Skip to comments.Once Again I will Posit Adoption for Barack Obama.
Posted on 03/01/2012 1:50:50 PM PST by DiogenesLamp
I just finished Watching Sheriff Arpaio's press conference. The Sheriff's posse has concluded that the document was created on a computer and is therefore a forgery.
I will once again point out that if Obama was adopted, he would get a replacement birth certificate that will be designed to look like an original 1961 birth certificate, but it will in fact have been created by the Department of Health in the State of Hawaii at the Direction of an Hawaiian State Judge.
"The Obama was Adopted" theory addresses the "forgery" issue head on, and precludes it from being a crime. In my opinion, this is the simplest explanation for the fact that Obama's document looks cobbled together, and that Hawaii is tacitly confirming it as legitimate.
I will further add, (for those who have not already been so informed) that *I* was adopted, and *I* have a birth certificate which was created six years after I was born, and is in fact a replacement birth certificate that lists my new last name, new parent's names, etc.
This theory ties up a lot of the loose ends neatly (not all of them) and it doesn't involve believing that the Hawaiian government is involved in a criminal "conspiracy." I urge people to consider this idea before jumping to the conclusion that everyone involved with producing this document has committed a criminal act.
You are dead wrong. Minor children cannot renounce their birthright under US law.
Soetoro's school record is proof of nothing in that regard.
Parents can and do change their childs citizenship all the time.
Mebbe so. But, so what?
The parents cannot renounce their minor child's birthright to US citizenship.
As your very own assertion confirms.
And Citizen AT birth is not the only require of being a natural born Citizen.
A child whose parents did give up their citizenship do have a right to ‘reclaim’ their citizenship. But they must actually reclaim it. And the process is one of naturalization. Thus, they are naturalized and no longer ‘natural born’.
This is Obama’s likely problem. If he did properly reclaim his citizenship he citizenship is via naturalization.
Obots always flip out on Indonesia. And have since the beginning.
Its fun to watch.
Better go study your immigration law and not just quote the party line.
The issue has absolutely nothing to do with immigration law. It's nationality and citizenship law that governs the situation under discussion.
And, for the record, I was a student in International Law at the time in question.
If he and his enablers can get away with fraud of this magnitude, what makes you think that your puny vote or any time on a hypothetical "clock" will matter in the least to your new overlords?
It only IS for as long as we allow it to continue without resisting. Every single person I've met who was ignorant on this subject and whom I've ever had the opportunity to explain this issue to, in some depth, has had a "holy cr@p!" moment when their eyes were opened to the insane bs that is being allowed to happen at the very highest levels of our government, our supposed (erstwhile, in my opinion) servants and stewards.
The major issue I have with your adoption theory is this: If the state government issued a re-created edition of a birth certificate for adoption purposes and prior records were sealed by court order, why would the WH put up a computer-generated image instead of a simple scanned copy of an abstract that Hawaii created and printed on security paper which ostensibly Barry's attorney went to that state to retrieve two hard copies of?
If Barry and his lawyer showed up in a friendly Hawaii judge’s chambers in 2008 and said “I just remembered, my mom said I was born at Kapiolani,” the judge could have the records changed and it would be perfectly “legal.”
Be that as it may, we have the State Department documents indicating l'il Soebarkah was no longer American. This process usually involves an interview of the child by a State Department official. So, it may have been wee Soebarkah himself who denounced his citizenship.
A minor child cannot renounce his birthright U.S. citizenship. Nor can a parent renounce it for him.
At the same time, the minor can be considered a citizen or a national of another country (e.g., Indonesia). But he does not lose his claim on U.S. citizenship upon reaching his majority.
So, it is quite conceivable that State Department documents might identify him as an Indonesian national -- but it does not change the fact of his birthright claim upon reaching his majority.
Note: A person making such a birthright claim is NOT considered a "naturalized citizen". They are a U.S. citizen from birth.
I’m somewhat confused. If what you say is true, then why would the Obama team release an adopted birth certificate, since the only way to prove NBC status would be with an original? Did they think it would deflect just enough attention, or that it would distract truth-seekers for another year?
You can repeat it but it doesn't make it true. which it ain't. There's a document from the State Department posted on this thread proving this.
the fact of his birthright claim
His claim is more statutory than "birthright," assuming his biological and legal father is the British subject he says it is.
Have you ever seen any photos of her pregnant?
No, but there are plenty floating around from seconds before she got pregnant. Miss Stanley was a real Georgetown law student.
I think she was sent to an unwed mothers home in Vancouver. She intended to give up the baby. Then changed her mind and kept him. Explains how she showed up in Seattle with a newborn that she didn’t know how to diaper.
People will go to extremes for the sake of appearance.
(Oops, left off my response)
All by itself, it wouldn’t indicate much. But considering the other factors, it is highly suspicious.
But to say there's "evidence" is tricky. That can mean anything from vague indications that your theory is not wholly impossible or implausible to hard factual documentation. So far, it's more the former than the latter.
As far as I know, there are no pictures of my mother when she was pregnant, and she had 5 of us. I have no pictures of my wife when SHE was pregnant. My family has never been much for photography. I just don’t see it as being very indicative of anything.
I don’t really think the fact that there are no photos of a pregnant Stanley Anne is a big deal. There may have been one or more and they got lost, or there many never have been any for one reason or another.
HOWEVER.......this was in the 60’s. They were not a poor family. There are plenty of photos of Stanley Anne as a child, with her parents and photos of her parents when they were young. Stanley was an only child. Barry was their first grandchild(supposedly) and Stanley Anne’s first child(supposedly) yet not a single photo of her or the grandparents with new born Barry. NONE! The first photo of (supposedly) baby Barry is one where he is several months old and he is the only one in the photo.
You don’t find this interesting?
IMHO this thread is all about muddying the waters and distraction and the OP getting his jollies doing so.
If the child was the progeny of grandpa and a hooker, and he wanted to adopt the child, what better way than to have your daughter appear in Hawaii with a new grandchild who is then left with the grandparents to raise? A granddaughter who had a meaningless convenience marriage (to a man that was already married ) to give the child a legal father ???
This theory violates the premise of Occam’s Razor in my opinion.
No, it doesn’t and ucansee2’s theory makes a lot more sense than the one fed to us by Barry in his book ‘Dreams’.
Why would Stanley Anne give up her first born child? Why did Gramps take Barry to black bars with porno on the walls? Why was Frank Marshall Davis so close to Barry? Why did Gramps take Barry around FMD who was a Communist and a sexual deviant. He takes porn and deviancy to a whole new level and this was Barry’s mentor? If you haven’t read Sex rebel I suggest you do. You can download it here:
Interesting poem by little Barry:
Sitting in his seat, a seat broad and broken
In, sprinkled with ashes,
Pop switches channels, takes another
Shot of Seagrams, neat, and asks
What to do with me, a green young man
Who fails to consider the
Flim and flam of the world, since
Things have been easy for me;
I stare hard at his face, a stare
That deflects off his brow;
I’m sure he’s unaware of his
Dark, watery eyes, that
Glance in different directions,
And his slow, unwelcome twitches,
Fail to pass.
I listen, nod,
Listen, open, till I cling to his pale,
Beige T-shirt, yelling,
Yelling in his ears, that hang
With heavy lobes, but he’s still telling
His joke, so I ask why
He’s so unhappy, to which he replies . . .
But I don’t care anymore, cause
He took too damn long, and from
Under my seat, I pull out the
Mirror I’ve been saving; I’m laughing,
Laughing loud, the blood rushing from his face
To mine, as he grows small,
A spot in my brain, something
That may be squeezed out, like a
Watermelon seed between
Pop takes another shot, neat,
Points out the same amber
Stain on his shorts that I’ve got on mine and
Makes me smell his smell, coming
From me; he switches channels, recites an old poem
He wrote before his mother died,
Stands, shouts, and asks
For a hug, as I shink, my
Arms barely reaching around
His thick, oily neck, and his broad back; ‘cause
I see my face, framed within
Pop’s black-framed glasses
And know he’s laughing too.
