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To Obama, a $50 billion lunar colony is chump change
citizen5408.com ^ | January 29, 2012 | Greg C.

Posted on 01/29/2012 9:30:10 AM PST by FreedomFighter1013

While Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich has been mocked repeatedly by his chief rival, Mitt Romney, there is a compelling series of arguments to be made for returning to the moon, this time in the form of a permanent Lunar colony. Indeed, the Lunar colony idea had been articulated by President George W. Bush in 2004 and was based on solid research developed by many serious thinkers in the space community. It had also been ratified by 2 different congresses, in 2005 and 2008. In fact, the first lunar colony was planned in the mid-1960s, called ALSS (Apollo Logistics Support System) Lunar Base and was cancelled in 1968.

Lunar Colony_1967 Roy Scarfo

Nevertheless, the recent $5-plus trillion run up in our national debt over the last 3 years have made many people less expansive in their thinking when it comes to space exploration for exploration's sake, that is without a concrete, read: commercial, application. more here

(Excerpt) Read more at gregcontreras.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Military/Veterans; Politics; Science
KEYWORDS: colony; moon; newt; spudis
Newt's not so crazy.
1 posted on 01/29/2012 9:30:26 AM PST by FreedomFighter1013
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To: FreedomFighter1013

If spending $50B on a moon base could reduce by $50B the money spent on some of the worse government programs, that would be a net win even if the moon base efforts proved totally worthless. Letting the money stay in the hands of the productive citizens who earn it, or letting it remain available for investment elsewhere, might be even better, but Democrats certainly wouldn’t want that.


2 posted on 01/29/2012 9:39:51 AM PST by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

If we could get the “stimulus” (slush fund) money back from all the Obama friends that it was given to, we could build a base on the moon and probably Vesta too.


3 posted on 01/29/2012 9:44:00 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: supercat
Will We Never Return to the Moon?

I vividly remember watching Neil Armstrong stepping onto the surface of the moon. It was a late night for an eight year old, but my father said I would tell my grandchildren about seeing the first man walk on the moon. The next morning, Miss Baird freshly decorated the entire classroom (It was a summertime art program) in an Apollo theme, with “A SMALL STEP FOR A MAN, A GIANT LEAP FOR MANKIND” in proud block letters above the front chalkboard. It seemed that we were accelerating toward a bright future in the heavens. Yet, humans have not set foot on the moon since 1972. Has mankind simply stumbled after such a great leap, or have we put the tools to reach for the stars outside of our collective grasp?

The Tools to Tame An Undeveloped Expanse

Economic development using only available raw materials located in an undeveloped environment was once central to the national consciousness in the United States. European monarchies made initial capital outlays to explore the west. However, expenditure by national governments did not develop the new world. Economic innovations such as the corporate form enabled almost any entrepreneur to access sufficient capital to finance journeys for commercial benefit. The great fortunes that ensued coincided with increased average longevity, greater knowledge and technical innovations, all of which greatly enhanced the aggregate quality of life of mankind.

In America, the lesson of permitting the free access to capital became central to our national consciousness. One of our first lessons was the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which nearly winked out of existence. After the starvation deaths of many of the Pilgrims, Governor Bradford suspended the provisions of the Mayflower charter requiring the colonists to turn over all production into a common store. Instead, each family received a plot of land to work and manage. The year following resulted in such abundance, that the colonists feasted in thanksgiving to the Lord. Our national day of Thanksgiving is still celebrated today.

Sadly, the mostly unrestrained entepreneurism that forged the expansion and construction of the United States has been a target for many who seek to provide for even greater good. Yet, nearly every attempt to legislate egalitarian ideals has resulted in the restriction of the free access to capital for entrepreneurs. The inevitable result is lost opportunity and economic stagnation.

So, has mankind stumbled or stagnated, when it comes to reaching toward the moon? What follows may surprise you. As you read the following selected quotes from the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967, you should ask whether you, as an investor, would place the extremely high risk portion of you portfolio in a venture where there is no private property, where there is no privacy and where disputes are resolved by the U.N.:

Article I

The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind.

Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be free for exploration and use by all States without discrimination of any kind, on a basis of equality and in accordance with international law, and there shall be free access to all areas of celestial bodies.

There shall be freedom of scientific investigation in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, and States shall facilitate and encourage international co-operation in such investigation. Article II

Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

* * *

Article XI

In order to promote international co-operation in the peaceful exploration and use of outer space, States Parties to the Treaty conducting activities in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, agree to inform the Secretary-General of the United Nations as well as the public and the international scientific community, to the greatest extent feasible and practicable, of the nature, conduct, locations and results of such activities. On receiving the said information, the Secretary-General of the United Nations should be prepared to disseminate it immediately and effectively.

Article XII

All stations, installations, equipment and space vehicles on the Moon and other celestial bodies shall be open to representatives of other States Parties to the Treatyon a basis of reciprocity. Such representatives shall give reasonable advance notice of a projected visit, in order that appropriate consultations may be held and that maximum precautions may be taken to assure safety and to avoid interference with normal operations in the facility to be visited.

Article XVI

Any State Party to the Treaty may give notice of its withdrawal from the Treaty one year after its entry into force by written notification to the Depositary Governments. Such withdrawal shall take effect one year from the date of receipt of this notification.

The solution for stimulating a stagnating reach for the stars should be obvious to our policy makers. Massive expenditures by central governments may be the right formula for proving that great feats of exploration can bear fruit. However, for sustained activity in undeveloped expanses to take root, entrepreneurs need free access to capital. This includes private property and ownership of land. Without it, the Massachusetts Bay Colony would been nothing more than a historical footnote and Thanksgiving would have no meaning to Americans.

The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967 is toxic to the exploration and economic development in the heavens. An amendment to include grants of celestial private property or an outright treaty withdrawal will be the first step toward equipping American entrepreneurs with the tools they need to reach for the stars.

4 posted on 01/29/2012 9:45:22 AM PST by frithguild (Withdraw from the 1967 Treaty on the Exploration and Use of Outer Space that bans private property)
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To: GeronL

In a true free market economy without the shackles of socialism, this would have been accomplished by now. Every bright mind in the world would’ve been attracted to come here and make it happen with the tons of private sector funds out there.

Instead, you have trillions upon trillions of dollars going to social programs that only piss away money and create only dependency and more waste.


5 posted on 01/29/2012 9:48:22 AM PST by bigdirty
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To: bigdirty

Trillions alone have been spent on worthless affirmative action programs for minorities and to this day blacks are still far behind the rest in terms of education, net worth, employment, etc. America has shackled itself with socialism.


6 posted on 01/29/2012 9:49:30 AM PST by bigdirty
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To: KevinDavis; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; ...

Thanks FreedomFighter1013.


7 posted on 01/29/2012 9:51:24 AM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
I was surprised that Newt was unable to give the commercial reason to Mitt about the moon. It would have been a great response to Mitt's, “I'd fire the person who had the idea to create a lunar colony”. I guess Mitt would not want to control the major source of could fusion reactors......
8 posted on 01/29/2012 10:00:27 AM PST by 11th Commandment (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
Look at the Apollo program that put men on the moon. The technical spin offs from that program alone have lead to laptop computers, GPS navigation, improved laser technology, better protective clothing for firefighters and a host of other new technologies. NASA and its contractors also provided a training ground for some of the best engineers and scientists this country has ever seen and an inspiration for kids to go into science and engineering professions.

Obama has single handed killed the US space program and help fill our schools with mediocre union teachers more concerned with political correctness, the pseudo science of global warming and making sure that kids never have to compete least they "feel bad" than teaching them math and science.

9 posted on 01/29/2012 10:07:46 AM PST by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: 11th Commandment

Posters like you always expose their agenda in the posts they make. Tell us how you know Newt was ‘unable’ to give commercial reasons. And you might also show us proof that Newt Gingrich believes in the fictional ‘cold fusion’.


10 posted on 01/29/2012 10:14:52 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: The Great RJ

IMHO, Obama is only a blip on the screen, a bump in the road of the glorious history of America: that is if this year we stand and fight for the right people to lead: Newt


11 posted on 01/29/2012 10:31:50 AM PST by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama: The Man, the Myth, the Marxist)
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To: bigdirty

I agree 1000%


12 posted on 01/29/2012 10:36:01 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: supercat

Jobs...Let’s have all the parts manufactured HERE...and let’s change the corporate tax structure to make it feasible.


