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Governor Livingston’s Committee submitted its report, dealing with Article VII Sections 4-6.

The first clause of Article VII Section 4 was approved 21 Aug, “No tax or duty shall be laid by the Legislature on articles exported from any State;”

Gov Livingston’s committee examined the next clauses of Section 4, “nor on the migration or importation of such persons as the several States shall think proper to admit; nor shall such migration or importation be prohibited.”

The committee wished to replace the clauses with, -"The migration or importation of such persons as the several States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Legislature prior to the year 1800, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such migration or importation at a rate not exceeding the average of the duties laid on imports." It was recommended to leave Article VII Sect. 5 as it was; “No capitation tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the Census hereinbefore directed to be taken.”

Lastly, Article VII Sect 6 was to be struck entirely; “No navigation act shall be passed without the assent of two thirds of the members present in the each House.”

Pierce Butler (SC) notified the Convention he would revisit (Article VII Section 1 Clause 1) tomorrow, the role of speculators of National Debt.

Charles Pinckney (SC) seconded and Governor Edmund Randolph also wished to reconsider.

The convention voted to reconsider on the next day, 7-2.

(Okay, the Committee Report was submitted, but not taken up for debate.)

Article IX Sections 2-3 were next. (I do not print them here for they are very long and nearly identical to Article IX of the Articles of Confederation. As an example of how unworkable the Confederation was, this Article was among the worst.)

John Rutlidge (SC) moved and Dr. William Samuel Johnson (CN) seconded to strike the Sections because of a National Judiciary in the new plan.

Roger Sherman (CN) and Jonathan Dayton (NJ) concurred.

Hugh Williamson (NC) and Nathaniel Gorham (MA) motioned to postpone instead of striking out.

On the question to postpone, it failed 7-3.

James Wilson (PA) moved to strike out Article IX Sections 2-3. It was approved 8-2.

Article X Section 1, “The Executive Power of the United States shall be vested in a single person. His stile shall be, "The President of the United States of America;" and his title shall be, "His Excellency." He shall be elected by ballot by the Legislature. He shall hold his office during the term of seven years; but shall not be elected a second time,” was next.

The first and second clauses passed without opposition, a single Executive and his style and title.

John Rutlidge (SC) moved to add, “joint” before “ballot,” as the most convenient method.

Roger Sherman (CN) assumed each house had a negative on the other, including selection of the Executive. The voice of the States should not be silenced. He therefore opposed the motion of Mr. Rutlidge.

Nathaniel Gorham (MA) (appealed to National rather than local interests) Keep the public good in mind. Contentious back and forth between the two houses would result in unnecessary turmoil.

Jonathan Dayton (NJ) pointed out what all knew; a joint session would give the House of Representatives, meaning the large states, effective dominance over the elections of Presidents. He could never agree to it. He did not foresee problems with two houses agreeing separately on a common candidate.

Daniel Carroll (MD) moved, and James Wilson (PA) seconded to replace “by the Legislature,” with, “by the people.”

(Popular election of the President was considered and quickly rejected.)

Mr. Carroll’s motion failed 9-2.

David Brearly (NJ) opposed adding “joint.” The Small States would not rip off the Large States, in this case that is.

James Wilson (PA) explained why the Larger States should have a greater voice and the danger of separate house votes. The Senate would play a big balancing role to the overall vote advantage of Large States.

John Langdon (NH) (put the narrow interests of his State aside.) thought the President should be elected by the single voice of Congress. Discrete votes by each house in NH brought troubles; a “no” in one house would hurt the feelings (make an enemy?) of the defeated. He supported a joint session despite the size of his State.

James Wilson (PA) pointed out that since the President of the Senate (at this moment, the President of the Senate was to be chosen by Senators, just as the Speaker of the House was elected by fellow Congressmen) would become President of the United States in the event of vacancy, there was potential for purposeful delay if the Senate sat as a separate electing body. (Our Framers didn’t miss much.)

James Madison (VA) (did some math) compared votes between the largest and smallest States. The largest would have four times the votes of the smallest while it had ten times the population. This could not be unreasonable as the President was to represent all of the people.

By a 7-4 vote, Congress would sit in joint session to elect the President.

Jonathan Dayton (NJ) motioned and David Brearly (NJ) seconded to limit each State to one vote. The motion failed in a squeaker, 6-5.

Charles Pinckney (SC) (sought to head off State boycotts as was done in the Confederation) motioned to require only a majority of votes of members present (rather than a majority of all Representatives and Senators).

Mr. Pinckney’s motion carried 10-1.

