Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

National Right To Carry Reciprocity And The Senate
onlygunsandmoney ^ | 23 November, 2011 | John Richardson

Posted on 11/24/2011 7:24:07 AM PST by marktwain

Now that HR 822 has passed the House of Representatives in overwhelming fashion, it moves to the Senate. Unless I am greatly mistaken, there is significant pressure on senators from both sides of the debate. The Brady Campaign is ramping up the pressure with an auto-mailer campaign asking senators to vote no. Nonetheless, even they admit they don't have the votes to stop it.

I sent an email today to Sen. Kay Hagan (D-NC) about the bill. While I have no worries that Sen. Richard Burr will be a solid backer of the bill, Hagan can be wishy-washy despite her claims of being a Second Amendment supporter. What surprised me was that I got an email back from her office almost immediately discussing her stance - if you could call it that - on the bill. If she hadn't been getting lots of mail on the issue, she wouldn't have been so prepared to issue something other than a generic thank you for your letter response.

Dear Friend,

Thank you for contacting me regarding National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R. 822). I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this important issue.

This bill was introduced in the House of Representatives on February 18, 2011, and was referred to the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.

If enacted, the bill would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed firearm permit to carry their firearm in any other state that also issues concealed firearm permits. Currently, 48 states, including North Carolina, have laws permitting residents to carry concealed firearms.

While H.R. 822 has yet to reach the Senate, I pledge to keep your thoughts on this issue in mind. My family, like the great state of North Carolina, has a long tradition of hunting and gun ownership, and I take great pride in that heritage. I have opposed requiring gun owners to obtain federal licenses or creating a federal system to track gun sales and transfers, as I believe these proposals would infringe this important constitutional right. I will continue to support the rights guaranteed under the Second Amendment.

Again, thank you for contacting my office. It is truly an honor to represent North Carolina in the United States Senate, and I hope you will not hesitate to contact me in the future should you have any further questions or concerns.

Sincerely,

Kay R. Hagan

If you haven't already done it, it is time to contact both of your state's senators and urge them to vote for the National Right-To-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011. I wouldn't want to think that our voices could be drowned out by an auto-mailer run by the Brady Campaign.


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw; reciprocity; senate
It would be very good to force President Obama to either sign or veto this bill.
1 posted on 11/24/2011 7:24:15 AM PST by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: marktwain
It would be very good to force President Obama to either sign or veto this bill.

It won't pass the Senate but if it does, Obama will veto it in a hot second and not lose a wink of sleep over any political implications.

2 posted on 11/24/2011 7:29:16 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Attacking Wall Street because you're jobless is like burning down Whole Foods because you're hungry.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I am shocked to hear this bill has a greater chance of passing the Senate than a snowball in Hell. I thought it would be dead as a doornail, even though Reid’s one reasonable position is on gun rights (he’s been a reliable vote for them). Didn’t the NRA support Reid over Angle?

However, if this doesn’t have 2/3 support in both houses it will still die by Obama’s veto.


3 posted on 11/24/2011 7:31:19 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Cain = National Sales Tax; Perry = Amnesty for Illegals; Romney = Obamacare forever. Who's left?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
While H.R. 822 has yet to reach the Senate, I pledge to keep your thoughts on this issue in mind [but prolly vote against it]. My family, like the great state of North Carolina, has a long tradition of hunting [WTF?] and gun ownership, and I take great pride in that heritage. I have opposed requiring gun owners to obtain federal licenses or creating a federal system to track gun sales and transfers, as I believe these proposals would infringe this important constitutional right. I will continue to support the rights guaranteed under the Second Amendment.[in my wishy-washy fashion]
4 posted on 11/24/2011 7:40:11 AM PST by umgud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: umgud

Let all the states do the right thing on this and create the reciprocity. No need for the Feds on this.


5 posted on 11/24/2011 7:49:14 AM PST by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
I don't know what to think about this. Obama has a lot of big-money supporters who are rabidly anti-gun, and he might veto the bill just to appease them.

On the other hand, if he has any intelligence at all, he'll realize this bill will do nothing to increase crime, but will likely decrease it in all states except IL (land of no 2nd Amendment rights). So, for the good of the country, he ought to sign it.

