Posted on 10/01/2011 3:37:24 PM PDT by JOHN W K
I can’t imagine a true patriot proposing a new tax, a national consumption tax which would tax every necessity of life, in addition to keeping corporate taxes and taxes on the working person’s wage.
I also can’t imagine a true patriot proposing a new general tax among the States [Herman’s national sales tax] to feed the beast in Washington, and ignoring the rule of apportioning that tax among the States as required by our founding fathers clear intentions.
The rule of apportioning any general tax among the States was adopted by our founders to cure a vicious evil of democracy. The evil being, when 51 percent of the people in a “democracy” use their vote to tax away the property of the remaining 49 percent of the population. Unfortunately we now have a situation in America under which 45 percent of the nation’s voting population pay no income tax and yet, they were instrumental in putting Obama in the White House!
Our founders saw this very kind of evil [representation in Congress without a proportional financial obligation] and to protect against such evil they adopted the rule of apportionment to be strictly enforced if imposts and duties (taxes at our water’s edge) and internal taxes on “judiciously selected” articles of consumption, were found insufficient to meet Congress’ expenditures, in which case a general tax was then to be laid among the States but only in compliance with the rule of apportionment which predetermines each State’s share of a total sum being raised, the formula being:
FAIR SHARE OF ANY DIRECT TAX AMONG THE STATES
State`s Pop.
_________ X SUM NEEDED = STATE`S SHARE OF DIRECT TAX
U.S. pop.
This rule of apportionment, which precludes the class warfare game now being played upon us by our folks in Washington, is articulated in several of our State Ratification documents, e.g.. see Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New Hampshire; June 21, 1788
Fourthly That Congress do not lay direct Taxes but when the money arising from Impost, Excise and their other resources are insufficient for the Publick Exigencies; nor then, untill Congress shall have first made a Requisition upon the States, to Assess, Levy, & pay their respective proportions, of such requisitions agreeably to the Census fixed in the said Constitution in such way & manner as the Legislature of the State shall think best and in such Case if any State shall neglect, then Congress may Assess & Levy such States proportion together with the Interest thereon at the rate of six per Cent per Annum from the Time of payment prescribed in such requisition-
While the rule of apportioning would still be applied to representation under Herman’s new national sales tax, i.e.,
State`s Pop.
___________ X House size (435) = State`s No.of Reps.
U.S. pop.
Herman ignores applying the rule of apportionment to his new tax and in so doing would deny the People of those States who pay the lion’s share under it their representation in Congress proportionately equal to the financial contribution.
Now, let us take a look at the founder’s clear intentions for any general tax laid among the States:
Pinckney addressing the S.C. ratification convention with regard to the rule of apportionment says:
“With regard to the general government imposing internal taxes upon us, he contended that it was absolutely necessary they should have such a power: requisitions had been in vain tried every year since the ratification of the old Confederation, and not a single state had paid the quota required of her. The general government could not abuse this power, and favor one state and oppress another, as each state was to be taxed only in proportion to its representation“__ 4 Elliot‘s, S.C., 305-6
Also see: “The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil” 3 Elliot`s, 243, “Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution
And, Mr. Madison goes on to remark about Congress’s “general power of taxation” that, "they will be limited to fix the proportion of each State, and they must raise it in the most convenient and satisfactory manner to the public." 3 Elliot‘s, 255
And then there is Mr. PENDLETON‘S comment which goes directly to the evil of democracy being corrected by the rule of apportionment:
“The apportionment of representation and taxation by the same scale is just; it removes the objection, that, while Virginia paid one sixth part of the expenses of the Union [under the Articles of Confederation], she had no more weight in public counsels than Delaware, which paid but a very small portion” 3 Elliot‘s 41
So, for those who are loyal defenders of our Constitution, shouldn’t Herman Cain be asked the following question during Atlanta’s coming debate, perhaps by Michelle Bachmann?
“Mr. Cain,
In the implementation of your 999 plan proposing to tax incomes and tax the wages which working people earn when selling the property each has in their labor, you want an addition tax to feed the beast in Washington, a national sales tax.
Why have you not required your national sales tax to be apportioned among the States, as intended by our founder’s, and was intended to protect our nation from a vicious evil of democracy?”
BTW, as I pointed out elsewhere, the only reason why Herman won Florida’s straw poll is because the 3,500 delegates who voted in Florida’s poll were hand selected by the Republican party county’s executive committee and The Republican Party of Florida i.e., the freaken Establishment! And the Establishment has been trying to get an across the board federal tax on consumption [national sales tax, valued added tax, fairtax, etc.], for years, in addition to keeping existing income taxation, to feed to beast in Washington!
JWK
"If the Constitution was ratified under the belief, sedulously propagated on all sides, that such protection was afforded, would it not now be a fraud upon the whole people to give a different construction to its powers?"___ Justice Story
While prices fluctuate, they creep up steadily do to market forces. One way to look at it is for every 1 cent decrease there's a 2 cent increase in the making due to inflation and other factors.
Can you honestly argue that prices come down when you know full well in the long run prices always steadily creep up? What was the price of a quart of milk in 1900? What was it in 1960? What is it today?
