Skip to comments.U.S. Agrees To Drug Legalization Talks
Posted on 03/03/2012 6:19:58 AM PST by AtlasStalled
The United States may be ready to capitulate in the drug wars.
This week Vice President Joe Biden heads south of the border to meet with Mexican President Felipe Calderon and a number of presidents from Central American countries including Costa Rica and Guatemala who "have said in recent weeks they'd like to open up the discussion of legalizing drugs" as reported by Martha Mendoza for The Associated Press.
Last week at a conference on transnational crime a security official for the Organization of American States warned that the drug cartels "are posing a growing threat to democracy in Latin America" as reported by BBC News: "cartels are influencing elections by threatening politicians and even running their own candidates, OAS Secretary for Multidimensional Security Adam Blackwell said."
Allegations of ties between Mexican politicians and narco traffickers have become routine, and U.S. officials say "that even the most dedicated public servants can't avoid the taint of drug cartels in some areas of the country where mobsters are the de facto overlords" as reported by Tim Johnson for McClatchy Newspapers.
Meanwhile, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton finally is recognizing "intelligence reports that Latin American drug cartels are closely linked with Hezbollah and Iran" as reported by Jim Kouri for The Examiner.
Maybe the U.S. has to prepare for losing the drug wars in order to save democracy.
(Excerpt) Read more at bitterqueen.typepad.com ...
So what would legalization look like? What would they propose to legalize? Marijuana for sure. How about meth?, cocaine, heroin, prescription drugs?
Depressing to learn of but a truthful observation I’m afraid. You would think tptb would have learned this lesson with the Prohibition experience.
So-called recreational drugs for adults only.
Highly addictive drugs by prescription of a doctor only.
Rules against driving, operating machinery or any transportation system, guarding nuclear weapons while under the influence.
Legalization of drugs in America is the final nail in the coffin of her demise. Pray for America.
This won’t turn out well. Why is it that the liberal answer to every moral challenge is to give up?
... a liberal is afraid to fight ...
We’re trying to protect our kids and Obama is trying to emulate himself...”You can be President, too. Do coke!!”
Oh, once selling deathly/brain numbing/addictive products to our citizens is legal, the industry can be taxed and controlled by a new mafia- the US govt
all the violence will end, all the cartel guys will buy 3 piece suits, set up PACS and corporate offices and factories, and hire lobbyists, CPA’s and union labor. Maybe they even build their new corporate infrastructure using green techology.
think of the “jobs” and “revenue stream”
Remember the Godfgather movies where the Corleones talked about becoming legit? That all worked out well (sarc)
Lazy, stupid and cowardly American illegal drug users are too lazy, stupid and chicken to face reality, so they take illegal drugs to ignore reality for a few minutes. Here’s how you solve the illegal drug problem in this country.....illegal drug users quit being stupid, lazy and chicken and start working to improve their reality. Drugged people are easier to manipulate.....that’s why the Democrats love them.
Governments new cash cow and entreprenuerial business, DRUGS deemd illegal when not in control, now legal when in control. They will have a better chance of pushing thier agenda with a legally promoted drugged up youth in America
And do not expect ANYTHING wise or responsible from their agents in their Propaganda Machine, aka the Mainstream Newsmedia.
And do not expect ANYTHING wise or responsible from the millions of Americans who are stupid enough to support these people.
If their argument for the US government de facto endorsing this deadly debiltiating social vice is ostensibly to reduce violence and tax it, then it’s all or nothing or the pro-legal arguments don’t work
Just think- free needles and free addictive drugs to keep junkies present and future quiet and off the streets in the name of big brother compassion- another constitutional right under obamacare
Where is the authority for the US to ban drugs? Why did earlier Americans decide a Constitutional Amendment was necessary to ban alcohol, yet more recent Americans decided they can ban drugs? Do they say the authority is under the Commerce Clause? What isn’t, by their reckoning. I know the answer: nothing. /half rhetorically
Nonetheless that's never going to happen, hence the "War on Drugs(TM)", instituted under Richard Nixon. This is the single biggest issue I have with Republicans and there is little if anything to choose between demmy and pubby pols on the issue. The "war on drugs" leads to
It is that final item which some would use as a pretext to eviscerate the second amendment, which is the link pin of the entire bill of rights. Consider the following from the former head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection under the Bush administration no less:
The former head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection called Monday for the U.S. to reinstitute the ban on assault weapons and take other measures to rein in the war between Mexico and its drug cartels, saying the violence has the potential to bring down legitimate rule in that country.
Former CBP Commissioner Robert C. Bonner also called for the United States to more aggressively investigate U.S. gun sellers and tighten security along its side of the border, describing the situation as "critical" to the safety of people in both countries, whether they live near the border or not.
Mexico, for its part, needs to reduce official corruption and organize its forces along the lines the U.S. does, such as a specialized border patrol and a customs agency with a broader mandate than monitoring trade, Mr. Bonner said in an exchange of e-mails.
"Border security is especially important to breaking the power and influence of the Mexican-based trafficking organizations," Mr. Bonner said. "Despite vigorous efforts by both governments, huge volumes of illegal drugs still cross from Mexico..."
The problem here clearly is not guns and it is clearly a problem of economics. The drugs one of these idiots would use in a day under rational circumstances would cost a dollar; that would simply present no scope for crime or criminals. Under present circumstances that dollar's worth of drugs is costing the user $300 a day and since that guy is dealing with a 10% fence, he's having to commit $3000 worth of crime to buy that dollar's worth of drugs. In other words, a dollar's worth of chemicals has been converted into $3000 worth of crime, times the number of those idiots out there, times 365 days per year, all through the magic of stupid laws. No nation on Earth could afford that forever.
A rational set of drug laws would:
Do all of that, and the drug problem and 70% of all urban crime will vanish within two years. That would be an optimal solution; but you could simply legalize it all and still be vastly better off than we are now. 150 Years ago, there were no drug laws in America and there were no overwhelming drug problems. How bright do you really need to be to figure that one out?
You are exactly right. We’ve been going down the road to Hell for several years, but have taken a huge plunge thanks to Nov 2008 and this bunch in office.
Ummm, we already have those laws. They have been enacted in every state, and apply to all intoxicants, including alcoholic beverages.
What's missing is a prohibition against taxpayer-funded medical care for the consequences of abuse of intoxicants. And to be fair, I'd include alcohol and tobacco.
You want to quit? Sure, I'll help. But, I'm not paying for damage to your body that you did voluntarily.
Next up, legalization of prostitution, loan sharking and extortion.
Anything goes! The Drug Lords win!
Excellent observation, RR.
The Politicians in Washington and their Henchpersons already have the American people in virtual slavery as a bunch of hypnotized, mind-numbed zombies.
The excellent Kevin McCarthy movie The Invasion of the Body Snatchers was prophetic.
You can imagine these Politicians' eyes lighting up when they envision millions of these mind-numbed zombies even more irreversibly enslaved by addictive drugs! Millions of American voters as hoplessly addicted as the worst of Dr. Phil's!And the Federal Government and its Policians as their pushers and enablers! Getting unimaginably rich--and richer!
How many luxurious jets--how many luxurious offices--how many personal financial accounts bursting at the seams--will all this drug money by for the Washington Politicians and their Henchpersons!
The mind staggers at the thought!
Caligula! Nero! Tiberius! Livia! Poppeia! Messalina! Commudus! Their minds would explode with envy!
And the American people who condemned themselves and their children and grandchildren to slavery to these rabidly greedy Predators! What of them? History's scorn and ridicule! But they themselves will be too mind-numbed and too drugged-out to know--or care--what their stupidity, carelessness, recklessness, and self-indulgence have wrought!
You wondered what would happen when the counter-culture hippies of the '60s finally had their way and took over America? Here it is!
I’ve been thinking about that myself.
Here’s what I think...pot should be eased up on. Let people grow their own. But anyone attempting to sell pot(other than living plants or seeds) should go to jail. Any pot transported across state lines or national borders should be seized and all those involved given EXTRA long prison terms.
I am sick of america’s nonsense with prescription drugs. If I want to buy myself some pills for my back I don’t want the dam government trying to stop me. But if I am caught reselling my pills or using them in ways not meant to be used, then sure, throw the book at me. The current laws exist to protect pharaceutical companies and jack up their prices. Pure and simple.
Yes... How did we survive those first two hundred years without a drug war... :-|
My bet is we are going to legalize dope, and outlaw vitamins.
Just curious, why these drugs you get a life sentence while others which cause way more damage and crime (Nobody ever robbed a liquor store to get a LSD fix) should be legalized?
Next up will be Obama care requiring insurance companies to cover the cost of the recreational drugs. We’re Fluked again:(
LSD and PCP create psychotic states. My calling them Jeckyl/Hyde formulae isn’t really a misuse of language. PCP has been responsible for much of the crime in DC suburban Maryland over a long period of time.
It IS the complete text of the article, so “Why” is a good question.
Obama misses the days when he could snort a line of coke - look for powder residue on the desk in the oval office - his rendition of white stains....
Drugs are not the problem but one of the symptoms. The liberal rot that has eaten away the very roots of our society is the problem.
Not to worry,the drug war is not going away. It's a very effective tool to enslave the American people.
“Do all of that, and the drug problem and 70% of all urban crime will vanish within two years. That would be an optimal solution; but you could simply legalize it all and still be vastly better off than we are now. 150 Years ago, there were no drug laws in America and there were no overwhelming drug problems. How bright do you really need to be to figure that one out?”
Legalize drugs, and we will also create an entire new “drugunderclass” (I claim credit for the word) that will be, for all intents and purposes, unemployable wards of the state.
The reality is that many employers (most?) now test for drug use, and can [legally] refuse to hire those who are verified “users”.
In my field (railroading, now retired), drug testing was mandated by federal law and regulation. No drugs, on or OFF the job. Of course, with random testing, the testing procedures can detect use within the previous weeks. Hard to get around. I was actually “caught” once for opium usage — which was because on the day of the test, I had eaten a hard roll filled with poppy seeds. After a phone conversation with the company medical officer, I was permitted to work -after- submitting to an exam in which they checked me for “needle usage”. Made for an interesting day.
Again, if drugs are made legal, we should expect to see employers “push back” by INCREASING the amount of drug testing, so as to ensure that their employees are drug-free. And those who by personal weakness, aided and abetted by a government system that feeds their habits, will be relegated to the ranks of the permanently unemployed and unemployable. Employers will do this as a matter of self-protection; they will have no choice.
Of course, in keeping with “civil rights”, as a consequence of laws which “make drugs legal”, there will certainly come corresponding laws which ban “drug testing” as a condition of new or continued employment.
It’s only logical that if we “make drugs legal”, that we also “protect the rights” of drug users against evil employers and capitalists, eh?
Yep, which is why the left has been working so hard and so long to legitimize drug use. "Medical" marijuana was a huge victory for the left because it opened up the floodgates for legalization of other illicit drugs.
Of course, in keeping with civil rights, as a consequence of laws which make drugs legal, there will certainly come corresponding laws which ban drug testing as a condition of new or continued employment.
I was about ready to challenge you on your first paragraph but you stole my thunder with the next. Certainly that is what will happen. Can't discriminate against them anymore than you can discriminate against someone for using Lipitor. They're both legal.
Then you'll have 30 year old sluts testifying before Congress that other people should pay for their pot while they're in college.
I think those who postulate that the drug gangs will fold up their tents if drugs are legalized have the ones who have not looked at the lessons of Prohibition. The mob made more money on liquor after 1933 than before. The cartels will switch to other crime, or concentrate on selling to minors, or providing stronger or new varieties. Legalization will not be a magic bullet.
So you support the expansive Commerce Clause and the trampling of the Tenth Amendment? Two appeals court justices, both friends of Scalia, cited his opinion in Raich to uphold Obamacare:
Both Silberman and Sutton cited Scalias opinion in 2005 upholding strict federal regulation of marijuana in the case of Angel Raich, a Californian who used home-grown marijuana to relieve her pain. If Congress could regulate Angel Raich when she grew marijuana on her property for self-consumption, Sutton wrote, it is difficult to say Congress may not regulate the 50 million Americans who self-finance their medical care.
It's the only logical conclusion. Fifty years ago the notion that the government ought to pay for birth control for promiscuous college students would have been laughed at by everyone. Now people are outraged that people would question it. Same thing will happen with dope smokers.
Believe it or not, as much pot as is grown right here in the USA, the Mexican cartels still derive about 60% of their total revenues from Marijuana. This according to one of those PBS or Nova specials I saw about a year ago and cannot name.
That would put a dent in those operations.
The only other step we should take is to build an impenetrable barrier from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. Treat it like a border with a hostile military power and station troops along it...with instructions to shoot to kill.
But once legal, there will be ‘licenses’ to distribute and dispense and the Drug Lords will have a monopoly on the licenses. Of course they will lower prices once they bring the volume up and they can do this by processing product with some addictive additives. Next they get control of more hedge funds on Wall St. and do a multi-billion dollar IPO on their new smokes and then they pay off politicians to crush Phillip Morris with devastating restrictions. Phillip Morris will maybe want in on the new smokes action but the Drug Lords will merely behead them and dump the severed parts in the vicinity of OWS who will in turn cheer the decapitation of the evil tobacco magnates.
Oh what a wonderful world it will be to behold. Can’t wait!
Great...legalize hard drugs but require me to show ID to purchase allergy medicine. Yeah, that really makes sense. / sarcasm
Pot, for example, grows out of the ground. It needs some sunlight, water, and maybe a little fertilizer.
How could any "Drug Lord" make money selling it? The enormous profits are only due to the legal risks.
The cost of manufacture and delivery of most other drugs would likewise be very minimal compared to today's artificially inflated prices.
How does Phillip Morris make enormous money selling tobacco?
Don’t be naive. The Cartel Drug Lords are mafia that control politicians, banks, hotels, resorts, casinos. They are not going to be stopped by silly people that think that legalization will solve all problems, far from it.
