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Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Vortex-L ^ | Sat, 17 Dec 2011 14:46:07 -0800 | Jed Rothwell

Posted on 12/21/2011 4:56:03 AM PST by Kevmo


Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Jed Rothwell Sat, 17 Dec 2011 14:46:07 -0800
I am sorry to report that the authorities have finally closed down cold
fusion research at SAPWAR. After Frank Gordon left, the project was on life
support. Recent reports on Fox News and elsewhere mentioned it, bringing
about the inevitable coup de grace.


Like most cold fusion projects, this was a shoestring or "bootlegged"
operation. It was done by retired researchers such as Szpak, and others
working nights and weekends. The equipment was scavenged or bought by
private individuals. But, as we all know, people opposed to cold fusion
will not tolerate any project, even if it costs essentially nothing.
Academic freedom means nothing to them. It never occurs to them they might
be wrong, because -- Like Park and Yugo -- they have read nothing and they
know nothing. They make no distinction between cold fusion and a perpetual
motion machines or water memory. Any research they disagree with *must not
be allowed*, period.


Whenever cold fusion appears in the mass media I shudder, because I know it
will trigger a backlash. Cold fusion researchers keep a low profile for a
good reason. They know perfectly well that when some nitwit such as Krivit
reveals there may be a source of funding, or a project being organized,
that will trigger opposition. Robert Park will pull strings. Others will
organize letter-writing campaigns. Mary Yugo will publish unfounded
accusations of fraud and guilt by association. You can see the dynamic at
work in this article, where someone is trying to shut down NASA interest in
cold fusion:

"Why is NASA Langley Wasting Time on Cold Fusion Research?"

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/12/why-is-nasa-lan.html

The people in charge of the Navy and the DoE know nothing about cold
fusion, and they do not care about it. When they get letters from
scientists or members of the public saying "someone in your organization is
committing fraud" they do not ask questions. They close it down, whatever
it is. Their main concern is their public image with the taxpayers. The
last thing they need is to be accused of countenancing academic fraud or
crazy research.


This has been happening for 22 years. Given this environment, it is
surprising that cold fusion survived at all. Dozens of projects such as
this one and the one at MIT were crushed, mostly without ever being allowed
to publish anything, and without any knowledge by the public. I knew about
the MIT project described by Stolper because Gene Mallove was involved, and
he was reporting to me. I was helping to fund things like this. No one else
ever learned about it because it worked. Any time positive results are
achieved, the opposition will pull out the stops to have the researchers
fired or pushed into final retirement. That's how it works. That is why I
and others gave up even trying to establish projects at major institutions
years ago. We know how it will end. That is why I think there no hope of
funding Miley et al., and no point. Sure it would be important work. But it
is not worth getting some poor grad student in trouble, or ruining her
career prospects. The results will be bottled up, the grad student's
reputation torn to shreds by nitwits, and the mass media will report only
lies and distortions. Yeah, I may get another informal positive result I
can upload to LENR-CANR.org, but that is not worth destroying someone's
career. It won't change anything.


Fortunately, Rossi and Defkalion are privately funded and immune to
interference. Rossi is well aware of how academic politics work in the U.S.
That is one of the reasons he has not made much of an effort to work with
universities and national labs. Even if they get positive results, it will
be reported as a failure and fraud. That is what happened to the National
Cold Fusion Institute, and the Japanese NEDO project. When Miles
demonstrated heat at the NEDO over a few weeks, the scientifically
trained bureaucrats in charge, who were in the same building, *refused to
get up, walk down the hall, and look*. Talk about willful ignorance! Mary
Yugo has nothing on them. They were busy writing a report saying that no
positive results were achieved. They published that in Japanese soon after
Miles left and the project was shut down. Perhaps they hoped Miles would
not read it. Miles, being no fool, sent it to me, and I translated it. He
was pretty upset but not surprised. As someone remarked "the fix was in
from the start." It could not be more blatant. Their job was to lie, stick
the knife into the project, and prevent any other research. In his book,
Huizenga bragged that was his assignment, and he was proud of how well he
did it. The 2004 DoE review was also a charade. It was clear beforehand it
would be a joke, or parlor trick, not a serious review. That is why Storms
refused to participate, and why I told the participants beforehand, "beware
of what you wish for."

- Jed








TOPICS: Business/Economy; Politics; Science
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg59243.html

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/12/why-is-nasa-lan.html

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

--------------------------------------------------------------

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144

1 posted on 12/21/2011 4:56:12 AM PST by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; free_life; ..

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg59243.html

http://nasawatch.com/archives/2011/12/why-is-nasa-lan.html

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles


http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144


2 posted on 12/21/2011 4:56:55 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: All; y'all; et al
The comments in that thread are fascinating.


Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Horace Heffner Sun, 18 Dec 2011 02:54:39 -0800

On Dec 17, 2011, at 9:55 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

Here is where Frank Gordon and crew are working now. They are ready to remediate nuclear waste with their foils and they too are working under the radar, given the maturity of their knowledge and trade craft. SPAWAR / DOD says they know how to burn nuclear waste, DOE says that's impossible therefore not real. To admit that nuclear waste can be remediated with co-dep foils is to admit that all their energy clients are wrong. http:// www.globalenergycorporation.net/

Here is some stunning stuff:

http://www.globalenergycorporation.net/Tech.aspx

"While there are numerous products possible, GEC is currently focusing on the GeNiE Hybrid Fusion, Fast-Fission Reactor that will use either natural uranium or existing hazardous waste as fuel."

This is an amazing claim. Frank Gordon is a reliable scientist. The technology is apparently still not developed, but I think this kind of claim would not be made lightly.

I have to wonder if the day has arrived or close to arriving that I need no longer concern myself with cold fusion and can go on to the other things in my queue. Perhaps they finally got around to testing tritium in their protocol, for reasons discussed on p. 29 of:

http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/CFnuclearReactions.pdf

A DT reaction, even if by cold fusion, always produces a neutron. There is only one probably channel. For this reason I have suggested tritium doping of deuterium experiments is an important LENR diagnostic technique.

I note there is no mention of cold fusion. This leads me to believe it is more likely the neutron source may be a DT neutron tube.

For some background see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_generator

Here is some background on neutron tubes from a now defunct web site:

http://www.mfphysics.com/About%20NG.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------ -
About MF Physics Neutron Generators

Neutron Sources

Neutrons may be produced using a number of techniques including isotopic
sources, small deuterium-tritium neutron generators, and large accelerators.

Isotopic neutron sources produce continuous fluxes of neutrons. The most
common isotopic source our neutrons is from spontaneous fission of
Californium-252 (252Cf). The average energy of neutrons from 252Cf is 2.3 MeV. The half life is 2.6 years. Neutrons may also be produced by mixing an isotope which emits a particle with beryllium-9. Neutrons are produced by
the (a, n) reaction with beryllium. Common (a,n) sources are:

239Pu with 9Be, 226Ra with 9Be, and 241Am with 9Be

Isotopic neutron sources have the advantage having a long useful life and
producing a relatively constant flux of neutrons. They may also be
relatively inexpensive for low flux (<108 neutrons per second) sources.
However, isotopic sources have several disadvantages. The neutron output can not be turned off, requiring that they be contained within bulky shielding
at all times. Isotopic neutron sources can not be pulsed and the energy
spectrum of the emitted neutrons is broad and peaks at energies below the
threshold for some important reactions.

Neutron Generators

Small neutron generators using the deuterium (2H) - tritium (3H) reaction
are the most common accelerator based (as opposed to isotopic) neutron
sources. Neutrons are produced by creating deuterium ions and accelerating these ions into a tritium or deuterium target. The D-D reaction is used only in special circumstances because the neutron yield from the D-T reaction is
~100 times higher.

D + T¨ n + 4He En = 14.2 MeV

D + D¨ n + 3He En = 2.5 MeV

Yield(D,T) ~ 100 x Yield(D,D)

Neutrons produced from the D-T reaction are emitted isotropically
(uniformly in all directions) from the target. Neutron emission from the D-D reaction is slightly peaked in the forward (along the axis of the ion beam)
direction. In both cases, the He nucleus (a particle) is emitted in the
exact opposite direction of the neutron.

Most small d-t accelerators are sealed tube neutron generators. The ion
source, ion optics and the accelerator target are enclosed in within a
vacuum tight enclosure. High voltage insulation between the ion optical
elements of the tube is provided by either glass or ceramic insulators.

The neutron tube is, in turn, enclosed in a metal housing, the accelerator head, which is filled with an dielectric media to insulate the high voltage elements of the tube from the laboratory surroundings. The accelerator and
ion source high voltages are provided by external power supplies. The
control console allows the operator to adjust the operating parameters of the neutron tube. The power supplies are normally located within 10-30 feet of the accelerator head. The Control Console may be located as far as 50-100
feet from the accelerator head.

The basic features of a sealed neutron tube are illustrated in the
schematic. This is typical of the neutron tubes used in the MF Physics
A-801, A-325, A-320 and A-210/211 neutron generators.

Ions are generated using a Penning ion source. The Penning source is a low gas pressure, cold cathode ion source which utilizes crossed electric and magnetic fields. The gas pressure in the source is regulated by heating or cooling the gas reservoir element. The ions source anode is at a positive potential, either dc or pulsed, with respect to the source cathode. The ion
source voltage is normally between 2 and 7 kilovolts.

A plasma is formed along the axis of the anode which traps electrons which, in turn, ionize gas in the source. The ions are extracted through the exit
cathode. Under normal operation, the ion species produced by the Penning
source are over 90% molecular ions.

