Posted on 11/18/2011 9:04:36 PM PST by Kevmo
Swedish physicists run the site Ecat.com
Av: Mats Lewan
Publicerad igår, 14:04
UPDATED. Four Swedish entrepreneurs, two of them particle physicists, run the site Ecat.com which since a couple of days takes pre-orders for Andrea Rossi’s E-cat. Ny Teknik got an interview”.
Ny Teknik can now confirm that a British company, Hydrofusion, is behind the website Ecat.com which launched with full content on November 16, 2011”.
The site was anonymous at launch, but Andrea Rossi, the inventor of the E-cat, stated that the website represented his North Europe commercial branch”.
Hydrofusion is run by four Swedish entrepreneurs – CEO Magnus Holm, Niclas Sandström who is operations manager in the UK, sales manager Peter La Terra and Stefan Helgesson who is a web strategist”.
Magnus Holm has a D.Tech and Niclas Sandström a PhD in elementary particle physics at Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenburg”.
NyT: Magnus Holm, what is the purpose of the site Ecat.com?
Holm: “The aim is to be a portal to all stakeholders regarding the E-cat. In particular, we want to be as officially linked to Rossi as possible in order to capture as much commercial interest as possible through Ecat.com.”
NyT: What is your contract with Andrea Rossi?
Holm: “I can’t go into details yet”“.
NyT: Why did you start this venture?
Holm: “I had noticed the discussion on Rossi at the end of 2010. I usually laugh at most of what is called “free energy”, but the difference with cold fusion is that it definitely is an exothermic reaction (it releases energy if it happens). So we followed the test in Bologna in January 2011 on the web. And when Ny Teknik started to report, we began to look seriously at it. Then when Kullander and Essén wrote their report from Bologna in March, it had become so likely that it was real that we decided to start a venture. There was too much supporting it – all researchers who actually looked at the technology thought that it worked.”
NyT: What did you do then?
Holm: “We started by developing a web strategy in order to sell these products online.”
NyT: How did you get in touch with Rossi?
Holm: “We met him at the Defkalion press conference in Athens, Greece, in June 2011 and then booked a meeting with him later on. We had already tried to contact Defkalion which at that time had a contract with Rossi, but never received a response. Then we met with Rossi in Uppsala in July and told him about our plans and he thought it sounded interesting. Eventually we got a verbal agreement and later a letter of intent. In the meantime, we built a structure on the web.”
NyT: There is great skepticism about Rossi’s technology. How do comment on that?
Holm: “Until he makes an independent test, there is obviously a small chance that it does not work. We are willing to take that risk because it’s such an amazing technology if it works. Further support that it’s real comes from the fact that all independent physicists who have observed the tests are positive, and have expressed belief in the mechanism. I do not have much sympathy for the crowd of skeptics who insist in spending substantial time and energy, just to be able to boast a ‘what did I say’ if it should turn out to be wrong.”
NyT: How is this different from other things you are skeptical to?
Holm: “There are so many quacks in all subjects but often it shines through. Quacks know nothing, they learn a few words but they are not even mathematically consistent. But if a person comes with a theory, sets up his axioms, does the math correctly, then it is proper research and have the right to come forward.”
NyT: You have already been accused of contributing to fraud. What is your comment?
Holm: “We are not engaged in any deception, and I do not think Rossi is engaged in any fraud either. If it would turn out that it does not work, in spite of everything, I would think it is about self-deception. I believe it works. It seems strange that Focardi who has done research in this area for over 15 years and helped Rossi for four years, might have measured wrong during the entire period. It seems unlikely. However, this does of course not mean that you’ll obtain a final product that works. But fraud requires intent and I think that can be excluded. Rossi does not talk about advance of money, which could lead to suspicions of fraud. Perhaps he could deliver a product that does not work and then you can end up in schism on that, but this does not mean fraud. From our side there is in any case no attempt of fraud.”
NyT: How will you ensure that the products work before you sell them?
Holm: “This is a difficult question as it’s Rossi’s responsibility that the product works. We only act as agents. But because there are powerful forces who want to argue that it’s all about fraud, we will make one or more of the following to prove our honesty”.
1. Explain the risk with such a premature product to the customer and ensure that customers are forced only to take a minimal financial risk”.
