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Philadelphia Police Unmercifully Persecute Gun Owner For Just Obeying The Law
secondamendmentfreedom.blogspot.com ^ | 02-22-2012

Posted on 02/22/2012 8:19:38 AM PST by Sasparilla

Philadelphia anti gun rights Mayor Michael Nutter had better get the city’s checkbook ready as the result of the 18 month persecution of an innocent “Open Carry” gun owner. The ACLU and a local law firm have just filed a lawsuit against the City to protect a gun owner’s rights. The State of Pennsylvania issues concealed carry permits. Since it’s an open carry state, a person openly carrying a handgun in Philadelphia only needs a state issued carry permit.

Mark Fiorino was confronted and held by police unlawfully three times over a year and a half period, and was once threatened by Police to be summarily shot on the spot because he carried his handgun openly, and had the gall to complain about his treatment to the Police during an illegal stop. He was also acquitted of bogus criminal charges filed by the Police, as they maliciously prosecuted him in retribution after they “completed” their investigation.

He has that required Pennsylvania permit, and prefers to carry his handgun in an outside holster because it is more comfortable, gives easier access, and he believes it is a deterrent to crime. He was held by Philadelphia Police on July 31st, 2010 by Policemen because he was openly carrying. His gun was taken. He was patted down, was told that it was illegal to openly carry in Philadelphia, and was detained. It was the official erroneous Police Department policy that openly carrying firearms was illegal there, even with a concealed handgun permit. But, the D.A.s office previously informed police that open carry was legal with a permit. His personal effects and handgun was returned after 15 minute in custody. He filed a complaint and received a letter back in August, 2010 from Internal Affairs denying...

(Excerpt) Read more at secondamendmentfreedom.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: banglist; democrats; donttreadonme; donutwatch; fascistpolice; guncontrol; liberalfascism; nutter; policestate; rapeofliberty; shallnotbeinfringed; tyranny

1 posted on 02/22/2012 8:19:46 AM PST by Sasparilla
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To: Sasparilla

Land of the free - gone.


2 posted on 02/22/2012 8:23:19 AM PST by Logical me
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To: Sasparilla

This is what happens when we don’t use our Second Amendment for it’s intended purpose. To prevent, or put an end to, tyranny.


3 posted on 02/22/2012 8:26:25 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Sasparilla

Pennsylvania has a preemption clause for firearm laws.

That means no municipality (including Philadelphia) can enact their own firearm laws.....state law trumps all.

That has not stopped the openly hostile mayor (Nutter)from attempting to use the preemption as an excuse for Philadelphia’s out-of-control crime rate. The fact that liberalism has had uninterrupted control of the city for over 60 years is never mentioned.


4 posted on 02/22/2012 8:34:17 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: Sasparilla
"The ACLU and a local law firm have just filed a lawsuit against the City to protect a gun owner’s rights."

The ACLU? This must be a first for them.

5 posted on 02/22/2012 8:36:19 AM PST by nralife (www.fireholder.com)
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To: Sasparilla

Ignorance of the LAW is neither an excuse nor a Valid Defense in ANY STATE in the Union, The Entire bunch belongs in Prison For Life where they will hopefully get a New Daddy to teach them basic respect and manners for their fellow man.


6 posted on 02/22/2012 8:37:16 AM PST by eyeamok
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To: Sasparilla

Philly PD has a LONG history of doing what they want - law and rules be damned. Frank Rizzo is the archetype.

That having been said, open carry in the city of brothers on drugs is a very poor decision, tactically. That high quality sidearm you are carrying WILL bring unwanted attention from the bad guys. It is more valuable to them than anything you are likely to have in your wallet. They will NOT hesitate to shoot you without notice or provocation to get it. Unless you have someone watching your six, you are at serious risk.

