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Should Teachers be Treated Less Professionally Than Linebackers?
Michigan Capitol Confidential ^ | 9/4/2011 | Ken Braun

Posted on 09/07/2011 12:42:07 PM PDT by MichCapCon

In March, the National Education Association, the nation’s largest teachers union, sent a “Message to Congress” outlining its desired goals for K-12 public education policy and spending. Higher pay is a general theme, which fits in with the union’s ongoing “Be Proud to Say, I’m Worth Professional Pay” initiative. It quotes a study that praises the success of schools in other nations: “In South Korea, the average teacher earns more than a lawyer or an engineer.”

Yet the union’s core agenda protects a system that virtually assures that “professional pay” cannot happen. Engineers, lawyers, doctors, and so forth – even unionized pro football players – are compensated based upon their individual talent and accomplishments. There is no surprise when two lawyers in the same town, each 10 years out of law school, earn wildly different incomes based on different employment choices, ambition and talent. But such a situation is virtually unheard of with Michigan’s public school teachers...

(Excerpt) Read more at michigancapitolconfidential.com ...


TOPICS: Education
KEYWORDS: obamasactivists; overpaid; schools; socialists; tyrants

1 posted on 09/07/2011 12:42:10 PM PDT by MichCapCon
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To: MichCapCon

Lions or someone else?


2 posted on 09/07/2011 12:45:05 PM PDT by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a Permenant Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: MichCapCon

If they don’t like the pay then don’t teach.

Then again, most of them would not even be able to gets jobs sweeping floors.


3 posted on 09/07/2011 12:47:09 PM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: MichCapCon

Demonstrating how ignorant many teachers are about economics, they tend to keep going to this worn out well of comparison with pro athletes. (funny they never compare to liberal news anchors or movie stars, but that’s another story).

It’s a false choice. People are paid based on the demand for their services and on how rare their ability is. The ability to teach is, I’m sorry, just not that rare. There is plenty of supply for the demand. There is constantly a shortage of excellence at every NFL position. False choice. It’s called economics.

Pro athletes are the elite of the elite of the elite in their chosen profession. Teachers statistically come from the lowest achieving academic student populations.


4 posted on 09/07/2011 12:47:40 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: MichCapCon

To be fair, teachers should be treated in the same manner as their leader Jimmie-P Hoffa should be treated.

They are all in the same Army, so treat them the same.


5 posted on 09/07/2011 12:49:45 PM PDT by Graewoulf ( obamatrauma"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: MichCapCon

http://blog.american.com/2011/08/teachers-earn-less-for-a-reason/


6 posted on 09/07/2011 12:51:06 PM PDT by DrC
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To: MichCapCon

If they could play they’d get paid more.

80% are not qualified to teach right now.


7 posted on 09/07/2011 12:51:23 PM PDT by edcoil (The will to win is important, but the will to prepare is vital. -- Joe Paterno)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Watching the Tiger game today and head the comment that with every win Justin Verlander gets, Mike Ilitch clutches his wallet a little tighter. LOL

You pay for that kind of performance or you lose it. Few teachers can achieve that kind of success but they would have a far better chance without their union. Teachers should be contractors and they’ll get paid what they’re worth.


8 posted on 09/07/2011 12:58:41 PM PDT by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a Permenant Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: cripplecreek

Good point, and what the teachers don’t understand, and this really demonstrates how out of touch with the real world they are, is that while they fight school choice tooth and nail, it is school choice that would do for teachers what free agency did for pro athletes.

They should think about that. And tell their union to GTH.


9 posted on 09/07/2011 1:00:22 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: MichCapCon

“In South Korea, the average teacher earns more than a lawyer or an engineer.”

Lawyer? Maybe since Korea does not have the profit-driven lawsuit-happy system of the U.S.

Engineer? Almost certainly not. Many Asian countries define anyone with a technical job as an “Engineer”. Lab techs with 2 year degrees, for example.


10 posted on 09/07/2011 1:02:01 PM PDT by Locomotive Breath
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To: MichCapCon

On the other side of the coin, they should be able to be fired just as quick as these high paying NFL players.


11 posted on 09/07/2011 1:03:36 PM PDT by Moonbug
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To: MichCapCon
The problem teachers have with the term professional is not usually reserved for pay. It's about treatment and double standards on the part of districts and supervisors.They may ask you and expect you to take home more work, use your home phone to contact parents, take a working lunch.They will almost universally couch these requests as being what a professional would do. However, if you ask them for a personal day to take care of some business, which is a professional courtesy, you get the runaround.

