Skip to comments.Will Gold Be Confiscated?
Posted on 11/22/2011 11:18:19 PM PST by Razzz42
One of the top questions I have been getting is will gold be confiscated? While that is not likely under normal conditions, we seem to be headed for abnormal conditions. This move to confiscate repatriateALL money held in Switzerland back to Greece being orchestrated by the Europeans to ensure they get their pound of flesh out of Greece, such a wholesale attempt to confiscate ALL wealth is bordering on Communism. The way gold was confiscated under FDR was whatever gold deposits the banks had they too were seized and replaced with dollars. They did not go house to house. The key here seems to be not leaving your gold in banks, and it may come down to even cash based upon this latest European trick and MF Global.
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What good is gold or cash as a hedge if it was at MF Global? What about any bank for that matter? Trading futures has been based upon the confidence that the exchange stood between all parties. The disgraceful confiscation of all assets at MF Global and the refusal to honor the client segregation of funds from those of the brokerage house is beyond belief. In the case of Princeton Economics, they could cover it up giving the bank directors absolute immunity provided they returned the money. But make no mistake about it, HSBC still tried not to pay after pocketing $1 billion from Safra. They finally agreed to plead guilty ONLY if no bankers went to jail. The problem with MF Global, nobody has stepped up to buy the firm so they could not hide the taking of clients money as they did in the case of Princeton Economics.
Allowing the NY bankers to sweep your accounts and sell that in REPO overnight is outrageous. I expressly bought Fannie Maes to prevent that because they were not good collateral for the exchange or REPO. It turns out the bastards were still selling them off, not putting entries in the accounts, and using segregated money for their own benefit behind my back. The issue is this has become standard operational procedure in New York and NOBODY will clean it up! Numerous people have written how their funds are frozen at MF Global and may be for a very long time. So what good is cash or gold if it is in New York? We need an old world private bank where they do not lend out your money or sell it behind your back in REPO, and you pay a fee for them to be the custodian. But they cant even be a Fed bank because the money is still electronic and can be confiscated with the push of a button.
The MF Global incident, US tracking of all bank wires, the confiscation of Greeks assets in Switzerland is all showing we have very serious problems far beyond what people are arguing about with gold standard nonsense. We are at the threshold of a systemic collapse that no change of what we call money is about to prevent. We may be at the Fall of Rome Stage where people buried their money and didnt trust banks at all. As governments become desperate for money to pay the bankers, it becomes precisely as President Herbert Hoover wrote in his memoirs on page 129:
[W]hen representative government becomes angered, it will burn down the barn to get a rat out of it.
Indeed, we are in serious trouble. This whole thing is just not going very well. Instead of addressing the problems, government will destroy everything we once had just to pay the bills and retain the power to borrow forever and never have to pay off a dime. Yet there is NOBODY running for President who would do a damn thing different!
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1) What is the likelihood of governments confiscating the private ownership of gold - as was previously done in the US - thus forcing citizens to hold debased currencies and forcing down the price of gold?;
Answer: Government will NEVER return to a gold standard. That is simply off the table. Any confiscation of gold will not be to create a monetary system, but to simply grab wealth to fill the pockets of the bankers.
2) What's the likelihood of the Europeans selling down their gold holdings to reduce their budget deficits?
Answer: Very high. Since there is no intention of returning to a gold standard, which would remove government power amount to a financial revolution, there is no love loss regarding gold. Everything will go to keep the power.
3) Have you noticed the large short positions in precious metals of the major US investment banks - particularly JP Morgan?; and
Answer: Nothing beyond what they have been doing.
4) You previously mentioned that investors will derive greater confidence in the private sector than the public sector and this would provide impetus for the equity markets. With cash- strapped governments looking for extra revenue sources, why would they not introduce higher taxes and levies on corporates thus possibly making investing in equities unattractive? On the other hand and in accord with your 'private' over 'public' forecast, BHP has just raised debt 10 year debt funding in the US at 3.66% - BELOW the Australian 10 year bond rate. Now THAT vindicates your 'private' over 'public' stance although at this stage its confined to the debt markets.