2. Try to arrange a complete product testing before any payment is made”.
3. Ensure that all payments are done through an escrow account with a full refund if the products do not meet the specifications”.
4. Through potential funding move the financial risk from the customer to Hydrofusion”.
5. Arrange an independent reactor test as a reference that in all cases the core process works”.
The real risk is only with the first product sales. Rossi will have to correct until the first product is operating and it will then be a reference. When the first product works, the risk with the next one is greatly reduced.”
NyT: You are now taking pre-orders. When do you think you can offer commercial products?
Holm: “It's hard to say, but if the core technology works it should be possible to start mass production within one to two years. Test products can be delivered very soon, though.”
NyT: When do you think rival products will arrive?
Holm: “I think it will explode sooner or later. In a best case for Rossi, I think it takes three years from when he has serial products on the market. In a worst case it takes two to three years from now. Then he will compete against the others now. And in that case, if he doesn't have commercial products on the market within two to three years, the one with the best product and the best marketing resources will win the market, especially for consumer products. For industrial products a good network is also important to quickly gain market.”
NyT: Which do you expect to be the first applications?
Holm: “Energy in district heating systems and desalination of water. After that electricity generation on a large scale. For consumer products, security requirements are completely different and also requirements for reliability to avoid that service costs go out of control, so they will arrive further ahead.”
NyT: Whathas the response been so far?
Holm: “Far better than expected”“.
- - - -
UPDATE: Members of the Hydrofusion team were present at the October 6 test of the Ecat and the October 28 test of the heat plant. They also met with Rossi for a private demonstration of the Ecat at the end of July”.
- - - -
READ MORE: Our complete coverage on Rossi's E-cat can be found here“.
FAKTA The E-cat
The 'energy catalyzer' is loaded with nickel powder and a number of secret catalysts and is pressurized with hydrogen gas. Excess heat is possibly produced via an unknown nuclear reaction, involving nickel and hydrogen”.
Several semipublic tests have been made to demonstrate the release of net energy but no independent tests have yet been done”.
On October 28, 2011, a heat plant composed by 107 Ecat modules was tested by an anonymous customer. In a report the customer claimed a released net power of 479 kW in self sustained mode”.
The Cold Fusion Ping List
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles -------------------------------------------------------------- http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144
Unfortunately, if Rossi did the following:
1) hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps,
2) created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos,
3) bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos
4) arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real,
5) got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field,
6) got Bushnell to make a fool of himself,
7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,
8) sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; ----- certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device ----- and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan
9) and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion ----- to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, ----- to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam
[the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars ----- until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table ----- because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes ----- and knows that they will just take his word for it ----- and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) ]
10) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out
then, yes, all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses.
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3347150.ece
The Cold Fusion Ping List
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles
add two particle physicists to the circle of supposed conspirators
It’s still voodoo until it’s been reverse engineered.
It is all about fraud.
It is all about fraud.
***Sure. Add 2 more particle phycisists to the lists of fraudsters /s
Then buy one, and reverse engineer it.
Wanna make sure I got one of the magic ones.
Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic.
they spoke of being somewhat convinced, hopeful, but saying things like:
“Until he makes an independent test, there is obviously a small chance that it does not work. We are willing to take that risk because it’s such an amazing technology if it works..."
If it would turn out that it does not work, in spite of everything, I would think it is about self-deception. I believe it works..."
“This is a difficult question as it’s Rossi’s responsibility that the product works. We only act as agents..."
So these guys are intrigued enough to put themselves forward as facilitators, but with stated caveats putting all responsibility onto Rossi and potential buyers.
Sure, why not? There's been enough time and water passing under the various bridges since Fleischmann–Pons, that as long as they hold their mouths right, there is only small risk to their own reputations --- with the possibility they may be getting in on the ground floor of a significant discovery.
Just don't try to pawn off onto freepers here this latest action concerning a couple of Swiss physicists, their "interests", and actions to move quickly on building a marketing plan they *might* be able to make some easy money with, as being a ringing endorsement.
Because it's not.
enough to put themselves forward as facilitators
***That’s all anyone else has been saying all along. So add 2 more to the conspiracy.
Just another example of ‘when you dont believe in anything, then you’ll fall for anything’. I’ll bet a grounded belief in God, or even a lack of science education, is missing in this equation.