Ions emerging from the exit cathode are accelerated through the potential
difference between the exit cathode and the accelerator electrode. The
schematic indicates that the exit cathode is at ground potential and the
target is at high (negative) potential. This is the case in many sealed tube
neutron generators. However, in cases when it is desired to deliver the
maximum flux to a sample, it is desirable to operate the neutron tube with the target grounded and the source floating at high (positive) potential.
The accelerator voltage is normally between 80 and 180 kilovolts.

The ions pass through the accelerating electrode and strike the target. When ions strike the target, 2 - 3 electrons per ion are produced by secondary
emission. In order to prevent these secondary electrons from being
accelerated back into the ion source, the accelerator electrode is biased negative with respect to the target. This voltage, called the suppressor voltage, must at least 500 volts and may be as high as a few kilovolts. Loss of suppressor voltage will result in damage, possibly catastrophic, to the
neutron tube.

Some neutron tubes incorporate an intermediate electrode, called the focus or extractor electrode, to control the size of the beam spot on the target.
Both the A-711 neutron generator and the A-910/920 neutron generators
incorporate sealed neutron tubes which have focus electrodes.

The target is a thin film of a metal such as titanium, scandium, or
zirconium which is deposited on a copper or molybdenum substrate. Titanium, scandium, and zirconium form stable chemical compounds called metal hydrides when combined with hydrogen or its isotopes. These metal hydrides are made up of two hydrogen (deuterium or tritium) atoms per metal atom and allow the target to have extremely high densities of hydrogen. This is important to maximize the neutron yield of the neutron tube. The gas reservoir element
also uses metal hydrides as the active material. All MF Physics neutron
tubes are designed such that the gas reservoir element and the target each
incorporate equal amounts of deuterium and tritium. In these mixed gas
tubes, both the ion beam and target contain 50% deuterium and 50% tritium.
This allows the tubes to have very stable neutron yields over their
operational life. The total tritium content of MF Physics neutron tubes
ranges from 2-5 Curies.

An alternative to the sealed tube neutron generator is the pumped, drift
tube accelerator. These differ from the sealed tube neutron generator in
that the accelerating structure is continuously pumped by a sputter ion
pump. Gas to be ionized is introduced directly into the device from an
external supply. Ions from the accelerating structure pass through the ion
pump, through an in-line valve and down a short tube to the target. The
target may be isolated from the rest of the accelerator by closing the in line valve. This allows easy replacement of the target. The advantage of a
drift tube accelerator is that they are very versatile in terms of the
isotopic species used in the ion beam and the target. The experimenter has easy access to the target area and the initial neutron yield may be quite
high. The disadvantages are the neutron yield decreases rapidly with
operation and the target life is quite short, as little as a few hours. When
used as a D-T accelerator, extreme caution must be used when changing
targets in order to avoid contamination of the laboratory with tritium. The MF Physics model A-1254 is an example of a pumped, drift tube accelerator.

Advantages of Neutron Generators

Neutron generators possess none of the disadvantages of isotopic neutron
sources. Sealed tube neutron generators can be turned off. They may be
operated either as continuous or pulsed neutron sources. The neutrons
produced are monoenergetic (2.5 MeV or 14 MeV). The 14 MeV neutrons are
sufficiently energetic to excite n,nâg reactions in nitrogen and oxygen
which are particularly important to many applications.

MF Physics, 5074 List Drive, Colorado Springs, CO 80919

Voice: 719-598-9549 email: neutr...@mfphysics.com FAX: 719-598-2599

Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/






3 posted on 12/21/2011 5:00:18 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: All; y'all; et al

Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
Jed Rothwell Sun, 18 Dec 2011 09:03:40 -0800
Going through my notes again . . . I should say there is still some hope at
SPAWAR that after-hours or weekend research may be allowed. They are still
negotiating, so let us not raise a big stink about this. No point in riling
up the opposition more than usual.

They are discouraged.

As I said, most cold fusion research is done on a shoestring, tucked away
in a corner were the people in charge will not notice it. You have to keep
a low profile in this business. So please do not write letters to the Navy
demanding this be allowed. You will only make things worse. I will greatly
regret relaying this news here if people bring pressure on the Navy, and
the Navy makes life even more miserable for cold fusion researchers.

The skeptics should feel free to keep writing to authorities. Mary Yugo
should continue to respond to any mass media article in the comment section
with unfounded, vile allegations of fraud and guilt by association, written
under a a pen name. It is only words, and words have no consequences. You
cannot make things worse than you already have. Maintain your unshakable
conviction that anything you disagree with, you do not understand, or you
have not bothered to read must be "pathological science" or fraud. We get
it. Research you don't like must not be allowed. Ever. Even on weekends,
done by 85-year-old professors. You want stasis and the end of science, and
that is what you will get. As Martin Fleischmann said: "People do not want
progress. It makes them uncomfortable. They don't want it, and they shan't
have it."

