Posted on 02/10/2012 12:57:37 PM PST by Kartographer
This morning, I want to talk about these armed parasites. Some time ago I picked up the book Urban Survival Guide by David Morris. On page 86 of the text, which is really a comprehensive twelve-week urban survival course, Morris wrote:
… many people’s survival plan consists of buying just enough ammo to take whatever food they need by force. Just two weeks before writing this, I stood in a circle with eight active duty military talking about how quickly things were crumbling. When the conversation moved to preparations, I found myself listening to them mock families who stockpile food and detail their plans on how to “liberate” it if they ever need to.
Some of the comments were, “If they’re dumb enough to buy food instead of guns, they don’t deserve to live.” and “When it comes down to it, my family is more important than their family and I’ll take what I need.” and “I don’t have room to store a year of food, but I do have room for another case of .223.”
(Excerpt) Read more at survivalandprosperity.com ...
Quark:"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working."
"But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."
"Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8)" (1998)
Preppers’ PING!
This is parasite thinking ... not much beyond their next meal.
Do they honestly believe that other families won’t stalk, hunt and kill parasites, for their own survival? You don’t ignore the rabid dog that bites your neighbor, you hunt the dog down and take it out; so it doesn’t bite your family next.
Will the “thug prepper’s” body armor stop 30-06 AP?
Didn’t think so.
If it is news to you that in a SHTF situation the greatest threat to you and your family are going to be armed bands of people - what did you think it WAS going to be?
Folks like that will be in for a shock when they learn most who stockpile food also believe in taking the necessary steps to protect their life, property, and liberty.
Many preppers I've read of, and conversed with, are more than prepared to keep their rations.
Dilbert covered this a few months ago. Dilbert was going over his supply list with Alice, who said, “I don’t see any defensive weaponry here. I’ll come over and take what I want, and please buy more of these granola bars, I like them” or something like that.
This also came up in Lucifer’s hammer, a survival novel involving a comet strike rather than a Zombie Apocalypse. There were people whose survival plan was to simply take stuff from the people who were not able to defend themselves.
And remember the fallout shelter craze of the 50’s, one “problem” was seen that your neighbors, hungry and possibly contaminated with Grade A fallout, would want to get into your shelter and eat your Spam, so you better have a shotgun to keep them out.
I play “Modern Warfare” with my sons and right before it starts I always look over at em’ and say “It moves, shoot it” ...
Don’t know what that has to do with this thread, but somehow I felt the need to post it
I have made some very basic preparations tho not nearly what would be really needed in a super disaster scenario.
One thing which never crossed my mind is taking someone Else’s food.
I was going to ask for suggestions.
I think some electronic motion sensors, motion sensitive lighting and a couple of good dogs would go a long way towards making parasites like this move on to an easier target.
The families you talk about will be facing military trained people, not street thugs, so a band of 16 ex-military folks would be a handful for untrained people, is, I think, the point OP was making.
Interesting that they focus on ex-military. I know a guy in CT who is NOT ex-military and his entire prep plan is to shoot people.
” I found myself listening to them mock families who stockpile food and detail their plans on how to “liberate” it if they ever need to. “
Sadly, I’ve seen similar sentiments expressed by posters on some of these “Prepper” threads, right here on FR....
The problem that the parasites have is that they have to be correct every time they go up to someone and try to force the issue of food or other supplies.
I would suggest that they would be wrong early on and would be taken off the plaing field.
Hmmmm, some good points to ponder
Between us we can arm the whole block.
Most outsiders will be pretty hungry after a week. Good luck getting into our neighborhood.
It would take a little more organization than the rabble in the projects could muster.
In a SHTF situation - the Government is Dangerous Armed Band of Humans NUMERO UNO!!!!
I remember a late 50s/early 60s TV movie where the family with the fallout shelter was having to force their neighbors away so they could close the door...
Seems to me the best long-term solution is to possess a key skill that will be considered so valuable that others will leave you along in order to keep you around. Of course this only applied til the point where their empty bellies start to do the talking...
This is the problem with the thought process of urban survivalists.
So, you’ve stockpiled your food, and you of course also have enough weapons to protect yourself. Heck, you might have enough that when what is essentially an ARMY of people who don’t have food have assembled to come take you out, you can defend your “country”. Which means you are pretty powerful army.
Now, however, you are running out of food. And you have the power to take out an army against you. Will your family starve, now that you have run out of food?
Or, will you use all the force you have, force strong enough to repel an ARMY of invaders, to take the food of the guy next door? Yes, unless he is even more powerful. You won’t let your family die out of altruism.
But if he can fend you off, then HE was the more powerful, and if he runs out he’ll take you out.
Someone is going to have more weapons and power than you, unless you are the top dog. If you are the top dog, you will rule the world taking out those below you. If not, you will be taken out.