Pot and other drugs will be regulated and only those licensed to distribute will be allowed to sell it. The Cartels will kill their way to securing the distribution rights just as they do now in Mexico and also in the USA.
They also control prostitution, murder for hire, loan sharking and extortion.
You are playing with fire if you think legalization will make them go away.
Legalization will reduce their risks, secure their profits and allow them to gain revenue streams from addicting more and more users.
Again don’t be naive.
Medical marijuana programs are not run by the cartels, so why would regulating marijuana like alcohol be any different?
Answer me this. Do you support the authority of states under the Tenth Amendment to conduct medical marijuana programs without fedgov interference, or do you support fedgov's use of the expansive Commerce Clause to shut them down?
Nonsense. If the level of corruption and violence associated with illegal drugs were reduced to that associated with alcohol or tobacco, the War on Some Drugs would be over.
Sales of cigarettes and alcohol don't jeopardize my rights or justify the swat teams now to be found in practically every community.
Medical marijuana is not generalized legal marijuana. When pot is legal there won’t be a need for medical prescriptions. So your remark is pointless and misguided.
Regulating alcohol entails licensing and distribution rights. Such operations are populated by organized crime families who support prominent politicians:
It will be different for marijuana and narcotics, the Columbian Cartels are terrorists, they will control all marijuana licenses and distribution. They control more than half of Mexico now and they will control large parts of the USA once the law lets them in. They will place prominent politicians on their payroll who on the surface will be like Romney and tell you whatever you want to hear but at core won’t care a twit about your silly conservatism. All they will care about is protecting their crime rackets and their distribution channels, legal or not.
Post #45 reveals why you are naive. You want to give the keys to the City away to the mob? Oh you don’t think that will happen? You are more than naive, you are aiding and abetting the Drug Lords because legalization leads to them securing their turf. And rest assured they will put their people in power over you.
Huh? Medical mj is a thriving business. CA is collecting the neighborhood of 1B in sales and $100M in tax revenues in CA alone. You want us to believe that the cartels wouldn't take advantage of this if they could? Your argument makes no sense.
You avoided my question on the Constitution. Let's try again.
Do you support the authority of states under the Tenth Amendment to conduct medical marijuana programs without fedgov interference, or do you support fedgov's use of the expansive Commerce Clause to shut them down?
There is not an unlimited market for illegal drugs. Even if legalization doubled the number of users, the price of drugs would plummet to a tenth or a hundredth of the present price. If the mob doesn't have the power to dominate my life today with their present resources then there is no way they are going to be able to dominate with a fifth or a tenth of the resources.
Just how many cities are dominated by tobacco or alcohol cartels? Are the mobs in charge of alcohol sales today? Why not? I'll tell you why not. Because there isn't enough money in it.
Just what is stopping this worse case scenario that you are fearing from happening NOW? How is the illegality of many of these drugs hampering the plans of the cartels?
Today it isn't safe to enter isolated areas of the Mendocino forest because it is rife with illegal pot gardens. Who is going to be growing pot in a national forest if it becomes legal to grow it in one's own yard?
If you bothered to look at my posting history you would see I am one of the strongest conservatives on this forum and am all for the 10th Amendment so I don’t need to put up with your amateur constitutional crap.
Your reference to California making billions on medical marijuana is irrelevant. When pot is legal there won’t be any medical marijuana, there will be only marijuana.
And your reference to California ignores it is a state that is f*cked up beyond all hope. A state indeed making profit off of drug sales in the name of medicine which any rational person knows is a crock.
We are at war with terrorist narco elements that will benefit from legalization because it will legitimize their operations:
You seem to think that legalization of pot will stop the war, it will not. It will bring it closer to everyone. In areas they control, the cartel bosses have effectively secured their own risk to a level of legalization so much so they do everything in the open. And yet they still murder brutally, leaving severed heads in public view and bombing public places. Now let that sink in. In areas where they have no risk they still murder brutally. They still run extortion rackets. They still rob and shake down passersby.
And when they get control of marijuana distribution they will bring in the meth, crack, heroin and any number of narcotics, hallucinogens and make profits with it.
The war with cartels will never stop until we get serious. We are not even half serious now.
Let me put it to you this way: you want to put crap into your body, put more crap into your head than is already there then you better not be working anywhere near where my car brakes are getting fixed, where my airplane is getting maintenance, where anything that affects my safety and my family’s safety is taking place.
And don’t bring your drugs anywhere near my kids or my family or else you will see what I do to you will make the cartel actions look like Sunday School Church service. Got it?
If you grow weed on your own, you're a criminal, but if you obtain a license from the state you can make over $100,000 a year.
Funny thing is the State is also the biggest bookie. Play poker at home, you can get busted, but you can put yourself in the poorhouse playing all their lotteries and scratch tickets.
Boy oh boy, I can hardly wait until Hollywood Casino opens up the table games...
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