- Jed








4 posted on 12/21/2011 5:04:01 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
22 years of smoke and no fire, is what kills cold fusion...ahem...research.

Well, that, and charlatans like Rossi carrying the flag.

Photobucket
5 posted on 12/21/2011 5:06:13 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: ZX12R
22 years of smoke and no fire, is what kills cold fusion...ahem...research.

Well, that, and charlatans like Rossi carrying the flag.

I certainly have doubts about Rossi, but MIT lead a very concerted FAX and internet campaign to discredit Pons and Fleischmann starting just a few days after their announcement back in 1989. I was a full-time student back then, and I remember. Physics professors at my school were being "lobbied" to "oppose" the results of Pons and Fleischmann. I thought it was very strange behavior at the time, and in hindsight it only seems more shameful.

6 posted on 12/21/2011 5:20:06 AM PST by Steely Tom (Obama goes on long after the thrill of Obama is gone)
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To: Kevmo

Dear Jed, I feel your pain! The world is little colder and darker, birds don’t sing so loudly as they once did and little children cry in the counting houses! oh, boo hoo.


7 posted on 12/21/2011 5:24:13 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Steely Tom
I certainly have doubts about Rossi, but MIT lead a very concerted FAX and internet campaign to discredit Pons and Fleischmann starting just a few days after their announcement back in 1989. I was a full-time student back then, and I remember. Physics professors at my school were being "lobbied" to "oppose" the results of Pons and Fleischmann. I thought it was very strange behavior at the time, and in hindsight it only seems more shameful.

I had a very different experience. I was working at a major University at the time cold fusion hit the big time. I actually attended a lecture by Pons and Fleischmann there. Most scientists I knew were skeptical of course, but P & F were given the benefit of the doubt to make their claim and back it up.

Also, right after the cold fusion hullabaloo, every chemistry research group in this University were conducting their own cold fusion experiments in one variety or another, although, if you were to ask them about it now, they would deny it.
8 posted on 12/21/2011 5:35:28 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Kevmo
Keep posting to yourself and you'll go blind.

As for Jed Rothwell, he acts like the gatekeeper to all things cold fusion but let's look at the other side:

Link to a look at Jed Rothwell

He's also the librarian at: LENR-CANR.ORG Certainly not an uninterested neutral observer yet we've been subject to his pronouncements for a couple of months.

9 posted on 12/21/2011 6:19:35 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Steely Tom; Kevmo
I was a full-time student back then, and I remember. Physics professors at my school were being "lobbied" to "oppose" the results of Pons and Fleischmann. I thought it was very strange behavior at the time, and in hindsight it only seems more shameful.

Hot fusion research is a major cash cow of the physics research community. Credible cold fusion results would kill that immediately.

I'm still waiting for Rossi to produce one customer (with reputation and credibility) willing to make a public statement to the effect of "We have been running our e-cat at our facility for over a week, and have recorded large net energy output". Rossi says he's got customers. His big customer from October has had the device for close to two months. It's time we see customer reviews.

10 posted on 12/21/2011 6:26:26 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: Steely Tom

20+ years ago I was a regular visitor at many of the labs of DOE, USAF, USN, etc. Almost all had small, quiet research projects into “cold fusion”.

They were getting anomalous results, but they had difficulty repeating them.

There are things in the interface between physics and chemistry that we do not understand. Dogma has no place in science. Anomalies lead to deeper understanding and new technologies.

It is a travesty that some physicists and administrators are trying to suppress research that could lead to incredible breakthroughs.


11 posted on 12/21/2011 6:40:43 AM PST by darth
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To: Lx

Here’s my standard ‘ignore’ post to Lx.

This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. Maybe you should sign up for a few more years of therapy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2813439/posts?page=91#91

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=165#165

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=164#164

• Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:55:59 PM • 164 of 169
Lx to Kevmo
I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now.
It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding.
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12 posted on 12/21/2011 8:40:15 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: PapaBear3625

Rossi says he’s got customers.
***And no one else says that. Either it’s a scam or he is in the process of blowing the lid off cold fusion. At this point, it is his business and how he chooses to proceed in the light of obvious and determined opposition is his decision.


13 posted on 12/21/2011 8:44:40 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
Poor Kevmo, the Rhode Island Red of Freerepublic. Here's his latest photo:

I think I see your problem. You take this literally, "Lx to Kevmo
I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now.
It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding."

Now, I meant the part about Kevmo needing therapy but if he thinks what I supposedly wrote about myself is serious, it's no wonder he believes in Rossi.

Kevmo, do I sound nicer, more sympathetic and understanding? Did you know I have a cold fusion device?

So Kevmo, when you look in the mirror, or do you avoid them, do you weep when you see the image above looking back at you?

Really Kevmo, you think you get to make all the B.S posts you want but are too cowardly to respond. Keeping up with your present ignore trajectory, you'll be speaking to yourself and only yourself in 2.1 months. And you know your parents told you how it could cause blindness when they caught you.

14 posted on 12/21/2011 8:56:34 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx

Here’s my standard ‘ignore’ post to Lx.

This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. Maybe you should sign up for a few more years of therapy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2813439/posts?page=91#91

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=165#165

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=164#164

• Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:55:59 PM • 164 of 169
Lx to Kevmo
I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now.
It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding.
Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies


15 posted on 12/21/2011 9:04:57 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Steely Tom
"I certainly have doubts about Rossi, but MIT lead a very concerted FAX and internet campaign to discredit Pons and Fleischmann starting just a few days after their announcement back in 1989.I was a full-time student back then, and I remember. Physics professors at my school were being "lobbied" to "oppose" the results of Pons and Fleischmann."

Oh, they did a lot more than just lobby. Gene Mallove discovered that the MIT cold fusion experiments (which were used to deny that cold fusion existed),had, in actual fact, FOUND THE SAME ANOMALOUS HEAT that Pons and Fleischmann had. "Someone" ALTERED THE DATA in the report from what had actually been found in the experiment.

So, the only DOCUMENTED case of fraud known in the whole field of cold fusion was committed NOT by the folks who were "touting" cold fusion, but by those who were "denying" it.

16 posted on 12/21/2011 9:39:45 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo
Wow! This is great news for the Cold Fusion/LENR crowd, and total vindication for Andrea Rossi and his E-Cat!

After all, for the last several months, the Rossi fanboys have been strongly suggesting that SPAWAR was Rossi's "secret customer". The one that was so impressed with Rossi's E-Cat that they ordered a dozen more.

Obviously, this must be true, and not only that, they were so impressed with Rossi's E-Cat that they don't feel the need to do any more research. Rossi has Cold Fusion/LENR all figured out and ready for production.

Alternatively, this is the result of the evil Illuminati preventing us from having unlimited free energy from Rossi's wonderful E-Cat.

Of course, the real reason is that they are tired of wasting their time and money on a "science" that hasn't produced any useful results after 20 years of trying

17 posted on 12/21/2011 10:03:28 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo

I know the exact workings of cold fusion. I utilized it for 17 years and then divorced her. :)


18 posted on 12/21/2011 11:25:15 AM PST by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: Kevmo
My standard response to Kevmo’s continual ducking of debate.

Poor Kevmo, the Rhode Island Red of Freerepublic. Here's his latest photo:

I think I see your problem. You take this literally, "Lx to Kevmo I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now. It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding."

Now, I meant the part about Kevmo needing therapy but if he thinks what I supposedly wrote about myself is serious, it's no wonder he believes in Rossi.

Kevmo, do I sound nicer, more sympathetic and understanding? Did you know I have a cold fusion device?

So Kevmo, when you look in the mirror, or do you avoid them, do you weep when you see the image above looking back at you?

Really Kevmo, you think you get to make all the B.S posts you want but are too cowardly to respond. Keeping up with your present ignore trajectory, you'll be speaking to yourself and only yourself in 2.1 months. And you know your parents told you how it could cause blindness when they caught you.

Exactly why do you continue to avoid debate?

19 posted on 12/21/2011 12:16:09 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Oh, they did a lot more than just lobby. Gene Mallove discovered that the MIT cold fusion experiments (which were used to deny that cold fusion existed),had, in actual fact, FOUND THE SAME ANOMALOUS HEAT that Pons and Fleischmann had. "Someone" ALTERED THE DATA in the report from what had actually been found in the experiment.

My question is why? If you were the researcher who corroborated P&F's work, would you bow down to the University or would you publish that you had indeed replicated their results? Now, if someone altered the data, why didn't the person whose data was altered step forth?

If what is said about what MIT did is true, that is unconscionable behavior and someone should have said something; the researcher who corroborated the data should have stepped forth. What was the person who replicated the tests job? Was he a student, teacher, tenured teacher, who? Did they know the trail the data took so they could point to the person doing the data manipulation?

If I just replicated a test that will affect all mankind, I'm not going to be worried about getting canned over coming forward and stating that the results were replicated AND that someone had altered the data.

I don't know how they do it now, whether they use computers or not, but when I went to school, any class where you had to keep a lab book, you had to number the pages on day one. Now, it's possible to set up two sets of books but that doesn't matter as the person who corroborated the results would use his normal book which should have reflected all the work he or she had done since the book was started.

This makes no sense. It's like the conspiracy theorists that think there is a magical cure for cancer but it's being withheld due to the money brought in by normal procedures. The only problem, Doctors get cancer too and no matter how committed they were to their job, It's one thing to take one for the team, it's another thing to die knowing there is a cure.