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Answer: Government will of course raise taxes or ENFORCE taxation as the US is now secretly tracing every wire looking for any account they can confiscate. However, from a corporate perspective, we are not necessarily talking about earnings here. What this shift is all about is where to hide your wealth so it does not vanish. The key with corporations is their tangible asset value. There are some that have little, just ideas. But when faced with holding government bonds, stocks will on the rebound become ONE of the means to secure wealth. Some people will buy gold but NOT everyone does the same thing. People will invest in what they feel the most comfortable in holding.
5) Is China going to implode in 2012 or, as you previously forecast, in about 2016?
We are working very hard to get the profile up on China. There are clearly signs of stress already. But real estate is still booming in many areas all the way down into Southeast Asia. The three targets are 2012, 2014, and 2016 with the end of the financial world stuff going into 2020.
Anything can happen when you have extreme economic conditions.
It wouldn’t surprise me if all forms of wealth we’re confiscated.
What Good Can a Handgun Do Against An Army?
only if the mission is to start a civil war.
Mexico recently bought a huge amount of gold. Confiscate that. LoL!
The purchase is one of the largest by a central bank in recent history. The gold, worth $4.6bn at current prices, is equivalent to about 3.5 per cent of annual mined output.
The central bank has not been publicly announced the move, but has reported it both on its own balance sheet, posted online, and to the International Monetary Funds statistics on international reserves.
They do not have to confiscate it to make it worthless or dangerous. They can simply make it illegal to transact any business in gold/silver etc. They can also levy massive taxes to offset any appreciation and make money on everyone else’s risk/investments.
How awesome is gold is at 10,000 if it sends you and your family to jail unless you give 8,000.00 or more to the government?
When FDR planned to print boatloads of money, he went to the proverbial place "where the money is". That's where a modern bank robber would go. Why steal worthless money? So being the socialist liberal he was, he had plans to save us from our ignorant selves by building bridges and dams with our own money. To keep from following Germany down the rabbit hole, he at least said, Lets steal everybody's gold to back our money and we can obtain utopia and save the dollar. Germany just printed money and elected a maniac to save them.
Some seem to think FDR saved us from hell, but from all I ever saw, the unemployment rate was never under 19% for 11 years. Good thing we had a war to get everybody back to work and kill the other schmucks that were living with the hobo's.
Today, we are in the same position. Obama wants his utopia and us hayseeds don't seem to understand that our money belongs to the greater good. We have doubled the debt in 3 years so things are getting dicey and everybody is becoming aware of the absurdity, even S&P and Moody's. So, where's the money? Gold, of course, along with silver, and I'm willing to bet land, because of coming food shortages. If you hold your mouth just right, you can imagine Obama in the oval office saying we must contribute our teeth and wedding rings to the good of the nation so we can pay unemployment to the OWS crew smoking dope and crapping on the man.
To print this much money, I'm afraid of what's coming down the road. The minute we start to have any good news, food, gas, and everything not reproducible will head to the sky. People say he wouldn't dare. How did we end up with 2 car companies? Banks, insurance companies? Hugo Chavez would be jealous. IMO, bullets and beans will be the new money anyway. If someone pays for bread with a gold coin, they will probably be beheaded before they get their first sandwitch. A couple of hundred tons of gold would make the money at least worth a few pennies.
You gave a best case scenario. FDR was forced to default because of our gold standard, countries were redeeming our currency for gold thus depleting or reserves when the gold confiscation took place and with that ensued deflation for years on end as capital avoided the US since the rule of law was compromised.
It is not O’bummer per se but the entire system that is corrupt, The system allows the likes of O’bummer clones to thrive.
Yeah, like you wouldn’t trade me a loaf of bread for a $20 Liberty. Sure, and when you do I’m certain that you will run right down and confess your crime and throw yourself at someone’s mercy.
Keep it real chuckles, if we get down to the short and curlys that you describe, there won’t be a Safeway store open anywhere to buy your bread anyway. Who is going to bake it? Who will bring it to market, and in what?
I think I’ll keep my gold and silver. You do what you think best. We have been getting ready for this for quite a while at our house. Bring it.
