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Crash in a Volvo or in a Toyota?
08/31/2011 | WesternCulture

Posted on 08/30/2011 6:27:20 PM PDT by WesternCulture

Recently, Toyota have been claiming to build the safest cars on Earth. Just like (Chinese owned) Volvo Cars have been doing for decades.

I happen to live in Gothenburg, Sweden, home of Volvo.

I also happen to admire and respect Japanese culture.

But I fail to see how average Toyota cars actually could compete with vehicles like the Volvo V70/XC70/XC60/XC90. The Avensis can, to a certain degree, but is not representative of their product line.

Toyota:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk9yGUu6dtA

Volvo Cars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtSOYEr-rYQ


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Sports
KEYWORDS: automotive; cars; toyota; volvo

1 posted on 08/30/2011 6:27:29 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

Toyota:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk9yGUu6dtA

Volvo Cars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtSOYEr-rYQ


2 posted on 08/30/2011 6:28:26 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

Don’t know much about those puddle-jumpers, but I feel very safe in my Ford F-350.


3 posted on 08/30/2011 6:35:42 PM PDT by MountainDad (Support your local Militia)
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To: WesternCulture

How’s Saab doing these days?


4 posted on 08/30/2011 6:36:49 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter Hobbit)
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To: WesternCulture
Crash in a Volvo or in a Toyota?

Neither if you please.

5 posted on 08/30/2011 6:37:05 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Can we ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Easily. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.)
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To: WesternCulture

This is drivel since the gubment motors induced Toyota recall turned out to be operator error. My wife was t-boned by a Volvo wagon (coincidence) traveling at 55. She was struck squarely in the driver door. A bump on the head and a slightly torqued neck was the result. This was in an Accord and not a Toyota but is a good example of top tier Japanese safety engineering.


6 posted on 08/30/2011 6:40:26 PM PDT by rsobin
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To: Kirkwood

“How’s Saab doing these days?”

- I wouldn’t be surprised if they survived both of us.


7 posted on 08/30/2011 6:43:40 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

Volvo- very expensive, complex/over engineered, not mechanically the most reliable nor durable, but very safe cars.

Albeit, their legend is highly inflated and padded with them having faked some of their staged tests years past and having to deal with their own set of blunders:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/features/article7132485.ece

Toyota has nothing to worry about. Compare apples with apples (size and weight class of car) and they do just fine: http://www.iihs.org/ratings/


8 posted on 08/30/2011 6:43:56 PM PDT by Red6
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To: WesternCulture

LOL. Drinking again.


9 posted on 08/30/2011 6:48:53 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter Hobbit)
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To: WesternCulture

I owned the 850 right after university. Pretty old car but one thing I have always noticed about the ole station wagons is that they are “heavy”, sturdy, reliable but murder $$$ on the service.

Driving also got me some nice cheap cribs. My former landlord who gave me my first apartment after graduation from uni later told me that the reason why she gave me the apartment after so many people looked at it because I drove the Volvo..plus, the back had a lot of room to umm..fool around.


10 posted on 08/30/2011 6:52:21 PM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: Red6

“not mechanically the most reliable nor durable”

- We don’t know about cars made today, but Volvos and M-Bs have, up to now, beaten most other brands.

American cars of the 1950s also seem to sort among the most reliable ever manufactured.

(British made cars of the same era displayed a very short life-span)

Anyhow, there’s a particular reason to why American cars of the above mentioned era appear to be indestructable (from a statistic viewpoint); Namely the popularity these cars enjoy among enthusiasts like those of Scandinavia.

According to some sources, Sweden boasts more classic American cars than California.

- What would you do if you were an unemployed car freak living in Scandinavia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vzn10YijM4


11 posted on 08/30/2011 7:04:11 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: Kirkwood

“LOL. Drinking again.”

- Have I ever apologized when sober?


12 posted on 08/30/2011 7:09:43 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

I do not know about recent Volvos, but my first was a
P1800, two door sport coupe, bought from a friend who was quite knowledgeable about cars. (1965)
My friend, an aircraft parts distributor, as well as an auto affectionado, considered the Volvo to be the safest car on the road.
I was single and in my early 20s, so the car was perfect for me.
In my later years, I had a number of Volvo wagons, with excellent results.

My last few years in the US, I was in my old Volvo wagon, going about 60 when a pickup pulled out in front of me
at a crossroad. There was no way to stop, and moving to fast to swerve.
I smashed into the bed of the truck, spinning him 180 degrees.
I drove onto my appointment, another 15 miles away.
I had only a leaky radiator, along with minor body damage
Insurance, however, totaled it due the nature of the wreck, and age of the car, which had well over 100,000 miles.

Keep in mind, all of my four Volvos were 1960 to 1980 models.


13 posted on 08/30/2011 7:19:55 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: WesternCulture; Kirkwood
Saab could enter bankruptcy this week
14 posted on 08/30/2011 7:25:22 PM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: Kirkwood

It passed away earlier this year.