But Obama does not operate for the good of the country.

Are we sure there is nothing evil hiding in this bill? I think requiring states that allow carry to recognize each other's carry permits is a win. The ruling class in states like NJ will crap their pants, though, and their citizenry are going to howl that people from other states can carry when they can't (effectively, no permits are issued).

6 posted on 11/24/2011 7:53:22 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau
Let all the states do the right thing on this and create the reciprocity. No need for the Feds on this.

But there is. States like NJ, NY, DE, CA will not recognize the 2nd Amendment right to carry; even though they have laws on the books to issue permits, very few if any permits get issued. Federal reciprocity forces the issue.

7 posted on 11/24/2011 7:55:25 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer

In NY....I know plenty of dudes who “carry”....and legally.


8 posted on 11/24/2011 7:58:10 AM PST by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau
In NY....I know plenty of dudes who “carry”....and legally.

Great. But I can't, as a permit holder in NC. What are the prospects for the governments of NY, ME, CT, RI, MD, or NJ to vote to recognize my permit. NIL, ZIP, ZERO, NADA, I would think. Those statists hate issuing permits to their people; they sure don't want some backwoods hick from NC carrying 3 pistols around in their state.

Again, national reciprocity forces the issue.

9 posted on 11/24/2011 8:12:15 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau
To better understand the present system of state carry permit reciprocity, play with these interactive maps at USACarry.com. By clicking on those New England states, you will see that even they don't recognize each other's permits, and many of them won't issue a non-resident permit. So, if you do business in NY and NJ and live in VA, for example, you LOSE your 2nd Amendment rights at the border of those states.
10 posted on 11/24/2011 8:16:28 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty

Well, in reality Reid and many other Democrats with similar voting records on Second Amendment rights are not as good as their direct votes make it seem.

Reid voted against Roberts and Alito, and for Kagan and Sotomayor. From these votes, and his stated preferences for judicial philosophy, he supports a judges and Sup Court that he knows would gut the Second Amendment of any real meaning.

So he is in large part a fraud on this issue.


11 posted on 11/24/2011 8:18:03 AM PST by Aetius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty

Well, in reality Reid and many other Democrats with similar voting records on Second Amendment rights are not as good as their direct votes make it seem.

Reid voted against Roberts and Alito, and for Kagan and Sotomayor. From these votes, and his stated preferences for judicial philosophy, he supports a judges and Sup Court that he knows would gut the Second Amendment of any real meaning.

So he is in large part a fraud on this issue.


12 posted on 11/24/2011 8:18:03 AM PST by Aetius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Why is America failing, because our leaders no longer obey the Constitution.


13 posted on 11/24/2011 8:19:26 AM PST by Logical me
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Something doesn't pass the smell test here....

Would this bill require registration on a Federal data-base of any CCW guns?

14 posted on 11/24/2011 8:34:52 AM PST by gettinolder (Smashed lips save ships.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Aetius

I agree.

However, this time I’m not looking for a good vote on a judge, I want him to move this piece of legislation to the floor. As Majority Leader he is certainly capable of stopping it, but he has the option of allowing votes, which I hope hell do.


15 posted on 11/24/2011 8:47:57 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Cain = National Sales Tax; Perry = Amnesty for Illegals; Romney = Obamacare forever. Who's left?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau; umgud
Let all the states do the right thing on this and create the reciprocity. No need for the Feds on this.

If federal legislation requires reciprocity, the feds will be setting the standards. Currently Texas and several other states don't recognize Utah CHL's. The feds could force everyone to accept Utah's low standards, or they could enact such onerous requirements that would make it more difficult to carry across state lines.

16 posted on 11/24/2011 9:00:34 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: gettinolder
Would this bill require registration on a Federal data-base of any CCW guns?

No.

And not only that, in the last "mini-bus" appropriation bill, the House re-affirmed that no money is to be spent on creating any federal database of gun owners.