Your insult about my education level was duly noted and I'll just say it's none of your business.
AND WE WOULD NOT HAVE THIS TAXATION PROBLEM IF WE DID NOT HAVE MASSIVE PUBLIC DEBT.
FUBO!
Everyone wants to starve the beast. But I want a nation that I can be proud of with an infrastructure that is safe and up to date and an efficient government that works for the people and not global business.
The government workers (and especially the political elite) should have benefits and compensation and pensions comparable to the private sector. If we are going to force private sector laborers to work until they are 70, then civil service, cops and military should not be retiring in their 40s.
I’m willing to pay taxes to accomplish that as long as they are not funding corruption at the bottom (welfare) and at the top (corporate crony welfare) and waste in government. Lets reward whistle-blowers as a start. The military too needs cut significantly to force a culture of efficiency in the system. Anyone who has served is aware their is no single entity in the world that wastes more billions than the DOD. Our defense of the world on our dime needs to end now. Other nations who benefit from our defense should be paying their way.
Have you ever seen prices on goods drop once raised? I haven’t. Ditto the taxes. How long will it be before that 999 is increased to 202020? These are spendaholic politicians. Do you actually trust them? I don’t.
Secondly, it is a way to continue to tax the Boomers who already have been taxed to death virtually all their working lives. They are the longest, highest taxed generation in history.
16th amendment was not legally ratified .
It is not a TAX ON INCOME.
It is a tax for using the Federal Reserve Banks $$$$$
It is not our money, but theirs. The FRB.
Why do you think they (FRB) pay the Treasury for printing their $$$?
Why do you think that on the dollar, the Federal Reserve Bank is above the United States of America?
The lender is ALWAYS listed above the borrower.
i’m sure food would not be included...but i wonder about homes. It would make a difference to us in buying a car though.
Amen
Everything is included. A 9% tax on top of what you already pay for goods and services.
Perhaps I am wrong.
Maybe Mr Cain can clarify?
Maybe you can clarify, you’re the one who is out there spreading misinformation.
Obviously you haven’t read the plan! You write posts like an Obama liberal.
You want to write out the details for me?
Phase 1 - 9-9-9
Current circumstances call for bolder action.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan incorporates the features of Phase One and gets us a step closer to Phase two.
I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan unites Flat Tax supporters with Fair tax supporters.
Achieves the broadest possible tax base along with the lowest possible rate of 9%.
It ends the Payroll Tax completely – a permanent holiday!
Zero capital gains tax
Ends the Death Tax.
Eliminates double taxation of dividends
Business Flat Tax – 9%
Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone.
Individual Flat Tax – 9%.
Gross income less charitable deductions.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
National Sales Tax – 9%.
This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game.
Phase 2 – The Fair Tax
Amidst a backdrop of the economic boom created by the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
The Fair Tax would ultimately replace individual and corporate income taxes.
It would make it possible to end the IRS as we know it.
The Fair Tax makes our exported goods and services the most competitively internationally than any other tax system.
Phase 1 Enhanced Plan – Summary
Unites all tax payers so we all pay income taxes and no one pays payroll taxes
Provides the least incentive to evade taxes and the fewest opportunities to do so
Lifts a $430 billion dead-weight burden on the economy due to compliance, enforcement, collection, etc.
Is fair, neutral, transparent, and efficient
Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors
Ends all payroll taxes
Ends the Death Tax
Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits
Lowest marginal rates on production
Allows immediate expensing of business investments
Eliminates double taxation of dividends
Increases capital formation. Capital per worker drives productivity and wage growth
Capital formation will aid capital availability for small businesses
Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to revitalize our inner cities
We all know the Fed has tripled the money supply since 2008. They have been printing money out of thin air to finance the Obama spending machine. While true Fed reform that restores sound money may have to wait for my election, the best thing we can do now is to pursue policies that increase the DEMAND for dollars to help mitigate the risks associated with the increase in the supply.
Pro-growth economic policies equal a strong dollar policy
It sounds like gobbeldy gook to me.
So much for forward and simple.
WTF is an empowerment zone?
"Brilliant" I'll buy two...
Alinskyite: Still spreading information aren’t you? Post a link to the plan moron.
A sales tax is an indirect tax, so the apportionment rules in the Constitution don't apply.
The Constitution stipulates, "No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken."
Sales tax is not a 'direct tax'.
Now, please take the time and go back to the top of the thread and read the words of our founding fathers with respect to any general tax laid among the States.
A sales tax is an excise tax, as it is applied to specific goods. There is no apportionment requirement to federal excise taxes. The words 'general tax' are nowhere to be found in the Constitution.
These are Hermans words from his website.
Can you help me to understand it?
I am just a dumb illegal lovin Texan and I aint real good at politicin’
Read 2 posts up Mr name caller
Thank you.
Well, ok.
The country is ready for the flat tax... why don’t any of the other candidates offer it? Herman Cain has real guts and has managed to offer a tax plan that captures the imagination. If Romney or Perry did something like this it could help them immensely.
3 posts up
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