The real safety will be in hoarding pasta, rice, dry beans, and MREs, and of course a good stockpile of guns and ammo.
...”The real safety will be in hoarding pasta, rice, dry beans, and MREs, and of course a good stockpile of guns and ammo”...
We all want to think that some kind of REAL safety will exist..However, the situation the crooked politicians have set up for us with the big government we now have is going to doom all of us, including most of them..They are too stupid or drunk on power to look at history to see what they are doing. People will be fleeing the violence of the war which is coming and won’t be able to take their beans and rice with them..Listen to Van Jones, the ex-Obama Czar who has proclaimed “bottom up, top down, inside out” for America..It is happening and America will buy the fake class warfare propaganda being set up to blame the rich instead of the political criminality which is truly to blame for our decline. And, also, most importantly, a complicit media comglomerate carries the most credit for our demise through it’s cover for the dirty politics. For really the first time in my life, I see a Holiday Season coming up which is more filled with fear and dread, than joy and peace, for most people..The politicians have done this to us, folks. We worked, reared our families and trusted that our leaders of both parties wanted freedom..Not so, they wanted personal power and aggrandizement above all else, country be damned and they set up double standards to achieve it. This is why the Democrats on the Super Committee were determined that it would fail..It did not comply with the rules of dictatorship. My opinion.
I understand they outlawed trade in marijuana too. We all know how well that law stopped that trade. Outlawing precious metals or taxing it at 80% is just about the last step before we get a fully underground economy. There will always be trade with precious metals
Pasta: 120 pounds, freeze dried and sealed - check
Rice: 200 pounds, freeze dried and sealed - check
Beans: 120 pounds Pintoes, 80 pounds Black Beans, 120 pounds Small Red, 120 Small White, 15 pounds Limas and Split Peas - check
MRE: 12 cases/ 12 per case - check
Arms and ammunition: Lots, enough to arm at least 12 people and bullets to keep them running for years. Extensive stockpiles of 7.62 and 5.56, 1000 rounds of 12ga buckshot among others. Other ordinance I would rather not talk about.
Water: Secure water source plus 6 blue barrels inside the house, treated and changed once per year.
First Aid: Extensive supplies of everything from bandages to surgical equipment and a former Navy Corpsman in house. Meds too, lots of them.
Did I mention that we have a small farm way out in the country, very secluded.
We are praying for the very, very best. We are prepared for the worst, I hope.
To hold a piece of paper in your hand with the promise that you "own" some of the metal that is placed somewhere else is a fool's game.
If all the gold ever mined was weighed and valued, it would be about $9 Trillion Dollars (US).
There are A LOT more people in the world who flash little pieces of paper that they say they own 100 times that.
All it takes for your piece of paper to become null and void is a shrug of the shoulders.
Ask Corzine's "investors" where their money went, and if they are satisfied with the action taken once it was stolen.
I worry more about the government siezing 401K plans and replacing them with a government run fixed pension as a way to raise quick cash.
No mention of 401(k)s or pensions?
There is far more wealth there than all private and public gold.
They will push a button and replace equities and corporate debt, which funds all investment and operations in the economy, with government bonds which, while backed by the “full faith and credit” of the government, represent only money already spent and long gone, productive of nothing, the remnant of all government ponzi schemes to date until they are inevitably revalued down and down.
The question is whether people will be sufficiently soothed by the substitution or resort to the decisive violence such a move would deserve?
Shelter in place - always work to improve your position - cultivate (trust-worthy, like-minded) allies.
Water-filtration - ammo - food-stocks - seed stocks and garden space.
That, you do not have to worry about. It will happen.If the mid term election had turned out like the Democrats wanted it would already have been accomplished. The Democrats plan on confinskating the moner in individual’s 401Ks and replacing it with social security “credits”. But they may not have to do that. The EPA and Congress is going to regulte every Company except the Government owned and approved [GM, Kennedy’s solar Company, George Soros owned Companies]out of business. Hence, no private enterprise, no 40Ks. no 401Ks, no private pensions. There will ,however, be a hell of lot of starvation. But that is what the majority of those that voted in 2008 voted for. And what the “occupiers” occupy for. Let them enjoy it.