13 posted on 01/29/2012 10:48:56 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: 11th Commandment
Didn't understand Mitt's response at all.

Next thing you know...he'll say no computers for school kids...right?? Yeh right!!

14 posted on 01/29/2012 10:51:13 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: bigdirty
America has shackled itself with socialism.

yep

15 posted on 01/29/2012 10:52:02 AM PST by citizen (It's time to decide, folks. Who do you want as president? 4 More of the fascist Zero or Romney?)
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To: The Great RJ
This is the same logic behind every bit of crony capitalism and government-supported subsidy/boondoggle that most conservatives criticize-- that the government is smarter at spotting opportunities, and the private sector is wrong not to be supporting this on its own.
16 posted on 01/29/2012 10:56:53 AM PST by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: Sacajaweau

Yeah,well, if you’re talking about computers for children to have, let the parents or charitable organizations bear the expense. Around here, the schools want to just hand them out. They rather quickly get lost or trashed. The kids have no respect for the pcs because they were given to them, not by their parents, but by the government.


17 posted on 01/29/2012 11:00:59 AM PST by citizen (It's time to decide, folks. Who do you want as president? 4 More of the fascist Zero or Romney?)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Since Liberals are so good at targeting specific taxes at groups whose interests they want to attack, and they see that as a legitimate use of the government’s taxing authority, then lets take a snap shot of the nation’s registered voters, as of November 2012, and place a $50 billion tax on all registered Democrats, apportioned “progressively” based on income, and fund the moon base project with it - from each according to his ability (Democrats hold more wealth in the nation than Republicans) to each according to his need (none, they’re useless).


18 posted on 01/29/2012 11:09:24 AM PST by Wuli
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Newt was right when he said US should put up a prize and private companies would compete to achieve success in space. The remark “No success no prize. Nothing lost!”.
This is what he meant.
http://www.xprize.org/

http://www.virgingalactic.com/overview/

http://www.space.com/1226-rutan-white-knight-carries-37-space-plane-aloft.html

1961 JFK’s speech would be enough for Robamney to have fired him if he was CIC. Those with no eyes to the future are not what we want leading this country.


19 posted on 01/29/2012 11:10:07 AM PST by GOYAKLA (Recall/ Impeachment Day, November 6, 2012. FUBO)
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To: citizen

First graders are marched off to the lab to draw a box on a computer. Pretty stupid and totally disgusted.P>Go back to basics. Kids can;t spell. They can’t make change. Their vocabulary is ttyl and roflmao.


20 posted on 01/29/2012 11:12:42 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: frithguild
They left for the moon on my hubby's birthday, landed on my son's birthday and came back on my mother's birthday.

Met one of the astronauts at some point in time. He had an encased moonrock with him.

It was an exciting time.

Terribly embarrassed by Sputnik though.

21 posted on 01/29/2012 11:16:21 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: GOYAKLA

Prizes are nothing new. Read David Sobel’s “Longitude”.


22 posted on 01/29/2012 11:18:28 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Not to be picky, but to equate the title incorporating a $50 billon dollar price tag with a colony on the moon is downright ludicrous.


23 posted on 01/29/2012 11:19:11 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: frithguild

From xkcd

24 posted on 01/29/2012 11:19:36 AM PST by Darth Reardon (No offense to drunken sailors)
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To: supercat

I agree space exploration is a benefit. I do not believe that a proposal for colonization of the moon, i.e., establishing a ‘moon base’ during a Florida Primary (i.e., to the Space Coast Denizens) has met the mettle of a balanced consideration of pros and cons.....Sorry, I’m for Newt because he may be able to beat Romney, but take this proposal and surrounding issues for what they are worth at this particular time and place (FLORIDA).


25 posted on 01/29/2012 11:22:25 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

WE should give it up and let the Chinese have the moon?


26 posted on 01/29/2012 11:30:21 AM PST by Venturer
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To: FreedomFighter1013
Somebody is already up there.

