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New Theory on Cause of Deadly Nevada Air Show Crash
Fox News ^ | 9/20/11 | hap

Posted on 09/20/2011 2:45:30 PM PDT by Talkradio03

A newly released photograph of the deadly Nevada air racing disaster suggests the pilot in the crash may have become dislodged in the cockpit. The NTSB is investigating what caused a WWII era P-51 fighter plane to crash in Reno during Friday’s race, killing 10 people and injuring 70 others.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: disconnected; disembodied; dislodged; nevadacrash; unhinged; waketurbulence
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1 posted on 09/20/2011 2:45:33 PM PDT by Talkradio03
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To: Talkradio03

Actual news source for the linked video, rather than the blog that copied it.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1170787492001/new-theory-on-cause-of-deadly-nevada-air-race-crash


2 posted on 09/20/2011 2:49:02 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Talkradio03

I read earlier that the pilot did something that kept the plane from plowing into the grandstand instead of just in front of the grandstand.

If this is true, and the pilot wasn’t in control, it was God who kept the plane from plowing into the grandstand.


3 posted on 09/20/2011 2:51:22 PM PDT by FrogMom (There is no such thing as an honest democrat!)
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To: FrogMom
'it was God who kept the plane from plowing into the grandstand.'

What? He kept it from plowing into the grandstand, but couldn't or didn't want to move it away from the ten killed and others injured?

4 posted on 09/20/2011 2:56:23 PM PDT by Palter (Even liberals need jobs.)
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To: FrogMom

I’m careful anymore before ascribing too much credit to God for such graces, inasmuch as if he really felt like helping he could’ve kept the plane from crashing in the first place. :-)


5 posted on 09/20/2011 2:58:01 PM PDT by Ramius (personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Talkradio03

We’re all fired up about one person in a plane crash.

But we’re killing hundreds of babies more than that every day, and there are nearly 60,000 alcohol-related traffic deaths every year.

Some things we just seem not to notice.

People are funny, in a not-so-funny way.


6 posted on 09/20/2011 2:58:54 PM PDT by lurk
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To: thackney

I’m thinking this is going to be de-bunked...

Those pilots are usually the only ones flying these things, and the seats are custom made and set to those body types or frames...

Things like g-forces...You need something snug and custom to take the loads on your body when flying such high performance aircraft...

They don’t do it so much in the military because you don’t know who’s going to sign for the aircraft from flight to flight sometimes...

But these racers are a little different breed...


7 posted on 09/20/2011 3:00:44 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
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To: FrogMom
I read earlier that the pilot did something that kept the plane from plowing into the grandstand instead of just in front of the grandstand.

If this is true, and the pilot wasn’t in control, it was God who kept the plane from plowing into the grandstand.

One of my pastors was 100 ft. from impact. He said the same thing, that he was looking straight up at the plane coming right at him when it suddenly disappeared from his sight and a split second later he saw it crash in his peripheral vision.

8 posted on 09/20/2011 3:01:21 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: thackney

Seven replies and nobody has blamed Obama yet? That must be a record.


9 posted on 09/20/2011 3:05:18 PM PDT by Chunga85 ("Foreclosure Fraud", TARP, "Fight Club Lawyer", Bailout)
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To: Talkradio03
This is truly a "tragedy (unlike what liberals usually refer to the Muslim officer who killed 9 people at Ft. Hood), having sat in those seats watching those same planes perform fantastic feats, I'm saddened to learn of the loss of life.

As to the cause, I merely assumed it to be Bush's fault, like every other calamity.

10 posted on 09/20/2011 3:05:18 PM PDT by zerosix (native sunflower)
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To: thackney

Thanks for the link. Not sure why hapablaplog wants credit for it.


11 posted on 09/20/2011 3:05:33 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (I can only be series in a parallel universe.)
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To: Talkradio03

Too complicated.

My initial guess was heart attack, and I’m sticking with it.

Stick right, and then foreward, which would be quite likely if it was his tikker, would produce the observed motion.


12 posted on 09/20/2011 3:09:07 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Sarah Palin - 2012 !)
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To: Chunga85

That’s because it was Bush’s fault.


13 posted on 09/20/2011 3:10:05 PM PDT by Eddie01
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To: lurk

It is strange that people only seem to notice deaths if they occur more than one at a time.