Splat!
In your (fevered, juvenile) dreams.
Meanwhile, or otherwise, the device just might work.
Now quit pooping (and TROLLING) in your own opening comments. It's infuriating...
But that's the plan, isn't it? It's working like a charm. You win again(!)
Your writing is schizophrenic.
I find it interesting that the only company that has any existence prior to "signing up" with Rossi is the German company that is currently "selling" perpetual motion machines.
If Rossi's gadget actually worked, his partners would be companies like G.E. or Westinghouse (or maybe Google).
How interesting, that after all this time, the discussion is STILL focussed on trying to convince people that Rossi’s device is legitimate.
The PCR technique has revolutionized the biological sciences. Yet, I don’t remember that Kary Mullis spent inordinate amounts of time giving unconvincing demonstrations of his technique, attempting to convince people that PCR is real, and to buy his PCR machines.
Could the big difference here be that Kary Mullis actually had strong scientific evidence, repeatable by anyone with access to lab supplies and equipment—while Rossi has yet to offer ANY scientific evidence, and carefully protects any details that might allow independent verification of his process?
Hmm.
P.S. For the benefit of non-biologists, Kary Mullis won the Nobel Prize for inventing PCR, which is used by life scientists and in clinical laboratories worldwide.
http://patents.justia.com/1997/05674632.html
Of interest. No time to post this myself. Ping to CF list
Subject: Brian Ahearn
Powder..patch..ball FIRE!
Excellent link! Thanks!
But you like setting up these types of conversations, don't you?
The device may prove to work --- or it may not. As even mentioned by these Swiss whom you declare here to be "2 more(!)"
Their own qualifying statements (the caveats I mentioned and allude to above) preclude being able to add them to your smug and smirking thesis.
Saying as much is no proof or evidence of schizophrenia.
My own mental state concerning all of this, is besides the point, regardless.
If you, yourself were actually trying to promote rational discussion, leaving your own personal feelings, emotion, and the over-weening need to get back at the skeptics aside, you wouldn't come across as having the maturity level reminiscent of teenage skate punk.
What I'm trying to say is DROP the smug conspiracy thesis. We've seen it over-and-over. Repeating it ad nauseum doesn't plug the holes which have been in it, and have been pointed out to exist in it, from it's inception.
In other words, grow up.
Color me impressed. Hydrofusion is involved now, seriously, hydrofusion? How many people do they employ in England alone let alone globally?
I looked and I found that they employ an incredible amount of people.
From my admittedly hasty research, I've found out how many people they employ:
Here's their website:
Hydrofusion
Here's where they say they are opening a new branch:
New Office!
If they really are building a site in Sweden, or as they say, Opening a New Branch then they think they've got something. Does Sweden allow lay people to access permits, architectural drawings as well as the engineering/architecture drawings from the firm they are going to use? Does Hydrofusion have other branches and where are they located?
They are also using a quote from Tesla. Is it possible to have an appeal to authority beyond the grave..?
It also appears that they thought long and hard about the content to put on their website and besides the pages that canonize Rossi, there's pretty much nothing there. I like this minimalist approach, it's very clean. Dr. Judy Wood could learn a thing or two,
Observe what a ten year old with a copy of Front Page can do:
I apologize for that, your eyes will return to normal in a few minutes.
Please note: Dr. Judy Woods has nothing, no relation to Rossi that I'm aware of. I use her site to show what, in my opinion, is one of the busiest (not traffic, content) and worse looking site around. The Hydrofusion site is a Rembrandt compared to her site.
It also appears, in typical Rossi fashion, he piggybacks on the name of a successful company or technology. Now it won't solve the unemployment strategy but it's a start.
Kevmo, you never responded to this post, granted it was only pinged to WW:
What, no comment, no aves references?
We are getting near the point where we learn whether:
1) Rossi has literally changed the world forever and for good. I'd put that on my C.V. if I were him
2) Rossi has had good intentions but was blinded by test bias where he saw what he was looking for.
3) Rossi deliberately set out to scam people.
While I believe #3 is the answer, to carry out a scam of this magnitude would be as amazing as a working Ecat.
I'm sure when all this settles out, there will be a book about it.
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