I'd like to know all about MIT's role in this. They are a preeminent school, in the top five and they're going to risk their considerable reputation over this?

How much funding if any do they receive for hot fusion?

I hope the whole sordid truth comes out.

20 posted on 12/21/2011 12:36:16 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: count-your-change
Dear Jed, I feel your pain! The world is little colder and darker, birds don’t sing so loudly as they once did and little children cry in the counting houses! oh, boo hoo.

LOL! Ditto!

Why don't Jed and all the other weepy cold fusion fan boys all contribute $5 via Paypal? If the research costs "almost nothing," then that should get it going again.

21 posted on 12/21/2011 3:53:45 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62
Why don't Jed and all the other weepy cold fusion fan boys all contribute $5 via Paypal? If the research costs "almost nothing," then that should get it going again.
Rossi has supposedly sold over $20 million worth of E-Cats in the last couple of months just to one (secret) customer. Maybe he should toss a few bucks that way.

For that matter, since Rossi has reneged on his promise to pay the University of Bologna to test his device (for which he supposedly sold his house to pay), he could use some of that money as well.

22 posted on 12/21/2011 4:27:01 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

I don’t know but something, I can’t name it, but something makes me think you’re not serious.


23 posted on 12/21/2011 5:10:46 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Moonman62

I think that’s a boffo idea!


24 posted on 12/21/2011 6:13:59 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: darth
Anomalies lead to deeper understanding and new technologies.

It should if the anomaly is due to something more than bad experiments or fraud. It's over 20 years later and cold fusion is still, at best, an anomaly. It only took a year to figure out muon catalyzed cold fusion and that was over 50 years ago.

25 posted on 12/21/2011 6:38:31 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Johnny B.

the Rossi fanboys have been strongly suggesting that SPAWAR was Rossi’s “secret customer”
***I don’t know how many times I need to remind pathoskeps (or better, skeptopaths) like yourself, I’m not a Rossi fan I’m a LENR fan. Your whole argument is based upon this “strongly suggesting” that others MAY have indulged in which means you’re arguing against something that even in its best light is obviously not proof, so it amounts to a straw argument.

It is incidents such as this that reveal how deep the bowlsheet goes with guys like you. You claim to support LENR but not Rossi, and when LENR gets a bad shake you jump all over it.

Why is it that almost none of you guys can put together more than 2 posts without classic logical fallacies being invoked? Did you never make it past high school critical thinking classes?


26 posted on 12/21/2011 11:29:09 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
***I don’t know how many times I need to remind pathoskeps (or better, skeptopaths) like yourself, I’m not a Rossi fan I’m a LENR fan.
You are both, which is unfortunate since your desperate support of LENR is blinding you to Rossi's obvious scam.

The fact remains that after 20 years, there still isn't any there there.

27 posted on 12/22/2011 2:34:31 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

My support of LENR is not blinding me to the possibility that it is a scam. I have considered the possibility. I have looked at the angles, how Rossi could have done some magician’s trick to fool skeptics like Levi who went into it looking for exactly such tricks.

How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real (or Fake)
LENR.QUMBO.com ^ | April 6, 2011 | Alan Fletcher
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:52:15 PM by Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2730401/posts

It is blind skeptopaths such as yourself who will not look at the science behind these developments.

For instance, almost all of you seem to be slackjawed for a response to the fact that the Pons-Fleishmann effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times.

https://springerlink3.metapress.com/content/8k5n17605m135n22/resource-secured/?target=fulltext.pdf&sid=xwvgza45j4sqpe3wceul4dv2&sh=www.springerlink.com

Jing-tang He
• Nuclear fusion inside condense matters
• Frontiers of Physics in China
Volume 2, Number 1, 96-102, DOI: 10.1007/s11467-007-0005-8
This article describes in detail the nuclear fusion inside condense matters—the Fleischmann-Pons effect, the reproducibility of cold fusions, self-consistency of cold fusions and the possible applications

http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)


Scientific American

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-scientists-sin

1. Jed Rothwell
11:52 AM 6/20/10
Shermer says that Goodstein concluded that cold fusion was most likely a case of scientists who “convince themselves that they are in the possession of knowledge that does not in fact exist.”

Cold fusion has been replicated in over 180 major laboratories, by roughly 1,500 professional scientists. These replications have been published in roughly 800 papers in mainstream, peer reviewed journals such as J. Electroanal. Chem. and Japanese J. of Applied Physcis. J. He of the Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences estimates that the effect has been observed in roughly 14,000 experimental runs (Front. Phys. China (2007) 1: 96 102).

Many of the results were at low signal to noise ratio, but others were high, such as heat from 10 to 100 W, and tritium at 50 times background (Los Alamos, Texas A&M) up to several million times (BARC).

Most of the researchers who have reported positive results are senior, distinguished experts, such as the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, government of India, and the experts at Los Alamos in charge of the Tritium Systems Test Assembly and the Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor at Princton. Only senior researchers can get funding because of academic politics.