The only way this doesn’t come to a tragic end is if, at some point, you form a treaty with others, a kind of “nation”, where you all mutually defend yourselves. And then you need to mutually ensure your survival, meaning you need some way for people who run out of food to get from those who still have it, to keep factions from defecting and attacking.
Essentially, long-term survival will require the reconstruction of society. You need a government, you need people who are living well enough they aren’t motivated to lash out, and you need power distributed enough that no one person or a small group can take out the group.
Of course, you better pray that the military has prepared successfully, because you have NO CHANCE if the army is starving. It’s going to take you out, and you don’t have tanks, artillary, or close air support.
Wilderness survival is the only way individuals can make it. You find an out-of-the-way place, secure the perimeter, but mostly just STAY HIDDEN. Nobody knows where you are, or what goodies await them, and they can’t waste their time searching for you, not knowing there’s a reason to do so. They will go to where the groups of people are.
So, while I could build up my house to be energy independent, and put a stockpile in my basement, if I was serious about this stuff, my real survival gear would be in a nondescript cabin in the woods out in the middle of nowhere. My plan would be to have enough food and water to make it a month while I assessed whether things were collapsing, and then have gas to drive to my final destination.
Thanks for clueing me in that active duty military should be near the top of my list for people to be pre-emptively dealt with in such a post-collapse situation.
I think the ex-military premise is wrong. Military folks have the discipline,, team skills, and intellect to be just who I would want around me in such a situation. It will be the street thugs, who are already parasites that would try something like that. They won’t last long around ex-military types.
I’ve looked into making insulin from beef or pork pancreas, like they used to do. Surprisingly, it is not that difficult in terms of basic tech.
Not sure that that’s valuable enough, though.
For a laugh, look up the song “Black Powder and Alcohol” by Leslie Fish. She was concerned about the collapse of everything (two decades ago now) and wrote a song to teach people two basic skills- black powder and alcohol.
>>This also came up in Lucifer’s hammer,
I’m a huge Pournelle fan (Niven too), and believe me, he “gets” it on 2A. He used to write article for a Survivalist magazine in the 80s (I think I’m right on the timeframe, know I am right on the authorship). His blog is worth reading, I send him money like I send FR money.
He and Niven are working on Lucifer’s Anvil. I’m not sure what their timeframe is, but wouldn’t be surprised if it were late this year.
http://jerrypournelle.com/jerrypournelle.c/chaosmanor/
the most basic what we need and those mostly in the urban areas have no clue where to get it.
Water.
Ask those in the urban areas where their fresh water supply is for them to live on and where could they go to get water and food if need be and they are clueless.
Here we have animals, hunters, fish, lots of fish, know where various water supplies are and those not so close if something went bad here.
I think people who live in large urban areas will be in bad shape unless they have a Summer home or something like that to go to.
I live in a rural area and think there are enough farmers in the area to help us at least survive. I have things I could trade to people for food. Actually I have enough fruit trees in the yard to survive during the Summer, with just a little bit of other things. Even during the Winter I have pecans and satsumas.
There is a real possibility of roving bands of looters but I think they would for the most part be taken care of by the locals.
I disagree. In a post-collapse world, ex-military (there will be no more "active duty" since there would be no gov't anymore) would be a problem for the same reason that all the ex-KGB guys who now make up the Russian mafia in the ex-Soviet Union are a problem.
“Urban Survivalists” may be an oxymoron.
I know, we hate government, but government is the only thing preventing anarchy. If government collapses, we will need to create it again or few of us will survive.
He must be a democrat-- he thinks his "targets " won't be prepared to shoot him first.
NV gear has become wonderfully affordable!
The only way your neighborhood won’t end up turning on each other is if you create a defacto government within your enclave, and are able to enforce rules, feed your group, and keep those who run out from overcoming the group.
And all the time, the 5 guys with all the guns will be thinking — if we all get together, our families will survive, and we don’t have to defend the dead weight of the others.
I guess you will be OK if you are all equally armed, equally prepared, and never run out of food. Because as soon as you might be running out of food, it will be like the TV show “survivor”, with factions and plots, only for real, and for keeps.
Unless you all are have a very strong ethical and moral compass, and are willing to let your own families starve to death in the name of “society”.
And there ya go...
Highly intelligent and unbelievably clueless.
I’d be hard pressed if things really collapsed. I do however have the means to purify enough water to last me longer than I’d survive; and I know where there is water enough to purify.
What i don’t have is the means to hunt, fish, or otherwise provide food. My family carries our emergency supplies on our backs (that’s a joke about how being obese is a survival technique).
I still think the premise is wrong, but it may be too much of a generality to say that I would trust all ex-military. I understand that the services are facing a gang problem today, and those maggots would be well trained preditors, true enough.
She is your typical Vermont liberal. They live in a bubble world. They do not want to see the true, ugly side of humanity. They hate guns. Anyone who has a gun (legally) is a right-wing fanatic. We can all live on love and group hugs. Sadly, if the SHTF, she will be the first to go down by the looters.