Who is it?
Nobody knows, or if they do, they are not telling.

Lunar Colonies

The Japanese launched three satellites to orbit and photograph the moon in 2007. Google launched "Google Moon" shortly thereafter where you can view these unadulterated images.

In one particular spot, there appears to be some kind of mining operation going on... see the images as released by the Japanese Space Organization that took the pics and released them and shared them with Google.

Somebody is up there doing something.

One thing you could assume, that would make sense, is that a body like the moon would be a great place to mine asteroids, as they would strike and be easy to recover. The moon has no erosion, no rain or elements that can corrode recoverable resources - so a rare-element asteroid that crashed into the moon would be recoverable billions of years after it first struck.
So all of these images occur around craters, as if some valuable mining/recovery process is going on.

Don't believe it? Take a look. Look up the images by their coordinates on Google Moon or on the photos released by Japan's space agency.

Any explanations?

Lunar Colony Collection

27 posted on 01/29/2012 11:40:52 AM PST by Bon mots ("When seconds count, the police are just minutes away...")
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To: Gaffer

Also not to be picky. :^}
Totals of “LOST” USA Dollars Approximately $2.097 Billion on these two Money Pits, alone
We have naught to show for those fiascos. I would rather have given them to someone who actually delivered!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/business/energy-environment/energy-secretary-defends-solyndra-loan.html

The bankruptcy of Solyndra, the solar powercompany that took $528 million in government loans, was “extremely unfortunate,” Steven Chu, the energy secretary, told lawmakers on Thursday. But he rejected a suggestion put forward by a Republican that he or his department should apologize.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/us/politics/2nd-us-loan-to-solyndra-said-to-have-been-considered.html

Late Tuesday, House Democrats released an e-mail exchange between officials of the Office of Management and Budget on May 24, 2010, that suggested the second application was for $469 million. President Obama visited the factory on the next day, despite growing concerns about the company’s financial problems.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875#.TyWbaONSTeQ
Vice President Joseph Biden heralded the Energy Department’s $529 million loan to the start-up electric car company called Fisker as a bright new path to thousands of American manufacturing jobs. But two years after the loan was announced, the company’s manufacturing jobs are still limited to the assembly of the flashy electric Fisker Karma sports car in Finland.
The loan to Fisker is part of a $1 billion bet the Energy Department has made in two politically connected California-based electric carmakers producing sporty — and pricey — cutting-edge autos. Fisker Automotive, backed by a powerhouse venture capital firm whose partners include former Vice President Al Gore, predicts it will eventually be churning out tens of thousands of electric sports sedans at the shuttered GM factory it bought in Delaware. And Tesla Motors, whose prime backers include PayPal mogul Elon Musk and Google co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin, says it will do the same in a massive facility tooling up in Silicon Valley.


28 posted on 01/29/2012 11:47:01 AM PST by GOYAKLA (Recall/ Impeachment Day, November 6, 2012. FUBO)
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To: Gaffer
Consider a moon base in lieu of our "former" space station. But I don't know how to compare the two.

Can we do more from a moon base?

The next big step might be "Mary the astronaut had a baby girl". Of course, she named it Venus. If it was a boy, she was going to name it ......... ;_)

29 posted on 01/29/2012 12:57:33 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: MHGinTN
Your comment on my post makes zero sense.... The proof I have is that Newt did not retort to Mitt's firing comment... Did you watch the debate? Reason I am surprise is credible scientists have been on radio commenting about the potential of He3. Newt, the candidate with many ideas, did not have that rebuttal ready.... It surprised me and played into Mitt's claim that Newt was pandering.
30 posted on 01/29/2012 2:07:45 PM PST by 11th Commandment (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; ELS; ToxicMich; Cronos; Art in Idaho; perplyone; TheOldLady; Oiao; nepppen; ...



31 posted on 01/29/2012 3:11:01 PM PST by KevinDavis (Ron Paul called Ronald Reagan a miserable failure.....)
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To: Gaffer
That's the price Dr. Spudis place upon it. He also says he's ready to be ridiculed, but can back it up. It's all in the article here.
32 posted on 01/29/2012 3:37:43 PM PST by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama: The Man, the Myth, the Marxist)
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To: KevinDavis

Hi, Ping!


