportedly 300 men in Seal Team 6 (officially now knows as Devgru). So not all were killed!!


6 posted on 08/21/2011 10:09:12 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Stratfor suggests that it was done. Sounds demonic, which makes it likely.


7 posted on 08/21/2011 10:09:30 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder

I see that someone in the Comments section calls Stratfor a Mossad asset and wonders where they are going with this.


8 posted on 08/21/2011 10:11:39 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder
Anyone not drunk on kool aid knows it wasn't him, the info is out there, just have to scratch beneath the coating of Gov. lies.
9 posted on 08/21/2011 10:11:49 PM PDT by de.rm ('Most people never believe anything you tell them unless it isn't true."-Groucho Marx)
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To: hamboy
We have DNA tests and Navy SEAL eyewitnesses confirming Bin Laden's identity, and Al-Qaida and Ayman al-Zawahiri admit he was killed in the raid. Against that, we have Stratfor, whose credibility is about the same as Debka's - in other words, not very good.

Theorizing about government conspiracies can be fun and can add some spice to otherwise boring lives, but it's childish fun. Large government conspiraces are pretty much impossible in the US - there are far too many potential whistle-blowers. Bin Laden was in that compound and the SEALs killed him.
10 posted on 08/21/2011 10:13:04 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: hamboy

This is so sick especially the Navy Seals being murdered.


11 posted on 08/21/2011 10:13:41 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: hamboy

Is this another POS deal like the Obama birth certificate orchestrated by Obama and Co. to distract us?


12 posted on 08/21/2011 10:16:48 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: MrShoop
For the interested:

Summary

The killing of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden represents possibly the biggest clandestine operations success for the United States since the capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in 2003. The confirmation of his death is an emotional victory for the United States and could have wider effects on the geopolitics of the region, but bin Laden’s death is irrelevant for al Qaeda and the wider jihadist movement from an operational perspective.


Goldstein is dead. Time to pick a new one...
13 posted on 08/21/2011 10:17:51 PM PDT by BradyLS (DO NOT FEED THE BEARS!)
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To: firebrand

bin laden died in July of 2005 and was smuggled from Iran to the saudis’ royal vacation spot, Marbella. by yacht. then to Saudi Arabia by the saudi royal family on their personal airplane. He is buried in an unmarked grave in saudi arabia where his very wealthy family lives.
zawahiri announced his death to the leaders of al qaeda in August, 2005 after the required 30 day mourning period.


14 posted on 08/21/2011 10:19:03 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder
The article is a lie, stratfor never said bin laden wasn't killed. Read it yourself:

http://www.stratfor.com/print/193267

15 posted on 08/21/2011 10:19:43 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: BradyLS

You’ve selected this passage, but in fairness the article does speculate that the facts are fishy.


16 posted on 08/21/2011 10:23:00 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Stratfor, whose credibility is about the same as Debka's

And to think they once positioned themselves as a serious news analysis operation - I guess the National Enquirer model they've evolved into is more profitable for them.

17 posted on 08/21/2011 10:26:04 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Seal Team Six all killed? NOPE.

Dufus AP got it wrong.

August 6th, 2011

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/06/seal-team-6-marines-who-killed-osama-bin-laden-died-in-helicopter-crash-ap/

“UPDATE: CNN is reporting that none of the SEALs in the crash were members of the operation that killed Osama bin Laden.”


18 posted on 08/21/2011 10:28:18 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Hoplite

Well that’s interesting....I’ve seen Bill O’Reilly personally vouch for Stratfor - claimed he used them for research. HA!


19 posted on 08/21/2011 10:37:50 PM PDT by Aria ( "If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.")
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

Osama died in 2004. There’s detail right here on FR.


20 posted on 08/21/2011 10:38:49 PM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: freekitty

This is not news at all as just last night my next door neighbor’s second cousin’s friend’s uncle saw OBL and Elvis play the lounge at a Holiday Inn ouside of Topeka.


21 posted on 08/21/2011 10:39:15 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: MrShoop; AnotherUnixGeek; hamboy

Stratfor does say it has long considered the possibility that Osama was already dead, and mentions the surprising lack of videos at the expected times.