The problem I’m struggling with this time around is that most wealth is tied up in virtual currency now. There is no physical manifestation of most money, it’s all bytes, manifest as ledgers declaring who owes who what.
Physical possession or BUST
401K is not wealth, only the first out will get any monies out of their 401K accounts. As fund managers sell stocks to raise money as people cash out, stocks fall and fund values decrease, then the avalanche of calls for money out and stocks fall more til 401 is valueless.
Run to be the first out. Take the penalty and buy gold or silver or bullets or food. I like chocolates.
The central bank of Mexico bought nearly 100 tonnes of gold in February and March, the latest emerging market country to turn to bullion as a means of diversifying away from the faltering dollar.
I hope the test each and every bar of bullion they receive. From my reading I believe that a significant portion of gold bullion in the world is actually adulterated with tungsten.
I worry more about the government seizing 401K plans and replacing them with a government run fixed pension as a way to raise quick cash.
Oh yeah! I believe that is the plan, especially when you consider that 401(k) money now goes into Stocks and Bonds for the most part. The Congresscriminals have to be looking at that bi-weekly influx of cash into the Stock market and salivating over having it go into Government Bonds instead. Why with that much extra money they can buy some more votes!
I believe it will as it was under FDR in the 1930s. Turn in your gold at a low rate of go to federal prison for 15 years. All these Buy Gold guys will only provide more money for the Socialist States of America. Even gold jewelry will be forbidden. Wedding rings replaced with steel bands as was done in Mussolini’s Italy. All it takes in one good crisis and the whole apple cart could topple. I believe this WILL happen in Obama’s second term—that’s why we must get him and his Progressive/Communist crew out of Government.
I agree. Like I said in my previous post, if the gubmint wants the gold, they have to make it hard to trade. All the talk of buying bread with gold, for me, is just talk. If the gubmint has taken the gold, the underground gold trade will last about a week. When your neighbor turns you in for a bag of beans, your house will be ransacked and burned( they really don't want prisoners to feed) You can fill in the blanks for whatever else they might do.
The government is basically "force", so if they want the gold, they will not pull punches to get it. All the people with coins and bars of gold won't be able to show it to anyone. What is the value of that? The minute you "wink wink, nudge nudge" someone for a bag of grocery's, the bounty on your head will overcome any friendships you may have thought you had. So if you have your 401K in gold, a $500k balance won't really buy much.
Gold will still be worth money up until the "end", but the end will be when it's illegal for peasants to own gold. It is optimistic to think the police and military won't be able to get it from you. I'm sure the Jews in Berlin thought the authorities would protect them all the way to the train.
The real variable in all this is the police and military. How many believe in the Constitution they swore to uphold? How many are patriots? How many would look at their families and say, "I don't want to, but Obama promises my kids would get fed". Patriotism is big talk until the rope gets around your neck. The "push back" would have to be swift and massive to change the momentum that had already started. That is the reason the "militia's" have the right idea. They already have "their friends" and their stock piles of goods. When you are scurrying around trying to figure out what to do, they will have already started their own community where "authorities" aren't welcome. If you look at people in uniform, there is only a couple million that could be mobilized quickly to run a tank over your home if they could find that many that would follow that order. 50-100 men could protect a town from whatever the government could muster quickly. Early compliance is what the government would need to get a foothold. If the trouble was stout and brutal in the beginning, the government push would fizzle, IMO.
All this is just speculation over something that doesn't have to happen. If we can make meaningful changes quickly, this stuff won't happen. Watching Europe right now is paramount. They are dragging their feet and it could cost them. They cannot give up their government payments, and they want to kick the can down the road one more time. The road ends just a few weeks ahead. If the OWS mob can't see what is playing out before their eyes, then we will follow soon. Just ask a family member of either party what they think about taking a 10% cut in their benefits and watch the reaction. They always see cuts that can be made elsewhere.
Our whole culture rests on trust right now. What happens when the trust is breached? If you can't trust your government, they are the enemy as sure as the Taliban is the enemy.
My father always taught me, "If you depend on someone else, you are depending on the wrong person". They will all let you down.
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