14 posted on 09/20/2011 3:11:40 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: FrogMom
The pilot experienced a 9-10g positive roll. He was unconscious. Period, end of story. And yes it is very fortunate the plane made that move in the last second.
15 posted on 09/20/2011 3:13:09 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: editor-surveyor

The observed motion was a sudden gain in altitude, then a roll over, then a dive into the ground. That motion is not consistent with your theory, but it is consistent with the theory that that pilot seat broke loose, and when the pilot went backwards he brought the stick with him causing the plane to climb suddenly, by going backward he also lost rudder control causing the plane to roll over, because he had the stick held back when the plane rolled over the climb turned into a dive.


16 posted on 09/20/2011 3:13:54 PM PDT by HerrBlucher ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Talkradio03

The pilot was 74...he could have had a heart attack.


17 posted on 09/20/2011 3:14:38 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: Palter

That is the kind of thinking that really p!$$e$ me off!

God “selectively” picks and chooses who he’s gonna kill!

Man has FREE WILL with all of it’s faults .. accidents happen to the Bad and The Good and it has NOTHING to do with GOD!


18 posted on 09/20/2011 3:15:00 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: Chunga85

That’s beacause it’s Bush’s fault, everybody knows that!


19 posted on 09/20/2011 3:16:59 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Don’t mean to make light of the tragic plane accident. I just don’t like politicians. Period.


20 posted on 09/20/2011 3:20:17 PM PDT by Chunga85 ("Foreclosure Fraud", TARP, "Fight Club Lawyer", Bailout)
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To: lurk
We’re all fired up about one person in a plane crash. But we’re killing hundreds of babies more than that every day, and there are nearly 60,000 alcohol-related traffic deaths every year. Some things we just seem not to notice. People are funny, in a not-so-funny way.

Question...what kind of God would allow that to happen?

21 posted on 09/20/2011 3:21:41 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: freejohn
Man has FREE WILL with all of it’s faults .. accidents happen to the Bad and The Good and it has NOTHING to do with GOD!

Dude, if let me know your travel itinerary so I know what plane NOT to get on.

22 posted on 09/20/2011 3:22:33 PM PDT by BRL
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To: FrogMom
I read earlier that the pilot did something that kept the plane from plowing into the grandstand instead of just in front of the grandstand.

They always say that regardless of the circumstances.

But I'm sure he would have avoided the crowd if he could have.

23 posted on 09/20/2011 3:23:10 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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To: freejohn
Man has FREE WILL with all of it’s faults .. accidents happen to the Bad and The Good and it has NOTHING to do with GOD!

Please explain about a poor little baby born with severe birth defects...whose in charge of that decision?

24 posted on 09/20/2011 3:27:12 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: stevie_d_64
You are somewhat correct. At this level, he most likely did have a custom fitted seat.

I've raced sports cars. The seats in faster racing classes are also often customized to the driver. Even when you are in a lower budget car, the seat wraps around the driver's sides and holds him in place.

However, I've also experienced a fatigue failure of a seat mount bracket in an older vintage race car. There is nothing as painful as behing held in place in a race car under heavy (high G force) turning or braking by only your seat belts, with the weight of an unsecured seat, with pieces of the broken mounting brackets and framework still attached to the seat loose against your back sliding around with you and pressing you into the belts even harder.

Even among professional teams, seat failures or seat bracket failures have occured, though they are rare. In 1993 I think it was, at Road Atlanta, the Jaguar team was using a very high downforce setup on their GTP cars, and the weak link turned out to be the seat mount brackets. All of their cars retired from the failures, and one driver went to medical with groin injuries from the seat belts when his seat mounting bracket failed under braking.

Engineers usually don't think of seats and seat mountings as being potential points of failure, or being susceptible to fatigue failures. That's a mistake.

25 posted on 09/20/2011 3:30:23 PM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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To: lurk
Look, I am pleased you've pointed out a mus-prioritization of people's outrage, but if you're going to cite a number, (alcohol-related traffic deaths) you have to be a lot more precise/correct on it.

In 2010, there were essentially 11,000 alcohol-related traffic deaths, not 60K. In fact, this number has been declining quite precipitously, and the fatality rate (deaths per mile driven) is at an all time low.

I don't want to take away from your otherwise very salient point.