33 posted on 01/29/2012 3:42:56 PM PST by FreedomFighter1013 (Obama: The Man, the Myth, the Marxist)
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To: Bon mots

I must be blind. I don’t see anything manmade in those youtube videos. Or extraterrestrial intelligent either.


34 posted on 01/30/2012 2:54:07 AM PST by hattend (If I wanted you dead, you'd be dead. - Cameron Connor)
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To: frithguild

Nations signed those UN treaties. If a private company managed to get to the moon who could stop it’s development?

Embargo moon minerals? Storm the launch facilities? The countries certainly couldn’t go to the moon.


35 posted on 01/30/2012 3:32:46 AM PST by hattend (If I wanted you dead, you'd be dead. - Cameron Connor)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
the Moon is the pervue of the Chicoms, new...

we have our heads crammed way to far up our collective fundaments...

unless we get a ‘LEADER’ soon we will be the new 3rd world.

36 posted on 01/30/2012 3:50:14 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: FreedomFighter1013

Space exploration and scientific endeavors are for advanced prosperous societies with an entrepreneurial spirit. We are not that country anymore.


37 posted on 01/30/2012 4:02:26 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: hattend

Private companies will never get to the moon because the 1967 Treaty increases the risk that profits will not be realized. No sane investor will put money at risk. Compare what is in place now with what was in place when the US was building out railroads - times when the rate of capital formation was unmatched.


38 posted on 01/30/2012 5:10:53 AM PST by frithguild (Withdraw from the 1967 Treaty on the Exploration and Use of Outer Space that bans private property)
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To: hattend

Private companies will never get to the moon because the 1967 Treaty increases the risk that profits will not be realized. No sane investor will put money at risk. Compare what is in place now with what was in place when the US was building out railroads - times when the rate of capital formation was unmatched.


39 posted on 01/30/2012 5:11:06 AM PST by frithguild (Withdraw from the 1967 Treaty on the Exploration and Use of Outer Space that bans private property)
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To: GOYAKLA
Newt was right when he said US should put up a prize and private companies would compete to achieve success in space. The remark “No success no prize. Nothing lost!”

Wrong. Time is lost. Irretrievably.

In 2004, Robert Bigelow offered a prize of $50 million to the first company to develop an Earth to low Earth orbit passenger vehicle (America's Space Prize). He needs routine access to LEO to service his inflatable commercial space stations.

The prize offer expired in 2010 without a single attempt at winning it.

Prizes are not panaceas, particularly if what is being attempted is just barely possible by government.

40 posted on 01/30/2012 5:16:46 AM PST by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
More from Dr. Spudis: NASA’s New Mission and the Cult of Management

Read that. Newt's right. There is this much[-]room between Obama's health care policy and Mitt's health care policy, and I suggest between their space leadership too.

Voters need to read this and then think of how Newt is campaigning and how this can succeed if enough of the “silent majority” rallies from their funk and acts now!

The GE Years: What Made Reagan Reagan [Newt said this book explained Ronald Reagan's leadership]

41 posted on 01/30/2012 5:41:30 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: central_va
Hi, Cheer up, you sound like a Democrat. The future is what you make of it. This article should raise your spirits: "The Coming Tech-led Boom"

Be well and be cheerful.

42 posted on 01/30/2012 6:38:47 AM PST by FreedomFighter1013 (To Obama, a $50 billion lunar colony is lunch money)
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To: FreedomFighter1013
Yes, I read his article, and what he is discussing is the amortized cost of creating a moon base. It is not the investment cost, and what I'm saying is that $50Billion is ludicrously optimistic. Those are the same kinds of 'benefits' and reduced costs (e.g., dozens of flights per year, three-four day turnaround times ---all pipe dreams in the end) that were given to us for the onset of the Space Shuttle...I wonder where Google keeps the TOTAL DOLLARS spent on the space shuttle program....

He can swear it with a straight face, but I know better than that.

43 posted on 01/30/2012 9:46:04 AM PST by Gaffer
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