I had a math teacher come to me once and complain the prin. would not let her take a professional day to see her son who was rotating to a temp assg't in Iowa from Iraq.He was an Lt in 101 and was on his second tour.He'd een seconded to some training assg't for six weeks and then back to Iraq. I talked to the boss who was adamant.She'd dock her pay. I said I'd make a call.She said call the union,they can't do anything.Told her I was calling Sean Hannity with the school name, her name, and the NYC Dept of Ed phone number. My math teacher friend got her day. But that's what professionalism meams to most of us.

12 posted on 09/07/2011 1:03:55 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (IACTA ALEA EST!!!)
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To: MichCapCon

These union-dependent, whiny government school teachers fail to realize that they’re OVERpaid ... compared to private school teachers.


13 posted on 09/07/2011 1:06:55 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: MichCapCon

Pro linebackers have to perform well, or else they lose their job.

The same can’t be said for union teachers.

And don’t forget, a “professional” just does it for money. An amateur does it for love. Just get someone to pay you for it, and you’re a professional. That’s it.


14 posted on 09/07/2011 1:09:01 PM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: Graewoulf

They seem to like the military analogy. How about we pay them the same as an incoming Army private and truly make them move up in rank before hitting higher pay grades? Liberals seem to believe our soldiers are paid too well, and have great benefits - perhaps it would open their eyes just a bit.


15 posted on 09/07/2011 1:09:01 PM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: MichCapCon
By definition, a professional is someone who does something for money. Thus there is no such thing as a professional public school teacher, because teaching is not what they do for money.
16 posted on 09/07/2011 1:11:36 PM PDT by icanhasbailout
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To: MichCapCon

When linebackers suck, you can tell them, “Coach wants to see you. Bring your playbook.”


17 posted on 09/07/2011 1:11:46 PM PDT by RichInOC (Palin 2012: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: icanhasbailout

It always amuses me how the variations of the word “professional” are consistently misused. Lots of people don’t seem to know what “professional” means.


18 posted on 09/07/2011 1:15:08 PM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: icanhasbailout

I once knew an amateur teacher (private highschool). He was a retired naval officer, and taught physics and math. He literally took no pay. For some sort of liability reasons, the school had to put him on the payroll, with a pittance nominally going to him. He donated that back to the school.


19 posted on 09/07/2011 1:18:17 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: MichCapCon

If they are so worried about their compensation, I suggest they go work in South Korea.


20 posted on 09/07/2011 1:19:11 PM PDT by NEMDF
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To: xkaydet65

What I do not understand is why she would take a “professional day” to see her son instead of a “personal day” or “vacation day”. Anywhere I have ever worked, we did not get paid days off to see our relatives, no matter what the situation was. I, as a taxpayer, do not think we should pay teachers or any other public employees for time off that is not part of their normal vacation/sick pay package.


21 posted on 09/07/2011 1:23:33 PM PDT by NEMDF
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To: LibertyRocks

The basic problem is that most school districts in America depend on taxing property.

When the value of property goes down ( USA house values are now down 20 %+/- from 2007 values) while the teachers salaries stay the same.

This shortfall cannot be made up because more land is not being made, and few are building more buildings.

This is a good time to shift property tax income to parts of the government that are related to property: Fire, police, courts, etc.

This is a good time for schools to shift from a fixed asset base such as property to an adjustable base such as population.

How the population is taxed should be independent of property.


22 posted on 09/07/2011 1:26:38 PM PDT by Graewoulf ( obamatrauma"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: Ted Grant

Last time I checked, not too many teachers have 50,000 or more people buying $50 tickets to watch them teach a class.


23 posted on 09/07/2011 1:30:45 PM PDT by BizBroker (Democrats- Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em, Can't use 'em, Couldn't afford 'em if I did!)
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To: MichCapCon
The idea that teaching is in any way comparable to a "learned profession" is ridiculous. The intellectual content of so-called "education" courses is near zero. As Thomas Sowell put it, everyone knows the schools of education are the dregs of the campus. Their constant whining about how poorly they're treated is getting old.
24 posted on 09/07/2011 1:33:05 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. A primer on armed revolt. Available form Amazon.)
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To: Graewoulf
This is a good time for schools to shift from a fixed asset base such as property to an adjustable base such as population.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here are few ideas that would immediately cut school expenses at no cost:

** Allow any child of any age to take the GED or similar private exam. If they pass award and official diploma from the local high school. This would immediately make the child eligible for college scholarships and loans.