I firmly believe it is better to leave ‘em guessing, or not get noticed in the first place. Do not delude your self that prowess at the range equates to superiority in a street gunfight. There are many ‘veterans’ of street wars prowling around who’ve been in multiple shooting fights who rely on sudden attack and lots of bullets. They don’t much care about marksmanship, center of mass or hitting the five ring. They just want to get a pill into you as fast as possible, anywhere, and take it from there. Once wounded, you are at an almost insurmountable disadvantage.

The fraction of a second that it takes to sweep back your jacket doesn’t make up for having made yourself a target already and giving the bad guys the initiative. His OODA loop is already at the “A” while you’re still Condition White. Even if your think you’re at at Yellow, you are still several seconds behind him.

Remember, he’s been in street shootouts before, have you? How does your ‘Condition Yellow’ stack up to his, especially if you’ve already tickled his interest by displaying your shootin’ iron?

Bottom line, I admire the principal but deplore the tactics.


7 posted on 02/22/2012 8:46:01 AM PST by SargeK
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To: Erik Latranyi

A very large cash reward would help them learn they are wrong.


8 posted on 02/22/2012 8:48:02 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: SargeK

Joe Biden spelling -

Principal should be principle. Doh!

Though, you should have seen my principal. Tall redhead, fond of tight sweaters. Much to admire there too..


9 posted on 02/22/2012 8:49:13 AM PST by SargeK
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To: Erik Latranyi
Nutter needs to be accused, tried, convicted, and executed for violating USC Title 18 Section 241 and 242 as well as Pennsylvania's preemption.

An example needs to be made. Failing that, this will be used as an example by other wanna-be tin pot dictators ignoring State and Federal preemption of their desires.

Actions have consequences. Enslaving, or at least attempting to enslave, your fellow Americans needs to carry a heavy price tag.

10 posted on 02/22/2012 9:00:06 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: SargeK

Your right, open carry in a place like Philadelphia is like a fighting the old British way, lining up to get shot by a guerilla style fighter.

It makes me wonder if the guy thinks that the gang banger is going first slap with his glove and challenge him to a duel.


11 posted on 02/22/2012 9:08:42 AM PST by Eva
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To: SargeK
I agree. If you are going about your business while open carrying it is easy to get targeted by the bad guys, just to get your gun. All they have to do is meet you at the door of a business and hold the door for you, then boom they sucker punch you and are on your weapon.

Open carry definitely has its place, but a city street is not a tactically smart move.

12 posted on 02/22/2012 9:09:43 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: riverrunner
"A very large cash reward would help them learn they are wrong."

Only if the judgment is against individuals. Otherwise, it is just taxpayer drone dollars... They will keep harassing and the citizens will keep paying.

13 posted on 02/22/2012 9:18:50 AM PST by Truth29
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To: riverrunner

No it won’t! The costs will be born by the taxpayer. This will not stop until police and politicians are held PERSONALLY accountable!


14 posted on 02/22/2012 9:26:02 AM PST by catman67
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To: Truth29
Since the ACLU is already involved, I'd suggest they really move the checkers on the board and sue the Police Union Retirement Fund rather than the taxpayers.

Hold these gangsters accountable from funds that really hurt when punished, like retirement funds.

15 posted on 02/22/2012 9:26:11 AM PST by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: Dead Corpse

well?... Start the war!! I’m behind you all the way! ;)


16 posted on 02/22/2012 9:50:17 AM PST by sit-rep
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To: SargeK; USNBandit; Eva

I agree with you SargeK; openly carrying scares the sheep. Interesting how the Philly PD are acting more like wolves and less like sheep dogs.

I recently learned from a friend in Texas that drug cartel/gang members will loiter near gun stores and ranges, marking the vehicles of customers.

Later, if they see the same vehicle at a mall or similar location, they break in and toss the vehicle hoping steal a left behind firearm.

The example I saw was a small dot on the right front tire, but any inconspicuous marking method/location could be utilized.

If your have a CCW permit, make sure you have a good hidden void to place your weapon if you must leave it in your vehicle (e.g. going to court). If you don’t need leave it in your vehicle, keep the discipline and carry. I’m stunned at the number of police friends of mine who won’t carry while off duty because of the inconvenience.