When a result has been widely replicated at high signal to noise ratios and reported in the literature, that result is real, by definition. There is no other standard of reality in science. If it were possible for hundreds of scientists in hundreds of laboratories to be wrong, the experimental method would not work, and no result would be meaningful, and science itself would not work. If Shermer and Goodstein would substitute some other standard of truth, and ignore replication and peer-review, they are engaged in some form of faith-based religion or a popularity contest, not science.


28 posted on 12/22/2011 2:57:34 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
For instance, almost all of you seem to be slackjawed for a response to the fact that the Pons-Fleishmann effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times.
After seeing how uncritically willing the field has been to accept every ridiculous claim by Rossi, I have serious doubts about the basic competence of the entire field. After devoting their careers to such a dead-end field, I suspect they will grasp at any straw, no matter how dubious.
29 posted on 12/22/2011 3:36:42 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

After devoting their careers to such a dead-end field, I suspect they will grasp at any straw, no matter how dubious.
***Your posts are almost perfect examples of a skeptopath.


30 posted on 12/22/2011 4:01:57 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
***Your posts are almost perfect examples of a skeptopath.
We'll see. What you call "skeptopath" has been the most reasonable position to take for the last 20 years. I suspect it will serve me well for the next 20 years.
31 posted on 12/22/2011 4:14:18 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Lx

“I’d like to know all about MIT’s role in this. They are a preeminent school, in the top five and they’re going to risk their considerable reputation over this?”

“I hope the whole sordid truth comes out.”

http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/mitcfreport.pdf

“How much funding if any do they receive for hot fusion?”

A lot. At the time Mallove wrote his critique, ~$250,000,000.

Conveniently, Mallove was killed in “an attempted burglary”.


32 posted on 12/22/2011 5:16:17 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo
I don’t know how many times I need to remind pathoskeps (or better, skeptopaths) like yourself, I’m not a Rossi fan I’m a LENR fan.

Never mind that 95% of the spam you put on FR is about Rossi, although it does seem that over the past couple of weeks, your puppy love for Rossi may be fading. Are you finally convinced that he's nothing more than a con artist?

33 posted on 12/22/2011 6:53:08 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Lx; Kevmo
Lx, dude, if you don't like the thread, scroll past. Personally, until Cold Fusion is proven impossible, I like knowing about the developments -- if any.

You remind me of a guy who goes through the phone book, calling women to tell them he wouldn't go out with them.

34 posted on 12/22/2011 6:59:51 AM PST by Lazamataz (That's all.)
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To: Kevmo
For instance, almost all of you seem to be slackjawed for a response to the fact that the Pons-Fleishmann effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times.

How many times was the energy output accurately predicted, or were they all anomalous like Pons-Fleishmann?

35 posted on 12/22/2011 7:09:42 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Lazamataz
You remind me of a guy who goes through the phone book, calling women to tell them he wouldn't go out with them.

Unlike you who goes through the phone book, calling women to tell them he will go out with them.

36 posted on 12/22/2011 7:12:08 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Kevmo
My support of LENR is not blinding me to the possibility that it is a scam. I have considered the possibility. I have looked at the angles, how Rossi could have done some magician’s trick to fool skeptics like Levi who went into it looking for exactly such tricks.

According to a post by Sterling Allan, Levi is a Rossi employee, not a skeptic.

37 posted on 12/22/2011 7:14:35 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Lazamataz

Your response is duly noted and filed.


38 posted on 12/22/2011 7:24:37 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Kevmo
Oh no, stop the presses, Jed Rothwell has spoken.

Your posting of that Scientific American article and then Jed Rothwell strongly suggests he wrote the SA article when all he did was comment on it. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.

Replicated 14,700 times, so, where's my Mr. Fusion?

39 posted on 12/22/2011 7:29:53 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
What? A lot. At the time Mallove wrote his critique, ~$250,000,000.

That's a lot of, um, incentive...

40 posted on 12/22/2011 7:31:09 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Moonman62

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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41 posted on 12/22/2011 8:09:11 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Moonman62

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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42 posted on 12/22/2011 8:10:48 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Moonman62

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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43 posted on 12/22/2011 8:11:32 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Lx

Here’s my standard ‘ignore’ post to Lx.

This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. Maybe you should sign up for a few more years of therapy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2813439/posts?page=91#91

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=165#165

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=164#164

• Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:55:59 PM • 164 of 169
Lx to Kevmo
I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now.
It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding.
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44 posted on 12/22/2011 8:13:33 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
My standard response to Kevmo’s continual ducking of debate.

Poor Kevmo, the Rhode Island Red of Freerepublic. Here's his latest photo:

I think I see your problem. You take this literally, "Lx to Kevmo I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now. It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding."

