Skip to comments.J. Edgar Hoover Biopic Punts On Gay Question
Posted on 09/21/2011 8:23:43 AM PDT by AtlasStalled
Clint Eastwood's new film about J. Edgar Hoover which stars Leonardo DiCaprio as the storied FBI Director declines to expressly address his sexuality, and leaves it to viewers to draw their own conclusion about his relationship with Associate Director Clyde Tolson.
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M. Wesley Swearingen, an agent from 1951 to 1977, writes in FBI Secrets about the long-standing rumors within the Bureau concerning Hoover and Tolson which include allegations that the FBI Director ignored the Mafia for decades because the wise guys had incriminating goods on the supposed lovers.
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The allegations were fleshed out -- so to speak -- in Official and Confidential: the Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover by Anthony Summer. A review of the book ("Partners For Life") by Sidney Urquhart for Time magazine summarizes one alleged incident as follows:
Perhaps Summers' most bizarre revelation is an account provided by Susan Rosenstiel, the wife of a liquor distiller and gambling crony. Rosenstiel recalls attending what she thought would be an elegant private party at New York City's Plaza Hotel in the company of lawyer Roy Cohn, Hoover and others. Instead, Cohn introduced Rosenstiel to a woman named "Mary," dressed in a fluffy black dress, lace stockings and high heels. It was obvious Mary was no woman. "You could see where he shaved. It was Hoover," said Rosenstiel. Joined by Cohn, Hoover stripped down to a tiny garter belt and proceeded to have sex with two young boys. Cohn later joked about the evening. "That was really something, wasn't it, with Mary Hoover?"
The "two young boys" with whom Hoover allegedly had sex perhaps were provided by Ed "the Skull" Murphy who was a long-time Genovese associate involved in the crime family's gay bar and boy prostitution rackets in New York City.
(Excerpt) Read more at bitterqueen.typepad.com ...
Can we assume this was backed up by the local pimp, 2 hookers and an unemployed confidence man?
Wow. I bet that fag-hags will be all in a dither about this ommission of Hoover’s sex life.
True or not. Gossip or fact. For a bio-pic on Hoover, homo’s probably feel that open quuerness should be the overriding theme of this movie.
The standard story is that the Mafia wouldn't do certain things (such as deal in drugs) until the 60's. That before then they limited themselves to victimless crimes.
If this story is true then the Mafia made money off sodomy and pedophilia. However bad dealing drugs is, those are worse.
So this story is total bunkum or the Mafia has been rotten to the core from a lot longer than we were originally led to believe.
I wonder if this is just another “homosexuals claiming the dead”
JEH was a superb public servant. He rejected attempts to give him more power and fought off repeated attempts by a scumbag press to hamstring law enforcement and bring him down personally.
Yes, he made mistakes. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. may have been a womanizer, but he was not a Communist. A lot of Communists, however, tagged along with his movement and helped hijack it after he was killed. They may have even had something to do with having him killed.
Those were tough times and I challenge anyone to find someone from that era who could have handled things better than J. Edgar Hoover did. There was no FBI equivalent of Ruby Ridge or Waco when Hoover was in charge.
Hollywood, of course, is anxious to slime the memory of a great public servant so we'll forget what the FBI used to be.
The gay/crossdressing rumors about Hoover were probably created by his enemies.....he held so much power, even more than many Presidents that they had to knock him down in some way. He had secret files on everyone from hollywood to politicians they acted like they had secrets on him
I haven't studied the issue, but was raised believing Hoover was a great man that cared about his country and the caliber of the people that hated him pretty much insulated him in my mind. The story I got as a young man was that the only reference to his "homosexuality" was from one witness that was in prison because of Hoover. In my mind, that was a little thin. Today, we may say Obama wasn't born in America, and the press just says, well, look who is saying it. He may very well have been a homo, but I haven't seen unvarnished proof. Jesus was not married, but I don't call Him a homosexual,....that is thin proof of anything.
We do know without a doubt, however, that MLK was meeting with communists, and Kennedy was dating a Nazi, and there were Kennedy people there with Monroe on the day she took her last breath. Without more proof than just a convicts testimony, I will just wait to see about Hoover. If their is more proof, what exactly does that mean? Are we allowed to hate homo's now because libs hated Hoover?
