Posted on 10/01/2011 3:37:24 PM PDT by JOHN W K
I can’t imagine a true patriot proposing a new tax, a national consumption tax which would tax every necessity of life, in addition to keeping corporate taxes and taxes on the working person’s wage.
I also can’t imagine a true patriot proposing a new general tax among the States [Herman’s national sales tax] to feed the beast in Washington, and ignoring the rule of apportioning that tax among the States as required by our founding fathers clear intentions.
The rule of apportioning any general tax among the States was adopted by our founders to cure a vicious evil of democracy. The evil being, when 51 percent of the people in a “democracy” use their vote to tax away the property of the remaining 49 percent of the population. Unfortunately we now have a situation in America under which 45 percent of the nation’s voting population pay no income tax and yet, they were instrumental in putting Obama in the White House!
Our founders saw this very kind of evil [representation in Congress without a proportional financial obligation] and to protect against such evil they adopted the rule of apportionment to be strictly enforced if imposts and duties (taxes at our water’s edge) and internal taxes on “judiciously selected” articles of consumption, were found insufficient to meet Congress’ expenditures, in which case a general tax was then to be laid among the States but only in compliance with the rule of apportionment which predetermines each State’s share of a total sum being raised, the formula being:
FAIR SHARE OF ANY DIRECT TAX AMONG THE STATES
State`s Pop.
_________ X SUM NEEDED = STATE`S SHARE OF DIRECT TAX
U.S. pop.
This rule of apportionment, which precludes the class warfare game now being played upon us by our folks in Washington, is articulated in several of our State Ratification documents, e.g.. see Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New Hampshire; June 21, 1788
Fourthly That Congress do not lay direct Taxes but when the money arising from Impost, Excise and their other resources are insufficient for the Publick Exigencies; nor then, untill Congress shall have first made a Requisition upon the States, to Assess, Levy, & pay their respective proportions, of such requisitions agreeably to the Census fixed in the said Constitution in such way & manner as the Legislature of the State shall think best and in such Case if any State shall neglect, then Congress may Assess & Levy such States proportion together with the Interest thereon at the rate of six per Cent per Annum from the Time of payment prescribed in such requisition-
While the rule of apportioning would still be applied to representation under Herman’s new national sales tax, i.e.,
State`s Pop.
___________ X House size (435) = State`s No.of Reps.
U.S. pop.
Herman ignores applying the rule of apportionment to his new tax and in so doing would deny the People of those States who pay the lion’s share under it their representation in Congress proportionately equal to the financial contribution.
Now, let us take a look at the founder’s clear intentions for any general tax laid among the States:
Pinckney addressing the S.C. ratification convention with regard to the rule of apportionment says:
“With regard to the general government imposing internal taxes upon us, he contended that it was absolutely necessary they should have such a power: requisitions had been in vain tried every year since the ratification of the old Confederation, and not a single state had paid the quota required of her. The general government could not abuse this power, and favor one state and oppress another, as each state was to be taxed only in proportion to its representation“__ 4 Elliot‘s, S.C., 305-6
Also see: “The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil” 3 Elliot`s, 243, “Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution
And, Mr. Madison goes on to remark about Congress’s “general power of taxation” that, "they will be limited to fix the proportion of each State, and they must raise it in the most convenient and satisfactory manner to the public." 3 Elliot‘s, 255
And then there is Mr. PENDLETON‘S comment which goes directly to the evil of democracy being corrected by the rule of apportionment:
“The apportionment of representation and taxation by the same scale is just; it removes the objection, that, while Virginia paid one sixth part of the expenses of the Union [under the Articles of Confederation], she had no more weight in public counsels than Delaware, which paid but a very small portion” 3 Elliot‘s 41
So, for those who are loyal defenders of our Constitution, shouldn’t Herman Cain be asked the following question during Atlanta’s coming debate, perhaps by Michelle Bachmann?
“Mr. Cain,
In the implementation of your 999 plan proposing to tax incomes and tax the wages which working people earn when selling the property each has in their labor, you want an addition tax to feed the beast in Washington, a national sales tax.
Why have you not required your national sales tax to be apportioned among the States, as intended by our founder’s, and was intended to protect our nation from a vicious evil of democracy?”
BTW, as I pointed out elsewhere, the only reason why Herman won Florida’s straw poll is because the 3,500 delegates who voted in Florida’s poll were hand selected by the Republican party county’s executive committee and The Republican Party of Florida i.e., the freaken Establishment! And the Establishment has been trying to get an across the board federal tax on consumption [national sales tax, valued added tax, fairtax, etc.], for years, in addition to keeping existing income taxation, to feed to beast in Washington!
JWK
"If the Constitution was ratified under the belief, sedulously propagated on all sides, that such protection was afforded, would it not now be a fraud upon the whole people to give a different construction to its powers?"___ Justice Story
In addition, under Cain’s plan, a working person would not only pay a 9 percent tax upon every necessity of life he purchases, but an additional 9 percent on the wages he earns when selling the property each has in their own labor.
Is this in harmony with our founding father’s thinking? I think not:
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvementand shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address
I think the answer to real tax reform is to add the following 32 words to our Constitution which would return us to our Constitution's ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as our founders intended it to operate:
The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money
JWK
Our federal government personifies a living creature, a predator: it grows, it multiplies, it protects itself, it feeds on those it can defeat, and does everything to expand its powers and flourish, even at the expense of enslaving a nation’s entire population.
