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Men Don't Lust After Your Wives--Mature Content
youtube ^ | Citadel catholic

Posted on 12/11/2011 2:11:26 PM PST by mainestategop

So could some catholics explain this to me?

(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: catholicism
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1 posted on 12/11/2011 2:11:36 PM PST by mainestategop
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To: mainestategop

because lust is a sin?


2 posted on 12/11/2011 2:18:45 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: mainestategop

I have an idea but the letters continually flying in from all angles to make phrases underneath are very irritating and distracting.


3 posted on 12/11/2011 2:19:30 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: GeronL

One needs to define the difference between sexual desire and lust then. And I coulnd’t watch the whole thing because of those never-ending stupid whirling letters.


4 posted on 12/11/2011 2:20:45 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: mainestategop

Well, did you watch it?

Did it not make sense to you?

Do you not believe that a husband can sexually degrade his wife, or treat her as a mere object of pleasure? Contraception, abortion, sexual abuse and degrading sexual behavior all exist WITHIN marriages, not just outside of them.


5 posted on 12/11/2011 2:21:39 PM PST by dangus
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To: Secret Agent Man

One should marry out of love not lust.

That is probably the point. Badly made point.


6 posted on 12/11/2011 2:22:28 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: mainestategop

Too early in the morning to figure this out. Bump for later.


7 posted on 12/11/2011 2:27:36 PM PST by Ronin (If we were serious about using the death penalty as a deterrent, we would bring back public hangings)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Yes, sexual desire is good; lust is illicit, inordinate, selfish or uncontrolled sexual desire, however.


8 posted on 12/11/2011 2:32:34 PM PST by dangus
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To: Secret Agent Man

You are absolutely right IMHO. In principle sexual desire is good. In fallen humans it is disordered, which means we experience it inappropriately and often with a kind of selfishness which interferes with charity.

“Lust” is not a passion. Passions are not intrinsically sinful. Lust is a sin, which means it involves the will and is a defect in charity.


9 posted on 12/11/2011 2:33:23 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: mainestategop

Lust happens before you get married.


10 posted on 12/11/2011 2:40:31 PM PST by goseminoles
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To: GeronL

because lust is a sin?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```

it is one of the seven deadly sins, agreed. However, does the bible mention these sins anywhere? or are they a fabrication of the vatican?

regardless. lets say for the sake of argument the 7 deadly sins are not only in the bible, but in the new testament.

What should we say about the tremendous numbers of women who seem to make it their primary purpose in life to create lust in the hearts of men?


11 posted on 12/11/2011 2:42:53 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: mamelukesabre

I am sure it would be a sin for both men and women


12 posted on 12/11/2011 2:46:39 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: mamelukesabre
it is one of the seven deadly sins, agreed. However, does the bible mention these sins anywhere? or are they a fabrication of the vatican?

They were compiled by Pope Gregory I around the year 600, and you're correct - there is no such term in the Bible. It is purely a Catholic term.

13 posted on 12/11/2011 2:46:58 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: mamelukesabre
So, do women lust for men?

I don't think so. They are all looking for security. Not sure though.

14 posted on 12/11/2011 2:49:14 PM PST by AGreatPer (Obama has NEVER given a speech where he did not lie!!!)
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To: SkyPilot

Are you inferring that sin is not in the Bible, or lust?


15 posted on 12/11/2011 2:52:25 PM PST by sayuncledave (et Verbum caro factum est (And the Word was made flesh))
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To: sayuncledave
Are you inferring that sin is not in the Bible, or lust?

Did I say that?

No.

I said the term "7 Deadly Sins" is not in the Bible.

16 posted on 12/11/2011 2:55:04 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: GeronL

How are you sure? If the act of soliciting lust from men is also a sin, then to be consistent you will need to acknowledge the muslim traditions of women’s clothing.


17 posted on 12/11/2011 2:56:31 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: AGreatPer

you need to re read what you responded to.


18 posted on 12/11/2011 2:57:40 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: mainestategop

Even sex within marriage is imperfect. Whe Augustine was tortured by his need of women in the Garden of Milan, he was referring to his own wife.