( Fewer kids in school mean fewer teachers and consolidated schools.)

** Video all grades ( K -12) and all lectures and place the material on-line for any citizen of the state to use. Make textbooks available at the local library. If a child passes a private or government test showing that he as mastered the material of a particular subject, he would be immediately moved to the next level in that subject.

( The more quickly a child moves through the government K-12 system, and the more the child learns on his own, the fewer teachers and school classrooms that will be needed.)

** Finally, as parents and children learn to be more self-sufficient many will abandon the government school completely.

( The fewer kids in school, the fewer teachers and classrooms that will be needed.)

25 posted on 09/07/2011 1:39:06 PM PDT by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: JoeFromSidney
The intellectual content of so-called "education" courses is near zero.

True.

Also not entirely relevant.

I will not speak of government schools, my knowledge of them is limited.

Many years ago I taught science and math in a Catholic high school. I have never taken an "education" course in my life. At the time my highest degree was a BS in one of the traditional "hard" sciences. My wife is a teacher; she has been on the faculty of three different Catholic high schools during the >20 years of our marriage. She has never taken an "education" course, and holds a MA degree in her field of expertise. Her fellow faculty similarly hold Bachelor's or Master's degrees in the subjects they are hired to teach. The Catholic schools I'm familiar with don't look on Education courses and degrees favourably.

26 posted on 09/07/2011 1:48:25 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: MichCapCon

If they don’t like their gig, get a new one. Go play football. Or hockey. I won’t stop them, in fact I’ll pay to see it.


27 posted on 09/07/2011 1:55:51 PM PDT by cookcounty ("I love loving him," --brilliant Matha's Vinyud liberal explaining her support for Obama)
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To: MichCapCon
"In South Korea, the average teacher earns more than a lawyer.."

OK, now they're starting to win me over.

28 posted on 09/07/2011 1:56:58 PM PDT by cookcounty ("I love loving him," --brilliant Matha's Vinyud liberal explaining her support for Obama)
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To: cripplecreek

I walk to work and then back home, past the local high school. Generally speaking, I am not sure when the teachers work. I don’t see any cars in the lot on my way in or on my way home. Then when I consider their number of days off, well I figure they work about 60% of the typical professional.

If the average white collar wage in MI is $75K-90K, then the teachers are only working enough to earn $45K-54K. From what I hear, they should be taking pay cuts.....


29 posted on 09/07/2011 2:16:45 PM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the "Dave Ramsey Fan" ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: MichCapCon
"Should Teachers be Treated Less Professionally Than Linebackers?"

Professionals do useful (i.e., not social politics), continuing studies. Engineers are professionals.


30 posted on 09/07/2011 2:52:05 PM PDT by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), Army NG, '89-' 96)
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To: NEMDF
If they are so worried about their compensation, I suggest they go work in South Korea.

American teachers couldn't handle the # of hours the average K-12 Korean teacher has to put in. They have school all year long with a few breaks in between, no 3 month + summer break in the ROK.

The schools are also mostly single-sex schools. Co-ed schools are rare, and even those schools have most of the classes divided by gender. Classroom sizes are also larger, much larger than most American schools (50 students in a class is not unheard of). Study sessions can last until 10 p.m. I don't know of any American teachers teaching study hall until 10 p.m.

South Korean Education

EPIK - English Program in Korea - Public School Jobs in Korea

Send these links to the next teacher who complains about how little they get paid compared to Korean teachers. They have larger class sizes and are expected to be excellent and are expected to demand the same from their students.

31 posted on 09/07/2011 2:52:16 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("Never care what the other guy has, it is not yours and someone always has more."--isthisnickcool)
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To: MichCapCon

old addage:
Those that can, do.
Those that can’t teach.
Those that can’t do or teach,
work for the gub mint.


32 posted on 09/07/2011 3:04:16 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Obammy is little more than a quota boy with a teleprompter)
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To: Graewoulf
To be fair, teachers should be treated in the same manner as their leader Jimmie-P Hoffa should be treated. They are all in the same Army, so treat them the same.

Not all teachers are in a union. Many are not, especially in the right to work states.

33 posted on 09/07/2011 4:20:59 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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