15 posted on 08/30/2011 7:28:09 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: max americana

“one thing I have always noticed about the ole station wagons is that they are “heavy”, sturdy, reliable but murder $$$ on the service.”

- Yeah, Volvos are heavy (compared to most other cars imported to the US at least), reliable, but also expensive to maintain.

However, over here in Sweden they are among the least expensive ones to keep rolling.

Considering the economy of it all, I can’t see why anyone living in Sweden would drive any other car.

But I used to like BMWs. That is before Dame Edna began designing their fronts.

Dame Edna:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV6Q4Q9u1pU

What BMW once used to be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_6_Series_(E24)


16 posted on 08/30/2011 7:36:38 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: AlexW

Great story.


17 posted on 08/30/2011 7:37:46 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: rsobin

I like my honda accord, and my three kids all fit in the back heh.

I’ve always driven foreign, toyota, honda. I like quality, and I like not supporting the unions, and I also like companies that aren’t owned by the government.

If I need a diesel truck, which I may at some point here, I would probably opt for the F-350, now that Ford fired International.


18 posted on 08/30/2011 7:42:44 PM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: WesternCulture

My uncle who now lives in Canada used to own the 650. He told me he drove it across America and if he didn’t have the time nor the cash to sleep at a motel, he parked alongside the road and slept in it.

One time, he told me he was at the Grand Canyon (drove all night and parked at a nice spot overlooking the canyon) and at 6 am, the sheriff knocked on the window, waking him up and he saw the greatest sunset of his life. He wasn’t supposed to park at that area LOL but the view was so perfect that the sun just rose from canyon towards the area.


19 posted on 08/30/2011 7:44:58 PM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: WesternCulture

Nothing does Dame Edna say about the BMW! What’s up?


20 posted on 08/30/2011 7:45:08 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: max americana

Quite the sunset at 6 am.

I know what you meant to type.


21 posted on 08/30/2011 7:56:30 PM PDT by listenhillary (Look your representatives in the eye and ask if they intend to pay off the debt. They will look away)
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To: Revolting cat!

“Nothing does Dame Edna say about the BMW!”

- I was referring to the similarity in design regarding present day BMWs and her spectacles!!!!!

Guess you’re well aware of this and just wish to Edna up the great thread I’ve initiated:)


22 posted on 08/30/2011 7:57:35 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

I’ll take my chances in a Saab or Volvo any day over a Toyota or Honda. And I have family experience, tragically, to attest to that.


23 posted on 08/30/2011 8:00:27 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper
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To: WesternCulture
I'd feel pretty safe in this.


24 posted on 08/30/2011 8:02:13 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

Wow...are you sure about that? Tests on flat-front cab trucks historically are not pretty.


25 posted on 08/30/2011 8:03:47 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper
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To: big'ol_freeper
Okay. Maybe I need to get one of those Mack trucks like Kris Kristofferson drove in Convoy. He smashed and drove through darn near everything with that rig.


26 posted on 08/30/2011 8:14:25 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: WesternCulture

Safest car I ever owned was a ‘75 LTD, two tons of rolling iron that turned three other cars into scrap and rolled on.

Nothing beats big and heavy.


27 posted on 08/30/2011 8:56:45 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Nothing beats big and heavy.

Until you crash into an immoveable object.
28 posted on 08/30/2011 9:07:17 PM PDT by WackySam (Obama got Osama just like Nixon landed on the moon.)
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To: WackySam
My LTD WAS the immovable object. It crushed the hindquarters of a Mustang and only lost a rubber pad on the my front bumper. I love it!

Down with the little tin boxes!

29 posted on 08/30/2011 9:22:27 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: max americana
the back had a lot of room to umm..fool around.

your landlord liked that? :-)

30 posted on 08/30/2011 9:25:18 PM PDT by Cronos (www.forfiter.com)
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To: AlexW
my first was a P1800, two door sport coupe,

With a B18B engine and dual SU carbs, same engine that was in my old 142. I wonder if I still have the air flow meter I used to balance those carbs.

31 posted on 08/30/2011 10:19:55 PM PDT by TChad
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To: MountainDad

Agree about the 350. I asked my insurance agent why the premium was so low on it, less than most cars even though it is far more expensive than a car, and he said, “What could happen to it? It’s going to face down anything less than an M1A2 Abrams. We’re certainly never going to have to pay off on a medical claim for you.” (He’s a farm boy.)


32 posted on 08/30/2011 10:34:47 PM PDT by ottbmare (off-the-track Thoroughbred mare)
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To: TChad

“With a B18B engine and dual SU carbs,”
_____________________________________

My friend showed me how to adjust the carbs, without any meter.
There was a cut-off button on the bottom of each carb.
IIRC, I would cut one off, while adjusting the other.