19 posted on 12/11/2011 2:59:14 PM PST by dinoparty
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To: SkyPilot

Are you sure Pope Gregory compiled the list? I was under the impression that Augustine had so classified sin a couple of centuries earlier.

As I understand it, the phrase “Capital Sin” is more apt than “deadly sin.” The idea is that all other sins fit into these seven categories. It’s part of a discussion about how sin is a disorder of love. So, for example, envy woud be a failure to love your neighbor enough to be happy for him when he has something you’d like to have.


20 posted on 12/11/2011 3:02:25 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: mamelukesabre

thank you, your right


21 posted on 12/11/2011 3:03:28 PM PST by AGreatPer (Obama has NEVER given a speech where he did not lie!!!)
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To: mainestategop
Men Don't Lust After Your Wives--Mature Content

plenty of other people probably are.

22 posted on 12/11/2011 3:03:40 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (omg - obama must go!)
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To: SkyPilot
I said the term "7 Deadly Sins" is not in the Bible.

Proverbs 6:16-19

New International Version (NIV)

 16 There are six things the LORD hates,
   seven that are detestable to him:
    17 haughty eyes,
      a lying tongue,
      hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
      feet that are quick to rush into evil,
    19 a false witness who pours out lies
      and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.


23 posted on 12/11/2011 3:05:23 PM PST by LowOiL ("Abomination" sure sounds like "ObamaNation" to me.)
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To: dangus

You ain’t just whisling Dixie there, dangus.


24 posted on 12/11/2011 3:07:17 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: mainestategop

1 Corinthians 7:2-5 Amplified Bible
2 But because of the temptation to impurity and to avoid immorality, let each [man] have his own wife and let each [woman] have her own husband.
3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights (goodwill, kindness, and what is due her as his wife), and likewise the wife to her husband.
4 For the wife does not have [exclusive] authority and control over her own body, but the husband [has his rights]; likewise also the husband does not have [exclusive] authority and control over his body, but the wife [has her rights].
5 Do not refuse and deprive and defraud each other [of your due marital rights], except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, so that you may devote yourselves unhindered to prayer. But afterwards resume marital relations, lest Satan tempt you [to sin] through your lack of restraint of sexual desire.

1 Corinthians 7:9 Amplified Bible
9 But if they have not self-control (restraint of their passions), they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame [with passion and tortured continually with ungratified desire].


25 posted on 12/11/2011 3:10:23 PM PST by The Truth Will Make You Free
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To: Mad Dawg

True envy is a concept so alien to me it is hard to comprehend. I cannot understand envy of a person for things. I assume most americans are the same as me...well, not counting communists, socialists, and democrats.


26 posted on 12/11/2011 3:14:55 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: SkyPilot

The 7 or 8 list goes back long before Gregory, to Evagrius of Pontus in the 300s.

But lists of sins are all over the Bible. Paul has a bunch of them.

The 7 capital sins (not deadly—they may or may not be deadly, depending on severity, intent, etc.; they are “capital” because they stand at the head of a lot of other sins—it’s an organizational chart; caput = head; they are headings for the lists of sins) are simply a way of thinking about how the various sins relate to each other, as a way of better resisting temptation.

Paul tells us to resist temptation so that it will flee from us. He gives us lists of sins to resist.

That’s exactly what the 7 capital sins are.

Your prejudice, prejudgment, is showing. You have to complain about Catholic this and Catholic that when in fact this is a no-brainer, straight from the Apostle Paul. And Jesus.


27 posted on 12/11/2011 3:16:46 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: SkyPilot

The 7 or 8 list goes back long before Gregory, to Evagrius of Pontus in the 300s.

But lists of sins are all over the Bible. Paul has a bunch of them.

The 7 capital sins (not deadly—they may or may not be deadly, depending on severity, intent, etc.; they are “capital” because they stand at the head of a lot of other sins—it’s an organizational chart; caput = head; they are headings for the lists of sins) are simply a way of thinking about how the various sins relate to each other, as a way of better resisting temptation.

Paul tells us to resist temptation so that it will flee from us. He gives us lists of sins to resist.

That’s exactly what the 7 capital sins are.

Your prejudice, prejudgment, is showing. You have to complain about Catholic this and Catholic that when in fact this is a no-brainer, straight from the Apostle Paul. And Jesus.