Now, I meant the part about Kevmo needing therapy but if he thinks what I supposedly wrote about myself is serious, it's no wonder he believes in Rossi.

Kevmo, do I sound nicer, more sympathetic and understanding? Did you know I have a cold fusion device?

So Kevmo, when you look in the mirror, or do you avoid them, do you weep when you see the image above looking back at you?

Really Kevmo, you think you get to make all the B.S posts you want but are too cowardly to respond. Keeping up with your present ignore trajectory, you'll be speaking to yourself and only yourself in 2.01 months. And you know your parents told you how it could cause blindness when they caught you.

Exactly why do you continue to avoid debate?

I bet your hero Jed Rothwell doesn't duck debate.

45 posted on 12/22/2011 9:29:32 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Kevmo
Pons-Fleishmann effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times.


That is great news! Now, let's look at the source for that claim:


Let's see, it appears to come from:
Frontiers of Physics in China


Wait, I found a source from the incredibly shy, Jed Rothwell:
September 22, 2009 2:16 PM
Jed Rothwell said...

You wrote:

"Am I an expert on this? No."

Then I suggest you read original, peer-reviewed sources written by experts.

". . . but F&P have simply not been replicated, despite numerous attempts."

That is incorrect. The effect has been replicated at well over 200 major laboratories (E. Storms, Los Alamos), in roughly 14,700 experimental runs (J. He, Chines Ac. of Sciences). Most replications that I have observed or read about were successful.


Hmmm, it seems to me that the only sources I could find were from our own Kevmo's endless spamming and the painfully shy Jed-thro Rothwell.

I would like to see multiple sources verifying this number since it's bandied about in every thread. Are the writers trying to reach critical mass so that when people question the number, they can answer," It's settled science". Yeah, like Global Warming.


I would like to see a couple of different, reliable sites confirming this number, until then, it's mere propaganda. Am I supposed to believe the P&F team who were seared, shunned and then declared Persona non grata would sit around knowing the method they found has been confirmed so they can get their credibility back or is this more hucksterism on behalf of the cold fusion true believers?
Do I think cold fusion or LENR is possible? I'm not qualified to say but if they are getting anomalous unexplainable results, then they'd be foolish to stop before they at least figure out the mechanism. If true, it will, not maybe, change the world.

While I might not be qualified on the nuclear physics, I am more than qualified to comment on their test procedures which would have had my physics teachers laugh in my face in front of the whole class. I know some of the slower folks are trying to make a joke about that, no, I was never laughed at in class. Being the first one done on every lab and every test tends to gain respect.


Shut all of us up and produce a peer reviewed journal that verifies the claim. I don't even care if it's 100 instead of 14,700. That would at least imply that there is some there, there which would justify funding for those labs.

Hell, if you want to find out if spanking leads to a homosexual kid, I bet the researchers would get wheelbarrows of money thrown at them and what exactly would the practical result of that type of research be anyway???


Confirm it or stop quoting it.
46 posted on 12/23/2011 2:14:54 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx

Here’s my standard ‘ignore’ post to Lx.

This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. Maybe you should sign up for a few more years of therapy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2813439/posts?page=91#91

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=165#165

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2811976/posts?page=164#164

• Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
Saturday, November 26, 2011 1:55:59 PM • 164 of 169
Lx to Kevmo
I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now.
It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding.
Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies


47 posted on 12/23/2011 3:43:07 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
What is the matter Kevmo, you don't have a real source for those 14,700 replications of the LENR effect? Is your house of cards collapsing? I'd like to see those replications, how they did it, what materials they used, did they use the P&F setup or something new but I guess Kevmo, true to his colors can't provide a valid source.

My standard response to Kevmo’s continual ducking of debate.

Poor Kevmo, the Rhode Island Red of Freerepublic. Here's his latest photo:

I think I see your problem. You take this literally, "Lx to Kevmo I see...years of therapy on your horizon, better start now. It’s really helped me be nicer, more sympathetic and understanding."

Now, I meant the part about Kevmo needing therapy but if he thinks what I supposedly wrote about myself is serious, it's no wonder he believes in Rossi.

Kevmo, do I sound nicer, more sympathetic and understanding? Did you know I have a cold fusion device?

So Kevmo, when you look in the mirror, or do you avoid them, do you weep when you see the image above looking back at you?

Really Kevmo, you think you get to make all the B.S posts you want but are too cowardly to respond. Keeping up with your present ignore trajectory, you'll be speaking to yourself and only yourself in 1.99 months. And you know what your parents told you about how it could cause blindness when they caught you numerous times.

Exactly why do you continue to avoid debate? I would expect you would take every advantage to state your case for LENR. I guess your belief is a kilometer wide and millimeter deep.

I bet your hero Jed Rothwell doesn't duck debate.

P.S. Are you corn fed and free range?

48 posted on 12/23/2011 7:28:24 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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