I think of my 80 year old mother for example. She is on a fixed income (SSI) people like her would be stuck paying the extra 9% without any extra money.
Is that fair? Is that right?
Ahh... another one that has no clue the difference between the regional federal reserve banks and the board of governors in DC. Here is a hint, Just because "Fed" is in the title doesn't mean they do the same thing any more than FedEx does. The regional federal reserve banks have nothing to do with monetary policy, currency valuation, or any of that Jekyll Island stuff. They have a unique and indepedent role from the Board of Governor's in DC that most folks associate with the Fed.
Accusing Cain of being part of that is like saying he is part of the mafia for running "Godfather's" pizza.
Ruh roh... it seems that Herman is about to get slings and arrows..
Personally I would like Herman to kick Obama square in the nuts, but it seems he is now the focus of scrutiny rather than Perry.
I like Herman, I really do, but I think the 999 plan is unworkable, I think he has no understanding of US Government and I think his having had stage 4 cancer is a problem.
Again, folks need to learn Gross versus Net. She is already spending 30% corporate tax written into the prices of goods and services she buys. That would go down to 9% corporate + 9% sales, or 18%- in other words a decrease she has to spend of 12%. She wouldn't be spending 9% more, she would be spending 12% less.
Any plan that purports to be “revenue neutral” is not to my liking because it supports the notion that the federal government needs this much money. The government could cut spending in half as far as I am concerned and still not be fully within the bounds of Constitutional restraint.
Welfare is one place. How many different programs and bureaucracies are there to help “the poor” these days?
There should be ONE welfare program. Let it be a monthly cash dole, make the recipients show up in person and be subjected to a random “audit” to see if they really are poor. That’s a lot of bureaucrats out of work, lol.
No Dept of Education and a lot of other things should be abolished too.
My mother lives off of Social security and she’s as excited as hell about this plan.
Because she realizes that overall, prices will go down. The 9% tax will be a wash or better than what we’re paying now.
And if my husband and i get the $7000 estimated tax savings that the Fair Tax calculator says we’ll get, we might be able to actually be able to afford to help our parents out in their old age.
Imagine that. Family being able to afford to take responsibility for family instead of leaving it in the lap of the government.
JWK
You are calling Herman Cain evil????? I stop listening to you right there, since you are obviously projecting your own main characteristic.
One of the good things Bachmann has proposed is ditching the department of ed and handing control back over to the states. She’s also pointed out that federal highways are fully funded but the money is spent elsewhere while Bammy is squealing about needing more money for trains.
Personally I would eliminate corporate taxes and most regulation. The only thing those taxes and regulations do is provide incentive for crony corruption.
SSI is not taxable income, I don’t think
One thing that won't happen is prices coming down. I admit inflation would probably be slowed down, but prices will not come down. They never do.
Herman had better address how he will rid of us income tax before he legislates a 9% national sales tax.
We could end up with both.
And I already pay 8 and 3/4 sales tax here in Texas.
Am I to pay 17 and 3/4% on daily goods?
There's an extra 9% sales tax that would effect everything my mother buys.
Her working days are over and she's never getting another raise. It's just not fair to people like her.
LOL...oh, the Anti-Cain forces are mobilizing. This should be fun. Folks, do your homework on Cain and the 9-9-9 plan...it won’t make you look so foolish. Now, before you call Herman anti-American, reflect some of the other candidates running. One, proposed Obama style health care on his people. One believes we don’t have a heart if we oppose tuition for illegals. One cries everytime a terrorist is killed. So, for my money, I am going with the man with a plan. Herman Cain!!!
I have always wondered how much the price of everything we buy is because of corporate taxes.
And I’m sure most here know what I mean by the Establishment Republicans, such as those who embraced the un-constitutional No Child Left Behind Act Hey, isn’t that our current Republican Speaker of the House in the picture with a big fat grin on his face?
JWK
Our federal government personifies a living creature, a predator: it grows, it multiplies, it protects itself, it feeds on those it can defeat, and does everything to expand its powers and flourish, even at the expense of enslaving a nation’s entire population.
Prices do come down. Ever take a course in economics?
“Mr. Cain,
In the implementation of your 999 plan proposing to tax incomes and tax the wages which working people earn when selling the property each has in their labor, you want an addition tax to feed the beast in Washington, a national sales tax.
Why have you not required your national sales tax to be apportioned among the States, as intended by our founder’s, and was intended to protect our nation from a vicious evil of democracy?”
JWK
“The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil” 3 Elliot`s, 243, “Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our selection between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat in our drink, in our necessities and comforts, in our labors and in our amusements, for our callings and our creeds...our people.. must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live.. We have not time to think, no means of calling the mis-managers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow suffers. Our landholders, too...retaining indeed the title and stewardship of estates called theirs, but held really in trust for the treasury, must...be contented with penury, obscurity and exile.. private fortunes are destroyed by public as well as by private extravagance.
This is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle becomes a precedent for a second; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of society is reduced to mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering... And the fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in it's train wretchedness and oppression."
Thomas Jefferson on Taxation And Public Debt
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