28 posted on 12/11/2011 3:16:59 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: SkyPilot

The love of money is the root of all evil. The caput of all evil is the love of money. The capital sin is love of money.

Just one example of how the Bible analyzes sin. The 7 capital sins are a way of analyzing sin. The Bible analyzes sin.

You’ll find lists of capital sins all over, in Proverbs, in the Penteteuch, in James, in Paul, in John. Lust of the eyes, . . . pride of life . . . Sounds like a list of capital sins.

Read your Bible again.


29 posted on 12/11/2011 3:20:03 PM PST by Houghton M.
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To: SkyPilot

Upon further review I think you are right. Cassian had 8 because he had sloth and kind of sadness. Cassian was 4th-5th century.


30 posted on 12/11/2011 3:21:32 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: mamelukesabre

I think some of the contempt for trust-fund babies involves envy.


31 posted on 12/11/2011 3:23:50 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: SkyPilot

Actually, the “seven deadly sins” are a reduced version of the Eight Grievous Vices catalogued by St. John Cassian in a brief work of the same title in the late fourth or early fifth century. The one omitted by St. Gregory the Dialogist was self-esteem. They also have parallels in the Ladder of Divine Ascent by St. John Climacus, a monk of St. Catherine’s Monastery in Sinai, a contemporary of St. Gregory, who is honored by the Orthodox with commemoration on one of the Sundays of Great Lent.

All of them (all eight, and the finer and more extensive list of vices St. John Climacus catalogs) can be seen to be sinful on the basis of Holy Scripture, but the cataloging of them and the understanding of the interrelations among different temptations as an aid to struggling against them with the help of God’s grace is part of the empirical experience of the Church, particularly of monastics.

It’s rather sad Pope Gregory omitted self-esteem, as the vice of self-esteem is now taught as if it were a virtue in our K-12 schools, and while our culture might objectively “celebrate” the other grievous vices, leaving aside fools who do so only for shock value and Randians who seem to think avarice is a virtue, no one has the temerity to actually teach that any of the seven deadly sins are virtuous.


32 posted on 12/11/2011 3:24:29 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: The_Reader_David

I think I disagree about self-esteem. The way it’s taught or inculcated is dangerous nonsense. I would say there are self-esteem disorders in either extreme. But to esteem oneself as a redeemed sinner, precious in God’s sight is helpful to mental health.


33 posted on 12/11/2011 3:31:44 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: mamelukesabre

Would you have men wearing burqua’s too? lol


34 posted on 12/11/2011 3:32:02 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: mainestategop

It’s based on The Theology of Body by Pope John Paul II. It is possible to read the entire work on EWTN’s website.
>It’s the Pope’s job to explain the teachings of Jesus Christ & apply them to the modern world. (I’m a lay-Catholic that gets to Church early to get one of the good seats in the back of the Church. My opinion is just an opinion> not a real teaching.)
>This is my language & not Pope John Paul II: God doesn’t want a man to treat his wife as a total ‘sex object’ whose purpose is to satisfy his instinct for sex. (The sin is in the Heart & in the act.) Why mention adultery? It seems reasonable that God desires a husband to have as much Christian respect for his wife as he is commanded to have for all other women.
>Lust defined: An inordinate desire for or enjoyment of sexual pleasure. The desires or acts are inordinate when they do not conform to the divinely ordained purpose of sexual pleasure, which is to foster the mutual love of husband and wife and, according to the disposition of providence, to procreate and educate their children. (From> Modern Catholic Dictionary)


35 posted on 12/11/2011 3:32:21 PM PST by gghd
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To: Mad Dawg

But esteem based on grace is not self-esteem. The twaddle they teach in schools, the I’m worthy because (fill in the blank with anything) is precisely the problem St. John Cassian found leading monks astray. He writes about what a subtle vice it is, how it finds an opening in the practice of any virtue (see how well I fast. . . see how humble I am. . . ). It is different from pride, in which one puts oneself in God’s place, a very human vice, rather than Luciferian, but grievous nonethless.


36 posted on 12/11/2011 3:38:30 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: GeronL

I think we both know your comment is nonsense and irrelevant.