In my opinion, this air-race tragedy is garnering more attention due to it's “youtubiness” (People caught it on video).

Link to statistic

26 posted on 09/20/2011 3:34:45 PM PDT by GreenAccord (Bacon Akbar)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
Question...what kind of God would allow that to happen?
Why ask that. Either you want free will, or you do not. You cannot have it both ways. We have free will, and thus some men reject God and instead do evil things.

I love it when people desire freedom of religion, then they ask why God allows evil to happen.

This world is the place we get to freely chose Him or the world. After Christ returns and the present world is fried, than those who freely chose Christ will have an eternity with Him.

Those who freely chose the world over Him will get their desire fulfilled by being permanently separated from Him forever.


27 posted on 09/20/2011 3:35:15 PM PDT by OneVike (Just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
Please explain about a poor little baby born with severe birth defects...whose in charge of that decision?

That 'decision' was made when man fell from grace! We became imperfect and thus inherited all of the sorrows and woes that come with sin and imperfection .. including imperfect genes!

Too, if a mother chooses to drink, smoke, do drugs during pregnancy .. That also could account for all sorts of maladies!

Sure sounds a LOT More scriptural than you wanting to believe that GOD makes the decision to maim a child before it is born!

28 posted on 09/20/2011 3:36:50 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: Talkradio03

Either God lets things happen or controls everything that happens. Which is it? Or does God sometimes and capriciously (or if you prefer, mysteriously) interfere, intervenes? Because if God doesn’t control human destiny, having given man free will, then why pray for miracles, for strength, for assistance?!


29 posted on 09/20/2011 3:40:02 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: FrogMom

“If this is true, and the pilot wasn’t in control, it was God who kept the plane from plowing into the grandstand.”

Oh, please, he had a control stick right there no matter if his seat fell back.


30 posted on 09/20/2011 3:46:12 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Talkradio03
A couple of things:
First; I'm a bit smug at the thought that I noted the absence of a pilot as soon as I saw that photo yesterday.

Someone has suggested a heart attack and another offered passing out from G forces.
Neither is likely since (A) these guys are the most medically checked and approved breed on earth, (B) since he'd been racing for years, he'd been hitting those same G forces for a long, long, time without blacking out, and (C) the forces in a race such as this push back and down - into the seat - not the head slamming & canopy banging you'd see in aerobatics.

Although this 'plane had raced a lot of times before, I don't think it is far-fetched to consider the seat simply breaking away from it's base, or the base from the airframe, etc. Bolts can work loose or be left loose after maintenance, and welds can fail from long use or poor technique.

It is also likely that any bulkhead behind the pilot and any equipment originally instilled there was long gone to reduce weight. He could have gone a long way back in the fuselage and a long way away from the controls and then held there because the aircraft was accelerating and he was no longer attached.

Which leaves the very chilling thought that he was trying to climb back to regain control the entire time from climb to crash.

31 posted on 09/20/2011 3:46:56 PM PDT by norton
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To: WKUHilltopper

“The pilot was 74...he could have had a heart attack.”

The pilot was 74...he could also NOT have had a heart attack.


32 posted on 09/20/2011 3:47:39 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

>> “Please explain about a poor little baby born with severe birth defects...whose(sic) in charge of that decision?” <<

.
The doctor that prescribed the drugs, the Pharma corp that made them, or the mother that consumed the junk that caused the defects.


33 posted on 09/20/2011 3:47:53 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Sarah Palin - 2012 !)
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To: freejohn
Sure sounds a LOT More scriptural than you wanting to believe that GOD makes the decision to maim a child before it is born!

Don't recall I made that assumption...you did...now after wading through your gibberish about "man falling from grace and therefore imperfect and then jumping to the fault being that the Mother chooses imperfect lifestyles, such as drinking, drugs etc.. what is it? You can't work both sides of the street...either God is in charge and control all...hence prayer works or....what.......

34 posted on 09/20/2011 3:47:58 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

“whose in charge of that decision? “

Who said anyone was?


35 posted on 09/20/2011 3:48:18 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Talkradio03
Hmmm... Let's see... An almost 70-year old airplane, with a 74-year old pilot... going to some kind of racing event where they fly as fast as possible, around pylons set up in some sort of racing course... at 400 ft altitude... with a grandstand full of spectators and lots of other innocent peeps milling about on the ground...