17 posted on 02/22/2012 10:00:05 AM PST by Toadman (To piss off a conservative, tell a lie. To piss off a liberal, tell the truth.)
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To: Sasparilla

Amazing our government Nazi SS officers seem immune from civil rights violations. How come ignorance of the law is an excuse for them and not for us?

Given the millions of pages of laws on the books it is impossible for JBTs, lawyers, judges and even the pitiful USSC to know every law so IMO ignorance of the law should be the first excuse any citizen offers and they should be given a free pass until the JBTs are held to a higher standard. /sarcasm


18 posted on 02/22/2012 10:02:16 AM PST by Wurlitzer (Welcome to the new USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika))
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To: Toadman

The moral of the story, don’t drive your usual vehicle to the gun store.

The police where I live are useless, they are totally reactive, not pro-active. They don’t do anything to protect or prevent.

We recently had a car parked on our road that was full of bullet holes. My daughter saw it being dropped off about 3AM in the morning. It was reported early, the next morning by both my husband and a neighbor. The response from the police was that they weren’t going to do anything because it was a private road.

Four days later, after one of the neighbors opened the door of the car and found a telephone number of the owner, the car was removed to Bellingham, where the police identified it as the get-away car in a murder and drug deal gone bad. It was a real shoot-out.


19 posted on 02/22/2012 10:08:36 AM PST by Eva
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20 posted on 02/22/2012 10:31:57 AM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: sit-rep
You are in Michigan. I'm in Minnesota. You are closer to Pennsylvania than I am.

"Think Global. Act Local." ;-)

21 posted on 02/22/2012 11:15:38 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Toadman

That small “dot” you saw was most likely where the tire manufacture marked the lightest spot of the tire, so the installer could line it up with the valve stem when mounting. Look at most tires and you will find a small dot (blue, red, white, or yellow) next to the valve stem. Sometime it will be on the undercarriage side of the tire. Don’t take my word for it, ask an installer.


22 posted on 02/22/2012 12:30:30 PM PST by FreetheSouth! ("Those Rebel bastards couldn't hit an elephant at this dis..." Last words of Union General Sedgewick)
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To: Sasparilla

>Since it’s an open carry state, a person openly carrying a handgun in Philadelphia only needs a state issued carry permit.

Factually/definitionally incorrect; to be Open Carry a state does not (and cannot) require a ‘permit’ or ‘license’ for openly carrying a weapon.


23 posted on 02/22/2012 12:53:03 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: catman67

They can be prosecuted under:

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 13 - CIVIL RIGHTS

§ 241. Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any inhabitant of any State, Territory, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured -

They shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results, they shall be subject to imprisonment for any term of years or for life.

§ 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any inhabitant of any State, Territory, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such inhabitant being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results shall be subject to imprisonment for any term of years or for life.


24 posted on 02/22/2012 1:41:05 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Toadman
I recently learned from a friend in Texas that drug cartel/gang members will loiter near gun stores and ranges, marking the vehicles of customers.

Wouldn't it be easier to enter the Make, model, color and tag number in a database? Don't hoods have laptops? ;)

25 posted on 02/22/2012 4:27:22 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Sasparilla

Good for the ACLU!

Hope they bankrupt Philly.


26 posted on 02/22/2012 4:48:18 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: catman67

Screw the taxpayers if the majority are electing these clowns.


27 posted on 02/22/2012 4:50:23 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: SargeK

Principal should be principle. Doh
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Sister Mary Gertrude made it a point to point out the proper way to determine was “Principal was your Pal”.
“They” used to have all sorts of little goodies to help learn - in addition to the inevitable ruler - like HOMES for the Great Lakes.....

In that era the term ‘teachers aid’ referred to a ruler, hand, fist and on occasion, the crucifix around her neck - not a parent in the classroom.


28 posted on 02/22/2012 5:13:39 PM PST by xrmusn ((6/98) EGOIST - A person of low taste, more interested in himself than me. A. Bierce)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Good to know. Thank you.