Sorry, but it was JEH that tied him to the communist groups through wire taps and following him. He was more than friendly with some bad figures in the '60's.
Sadly, this Big Lie has been repeated so often that there are even some FReepers who believe it.
I am sick of this crap.
If anyone wants to see how accurate the criticism of J.Edgar Hoover is and was, you need only to view criticism of the following people by the left and the media, and their treatment in the history books and news:
None of these people were saints, but none were the epitome of evil that the Left makes them out to be.
The Left largely controls what we see in the news and history textbooks, so I discount much of what we know about J.Edgar Hoover.
I love the fact that the libtards who scream the loudest and longest about trampling of the rights of citizens, deplore J.Edgar Hoover (who opposed internment of Japanese US Citizens) and they love Franklin D. Roosevelt (Who supported and ordered it)
I am sick of lying down and letting these liberal pieces of crap dictate their version of history.
- there was no sexual relationship of any type with Clyde Tolson.
- Hoover was a mama's boy that never seemed to be able to develop any meaningful relationship with women.
- Hoover deliberately and REPEATEDLY lied about the Mafia. There is some famous newsreel footage of Hoover testifying before Congress stating that, “there is no organized crime in America.” I personally know someone that was in the FBI at the time and left it to join the IRS in disgust. He said the entire organization knew better and was sick about the comments.
Did Hoover try to protect the mafia because they had something on him, possibly homosexuality? To the best of my research no definitive smoking gun has ever been found.
What is absolutely proven and true is that for some reason he tried to take the focus and the heat off of the Mafia during the 50’s and 60’s. To me, it remains the most troubling question about the man.
It’s easy to attack a dead man.
No one had that kind of balls when he was alive.
He may have been a queer, I don’t know, but he had the Congressmen, Senators and Presidents, by the balls, and no one had the courage to call him a queer to his face, or even behind his back while he lived.
I don’t think that “J. Edgar” was a fag HOWEVER I think that he was a First Class Control Freak that NO Women would put up with.
Sorry, I think you need to read more on this subject and remember what your grandmother probably told you years ago: you are or become who you hang around with so pick your friends carefully.
The cross-dressing story doesn’t seem to be very well supported and it doesn’t even make sense that Hoover would take that chance. But based on his long-term relationship with Tolson and apparent lack of interest in women, IMHO Hoover was gay unless proven otherwise. That is the most logical and simplest explanation.
Leonardo DeCaprio ?
Good gosh. Really? So he is guilty by default, and the burden is on a dead man (or anyone who wishes to defend him) to prove otherwise?
The suggestion that Hoover was just a very good friend to Tolson and not sexually interest in women OR men seems to me to be as preposterous as suggestions that Michael Jackson was “nonsexual” and “like a child” and not at all sexually interested in the young men he liked to surround himself with.
Not buying it.
could be that he was protecting informants or the entire Northeast political structure -- Particularly a certain family from Hayannisport.
The mob's control of the gay bars in New York is well known. It was their payments to the cops that kept them from getting raided. That they'd have been involved in male prostitution as well as female prostitution doesn't seem particularly shocking.
As far as the narcotics business, you've been watching too much TV. The mob was involved in the heroin trade back in the 1920s. Lucky Luciano had major control over the operation, and established the smuggling routes (often through Montreal) early on.
A few of the familiies tried to keep their people away from it, but it wasn't out of moral concern--it was out of worry about the attention it would draw from law enforcement.
“How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?”
Your tagline just begs to have the rest of the story told. I left this part out because there are obviously a lot of people on this thread that don’t want anything bad said about Hoover.
Actually the story is much worse.
The friend of mine, like many FBI agents at the time, transferred into the IRS for one simple reason. After being told to back-off on the mafia, the attitude of the agents was, screw it, we know where they live, well go after their money. Many transferred to the IRS, and for a while they went after the Mafia and had great success. Then it all came to a halt.
Mr. Hoover then committed what I consider to be his most unpardonable sin against the United States. He went to Eisenhower with some vague BS story about interference and convinced Ike that the IRS should become a compliance agency and leave the enforcement to the FBI.