37 posted on 12/11/2011 3:41:39 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: GeronL

The whole reason I dress modestly is to prevent causing sinful desires in women. Really. (Nods.)


38 posted on 12/11/2011 3:45:07 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: mainestategop

If that lust for your wife results in many children does that mean lust is a good thing because she’s so, so, so....you know...?


39 posted on 12/11/2011 3:55:11 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: mainestategop
Sorry, this RC no can do stop lusting for my RC wife.


40 posted on 12/11/2011 3:57:16 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Mad Dawg

That is mighty angelic of you. lol


41 posted on 12/11/2011 3:59:46 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: SkyPilot

Actually, no, you didn’t.

You said, “They were compiled by Pope Gregory I around the year 600, and you’re correct - there is no such term in the Bible. It is purely a Catholic term.”

In all seriousness, and without malice, I realize I was likely being too literal, but that is my tendency, to be literal. Your statement, in direct response to the phrase you quoted, implies that, in the most literal sense, either “sin” or “lust” is not in the Bible. But, again, that’s literalistic thinking for you. Perhaps you meant as you’ve now stated. Fine by me. I was merely pointing out, in what was intended to be a somewhat genteel fashion, the relative lack of clarity.


42 posted on 12/11/2011 4:06:45 PM PST by sayuncledave (et Verbum caro factum est (And the Word was made flesh))
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To: Mad Dawg; Houghton M.
As I understand it, the phrase “Capital Sin” is more apt than “deadly sin.” The idea is that all other sins fit into these seven categories.

it’s an organizational chart; caput = head; they are headings for the lists of sins)

The way we learned it (OK, in grammar school) is that the other sins flow from them; or, as Baltimore II puts it, "they are the chief reasons why men commit sin." Sounds more like the roots of sin rather than the caput, I know. Maybe to keep the proper image, we might say "The fish rots from the head!" ;-)

43 posted on 12/11/2011 4:08:00 PM PST by maryz
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To: The_Reader_David
The one omitted by St. Gregory the Dialogist was self-esteem.

I find it hard to believe that the modern notion of "self-esteem" even existed in Cassian's time, and surely he didn't write in present-day English! I don't recall encountering the phrase in anything written before the 60s, though it might have been a "term of art" in therapeutic circles before that. What is the Greek(?) word being translated as "self-esteem"?

He writes about what a subtle vice it is, how it finds an opening in the practice of any virtue (see how well I fast. . . see how humble I am. . . ).

We learned of this by the term "spiritual pride" (incidentally, there's a passage about it, I think under that name, in Eliot's Murder in the Cathedral.

44 posted on 12/11/2011 4:26:05 PM PST by maryz
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To: mamelukesabre

You wrote:

“it is one of the seven deadly sins, agreed. However, does the bible mention these sins anywhere? or are they a fabrication of the vatican?”

What?

Have you never read Matthew 5:28?


45 posted on 12/11/2011 4:31:03 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: mainestategop

I’d say the odds that the host of this video is not either secretly gay or a regular visitor of brothels is 50/50.


46 posted on 12/11/2011 4:33:20 PM PST by Minn (Here is a realistic picture of the prophet: ----> ([: {()
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To: Mad Dawg
self-esteem. The way it’s taught or inculcated is dangerous nonsense

Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, I saw a bit -- just a filler -- in a newspaper to the effect that, according to "mental health experts" [sic], those with an inflated view of themselves are more mentally healthy than those with a more realistic view. I was utterly bemused and fascinated by the notion of a "health" that depended completely on vanity and falsehood! No doubt why I still remember it.

47 posted on 12/11/2011 4:35:32 PM PST by maryz
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To: Travis McGee

Sexual desire for your wife is different from lust.

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2362 “The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude.”145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.146

Best brief book on Theology of the Body: http://www.amazon.com/Men-Women-Are-Eden-Theology/dp/0867167009


48 posted on 12/11/2011 4:37:45 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: mainestategop

I’m Catholic, been lusting after my wife for 30 years, don’t intend to stop now.


49 posted on 12/11/2011 4:38:22 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Good for you, Bear.


50 posted on 12/11/2011 4:44:15 PM PST by verity (The Obama Administration is a Criminal Enterprise.)
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