The article posted at the top of the FR thread goes on to quote more material about the doubtful circumstances from unnamed sources in Pakistan and Washington.

The point that we have too many whistleblowers here for such a conspiracy to have taken place is a good one and probably wins the case. For now, anyway.


22 posted on 08/21/2011 10:41:06 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: Texas Fossil

we’re talking about CNN “I hate conservatives and the GOP so much I will skew my polls to save Obama”...they are MSM. The again, I hate anything that comes out of the mouths of this regime.


23 posted on 08/21/2011 10:41:12 PM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: MestaMachine

August 2005? Wasn’t it 2004?


24 posted on 08/21/2011 10:41:20 PM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek; MrShoop
We have DNA?

If OBL needed dialysis twice a week dialysis before operation enduring freedom do you think he would have survived skipping dialysis on the run? Actually nowadays you dunno who's unreliable and reliable. Where did you hear a dead muslim buried at sea huh? Oh we have the DNA! Yeah right....

25 posted on 08/21/2011 10:42:06 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: firebrand

Please quote where the article speculates that the facts are fishy. I don’t see that at all.


26 posted on 08/21/2011 10:43:49 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

We have DNA tests and Navy SEAL eyewitnesses confirming - You do not have SEAL witnesses. The SEALs can’t go and blabber to the press about what they do.


27 posted on 08/21/2011 10:44:13 PM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: Hardraade; MestaMachine

Well, unless you guys are right. Can either of you give the FR threads about this?


28 posted on 08/21/2011 10:45:17 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: Hardraade

‘05. zawahiri came out in August 2005.


29 posted on 08/21/2011 10:45:36 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: MrShoop

I just clarified above. They say they have long considered the possibility that Osama was already dead and cite the absence of videos at the expected times. They would presumably not have considered the possibility if the facts weren’t fishy.


30 posted on 08/21/2011 10:48:18 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: hamboy; All

I consider this a very serious topic and not just a conspiracy exercise. The schemers in the White House have concocted a way to turn the Citizens United decision to their own advantage to get the doofus elected for another four years, and I would be delighted for someone to take the wind out of their sails.


31 posted on 08/21/2011 10:54:34 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: firebrand; MrShoop
Even the New Yorker’s Navy SEAL cover story turned out to be fake...!
http://bigpeace.com/jpollak/2011/08/06/is-the-new-yorkers-navy-seal-cover-story-fake



32 posted on 08/21/2011 10:58:48 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: MestaMachine

Drat. Memory shot. Again :).


33 posted on 08/21/2011 11:01:55 PM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: hamboy

bin laden spent the last year of his life in Iran. They also sheltered members of his family. zawahiri is in Iran and travels back and forth to Pakistan rarely, unless there is something he does not trust a courier with.
They never had bin laden’s DNA. What they had was a DNA sample from his mother or some other family member. The DNA they claim was bin laden’s was his son’s.


34 posted on 08/21/2011 11:02:57 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: MestaMachine
bin laden spent the last year of his life in Iran. They also sheltered members of his family. zawahiri is in Iran and travels back and forth to Pakistan rarely, unless there is something he does not trust a courier with. They never had bin laden’s DNA. What they had was a DNA sample from his mother or some other family member. The DNA they claim was bin laden’s was his son’s.

This is neither true nor relevant.

35 posted on 08/21/2011 11:05:22 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: firebrand

Take a trip back in time to pre-election. One of the promises obama made was to hunt down bin laden and “bring him to justice.”
I told Hardraade then and there, at the time that he said it, that this EXACT thing would happen. And it did.


36 posted on 08/21/2011 11:08:46 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: Steel Wolf

It is true. And why is it NOT relevant?


37 posted on 08/21/2011 11:09:58 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: Hardraade

ping back here, dude.


38 posted on 08/21/2011 11:10:56 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: MestaMachine

I better go and make some coffee stuff before I forget smth more. Dug out the txt, US apprised aug. 10th. Did you have that better resolution Z at your end?


39 posted on 08/21/2011 11:11:22 PM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: Steel Wolf

Wait. If it’s not true, then it’s surely not relevant. But if it is true, then it surely is relevant, since the claim was made that it was Osama’s DNA.