29 posted on 02/23/2012 7:37:42 AM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: OneWingedShark

“Open Carry” doesn’t apply in Philly, legally.

There is a PA state criminal statue that specifically prohibits carrying a firearm (read sidearm) on the streets of a city of the first class. There is only one city of the first class in Pennsylvania and that is Phildalphia. This is a state law, not a Philly ordinance.

An individual is exempt of they are licensed to carry firearms, i.e. a CCW permit holder.

PA Crimes Code section 6108


30 posted on 02/23/2012 8:52:18 AM PST by SargeK
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To: SargeK
There is a PA state criminal statue that specifically prohibits carrying a firearm (read sidearm) on the streets of a city of the first class. There is only one city of the first class in Pennsylvania and that is Phildalphia. This is a state law, not a Philly ordinance.

Sounds like it violates the PA Constitution:

PA Constitution, Art 1

Section 21 . Right to Bear Arms
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

Section 25.
To guard against the transgressions of the high powers which we have delegated, we declare that everything in this article is excepted out of the general powers of government and shall forever remain inviolate.


31 posted on 02/23/2012 10:11:24 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

Most gun laws do.

That’s why we need to be very careful of who we elect to office, and who then appoint the black robed wunderkinds.

And my typing is getting to be atrocious. Phildalphia = Philadelphia. Need LESS coffee...


32 posted on 02/23/2012 11:04:22 AM PST by SargeK
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To: OneWingedShark

The trouble with Constitutional test cases is that almost no one has the resources and the guts to press them for this particular right. Cases get certiorari because of a suit that works up through the system or as a result of criminal case appeals.

The DC v. Heller case was originally brought by a Cato lawyer who financed it himself. The NRA was a Johnny-come-lately ‘cause they thought it would lose. (One of the two reasons I gave up my 35 years long membership). GOA and 2nd Amendment Foundation are now more responsive lobbies.


33 posted on 02/23/2012 11:21:57 AM PST by SargeK
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To: riverrunner
A very large cash reward would help them learn they are wrong.

only if they actually pay it.

34 posted on 02/23/2012 11:29:31 AM PST by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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To: FreetheSouth!
That small “dot” you saw was most likely where the tire manufacture marked the lightest spot of the tire, so the installer could line it up with the valve stem when mounting.

Nope. This dot was not aligned with the Schrader valve in the photo. Additionally the document mentioned that the tire is not the only place marked.

This is a comment from a Gun Site instructor: "I don’t know how widespread this is becoming, but the info regarding the NSCA Nationals in San Antonio is correct, as all of us who compete in sporting clays know. Competitors there were having their vehicles marked with a small adhesive dot on the rear license plate or rear bumper, then followed for miles and having their vehicles quickly and efficiently broken in to when parked for lunch..."

The email I received had a pdf attached. I'm not very proficient with HTML, so I googled "Gun Lovers Public Service Announcement" and found a link irt to the same PSA (if you're interested, and it has a link to the photo I saw):

http://forum.bearhawkgroups.com/viewtopic.php?t=6191&sid=be171fea3c5e540b6c84883066bf9407

35 posted on 02/23/2012 11:48:24 AM PST by Toadman (To piss off a conservative, tell a lie. To piss off a liberal, tell the truth.)
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To: All

If the adhesive dot story is true, perhaps some law-abiding citizen could hide in the bushes and wait for the perps, then peacefully explain to them why a life of crime often ends in misery....


36 posted on 02/23/2012 11:50:51 AM PST by Maverick68
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To: FreetheSouth!
Mea Culpa

You know just after I posted my response, I decided to "Snope" the subject (which I normally do on most sensational emails I receive).

So please excuse me whilst I open my mouth and insert foot!

http://www.snopes.com/crime/intent/gunshop.asp

37 posted on 02/23/2012 11:53:21 AM PST by Toadman (To piss off a conservative, tell a lie. To piss off a liberal, tell the truth.)
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