Most people dont realize that prior to this despicable act, the IRS actually concentrated on REAL criminals. The current IRS, which goes after retired school teachers not reporting income from piano lessons, while it ignores drug king pins, is all the result of Hoovers desperate attempt to protect the Mafia.
And yes, after this change my friend and everyone else in the IRS was told to back-off there as well. Makes you feel good the next time you hear of someone going through one of these day long, compliance audits.
There was a hotel in Mexico that Hoover went to almost every year. It was a notorious “out of the way” spot. Many bosses and secretaries went there to play house. The Mafia decided it would be a great place to generate blackmail money, and set up people working there to take pictures. One such group of pictures shows a larger, round headed nearly bald man performing oral sex on a younger man. They have been published an I am certain can be found on the web someplace. To me, they are so grainy it could just as easily be Elmer Fudd without his hat.
At any rate the story is that once the Mafia had these pictures they were able to put Hoover in their back pocket.
Unless there are more clear pictures than the ones I've seen, I would say the evidence is inconclusive.
I don't view it as being 'guilty' of anything, just as a fact should be faced.
and the burden is on a dead man (or anyone who wishes to defend him) to prove otherwise?
I think the burden is on anyone who believes otherwise to provide a more logical explanation for the known facts about Hoover. If it wasn't Hoover and Tolson, just two guys who went everywhere together and vacationed together, had a lifelong devotion to each other and had no interest in women, everybody would just accept that yes, they are most likely gay.
Neo-Nazis say that Winston Churchill was a cross-dressing queer. See the parallel between Euro-fascists in their propaganda?
What you say is 100% true. To which it should be added that FDR's bipartisan hatchet man in that whole sorry episode was none other than Earl Warren, the same Earl Warren who would become a hero to the left for judicial activism on the supreme court.
For a balanced portrait of Mr. Hoover read Hoover’s FBI by
Cartha D. Deloach (Former FBI Deputy Director).
On ML King and the FBI read Hellhound On His Trail by Hampton Sides.
It is also documented that Dr. King counted many Republicans among his supporters as well. Charlton Heston, George Romney and the GOP Senator from Maryland (name slips my mind) who replaced Senator Tydings, racist hero of the left who took down Joe McCarthy, are just three of many which come immediately to mind.
Dr. King was a registered Republican. I don't believe it was ever established that he was a card carrying Communist.
Regardless of J. Edgar Hoover’s sexual proclivities, the real problem was his longevity in office. He was appointed by Calvin Coolidge (!) and ran the agency until the Nixon administration, almost 48 years. That is way too long for any person to run a government agency.
It’s true he created the modern FBI, but he also ran it as a personal fiefdom. That’s the problem I have with him. All the problems with the FBI in his later years grew from the fact he had been in office too long and was never challenged.
But the left lionizes the s.o.b. for what he did to Senator Joseph McCarthy.
I know more than a few men who are not homosexuals, in their forties, and have just given up on dating, marriage and everything that goes along with it. They have just had it, and it isn’t worth it to them.
Who knows what is in the mind of others? To characterize a man as a sodomite because he is unmarried is not not only unfair, but mean spirited as well.
Perhaps your life experiences haven’t been broad enough to know just how wrong that assumption is, I don’t know you. But I know from my own experience that what you say is simply not true.
This is the very reason why the IRS was created. Not for collecting revenue for operating the government but for collecting information on each and every citizen. This is a concept that should be repugnant to anyone who has even a passing knowledge of Liberty. As to Hoover, I'm not even sure the establishment of the FBI was consistent with a strict reading of the Constitution but I like that when they started the "agents" were required to bring local police with them to make an arrest and the police were the only ones who could do so. Under Hoover that changed as did the prohibition against agents carrying firearms. I think there are far more things to be angry with Hoover about (and the Congress that let him get away with it) than silly rumors about cross dressing. I also think he was in power for much too long and may have been mentally diminished to some degree at the end.
The head of the FBI reports to the Attorney General. It was FDR who authorized Hoover to come directly to him. FDR didn't want people to know how suspicious he was of the labor movement (man that drives liberals crazy). He had Hoover spying on them throughout the 30's.