Judge George Read (DE) moved to give the President of the Senate an additional vote in the event of a tie. This was disagreed to without a formal vote.

Governeur Morris (PA) (For some reason, Mr. Morris is not acknowledged as a major influence, a big player and large brain at the Convention.) motioned to replace Congressional appointment (with a method very close to what we have today) with electors chosen by the people. As it was, there would be incredible corruption in Congressional appointment, the President would be a weak tool of the people he owed his office to, and would seek to feather his nest after his term. He would sacrifice executive powers, the rights of the people, to satisfy his overlords. Worse, there would be continual intrigue to oust him.

Daniel Carroll (MD) seconded and the motion narrowly failed 6-5.

Jonathan Dayton (NJ) motioned to postpone consideration of the last two clauses of Article X Section 1. It failed without a formal vote.

(The last two clauses:) “He shall hold his office during the term of seven years; but shall not be elected a second time.”

Jacob Broome (DE) motioned to commit the two clauses; it failed on an equal vote.

A portion of Mr. Morris’ motion, taken in the abstract, to elect the President via electors, failed on an equal vote.

(In a interesting twist) NJ delegates insisted the remaining clauses of Article X Section 1 be postponed to tomorrow.

Article X Section 2 was next. “He shall, from time to time, give information to the Legislature, of the state of the Union: he may recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary, and expedient: he may convene them on extraordinary occasions. In case of disagreement between the two Houses, with regard to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he thinks proper: he shall take care that the laws of the United States be duly and faithfully executed: he shall commission all the officers of the United States; and shall appoint officers in all cases not otherwise provided for by this Constitution. He shall receive Ambassadors, and may correspond with the supreme Executives of the several States. He shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons; but his pardon shall not be pleadable in bar of an impeachment. He shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States. He shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during his continuance in office. Before he shall enter on the duties of his department, he shall take the following oath or affirmation, "I - solemnly swear, (or affirm) that that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States of America." He shall be removed from his office on impeachment by the House of Representatives, and conviction in the Supreme Court, of treason, bribery, or corruption. In case of his removal as aforesaid, death, resignation, or disability to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the President of the Senate shall exercise those powers and duties, until another President of the United States be chosen, or until the disability of the President be removed.”

“Information” was removed and inserted after “Legislature.”

Roger Sherman (CN) objected to “shall appoint officers in all cases not otherwise provided for by this Constitution.” It was too broad. What of military officers? He feared what happened under the reign of James II of Great Britain. He moved to insert “or by law” after “Constitution.”

(He was on to something here, which in the final Constitution would end up in Article II Section 2. The damnable czars of recent years are clearly extra, if not unConstitutional.)

James Madison (VA) motioned to strike “officers” and replace with “to offices.” This would preclude appointment to offices not created by law. (Really? That is not how I read the amended wording.) His motion passed.

On Mr. Sherman’s “or by law” amendment, it failed 9-1.

(The Convention is groping for the words to allow the President to nominate to offices as set up by law and thereafter approved by the Senate. As with some other clauses, the words did not come easy, but only after some fine brains set to it.)

John Dickinson (DE) moved to strike out the words "and shall appoint to offices in all cases not otherwise provided for by this Constitution" and insert-"and shall appoint to all offices established by this Constitution, except in cases herein otherwise provided for, and to all offices which may hereafter be created by law."

Governor Edmund Randolph mused on the power to appoint.

Mr. Dickinson’s motion carried, 6-4.

John Dickinson (DE) moved and Governor Edmund Randolph seconded, to add, "except where by law the appointment shall be vested in the Legislatures or Executives of the several States."

James Wilson (PA) thought this clause would be immediately abused by the States.

Roger Sherman (CN) and Governeur Morris (PA) continued down this dead end alley.

Mr. Dickinson’s motion failed to pass.

By unanimous vote, the Convention would meet at 10 am and adjourn at 3 pm.

Adjourned.

1 posted on 08/24/2011 2:24:36 AM PDT by Jacquerie
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To: Lady Jag; Ev Reeman; familyof5; NewMediaJournal; pallis; Kartographer; SuperLuminal; unixfox; ...
Constitutional Convention Ping!

With almost three months down and less than one to go in the Convention, the Senate still had power to appoint the President, federal judges and make treaties. Upon vacancy or death, the President of the Senate, who was elected among the Senators would assume the Presidency.

Despite previously stated fears of an Aristocratic Senate, the Framers were remarkably close to creating one.

2 posted on 08/24/2011 2:51:44 AM PDT by Jacquerie
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