Why, what on earth could ever go wrong?? /s

36 posted on 09/20/2011 3:50:10 PM PDT by OKSooner ("Get a brain, morans!!")
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To: OKSooner

You obviously know little about the flying business...you really need to go post on a thread where you don’t show your azz...that being said...GO BOOMER SOONER...


37 posted on 09/20/2011 3:57:27 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: Revolting cat!
Because if God doesn’t control human destiny, having given man free will, then why pray for miracles, for strength, for assistance?!
God can do miracles if it is within His desire, but when we pray, we should end all prayer with, "Thy will be done. not my will". We do pray for strength so we can be strong in the face of such disasters, and if by His will we are blessed to miss death by a mere second or sliver of space, then we are expected to understand that our time is not up yet.

However, we also pray to be in communion with God, and to learn what it is He wants us to do. We all have a calling, but how would you know if you do not ask Him what it is. God can and does grant miracles, but only it works for the better of His glory.

Ultimately you must understand that we are nothing without Him, and it is but by His grace we even live. Who are you to ask why God does what He does? Who are we to demand anything from Him. If you truly want an answer than ask Him. However, If you are to arrogant and proud to humble yourself before the One who created everything that is, then I pity you.

As for me, I thank God that I wake up every day. I thank Him for allowing me another day in this sewer we call earth, but one day I will not wake up. That is when I will see what true beauty and excellence is. I will be in His presence for eternity. Until then, I will understand that He can do what ever he wants to do, because He is God.

I am but a creation that He made, and He can snuff me out at anytime He so chooses. Now he tells us in His words that He will give us every chance to accept His Son before our time is up, but ultimately it is our free will choice and with it come all the consequences that follow.

Until you truly accept that fact, you will forever fail to understand just what kind of blessing your life is, and when you do you will understand that anyone who dies in this world had the same chance.

As for children, well, they are always in Gods hands, and if they die early then they are spared the suffering this world brings to those who live a long life.


38 posted on 09/20/2011 4:10:37 PM PDT by OneVike (Just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: OneVike
As for children, well, they are always in Gods hands, and if they die early then they are spared the suffering this world brings to those who live a long life.

So if I understand you logic the pilots who I flew with in Vietnam when were all in our 20's, who now have their names on the wall should be grateful that they didn't have to live a long life and grow old like me and wake up with the malady's of old age....or is there an age limit...to be spared that suffering thing?

39 posted on 09/20/2011 4:18:24 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
Don't recall I made that assumption...you did...now after wading through your gibberish about "man falling from grace and therefore imperfect and then jumping to the fault being that the Mother chooses imperfect lifestyles, such as drinking, drugs etc.. what is it? You can't work both sides of the street...either God is in charge and control all...hence prayer works or....what.......

Seems to me that is exactly what you were 'trying' to brush by me, (implying)!

Mother, drugs, imperfection .. it ALL falls back on Man making his/her own decisions and those decisions are OWNED by them alone!

A little scriptural history will help ..

In the garden of eden, man was given only One command .. "Though Shall Not eat of the tree of knowledge of what is good and bad"!

This was not a Magical tree giving man some kind of in-site into what was Really good and bad .. They already Knew because they had been told by God and were perfect beings.

When they ate the fruit of the tree .. They were saying that THEY could make their own decisions on what is good and bad and no longer needed God's guidance!

That is also why they were expelled from eden so as Not having the chance to eat of the tree of eternal life .. Life that was now sinful and .. Imperfect!

From that time forward man was given the freedom to make his own decisions!

Make sense?

Prayers are for those seeking guidance and comfort .. knowing that in the end .. God will again become the one to lead us from the darkness of sin and give us perfection in eternal life!

Ever known anyone who grew new arms or legs by praying?

I'm done.

40 posted on 09/20/2011 4:28:33 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: Talkradio03

The news keeps bringing up the fact that the pilot was 74 years old. Big deal. So long as they can pass their FAA medical exam and are current in make and model of aircraft they fly then it makes no difference how old they are. Chuck Yeager flew an F-15D when he was 74. The chase plane for the flight was an F-16 Fighting Falcon piloted by Bob Hoover, a famous air-show pilot, and his wingman for the first supersonic flight was 75.