I sold the car to a girlfriend who had the really neat red color changed to white...yuk.
The car caught fire in Interstate 40 and burned up....served
her right, haha.


33 posted on 08/30/2011 11:46:51 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: AlexW
I sold the car to a girlfriend who had the really neat red color changed to white...yuk.

The red was beautiful. Made the P1800 (and the S and the E) look like a Ferrari.


34 posted on 08/31/2011 12:11:02 AM PDT by TChad
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To: WesternCulture
Cars today are built to be convenient for the owner, that doesn't mean they are built to last forever. They are disposable and the new hybrid cars are the epitome of this development since their high cost battery pack has a very finite life expectancy, at which point the vehicle is from an economic point best salvaged. Do you want to pay $3,000-4,000 for a new battery on a 13 year old, 180,000 mile car?

From adhesives and plastics that break down, to sealed lubricated areas, rust inhibitors that begin to fail, battery packs with a finite life, or even cylinders without sleeves bored straight into the block... modern cars are “buy, use, throw away.” All of them! While some older cars might require maintenance (i.e. grease fittings etc) they are designed to be serviced and are easily rebuilt. The modern car uses lots of thermoplast that makes up it's design and integrates things like headlights, bumpers... The problem is there are few generic substitutes and often car manufacturers discontinue manufacturing certain parts after the bare minimum required by law. The car is packed full with electronics, emission controls and the designs are so tight that they don't even lend themselves to easy maintenance. They require proprietary diagnostic equipment that costs thousands and “so called” mechanics at most dealerships simply replace major components but don't actually do any component level repair. The margins of error and tollerances are extreamly small, pushed by performance and efficiency demands. Modern cars tend to be less forgiving when for example the engine overheats (Aluminum heads and block) or if you hit the curb (Aluminum rims).

Most of these cars are simply screwed together by end componenets from many various suppliers and these firms are international. The designs are even shared or borrowed... A Toyota Tundra is more American than either Ford, GMC, Chevy or Dodge pickup trucks. The Mercedes ML is made in Mississippi, the BMW 3 series and some Z and X models in South Carolina... The old Ford Mustang with a 2.3 liter turbo had an engine made in Germany. The so called low quality British car you describe might have an engine made by Isuzu if it's a Lotus (Years past). Perceptions and cliche's are hard to argue after they have been established may that be for the awesome quality of one brand or the horrible poor quality of another. The way the Japanese won is by simply building awesome products and keeping the prices down, eventually having the consumer realize, "Holly crap, that Honda Accord is a really good car."

Most of the perceived differences in quality are a matter of personal perception based on limited sampling and simply good/poor advertising... There are some makes and models with design flaws (some Volvo's have a known issue with transmissions going out on them prematurely), certain makes and models do better at certain things (off road, towing, performance driving etc). But in general even the cheapest KIA is a well built car and BMW's might be in the shop constantly, but the BMW owner still think they're the best car because of how he perceives quality. At the end of the day, “quality” is a matter of perception, and even though the older 3.8 liter V-8 from Mercedes had a horrible design defect (timing chain tensioner) the make “Mercedes” is still synonymous with quality. BMW had steering wheels lock up on drivers of 3 series cars, Audi had automatic transmissions that would pop into drive after the owner would set them into neutral, Fords will catch on fire even after turned off... The perception of quality is a matter of definitions for those getting into the weeds (looking at it objectively) and positioning of brands through marketing and advertising for the common layperson that has a feeling about what quality means. Truth is, Japanese cars use to be considered “low quality” many years back when in reality already then they were kicking the crap out of both US and Euro auto makers in terms of defects per one hundred, fit and finish and durability as reported by their owners (a good source for that is consumer reports)

If you think Volvo has some awesome advantage over Toyota in safety, that's a perception and it's Volvo's angle (their marketing gimmick in the game of “product differentiation”). All makes want to differentiate their products after they establish themselves on the market. That's how you demand higher prices for your product. The makers throw in some cheesy product (the feature) that is supposed to convince you (with the money) that you should buy theirs and not the competitors product. So you end up with lots of silly crap on cars that usually only gets used seldom and then only has some marginal benefit if at all. Because Volvo is the “safe car” they throw a little IR sensor in that brakes (50% of max) the car if it thinks you're gaining on something in front of you rapidly. Of course it doesn't really work all that well nor under most circumstances (It can't, otherwise it would constantly engage when it shouldn't, or pose a safety hazzard itself), but if you construct just the right scenario and the vehicle is new and everything works, it looks real cool and adds a bullet on a sales pamphlet under the safety section.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety

http://www.safercar.gov/

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/

If I were you, and safety were the issue, I would use empirical data from a semi (politics does bleed in and they're not the end all answer) neutral source.

IMHO

35 posted on 08/31/2011 9:24:10 AM PDT by Red6
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To: WesternCulture
Good one, WC!


36 posted on 08/31/2011 12:04:58 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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