One Gallon – the Achilles' Heel of Electric Cars

Muny Dews Blog ^ | 2-20-12 | Muny Dews

[TexasRepublic]

Thanks!

[H.Akston]

What did I say that was “BS”? Be specific now. I want to hear it. Did you even read what I said?

[Flying Circus]

This: "Anyway, an electric motor is much more effiecient at putting that energy to the wheels where it is useful, rather then blowing it out the radiator as heat. If we had car engines as efficent as electric motors, our gas tanks would only need to hold maybe 5 gallons instead of 20. "

I believe what I posted quite thoroughly refutes that.

[H.Akston]

The 17 kwhz number being half of the 36 would explain why consumer reports only got 28 miles instead of 56 on a full charge. Since the electric motor is much more efficient at converting stored [electrical] energy to mechanical energy, it would be expected to go much further on a 36 KWh charge than a ICE car could go on a gallon of gas.

The “little” misleading part of this article, as I said, is that it’s implying that a gallon of gas in an average car should have the equal mileage potential as the same amount of electrically stored energy in an electric car’s battery. You don’t need as much stored electrical energy to go the distance that the same amount of stored chemical energy in gasoline can propel you.

[H.Akston]

What you posted was superfluous and out of the context of the article, and smugly assumed that I did not already know that.

[H.Akston]

What you posted was superfluous and out of the context of the article, and smugly assumed that I did not already know that.

[Flying Circus]

Did you actually read what I posted? I didn’t “smugly assume” anything, I responded to what you said that was flatly wrong and refuted it. What I do not assume is that people state something knowing the opposite to be true (AKA lying).

[Flying Circus]

I think I begin to understand where the fault in your thinking is. Talking about the mechanical efficiency of the electric motor is like talking about the efficiency of the drive shaft coming out of the transmission. To extol the efficiency of electric motor while complaining about the waste heat from the radiator of the ICE ignores where the electricity for the motor started from.

[H.Akston]

You’re getting warmer, but an electric motor is not quite as efficient as a drive shaft. The “BS” was inappropriate.

[H.Akston]

In the context of this article, we CAN ignore where the electricity came from to charge the battery. I was only addressing the article’s somewhat misleading implication that the electric car’s “tank” contains only a gallon of gas and that you could only expect 28 miles out of it.

We’re in total agreement about the overall efficiency of electric vs. gasoline car from a bigger picture.

[H.Akston]

"If you want an alternative power source which you could start TODAY to phase in, look to Natural Gas."

Right on. Like I said in post number 30. Didn't T-Boone want to do this as a bridge to...whatever?

In addition, I wonder, does anyone know of any promising research being done on a gasoline/diesel "fuel cell"? or NG fuel cell?, that would make them competitive with the "efficiency" of an ICE?

[Publius6961]

Bookmark

[GOYAKLA]

Is there any truth to the word I heard that if you tow with any electric car the warranty is then voided?
Thanks.

[nascarnation]

Hybrids avoid diesels?

Really?

[nascarnation]

Why mess with fuel cells?

Nat gas is half the cost of diesel today.

We just need to install the fueling infrastructure.

Fleets of route trucks that operate out of a home base are already doing that.

[ThomasMore]

Now THIS is a GREEN Car...

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

In cars they most certianly do.

[nascarnation]

In cars they most certianly do.

Not sure what that comment means, but let me introduce you to a concept called "diminishing returns"

Consider a base gasoline car that gets 30 mpg. Drive 12,000 miles a year and gas is 4 bucks a gallon.

Yearly gas cost - $1600

Now lets make it a Prius type hybrid and go to 50mpg.

Yearly cost now - $960 or a yearly savings of $640.

Since the hybrid costs roughly $4000 additional, we pay it back in 6 years.

Now lets swap in a diesel for the gas engine, keeping the hybrid and go to 70 mpg.

12,000 miles a year, diesel costs $4.50 a gallon.

Yearly cost - $771, yearly savings $829.

Of course the diesel engine system costs another $3000 so over gas so our cost premium is now 4000+3000 or $7000

7000 / 829 = 8.44. So now our payoff is getting perilously close to the useful life of the car.

So it's really not some big conspiracy that there aren't diesel / battery car hybrids, it's economics.

[H.Akston]

Let’s bring on Natural Gas cars by all means. It is dirt cheap. Everyone who has natural gas piped to their house already should be able to buy a compressor and fuel their car with it.

Aren’t you curious about fuel cells though? If one could be invented that was only 40% efficient in converting NG to electricity, that would beat gasoline, hybrids, CNG, diesel, etc. to death.