— Barack Obama
Saying it doesn’t make it so.
Canada, Kenya, doesn’t matter which. IF you believe his father was Senior then he is not a natural born citizen. Not born in this country, father not a citizen, not eligible for the office, end of story.
Which brings up to me, the question, why would Stanley Ann go to all the trouble to marry some foreign guy, who was already married, and give ‘Barry’ a FAMILY, a FATHER, and then abandon little Barry to her parents?
Thanks for the poem. Now I feel like I have been licking the floor of a porno theater.
I think Hawaii is complicit in this cover-up (and have been for some time)
I agree! It started in Hawaii back in 2008. Probably the night the lights when out while Barry was there vacationing, 12/2008, while at the same time, Rahm disappeared in Kenya for 2 weeks to go on a ‘safari’. Safari my a$$......The “fix” was done, the only question left was if the fix was done in haste and would be good enough to avoid detection.
In any case, the two newspaper advertisements indicate that those names are what were being used in 1961 anyway.
What if someone found actual newspapers from that date, had them authenticated, maintained a chain of command, and little barry’s name was missing?
According to Barry, in “Dreams” gramps sure did like to hang out at black bars with porn on the walls and he took little Barry there with him. How many white grandfathers in the 60’s and 70’s hung out in black bars with walls covered with porn?
Here is my theory. The PDF file we see has that green anti-copy crosshatch on it, while the "physical copy" does not. The Green crosshatch was obviously added to the document last. (IMO)
I think the original PDF file was sent to the White House in an Email from DOH Hawaii, (or perhaps to Obama's Lawyer) and rather than go to the trouble of scanning the physical document (Which may be completely under the Control of Obama or His Lawyer to the point where he won't even let his staff have it) and then adding the green crosshatch, the dumbasses on his staff simply used the emailed copy, not knowing that it contained the evidence of it's creation within it.
I also don't think the staff at DOH Hawaii knew enough about computer technology to be aware that the file would contain the information used to construct it. I think people who tend to work in Government (in fields other than Computer Technology) are relatively ignorant and naive about computer technology. A member of an IT staff would have known about this problem.
As a result of ignorance on the part of DOH Hawaii bureaucrats, and as a result of ignorance on the part of Obama's White House staff, we were allowed to discover information that they didn't know was *IN* the PDF File. By the time they had been made aware of it, it was too late to do anything about it. (The Internet is Forever baby!) The only thing they could do was to pretend they hadn't done something stupid.
Does this explanation seem reasonable?
This may very well be true. I do not know what are the limits of modification which a Judge can Order, but I would not be surprised to discover a Judge can order every single bit of it be changed to whatever he says. Who is going to tell a Judge "No." ?
It is a very confusing issue. We are all somewhat confused. I am just trying to work out what makes the most sense to me.
If what you say is true, then why would the Obama team release an adopted birth certificate, since the only way to prove NBC status would be with an original?
I don't believe that Obama cares whether or not he is NBC, I think he only cares that the public thinks he is. I think he will release anything which he believes will allay public suspicion.
Did they think it would deflect just enough attention, or that it would distract truth-seekers for another year?
Yes. I think he has an original document of some sort that was created in 1961, but it may not say what he needs it to say. I have long suspected that his original birth document is a filed form of "at home birth" which was filled out by his Grandmother. (Meaning he could have been born anywhere.)
I find this theory very credible. I have long advocated a slightly different version of it. I thought Stanley Ann was sent to live with Aunt Eleanor Birkebeile (Known to be living in Canada in 1959, and later in Blaine Washington) or her Uncle Ralph Dunham, known to be living in North West Washington State, but a home for unwed mothers in Vancouver is also a good possibility.
I recall reading somewhere that it was indeed Stanley Ann's intention of giving him up, and I think I saw something about the Salvation Army as well. Does anyone else remember where the source of this information is? I'm thinking it may have been in Barack Sr's Immigration files.
I agree that it is very credible that Stanley Ann was in Northwest Washington/Canada during his birth. It makes more sense than any other explanation of which I am aware.
Not so much as you might think. I have mentioned in the past that there are articles which say her co-workers didn't even know she had a grandson. Most women are proud to tell everyone about their grandchildren. Not mentioning it to her co-workers implies she was ashamed of him. I have seen better articles which support this point, but at the moment this is the only one I can find. It says:
Berry said she didn't realize Obama was Dunham's grandson until early this year while watching TV.
``She was pretty conservative from my point of view so back then it would have been surprising'' to know she had a black grandson, Berry said. ``I would have thought: `I wonder what she thinks about that?'''
I would suggest if Madelyn Dunham was so ashamed of her black grandson as to not tell her coworkers about him, she would not likely have been interested in taking any pictures of a pregnant Stanley Ann, and of Course Stanley Ann couldn't have taken any herself.
It is reported that he stayed in an apartment in the same building as the Dunhams and that they paid for that and his travel while he was there.
“It is reported”... the key words,by whom? Links? Credidble sources? I’m not sure he was ever there in 1971.
I’m not ready to go so far as to say that Hawaiian officials are corrupt
LOL! Oh I am! I would bet on it.
Still too young to know that I needed a race, as he describes himself in Dreams, Obama was sent back from Indonesia in 1969 or 70. Gramps Stanley Dunham began a bizarre project which involved introducing Obama to Frank Marshall Davis and making secret visits to Chinatowns disreputable Smith Street bars located one block away from Okas Corner Liquor Store. Obama describes the excitement of these visits in Dreams, page 77-78:
Dont tell your grandmother, he would say with a wink, and wed walk past hard-faced, soft-bodied streetwalkers into a small, dark bar with a jukebox and a couple of pool tables. Nobody seemed to mind that Gramps was the only white man in the place, or that I was the only eleven-or twelve year old. Some of the men leaning across the bar would wave at us, and the bartender, a big, light skinned woman with bare, fleshy arms, would bring a Scotch for Gramps and a Coke for me. If nobody else was playing at the tables, Gramps would spot me a few balls and teach me the game, but usually I would sit at the bar, my legs dangling from the high stool, blowing bubbles into my drink and looking at the pornographic art on the walls the phosphorescent women on animal skins, the Disney characters in compromising positions. If he was around, a man named Rodney with a wide-brimmed hat would stop by to say hello.
Frank Marshall Davis too, described adventures on Smith Street at The Green Goose, a bar operated by one of my friends. Group sex and voyeurism at the Green Goose fill two pages in his pseudonymous porno book, Sex Rebel: Black (Memoirs of a Gash Gourmet), published just before Obama returned from Indonesia.
Have you read the entire book? That man a role model? I wouldn’t have let my kids within 20 miles of him. His books is one of the most degenerate, disgusting things I’ve ever read. He was sick.
That passage from Dreams, along with other things here and there, are what lead me to my theory on who and what O really is.
I don't regard it as a "conspiracy theory" I regard it as a series of events which someone took advantage of, after the fact. The explanation which I am offering seems to fit the available information better than any other idea of which I can conceive.
But to say there's "evidence" is tricky. That can mean anything from vague indications that your theory is not wholly impossible or implausible to hard factual documentation. So far, it's more the former than the latter.
I am pressed for time at the moment, but I seem to recall that there are about 7 pieces of evidence that indicate Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. Just a quick run down from my memory (i'll see if I can find the links later.)