That's right, he and Bobby were both suspicious of the civil rights movement. Liberals heads explode when you mention that all of the wiretapping and spying that Hoover did on Marting Luther King was with warrants signed by ROBERT KENNEDY.
He was totally suspicious of the antiwar movement and gave Hoover complete authority to go after them with every means possible.
Oh yea, Nixon.
He hated Hoover, had nothing to do with him, and made no secret of his plans to fire him as soon as he was elected a second time. Many people suspect Hoover blew the whistle on the whole Watergate thing because he knew Nixon was going to get rid of him.
Liberals have done a magnificently job of linking Hoover and Nixon as well as Hoover and Republicans, when in fact all of his worst excesses occurred under LIBERAL DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS!
Their patron saint of world peace, Woody Wilson, loved the APL and their tactics that were much like a certain German movement of a few years later.
The American Protective League
By the first year of WWI, American political leadership was ferreting out disloyalty and enforcing scientific conformity. Any number of private and secret societies appeared to forward this cause. The "Anti-Yellow Dog League" was one of these, composed of schoolboys above the age of ten, who searched out disloyalty each day from one of its thousand branches nationwide, barking like German shepherds when a disloyal yellow dog, otherwise someone looking like you or me, was flushed from cover and branded. Schools enthusiastically cooperated in "Dog Hunts," as they were called.
The U.S. Justice Department secretly empowered private associations as volunteer spy-hunters. One, the American Protective League (APL), earned semi-official status in the national surveillance game, in time growing to enormous size. Founded by a Chicago advertising man, the APL had twelve hundred units functioning across America, all staffed by business and professional people. It was a genuine secret society replete with oath and rituals. Membership gave every operative the authority to be a national policeman. The first location placed under surveillance in every neighborhood was the local public school. Assignments were given by the old (Federal) Bureau of Investigation and by the War Departments Intelligence Division to report on "seditious and disloyal" conversation. From the authorized history of the APL comes this specimen case:
Powers County, Colorado: investigated fifty cases of mouth-to-mouth propaganda, a notable cause being that of a German Lutheran minister who refused to answer the questions as to which side he wished to win the war. He asked for time. The next day he declared very promptly that he wanted the United States to win. He was instructed to prove this by preaching and praying it in private as well as in public, which he agreed to do.
The APL checked up on people who failed to buy Liberty Bonds. It spotted violators of food and gasoline regulations, rounded up draft evaders in New York, disrupted Socialist meetings in Cleveland, broke strikes, threatened union men with immediate induction into the army. The attorney general of the United States reported to Congress, "It is safe to say never in history has this country been so thoroughly policed."
It is something that keeps me awake at night -- why this is verified fact and is virtually unknown today
Words are mere man-given symbols for thoughts and feelings, and they are grossly insufficient to express the thoughts in my mind and the feelings in my heart that I have for you, Hoover wrote to Tolson in 1943. I hope I will always have you beside me.
See #38, #39.
J. Edgar was shown in a dress in the movie. The movie seemed to suggest that Hoover was gay.
Overall, the movie was good and a lot better than some films I have seen recently.
Incidently, the film also insinuates that Hoover couldn't blackmail Roosevlelt with a suggestive letter from his wife to her lesbian lover, because Roosevelt knew about the relationship, and was cool with it. It also has a wiretap of President Kennedy having sex with "as East German Communist," and AG Bobby Kennedy more interested persuing Martin Luther King than further prosecution of Communist infiltrators.
Look, it is high time people on this website come to terms with the fact that libertarians and conservatives are different KINDS of Republicans. Federal law enforcement is not popular among libertarians.
As the son of a retired FBI agent, I am glad I did not see this movie with my father, as we originally planned. I am going to to him and my mother into seeing the Margaret Thatcher biopic instead. Maybe it will get into her alleged affair with Ronald Reagan.
I don’t buy the concept of Hoover as a flaming homosexual. If he was a homosexual, he kept it under wraps.
Those stories about him going to cocktail parties in drag and engaging in widely attended group orgies are horse hooey, in my opinion.
It is a standard slander by the left who claim to love homosexuality, yet use it as their favorite malediction against anyone who disagrees with them.
Saw this movie tonight. Complete F A I L.
I enjoyed the movie
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