The idea of survival is an old one. I remember reading an article back in the 1950s by “Perry Mason” author, Erle Stanley Gardiner.
The only thing I can remember was his saying one should have an accurate long barreled .22 Revolver or Auto along with ammo. I personally think a .22 rifle would be even better and of course have a spare.
Also powerful airguns simply because ammo would be so easy to stockpile. Not for defense but for hunting. I think someone with some knowledge of the scenario said that game would be hunted out very quickly. Fish would be gone nearly as soon.
Well, as far as longterm survival goes...we all know what the most available “large animal type” protien source will be. A large smoker would come in handy.
“It takes all kinds of critters to make farmer Vincent’s fritters!”
Remember the lights won’t be on. Gizmos that plug in won’t do you much good.
Dogs have been man’s sentry since the dawn of time. I have 4 of the extra large variety, feeding them is a concern.
Some good flashlights, plenty of batteries, invest in good glass on your rifles and live somewhere where you have some elbow space.
in a SHTF scenario... power will be out, unless you supply your own.
if you supply your own, and have lights on... you will just draw them to you.
one strategy would be to create a 'honey pot' to lure in the rabid thugs. a kill house with various traps set up with lights to give the impression of being a solid target. when the thugs attack the house, they'll be in for a surprise.
of course, you better make sure to finish the job... or they'll be hunting for you.
10 years ago... did you think we'd actually be considering such situations inside the US? another thing we can thank the left for
COPY & PASTE FROM MY POST ON THE SAME SUBJECT ON SUNDAY, JUNE 12, 2011 FOLLOWS. FIGURED IT WAS WORTH REPEATING.
Buy ammo. And, do it correctly.....I have a few friends who still don't get it, ie: when I ask, "how much ammo do you have on hand?" I get a few answers of : Got plenty, plus 14 guns in the closet. Have 3 or 4 boxes of 12 ga, a couple for my kids .410, couple of boxes each for my 6 rifles, and a bunch of partial boxes for all my hand guns. I tell them that's fine if they can stay in the house and shoot out the windows, B-U-T if they need to run outside and shoot from behind the car or garage, they may find themselves in the do-do. One can only carry a couple of long guns (of different calibers) and a couple of handguns while on the run, along with their ammo. You shoot up those 3 - 20 round boxes of .30/06, 4 boxes of 7mm, 3 boxes of .45 ACP and you no longer have 3 guns....just 3 clubs.
Designate one shotgun, one rifle and one handgun as your primary "social unrest" home defense weapons and load up on the ammo for them. Having 20 guns doesn't do you any good if all you have is a few rounds for each. Kinda hard to watch out the FRONT living room window where the armed looters are moving around and dig through the BACK bedroom closet for more ammo. ("I KNOW I have at least a half box of .270 somewhere from last deer season......where the hell is it ???").
If you can't afford lots of expensive high caliber ammo, get a few bricks of .22 ammo. 300 rounds flying out that window from your .22 rifle and pistol may not drop a 250 lb man, but a wound in the arm with a .22 will slow him down, take him off the attack and put HIM on defense. Plus, with a bucket of .22 ammo, your wife and kid can easily load one gun while you shot the other.
Don't forget magazines / clips. It's great that you have 1 EXTRA mag that came with your favorite deer rifle, B-U-T a total of 2 mags with only 5 rounds each isn't going to last long until you hear "click" and stop shooting to reload them. If you can't get oversize mags, get a sack full of the "regular" ones.
AND, as noted by another FREEPER after my post; Ensure you have slings on your long guns, so you will have at least one hand free when on the move. If you don't want to "mess up the looks" of your beautiful 375 H & H Magnum with swivels and sling, at least have some precut lengths of small size rope or strapping handy to use for an 'emergency' sling. You can always tie it around the stock and forearm (or barrel) and throw it over your shoulder. It doesn't have to be 'pretty', just a temporary jerry-rig that could save your life.
If there ever is a food stortage, won’t the guy with a hundred pounds of suet on him outlast the athlete with 6 percent body fat?
bfl
Indeed. They are setting themselves up to be slaves to thugs who will benefit from their labors.
Hope she and her little community enjoy their remaining time on the big rock candy mountain.
“He must be a democrat— he thinks his “targets “ won’t be prepared to shoot him first.”
No, he just believes he is more badass. He believes he is faster, tougher, and more equipped to win in a firefight.
Depending on the target, he is partially correct. He has an *extreme* killer instinct. He’s a martial arts expert and former cage fighter. I’ve seen him fight. It’s amazing. The speed an precision with which he attacks is mind-numbing. While guns are the great equalizer, his violent instincts are so sharp, an armed grandma would have a hard time contending. He knows that and would be likely to choose his targets carefully.
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