41 posted on 09/20/2011 4:32:42 PM PDT by SkyDancer (A critic is like a legless man who teaches running.)
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To: Talkradio03

Bump for reference.


42 posted on 09/20/2011 4:33:39 PM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

First let me ask if you hold this world to be a better place than heaven?

You ask me about a 20 year old, not a child. At a certain point in life a person becomes accountable before God. I would guess that a 20 year old pilot is old enough to have chosen or rejected Christ as their Lord and savior long before they were shot down over Vietnam.

Even if he did not, he was old enough to have understood good or evil, and thus be accountable to God for his choices in life. It is not a tragedy to die young if they knew Christ. What is a tragedy, is to live a full long life and never know Christ. Than they will be lost for eternity.

Think about that.. Eternity is a very, very, very long time. Even if you live to be 120, that is a very, very, very short time. We speak in terms of men, but we must understand things in the eyes of an everlasting eternal God.

However, my quote you took was for children who have yet to even understand what good or evil is when they had died. As a rule, children to young to be accountable are spared a long life of may miseries and instead get a pass to go straight to heaven. (as a rule, I am sure there are exceptions, but only God knows what those exceptions would be.)

I often times wish I could have been saved the grief of my many years of life in this world, and instead been granted a free pass to eternity without the pain I have suffered.


43 posted on 09/20/2011 4:33:43 PM PDT by OneVike (Just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: freejohn
Ever known anyone who grew new arms or legs by praying?

Not to my knowledge...do you know someone...oh...wait a minute you posed the question.

44 posted on 09/20/2011 4:34:41 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: OneVike
You ask me about a 20 year old, not a child. At a certain point in life a person becomes accountable before God. I would guess that a 20 year old pilot is old enough to have chosen or rejected Christ as their Lord and savior long before they were shot down over Vietnam.

Wait a minute...you are saying that the guys who were shot down and killed had rejected Christ... I do believe that is a deductive leap that only a fool would make..... You are starting to make a fool of yourself with statements like that.... Probably need to save yourself and shut up...or as the old saying goes...better to appear a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt!

45 posted on 09/20/2011 4:40:14 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ( WER)
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To: norton

“A couple of things:
First; I’m a bit smug at the thought that I noted the absence of a pilot as soon as I saw that photo yesterday.”

We were already discussing this here last Saturday a few minutes after the new photos came out.


46 posted on 09/20/2011 4:42:26 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter Hobbit)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

One other thing.

The age of accountability will vary between each individual.

What one person understands and is able to accept at one age may not be that same as others.

I know 12 year olds who are very knowledgeable and should be held accountable. I also know of 18 year olds who are clueless.

Ultimately God knows the heart and what one understands about good and evil.

Ultimately, every knee shall bow, and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.

The question comes from what they knew, understood, and whether they accepted or rejected Him when given the chance while alive in this world.


47 posted on 09/20/2011 4:45:05 PM PDT by OneVike (Just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

That is not what I said.

What I said was that they were old enough probably to understand the difference between good and evil.

Only they and God knows their heart, but they were obviously old enough to understand the difference between good and evil.

Where they are now only God knows.


48 posted on 09/20/2011 4:47:24 PM PDT by OneVike (Just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
You can't work both sides of the street...either God is in charge and control all...hence prayer works or....what.......

I can only go on what is implied and it seems that you 'imply' a lot!?

I can only guess that you were asking about the outcome of prayers to God?

I don't read minds so .. I don't know what .. "hence prayer works or....what...." means!?

49 posted on 09/20/2011 4:48:13 PM PDT by freejohn ("Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." --- Mark Twain)
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To: Talkradio03
That was so stupid.
An "aviation mechanic" huh?
They must be blind to the addition detail in those pictures of Jimmy's head in his lap. He's wasn't on his back.

1. Jimmy hits wake turbulence of the plane ahead of him.
2. The trim tab breaks off.
3. The elevator unloads.
4. The aircraft pitches up with > 15 Gees applied (this is known from telemetry).
5. Jimmy GLOCs, head goes forward - the G loads must have also broken his shoulder harness mounting bolts or the straps themselves (less likely) or the latch.
6. The aircraft, still at full power, goes ballistic.

There was no heroic pilot saving the day - he was just a passenger in those last few seconds.

50 posted on 09/20/2011 4:48:13 PM PDT by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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