40 posted on 08/21/2011 11:11:30 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: firebrand

Look. Bill Gertz was tipped about this at the time. He was actually the only one who came out publicly with it, but he was shut up because the bush administration needed a live bin laden for their own political reasons. Like the audio that came out right before his reelection that put him out of kerry’s reach.
Think back and remember the flurry of activity surrounding the saudi royals at the time. About moving the royal family possessions and cars, even, for their *safety* to Marbella.
There was even a false report that the saudi king had died.
That was to cover what they were actually doing, and what they were doing, was recovering bin laden’s body and bringing it home with honor.


41 posted on 08/21/2011 11:24:05 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: hamboy
Is this going to turn into another "who shot Kennedy" conspiracy?


42 posted on 08/21/2011 11:28:36 PM PDT by clearcarbon
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To: MestaMachine
It is true. And why is it NOT relevant?

It's not true because OBL was caught and killed in Abottabad a few months ago.

As to the relevance? That should be self explanatory.

Full disclosure, I spent the last ten years, up until February, working GWOT / intelligence, and over half of that time direct support to Special Operations. The latter half, after my knee went bad, I worked as a desk jockey at Maryland or forward, then as a consultant / teacher for the military downrange.

So.

I was having lunch with a friend from high school, hadn't seen him in years. He'd gone over the top lib in college, whereas I went off to the Army. Anyway, he had seen some stuff on the internet about 9/11. Missiles instead of planes. False flag operation. Smart people dug into this. Did their research. Scientific stuff. Wanted to know if I knew anything about it. I was in the system, after all. Maybe I had heard something?

It's an innocent enough question, if you don't understand how the intel world works. If you do, it's an accusation of being accessory to treason and mass murder.

I politely explained that despite the natural desire of man to find fault in leaders they don't like, by tying every bad thing that happens to them, you'd have to involve literally thousands of people who could blow the whistle and destroy him. People who are often bitterly opposed to each other organizationally, personally, or philosophically. The ideal that we'd all just chill out with the cutthroat intel collection scene because GW needed to drop some skyscrapers for Halliburton is so remotely bizarre that it's hard to even get worked up about it personally.

Anyway, I found the time to be insulted personally, we never spoke again.

Why my story is relevant to your fairy tale is that both flights of fancy would require many thousands of people, 95% in the SOF community, 40% in the intel community, to forget the fact they despise Obama and could destroy him politically by doing the legal and moral thing, i.e. to expose a criminal cover up. Instead, they'd have to play along with said criminal cover up for no reason at all, other than to risk going to jail in order to get a guy you despise reelected.

Ergo, this Osama died in 2005 business is not relevant to any discussion grounded in reality.

43 posted on 08/21/2011 11:35:42 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: clearcarbon
Is this going to turn into another "who shot Kennedy" conspiracy?



Looks like they're watching the Deep Troat film!




44 posted on 08/21/2011 11:35:54 PM PDT by hamboy
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To: MestaMachine

Post whatever links you can about this, if you don’t mind. I will try to do my own research, but it sounds as though you might have them handy or at least know better keywords to find them.

I find all your statements believable, but we would need more in order to cast doubt on The Movie. Without backup, or another film from the opposite view, the effort to discredit the film could backfire on us.


45 posted on 08/21/2011 11:42:44 PM PDT by firebrand (Why didn't they impeach him? He's now totally out of control.)
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To: Steel Wolf
Full disclosure

Rotfl. Out of your quarantine period, are you?

46 posted on 08/21/2011 11:43:09 PM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: MestaMachine

Something sure does not make sense. We are working with Al-Qaida in Libya just a few months after we supposedly killed Bin Laden ?


47 posted on 08/21/2011 11:46:45 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Steel Wolf

With all due respect, what you think you know is impossible. And if it WAS true, the rest of your *reason* would be exactly the same as what you are saying about this op. And ain’t no one saying nothing.


48 posted on 08/21/2011 11:50:07 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: justa-hairyape

Exactly.


49 posted on 08/21/2011 11:50:42 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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To: firebrand

Do you know anyone who speaks arabic? I can tell you how to verify.


50 posted on 08/21/2011 11:54:10 PM PDT by MestaMachine (If the truth hurts, prepare yourself for a LOT of pain.)
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