17 posted on 11/24/2011 9:18:54 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: gettinolder
Here's an article on the good news for gun owners in the "mini-bus" appropriation bill, including prohibitions of federal gun databases.
18 posted on 11/24/2011 9:21:29 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative
If federal legislation requires reciprocity, the feds will be setting the standards.

Didn't happen with marriage or drivers licenses. This is not a fed ccw issue law.

19 posted on 11/24/2011 9:25:43 AM PST by umgud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer
Thanks. I read the article in the link you sent, seems pretty black and white to me.

Have a nice Thanksgiving.

gettinolder

20 posted on 11/24/2011 9:29:28 AM PST by gettinolder (Smashed lips save ships.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

I’d like to see the gun rights orgs/pols expand the CCW power to allow direct shipment of firearms, even if they have to do the 4473 thing. If the CCW holder has passed both state and federal background checks, he should have the ability to receive firearms directly. Right now I’d even settle for being able to buy a handgun in another state.

Constitution carry states would be a problem, but then one can usually get a permit from another state - so long as the background check requirement is met.


21 posted on 11/24/2011 9:30:19 AM PST by Oatka (This is the USA, assimilate or evaporate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative
The feds could force everyone to accept Utah's low standards

Huh? Four states (AK, NH, WY, AZ) require NO permit for either open or concealed carry (though all will issue one for reciprocity purposes). From the anti-gun perspective, those would seem a "lower" standard than that of Utah. And one I would actually prefer.

22 posted on 11/24/2011 9:32:10 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Oatka
Constitution carry states would be a problem,

The Constitutional carry states will still issue a permit with background check, for reciprocity purposes. At least I know AZ and AK will.

23 posted on 11/24/2011 9:44:20 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer
The Constitutional carry states will still issue a permit with background check, for reciprocity purposes. At least I know AZ and AK will.

Good point. I got one from AZ "just in case".

24 posted on 11/24/2011 9:52:47 AM PST by Oatka (This is the USA, assimilate or evaporate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer
Huh? Four states (AK, NH, WY, AZ) require NO permit for either open or concealed carry (though all will issue one for reciprocity purposes). From the anti-gun perspective, those would seem a "lower" standard than that of Utah. And one I would actually prefer.

Texas doesn't allow concealed carry without a permit. If you are a resident of those states that allow CHL without a permit, you'll have to get a permit to carry in Texas. Texas also also doesn't recognize Utah's CHL's due to their lax criteria. Representative Todd Hunter will sponsor legislation in 2013 to allow open carry by CHL holders.

25 posted on 11/24/2011 9:57:50 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: umgud
Didn't happen with marriage or drivers licenses. This is not a fed ccw issue law

Actually it did happen with marriage. Ever heard of the Defense of Marriage Act of 1996? Under that legislation the federal government does not recognize "same sex marriage" and the states are permitted to not recognize "same sex marriages" that occur in other states. If it weren't for the Defense of Marriage Act, the courts might have compelled by the courts to recognize "same sex marriages" from other states.

26 posted on 11/24/2011 10:38:35 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative

I’ll give you that, but homo sexual marriages, are clearly outside the norm and are not generally protected by the constitution. There are other areas too, that aren’t recognized accross borders. Contractors licenses, etc.


27 posted on 11/24/2011 11:00:47 AM PST by umgud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer

I’m in AZ and I constitutional carry. I’d have to get a CCW for this law to affect me.


28 posted on 11/24/2011 11:09:23 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Cain = National Sales Tax; Perry = Amnesty for Illegals; Romney = Obamacare forever. Who's left?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: gettinolder
Something doesn't pass the smell test here.... Would this bill require registration on a Federal data-base of any CCW guns?

No. "Gun Control" is becoming the third rail of american politics. We are winning.

29 posted on 11/24/2011 5:24:15 PM PST by marktwain (In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative

Twice now you have posted that Texas doesn’t recognize Utah carry permits.

They most certainly do.

See here: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/reciprocity.htm

They even recognize South Dakota’s which has no requirements at all, except pay your $10 and pass the background check. (I have one.)


30 posted on 11/24/2011 6:26:02 PM PST by chaosagent (Remember, no matter how you slice it, forbidden fruit still tastes the sweetest!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson