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To: DiogenesLamp
You could be right about the passport application reflecting somebody's understanding that young Obama had been officially or unofficially adopted or given an Indonesian passport and citizenship. I'm not 100% convinced, but it's not as unlikely as I had thought at first.

But would he have renounced US citizenship? I know the conventional wisdom for some people is that he hates America, his mother hated America, his grandfather hated America, etc. But consider: people were getting pulled off the streets and killed in Indonesia in the 1960s (or killed right on the street). It does seem perverse that a mother would let or encourage her son to renounce US citizenship at such a time.

True, his mother did essentially turn him over to her parents, but that's not so bad in comparison with putting him at the mercy of events in an unstable dictatorship. If on the other hand, there was no official renunciation of US citizenship, but only an informal assumption of parental responsibilities by Lolo or some Indonesian adoption that didn't get back to the US authorities, why would Barack's name have been entered and crossed off?

PS: You seem saner, politer, and more responsible than some of the other theorists. Sad to see you buying into the "Obama's mom naked" story. The odds are pretty slim of private photos like that surviving and getting hawked on the Internet, as opposed to the commercial porn of the day, and so far, it hasn't been seriously suggested that Stanley Ann was in that business.

So did FMD take pictures and sell them to the industry on his own? That's a stretch. Where there already is an industry devoted to that sort of thing, the odds that some random woman's pictures are going to end up circulated like that aren't that great. Again, it's not impossible, but it looks like people let their imagination run away with themselves.

397 posted on 03/06/2012 4:44:48 PM PST by x
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To: x
You could be right about the passport application reflecting somebody's understanding that young Obama had been officially or unofficially adopted or given an Indonesian passport and citizenship. I'm not 100% convinced, but it's not as unlikely as I had thought at first.

But would he have renounced US citizenship? I know the conventional wisdom for some people is that he hates America, his mother hated America, his grandfather hated America, etc. But consider: people were getting pulled off the streets and killed in Indonesia in the 1960s (or killed right on the street). It does seem perverse that a mother would let or encourage her son to renounce US citizenship at such a time.

I don't think Obama renounced his US Citizenship. I don't think a minor can do such a thing (though Sven Magnussen disagrees) and I don't think Obama saw any need to do so when he was old enough to do so. I think he simply hung on to his Indonesian passport, and used it when he saw an advantage in doing so. (Traveling to Pakistan, and perhaps getting aid as a foreign student.)

True, his mother did essentially turn him over to her parents, but that's not so bad in comparison with putting him at the mercy of events in an unstable dictatorship. If on the other hand, there was no official renunciation of US citizenship, but only an informal assumption of parental responsibilities by Lolo or some Indonesian adoption that didn't get back to the US authorities, why would Barack's name have been entered and crossed off?

My guess is that at the time, his mother thought that she would be with Lolo for the rest of her life. She didn't foresee a divorce in her future. (Who does?)

PS: You seem saner, politer, and more responsible than some of the other theorists. Sad to see you buying into the "Obama's mom naked" story. The odds are pretty slim of private photos like that surviving and getting hawked on the Internet, as opposed to the commercial porn of the day, and so far, it hasn't been seriously suggested that Stanley Ann was in that business.

The odds are astronomical. It is just freakin amazing that such things could have surfaced as they did. Have you read Jack Cashill's book "Deconstructing Obama"? ( I have an autographed copy.) In his book he claimed that Frank Davis got into photography in the 1930s, and became quite an avid photographer. Jack Cashill's book mentioned he got this information from Frank Marshall Davis' book "Livin' the Blues", so I bought a used copy of that. In Frank Davis' book he does indeed mention that most of his photography is photographs of naked women. Frank Davis also mentions how easy it is to get them to pose naked. He claims to have photographed hundreds of naked women. (Bear in mind this is in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, where there was a lot more stigma regarding this sort of behavior.)

So did FMD take pictures and sell them to the industry on his own? That's a stretch.

It is my understanding that the person who made people aware of these photographs is a retired Australian College Professor named John Ray. (I have exchanged emails with him.) The original article which he used to release them was posted at "Astute Bloggers" (a VERY good website. He (reliapundit) comes up with stuff you won't find anywhere else, or if so, much later AFTER he posted it.)

Reading through the various links of it and such, I recall seeing speculation that these photographs were part of Franks private collection, which he eventually swapped with other collectors back in the 1980s through email and such. I don't know. Speculation is anybody's guess.

Where there already is an industry devoted to that sort of thing, the odds that some random woman's pictures are going to end up circulated like that aren't that great. Again, it's not impossible, but it looks like people let their imagination run away with themselves.

Yes, people are trying to wrap their minds around any theory which explains the strange circumstances surrounding this guy. Some of them get pretty "out there" but bear in mind, Obama's story is pretty "out there" anyways. When you've already entered the "twilight zone" a lot of weird ideas start to look credible.

398 posted on 03/07/2012 6:35:42 AM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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