1. Indonesian Law makes it automatic if under age of 5.
2. School records in Indonesia say his last name is Soetoro.
3. His Sister Maya stated that her father had Adopted him. (more or less.)
4. The Dunham/Soetoro Divorce Records claim that he had an 18 year old child who is dependent upon him for Schooling.
5. Stanley Ann Dunham's Passport paperwork for 1968 indicates that her son's name is "Barry SoeBarkah" which one blogger claims means "Son of Soetoro" in Indonesian.
6. When Lolo was being deported, they tried to get a stay based on his having a Wife and Son in America.
7. I forget the last one, or perhaps misremembered that there was more.
In any case, the first 6 make a pretty good circumstantial case that Barack was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. Enough that I think the burden of proof shifts somewhat to the other side. (Those who argue that he WAS NOT Adopted.)
Wasn’t she supposed to be pregnant when she got married? Where is that picture?
Burned or never existed? Maybe it’s the same place the photos of Stanley and her newborn first born are. Or with the photos of Senior and Stanley with their supposed new baby. Nope, those don’t exist either. What about photos of the Dunhams with their new and first grandchild. Nope, those don’t exit either. What about Stanley Anne with her new baby? Nope those don’t exist either.
Still wondering why there isn’t a single photo of Barry with a girl in high school, college or after college until big MO came along. I have plenty of photos of my parents with other people they dated, my wife has the same of hers. My wife and I both have photos from back in the day before we met. Prom pics, date pics, pics at other events with dates. Barry? Only photos with boys, feminine looking boys.
mojitojoe:”, the only question left was if the fix was done in haste and would be good enough to avoid detection.”
If the LFBC PDF is any indication, then perhaps we have a chance to uncover the fraud.
Although Obama spent a loooooooong time in Hawaii this past December and he had plenty of time to work with the HDOH to get it right. Or at least right enough...
It’s an election year. The usurpers want 4 more years to vacation on our dime. The trolls are out in force. They need to begin now to establish themselves to try to avoid detection when they go into full Obot mode. There are LOTS of trolls on FR right now and many of them are very good at what they do. Thankfully, some of them are getting zotted. I wish FR had a flag posts button. It would help the mods immensely. When someone begins to get lots of posts flagged, then they can take a look.
What about wedding pictures? Surely someone must have taken photos of the wedding.
You dont find this interesting?
No, because I think Madelyn Dunham was utterly ashamed of the fact that she had a Black Grandchild. Madelyn Dunham was from Kansas, and from my Reading of Frank Marshall Davis' book "livin' the blues" they were pretty prejudice in Kansas during the 1920s, and I can only assume it continued during the time Madelyn Dunham was growing up. Apart from that, the Family lived in Oklahoma and Texas before moving to Washington. I think most of Madelyn Duham's life she was exposed to a culture that was very prejudiced against blacks, and where miscegenation was a Felony Crime. (Not Kansas, but it was in Oklahoma and Texas. See Map at link.)
I think it took her a long time to come to terms with the fact that her Grandson was black. That it caused immediate strife in the Dunham household is evident by the fact that Stanley Ann left and didn't come back until a year after Barry was born. Also, see my previous message with the link that shows Madelyn Dunham's coworkers didn't even know she had a grandson until they found out about it on television. This is NOT the behavior of a proud grandmother.
I think Madelyn Dunham was VERY ashamed of Barry, and so therefore there are no fawning pictures of him until later, and the one of him on the tricycle was probably taken by Stanley Ann.
All those that were commie plants. Black bars were good cover for spies. Easy to spot government agents that way.
I’ll come back to this one later.
mojitojoe:”What if someone found actual newspapers from that date, had them authenticated, maintained a chain of command, and little barrys name was missing?”
I remember some info a long time back (a year or so?) that was mentioned on FR but I don’t know anything of its veracity. I thought someone had investigated the microfiche of these newspaper birth notices and found them to be unique from those prior to August and successive to August. Wish I could remember who made this claim and in what thread it was mentioned. The obvious suspicion was that these microfiche were “manufactured”.
I'd rather look at Helen Thomas nude.